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OFF-TOPIC Suze Orman. Genius or clown?

Z5 FILMS

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She seems like she knows what she's talking about. But when people ask her how they can get rich, all she talks about is stock market, savings, Rule of 72, etc.

I find her annoying and can't watch her. Just like Dr. Phil.

What's your opinion of her and her advice?
 

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J P D

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I read somewhere that she doesn't practice what she preaches. She manages her money different that how she advises everyone else to manage theirs. I don't know why that would be the case if she was truly giving people sound financial advice, but perhaps she is getting some kind of kick backs for promoting a certain banking/investment service. I wouldn't put it past anyone these days. I'll try and find the article and post a link. I also heard the same thing about Robert kiyosaki. I tend to find all those major seminar types with products to sell to be full of it.
 

camski

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I personally have trouble getting to her "message" just because something about her (style, voice, tone, I am not sure what) I find grating. As far as style goes I like Dave Ramsey. However I am not sure either one of them is in "get rich" arena, I think they both are more focused on the "get out of debt" arena.
 

6.0_bull

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She seems to be a very intelligent articulate individual with a lot of great practical advice for the average American with major credit card debt and living above there income.

Not sure how business savvy she is ….but defiantly some great advice…

My two cents worth
 

kcbizwoman

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My opinion can be taken with a grain of salt.

Suze Orman, David Bach and others like them do have a place for their advice.
Maybe not for those of us that are a part of fastlanetomillions. Suze and David
are more for the average overly indebted American/Canadian that are near or at
the end of their ropes to get them back onto a fiscally responsible path. Credit
has become so plentiful and easy to get and the average person has fallen into
it's trap at least once in their lifetime. The average person won't do what's necessary
to move up the financial ladder. They're content to stay where they are, they
want to be average. To answer your question "Genius or clown?" it depends who
you are. For most of us here her teachings/lectures/books won't help us get to
where we want to go. For anyone who wants to get back on solid ground after
going through a financial nightmare she will help them achieve that.

Regardless of what you think of Robert Kiyosaki, his books make sense. It's well
known that if you want to be rich you either have to inherit it, marry it or create
it i.e. build a business or investments. For most of us, we have to create it
usually a business whether a bricks and mortar business, a real estate business,
or an internet business. Some can create wealth paper trading in it's various forms.

KC
 

kimberland

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KC and other Cdns...

Pls do NOT use David Bach's advice when it comes to specific strategies.
I went to hear the man speak
and it was obvious that he had NO understanding of the Cdn retirement system
(I believe he thinks an RRSP is the same as a 401K).
Half his advice was outright wrong.

He may have "translated" his books into Cdn
but something was definitely lost in that translation.
 

kurtyordy

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You have to look at the question on two levels:

Advice: Genious or clown- not either, it is just common sense.

What she has created with her advice: genious
 

Diane Kennedy

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At the risk of doing a thread hijack with another topic.... First of all, I agree different people - different goals - different advice.

BUT under no circumstances, do I think anyone should ever teach victimization to their audience. "Oh, it's not your fault, it's those bad loan officers who never should have put you in that loan." BS!!! SO has really been jumping on that band wagon lately - railing against the loan companies and the loan officers.

I think that belief (it's someone else's fault) is the single biggest reason why people can't be rich and empowered. They kinof think they are victims inititially and they then have a guru tell them it's not their fault...so they get to go away feeling all justified that it's not their fault. They've been taught that they are victims (as validated by someone they look up to) so they have something to complain about when they hang out their buddies. They never get rich, but at least they have someone else to blame. (So, I guess it does depend on your goals after all.)

You MUST take responsibility for your actions, even if the lesson learned is "don't trust a salesman who is a little too slick" You're still the person who hired him. If you don't believe you have control over your life, actions and consequences, then you are just like the guys who numb themselves to the life they have...no point in trying to change, you have no control (they think).

I think most of the people on the forum know who I am and my history, so I'm not just namedropping when I say I have known both Robert Kiyosaki and David Bach for years. I haven't followed David so much publicly, but I know privately he's a big one on personal accountability and is highly ethical. Robert is the same - but I know he also preaches accountability BIG TIME in his seminars. And sometimes does it in way that's difficult to hear way.

I also know Suze (not personally, just from the seminar circuit) and I know she does NOT preach or believe in accountability to the same degree. In fact, lately, she seems to really be railing against the loan companies for bad loans with NO responsibility given to the people who signed and guaranteed the "liar loan" information (ie, the homeowner).

Hijack over...soap box put away for use another time...
 

andviv

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Moved thread to Off Topic Discussion.

I personally do not agree with what she preaches, or as Kimberland says, I am not her audience. I don't feel good bashing her either. Thank God for the remote control, so when I see her on a channel I just change it to something else, and problem solved.

Diane, very good input about this topic. In general "Do as I say, not as I Do" and "You are a poor victim, they abused you" are not policies I tend to agree with (unless I want to feel like the victim and have the perfect excuse for my incapability and lack of success, wink, wink).
 

MJ DeMarco

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Suzie Orman ... genius or clown?
How about a hypocrite?

Suzie Orman is a classic example of what is wrong with the financial gurus and I will flat out call her a hypocrite as well as David Bach.

How do you think Suzie Orman got rich? By her own advice? By her 401K? By investing in stocks? No. No. and No. Ms. Orman got rich writing books after she was a very successful stock broker. You see, its pretty easy to "Get Rich" when you're earning $100K/mo and have the ability to save most of it. However, these "gurus" go out and tell everyone to save 10% of their paycheck when they are earning $40K/year. They tell everyone to "Stock your 401Ks!" and "Cut Your Credit Cards Up!" ... Their advice is pure slowlane garbage that will become quite handy if you intend to "Be Smart And Die Rich" like one of Mr. Bach's book.


The hypocrisy is this: These people are "Getting Rich in the Fastlane by Selling the Slowlane".


I was told that David Bach was your typical middle class financial planner -- that is -- until he started selling books. Now he's loaded. Again, "Sell the Slowlane ... Get Rich in the Fastlane".

They're all hypocrites ... none of them practice what they preach. Their wealth is a product of the fastlane; not the slowlane concepts they preach.
 

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kurtyordy

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ok, putting aside the victim mentality which I disagree with as well, and overlooking the fact that her voice makes blood spurt from my ears, I do not consider her a hypocrit, unless she is telling them that they can be like her by following these steps.

Her audience by and large are unable to fastlane. She is not taking them to vast wealth, but to financial stability and a chance at being 'rich'. Billy bob with two teeth and 3 wifebeaters does not have the mental faculties to become fastlane.

If you check out the bono videos in my passion thread, at some point Bono referrences his gift is music that God gave him to do. I have a friend who wakes up in the morning and goes to work for a plumbing company. He is completely fulfilled, the puzzle piece has found its fit, this is his gift.

I guess a better way to sum it up is, if a person cannot manage their own life, i.e. working retail, living in mobil home, etc. I highly doubt they have the ability to manage any sort of fastlane project. However, they may be able to get to the point of being debt free, or retiring comfortably, or not having their mobile home reposessed.

MJ, I agree with your analysis of what technique they are using. However, there is a place for these gurus.
 

SteveO

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I agree with the fact that we are not the target audience.

Before deciding to move toward financial independence, all the goals that I could see were around being able to retire at some point. I used my 401K and purchased some stocks. Living within the income was difficult and required an occasional rebalancing.

The entire world changed at some point. None of that seemed relevant anymore. Once the wheels were in motion and passive income/net worth were being generated, the other items around financial security faded into the past.
 

J P D

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The article I read stated something similar to what PhxMJ posted. She tells people to invest a certain percent of their funds into a market or service to gain wealth and financial freedom but it turns out that she doesn't have any of her own money invested in them nor did she gain her wealth through any of her investment strategies, which is what she leads people to think and is the reason most people put faith in her word.

Does anyone else think she looks like she could be the love child of Tony Snow and Anne Coulter...LOL



 

Russ H

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Does anyone else think she looks like she could be the love child of Tony Snow and Anne Coulter...LOL
Nope. I just don't see it. :smx4:

-Russ H.
 

Russ H

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Well, OK, maybe . . .

.
 

WheelsRCool

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How about a hypocrite?

Suzie Orman is a classic example of what is wrong with the financial gurus and I will flat out call her a hypocrite as well as David Bach.

How do you think Suzie Orman got rich? By her own advice? By her 401K? By investing in stocks? No. No. and No. Ms. Orman got rich writing books after she was a very successful stock broker. You see, its pretty easy to "Get Rich" when you're earning $100K/mo and have the ability to save most of it. However, these "gurus" go out and tell everyone to save 10% of their paycheck when they are earning $40K/year. They tell everyone to "Stock your 401Ks!" and "Cut Your Credit Cards Up!" ... Their advice is pure slowlane garbage that will become quite handy if you intend to "Be Smart And Die Rich" like one of Mr. Bach's book.


The hypocrisy is this: These people are "Getting Rich in the Fastlane by Selling the Slowlane".

I was told that David Bach was your typical middle class financial planner -- that is -- until he started selling books. Now he's loaded. Again, "Sell the Slowlane ... Get Rich in the Fastlane".

They're all hypocrites ... none of them practice what they preach. Their wealth is a product of the fastlane; not the slowlane concepts they preach.
Not saying I disagree, but is it really bad to become wealthy by giving people middle-class financial advice to become financially secure? If that's the case, she's just providing a service, and becoming wealthy from it.

Now if she is telling people that the method to WEALTH is to "save, invest, etc..." meanwhile she is doing it the fastlane way, well that is different.

The thing is the majority of people out there aren't the types to start a business to become wealthy or whatnot, some don't even seem to want to, they just want financial security. If she is just telling people how to become financially secure and becoming wealthy from it, I think that's okay.

But as said above, if she's claiming wealth creation via those methods, that's wrong.

I don't know a whole lot about her, I always assumed she was one of those financial gurus who became wealthy by giving middle-class folk slowlane advice for financial security and getting out of debt, not on how to become wealthy.

I disagree very much with her blaming the loan companies and the like. People should take responsibility.
 

JScott

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Not saying I disagree, but is it really bad to become wealthy by giving people middle-class financial advice to become financially secure? If that's the case, she's just providing a service, and becoming wealthy from it.

Now if she is telling people that the method to WEALTH is to "save, invest, etc..." meanwhile she is doing it the fastlane way, well that is different.

The thing is the majority of people out there aren't the types to start a business to become wealthy or whatnot, some don't even seem to want to, they just want financial security. If she is just telling people how to become financially secure and becoming wealthy from it, I think that's okay.

I completely agree with this...

I remember when I was in college, and I signed up to play on an Intramural soccer team. All the other players used to play in high school, and I was probably the only one that hadn't ever played competitively. And I remember the team captain used to get us together several days a week to perform drill after drill after drill.

I quit the team and joined another team. On this other team, the team captain was just as good a soccer player as the first team captain, but he didn't push us so hard with the drills (most of the players weren't very good); we just spent a bunch of time playing and having fun. We didn't win any trophies (which sucked) but we had fun (which was ultimately my goal).

Should we conclude that the first team captain was better than the second? Or that the second was a fraud? Of course not. Both team captains knew their team's skill level, goals, and reasons for being there, and coached based on that.

Suze Orman is no different; she recognizes that most of the people out there don't have the drive, talent, or energy to become independently wealthy, but that they very much would like financial freedom. So, she strives to give them that.

In fact, Suze Orman has gotten rich because she recognizes the needs and desires of her customers, and she satisfies those needs very successfully.

If anything, we should congratulate that...as that's what being a good business-person is all about...
 

MJ DeMarco

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The above commentary, as much as I agree, doesn't change the fact that she has gotten rich in the fastlane prescribing the slowlane.

Here are two of Suzie's books:

1) 9 Steps to Financial Freedom
2) The Road to Wealth

Her books have an implied assumption of wealth ... that she knows the road and she can take you there. Yet, she doesn't practice what she preaches. She tells people about roads she's never traveled. Its hypocritical and just because her advice is solid from a middle-class investment perspective, doesn't change the hypocrisy.

If I invented a fat-burning pill and subsequently paraded myself all over the world, shirtless, ripped and toned, there is a certain implied warranty that I am a product of that fat-burning pill. If I sold millions of this magic fat-burning pill and people later discovered that I never used the pill and that my fast results were achieved thru liposuction (FASTLANE), AND that my pill really took 15-25 years to work (SLOWLANE), you can bet my customers would be a little upset, not to mention feeling a little bit deceived.

You should be a product and an example of what you are selling. Suzie Orman isn't and it would be nice if she made reference to it. "Hey folks, I don't practice what I preach! This is not how I got rich, this is how you can get rich!"

There is nothing wrong with slowlane and/or Suzie's teachings as the slowlane leads directly into a fastlane. Without the slowlane, nobody could invest in bigger and better things such as business and real estate.

It just would be nice if she came clean and told everyone she's had liposuction and isn't taking a magic pill. Now there's a novel idea that really might make someone "Forbes" rich instead of "Millionaire-Next-Door" rich. :idx:
 

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Rawr

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Overheard by me:

"Suze Orman advice? You would extract more knowledge if you took all her books, put them in a bag, and let someone beat you mercilessly with it"

Here is her show in a nutshell:

"You can't afford it"

Should I buy this house?
No!
Can I buy this car?
No!
Can I buy a watch?
No!
How about a $1 Jr Whopper?!
No!


Now don't get me wrong- she teaches some things. But to me it's like she is teaching people who are floating in the river of shit how to maneuver around the rocks - instead of how to get to the shore and build a hut.

I can't take her seriously with that extremely fake tan and murderous grin. but I do think her and Donny Deutsch would make an interesting couple.

People who can, stop listening and reading and go out and do. People who can't, are found by the tv set every day watching that show.
 

Runum

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It has been said that Suze speaks to a different crowd than us. Well, one of my tenants frequently speaks of Suze as he is signing over his rent check every month. He always asks me if I listen to her and what do I think about what she says. The tenant says he is considering buying a house and he's very worried about it. I'm thinking he's considering buying A house and I'm considering buying apartment buildings. I already own enough houses. Yep definitely a different crowd and different mindset for Suze's audience. :cheers:
 

JesseO

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Saw an informercial for some of her products late last night. From that I gather she is a Clown. At the very minimum her ideas (but not implementation) is slowlane.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Wow, what an old thread ... but rehashed with news.

Older article which highlights my bone of contention ...
Is Suze Orman out of touch? – MSN Money

Orman estimated her liquid net worth at about $25 million, with an additional $7 million worth of houses. With just $1 million of that in stocks, it means that just 4% of her liquid net worth is in the stock market.

What does Orman do with the rest of her money? Solomon asked, and was told: "Save it and build it in municipal bonds. I buy zero-coupon municipal bonds, and all the bonds I buy are triple-A-rated and insured so that even if the city goes under, I get my money. I take a little lower interest rate to make sure my bonds are 100% safe and sound.
Hmmm ... this is the Fastlane destination. Stockpile cash and let the bonds do the work.

In fact, Orman's portfolio is reminiscent of a story about Groucho Marx, the famous comedian who purportedly once toured the New York Stock Exchange and held court with the floor traders after the closing bell.

Knowing that Groucho was wealthy, one trader yelled out, "Hey Groucho, where do you invest your money?"

"I keep my money in Treasury bonds," is what the leader of the Marx brothers reportedly replied.

"They don't make you much money," a trader shouted back.

"They do," Groucho said drolly, "if you have enough of them."

Groucho always made me feel good and laugh, but I wouldn't want him as my financial adviser. Orman makes people feel good too, but that doesn't make her the right adviser for the bulk of her audience.

"The big problem with Suze Orman is that she appears to be a below-average financial planner," says Bob Veres, a leading commentator on the financial-planning world and author of the new novel "Song of the Universe," in which the protagonist is a financial adviser.

"She scores very high on the personality index, but very low on the knowledge and understanding of the complex issues that face a lot of her audience. She's giving generic, simple solutions to people's most difficult problems, and judging from her portfolio, she's taking them on a path she really hasn't traveled herself."
Suze Orman Sued For Fraud - Forbes.com
 

JScott

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But again, MJ, we are not her audience, and I've never heard her say that her advice is for everyone...for the most part, her audience is people who will very, very likely never even consider "fastlane" principles, even if they were to handed to them...

If Suze Orman were to write a book geared towards people like us, it would likely be a very different message, because our attitudes, goals, and abilities are different than her typical audience.

Here's an analogy:

If you and my mom were to both go to a race track for driving lessons, do you think the instructor would give both of you the same advice? Moreover, would you call the racing instructor a fraud because he gave my mother different advice than he actually followed himself?

I still give poker lessons now and again, and I'm certainly not going to give the same advice to the guy who plays professionally at the $100-200 No-Limit game at the Bellagio as I would the guy who is about to play in the $1-2 home-game and just wants to know how he can make his buy-in last as long as possible...they have different skill levels, goals, and probably different long-term aspirations, and to treat them the same is doing both of them a disservice.

I realize that you're probably thinking, "Everyone should be introduced to fastlane principles, because anyone can wealthy if they have the motivation and the education." Unfortunately, most people don't have the motivation, even if they have the education. So, why spend time educating them when they will never put the lessons into action anyway.

Just my $.02...
 

MJ DeMarco

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If Suze Orman were to write a book geared towards people like us, it would likely be a very different message, because our attitudes, goals, and abilities are different than her typical audience.
And that is my point -- that is the book she should be writing because it would be those principles that made her rich -- not what she espouses. "Suze Orman on how to make millions selling books and building a worldwide brand." <-- That's what I want to read!!

I still give poker lessons now and again, and I'm certainly not going to give the same advice to the guy who plays professionally at the $100-200 No-Limit game at the Bellagio as I would the guy who is about to play in the $1-2 home-game and just wants to know how he can make his buy-in last as long as possible...they have different skill levels, goals, and probably different long-term aspirations, and to treat them the same is doing both of them a disservice.
Sorry, but I don't see the logic. You'd be teaching both parties principles that made you a successful poker player. Yes, the advice would be different pertaining to each party, but your advice would be a product of your experience which made you successful in poker. You are a practitioner of your advice. You traveled the road. You've been there.

Suze's money advice is a not a product of what made her successful. Far from it. She is not a practitioner of her advice and hasn't traveled the road, therefore, I will continue to assert, is a fraud.

If she came clean and disclaimed: "BTW, these principles did not make me rich and I have no idea if they will work for you", then this would not be a topic of disgruntlement.

MPOV.
 

CarrieW

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Lmao at the tags for this thread lol.

I was thinking of posting then decided against it untill I read it lol.

Edit Tags Tags
suze orman fraud, suze orman hypocrite, suze orman sucks
 

JScott

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Suze's money advice is a not a product of what made her successful. Far from it. She is not a practitioner of her advice and hasn't traveled the road, therefore, I will continue to assert, is a fraud.
Okay, let me try one more analogy... :)

Imagine a chef who earned fame and fortune creating amazing fine dining experiences in some of the most renowned restaurants in the world. He writes a cookbook with basic recipes for people with no cooking experience who want to learn how to cook. But, of course, he doesn't teach them how to cook fine-dining like he does...he teaches them how to be *competent* cooks with skills that will allow them to eat nice meals for the rest of their lives -- which is all his readers are really looking for.

Is the chef a fraud because he is selling information that is contrary to how he earned his fame and fortune? Even if he doesn't have a big disclosure in the book that says, "I got rich and famous making elaborate meals, but am only teaching you how to make basic meals."

Is he doing a disservice to all his cookbook readers because they're not being given the same advice and skills that made him famous and world-renowned?

And most importantly, is his advice untrustworthy because he chooses not to follow the same cooking path that he is espouses in his cookbooks?

Suze Orman espouses the belief that if you work hard, save your money in a diversified manner, and don't spend recklessly, you'll live a comfortable life without having to worry about money in retirement. And, for most people, I think that's true, regardless of the recent short-term activity in the stock market. Is it true for everyone? Of course not.

But, that's just like "fastlane" principles -- not everyone will succeed with them, even if they follow all the rules and try really, really hard. Does that mean you're giving bad advice? Of course not...you're giving great advice, but even great advice isn't going to work for everyone in every situation.

Perhaps we just disagree on this topic (or more likely, we have points of view that are slightly askew). Perhaps we can at least agree that Suze Orman is likely doing what she believes is right/best thing for her followers, which is more than what most "gurus" care to do...

I'll drop it now... ;)
 

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The book "Young, fabulous and broke" was a stepping stone for me to get out of debt. She has a lot of good ideas for in that particular book. But I hear her now espousing that you should live off of 50% of your income. Hell I do that now with child support payments. Now I have to go 50% lower?


She is out of touch with reality again. Young Fabulous and broke, Is a good book for the average rat-racer but The rest of her stuff is garbage. It's a stepping stone to get out of the ditch and at least onto the shoulder of the road to get you ready to merge onto the highway.
 

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