Sure, let’s blame capitalism

[Longinus]

 

[Scot]

So this post came across my Facebook news feed today.



The post title was something to the effect of

“This is capitalism for you. Actual job posting...”

The comments section was full of people complaining about minimum wage, how they had jobs with low pay but high qualifications, etc.

The only thing I could think was, “ god, I hope they found the sicko who held a gun to their head and forced them to apply to this job”

Everyone saw this as an example of why capitalism was horrible.

But we all know the other side of this story, being entrepreneurs.

What actually happens is this employer won’t get qualified leads. They’ll either get applicants who are bad fits for this position or just need a paycheck while they look for another, better paying one.

The end result is the employee will put out bad quality work and produce less profit. In the end, the employer will suffer because they did not want to pay market value for qualified employees. They will either suffer on the P&L sheets or learn their lesson and increase salary offering.

That is how capitalism works. What the comments want is socialism, where you get paid whatever some agency seems fit, not based on merit or skill level.

I know this is common sense to us, but I had to vent to people who actually get this concept.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

OMG, just look at this from a mathematical perspective...

You've graduated from college with an optometry specialization. In doing so, you've spent 4 years of your life and approximately $150,000 for WHAT?

An extra $2 an hour more than minimum wage!
Does this sound like a good investment?

No, capitalism doesn't suck.

Your brain sucks at questioning authority and making economic decisions about your life.

But yea, everyone in the world from grandma to your guidance counselor said "Go to college!" and you did, without question, without pretense, and without foresight.

 

[JAJT]

Want to know what almost nobody wants to hear from you?

"Have you tried calling the places you've applied to and speaking to someone about the position?"

I've asked this to a bunch of folks and "resentment" is the best word to describe the response.

The mere idea that maybe they might have to speak to someone and do a little hunting and selling of themselves is insulting to them. "I don't want to work at any place that requires candidates to go that far out of their way to work for them" is one of the funnier answers I've heard. "I don't want to annoy them and ruin my chances" is another funny one.

You're jobless.
You're broke.
Pick up the F*cking phone.

I swear, everyone agrees with the statement "insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results" until it comes to job hunting. Then it becomes "I've applied everywhere and nobody is hiring me, I better find more places to apply to".

No F*cking wonder you ended up at a shit job.
Instead of looking for the needle in the haystack you went looking for the peanut in the shit pile.

 

[Scot]

Well I had experience and did not have a bachelors or associates (im a dropout) and I DID get a $25/hr job starting out...

I had a bachelors and was a veteran and I washes dishes at Red Lobster. But then I went to job fairs and got a job with Verizon. There I developed a skill, sales, and at my day job I make a really good living. It’s all about what you do to improve your own lives.

That’s why we’re all on this forum. We’re here to improve our lives, something most people don’t seem to actually want to do.

 

[socaldude]

Part of the problem is our stupid government.

Give an 18 year old who has no clue $100K in loans guaranteed by taxpayers cause he is supposedly being held back. Genius.

Way to hold him even more back cause now he has $100k in useless debt and no job.

If it was a free market, nobody would loan $100k to some kid to go to school and not even get a good paying job.

Or our education system who is in denial wants everyone to think that college is the prime path to success. Insane.

All of this denial reminds of how an alcoholic looks at you in the face and says "What are you talking about? I'm not an alcoholic. I can stop drinking whenever".

This wouldn't happen in a purely capitalistic environment.

If you walked up to private investor and asked for $100k to go to school he would say hell no. How is he gonna get his money back?

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I went to college so I can get an extra $2 more than minimum wage!?

[GALLERY=media, 93]Con by MJ DeMarco posted Dec 1, 2017 at 12:34 AM[/GALLERY]

 

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[CycleGuy]

The majority of people who are already poor/impoverished/unemployed/underemployed tend to believe they are special and deserve $25/hr or higher starting out. Especially people with non-stem bachelor's degrees. It doesn't work that way.

In 10 years, it won't be minimum wage we're fighting. It will be universal basic income...
People aren't advancing at the pace of tech and the cognitive abilities required to function as a successful member of society will continue to rise.

 

[The-J]

The problem isn't capitalism or entitlement.

It's the fact that people are taking positions like these in the first place.

Nobody would have the gall to post a posting like that if they didn't think they could get applicants.

As far as capitalism goes, it does not promise an equal distribution of wealth. Nor should it. Capitalism is the most honest form of economy there is. Communism is just one giant lie, told to the people to keep them in line. Lenin and Stalin ate caviar with Molotov while their subjects died.

No, there's a bigger force at play here than capitalism, and MJ hit it right on the head. It's the same lie that the communists told. "Do this and you'll have safe, secure employment!" The worst part about the lie is that it actually applies to a lot of people. Probably even the majority. But the minority is too big to ignore. That majority that DID get safe, secure employment... well it's not really all that safe or secure, it's just employment.

College became a must in the US because back in the 70s, politicians saw the death of American manufacturing and wanted to move to a more skilled and professional based economy. Skilled workers who filled specific niches, rather than workers that can be trained to work an assembly line. Tech, finance, and research. That's what the US saw as the future. It came true, but there's still the vast majority who don't work in those fields. College ain't do shit for them.

Capitalism is great because it tells the truth. It's honest. The free market is based on the FACT that people are buying things at x price and selling other things at y price. It's people that lie. Politicians, parents, teachers. Capitalism does nothing but reflect what's real.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This wouldn't happen in a purely capitalistic environment.

If you walked up to private investor and asked for $100k to go to school he would say hell no. How is he gonna get his money back?

Excellent point. In a free market system, it wouldn't happen because risk, demand, and economics would come into play.

But instead, we have millions of clueless kids signing their debt-to-death-warrant all because they're told to.

 

[Chromozone]

The people on this forum are the closest to reality. It really is amazing that MJ's managed to gather so many like minded people together here.

IMO, I think part of the problem is that the advice that parents used to give 50 years ago was sound advice. However, that same advice is still being spouted even though it is now defunct. We all know the advice; go to school, get a degree, land a job and work your way up the ladder. Also, save money for a rainy day and invest in a house.

It seems to me that older generations genuinely believed that this was the way to prosperity. The thinking was that "if it worked for me, then it'll work for you."

The problem is that a few decades ago people kept on making more and more money because the economy in general was improving due technological advancement - NOT as a result of working your way up the ladder. The baby boomers don't generally realise this - that's why they keep telling the younger generations to follow the Scripted path.

The more gullible people still believe in the myth of the Script and then go on to become resentful and angry when they realise their degree isn't going to land them a job.

But, NEITHER the older generation or the younger generation talk about creating value and therefore wealth. They're completely ignorant on the topic.

 

[Mr.Brandtastic]

"I don't want to annoy them and ruin my chances" is another funny one.

As if a place that would be that annoyed at a phone call of you wanting to work, that they wouldn't hire you, would even remotely be a good job to work at.

“This is capitalism for you. Actual job posting...”

Yea because jobs were so great and meaningful under communism apparently.



I never understand people's eagerness to be a better wage slave. I want communism! So what? So you can be a better authoritarian bootlicker and jail those who engage in wrongthink? Wow. What a great revolutionary you are!

 

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[biophase]

Don't dog walkers in Southern Cali make $75k/year?
(I keed, I keed)

I bet dog walkers can make $75k/yr. i think James Altucher laid out an entire biz plan on his podcast.

Basically walk dogs for $20-$30 a pop. Add poop cleaning services, offer to take to the vet and groomer. Offer to buy food and toys. Build customer list. Add dog sitting. Make $75k/yr

 

[biophase]

I think it falls under the "brick layer" issue many discuss on this forum. You can be a dynamite dog walker but it's difficult(not impossible though) to turn it into a fastlane business. The element of scaling is very tough in that type of business. The barrier to entry is low, which creates tons of competition.

TBH I said the 75k/yr dog walker as a joke in reference to SoCal's high cost of living driving up the prices of basic services.

The thing about dog walking or dog sitting is that it is a very customer loyal business. Once i find a good dog sitter or walker, there’s no reason to change, even if price moves up a little. Once the trust is built it is very easy to upsell little tasks like poo cleaning and monthly dog shopping.

$75k is only $1500 a week. This is how I’d structure it.

10 clients
5 walks a week, $125
1 backyard poop clean $25/week
$1500/wk
10 hours a day $75k/yr

Adjust based on work load. Add extras.

Offer a 3x a week for $95
Dogsitting when out of town. 2x visits a day for $50, feed, water, include 1 walk.
Take to groomer or vet $20-$40

 

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[CycleGuy]

OMG, just look at this from a mathematical perspective...

You've graduated from college with an optometry specialization. In doing so, you've spent 4 years of your life and approximately $150,000 for WHAT?

An extra $2 an hour more than minimum wage!
Does this sound like a good investment?

No, capitalism doesn't suck.

Your brain sucks at questioning authority and making economic decisions about your life.

But yea, everyone in the world from grandma to your guidance counselor said "Go to college!" and you did, without question, without pretense, and without foresight.

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

Optometry techs are gonna get replaced by machines anyway...

 

[CycleGuy]

Interesting comment. I was just thinking the other day about how members of my family are so much worse off than they were 20 years ago when I was a teenager.

Maybe it's just how I remember things being back then, but it seems there are so many people that I know that just haven't done what it takes to just survive, let alone thrive in society.

It's like they're all in a big bubble waiting to burst. They're one economic crisis away from being out on the street. And it's all because they went through life like it was just about being biologically alive, and nothing more.

It's happening as we speak. While tech is helping our economies grow and most of us on this forum are benefiting from it, the lower functioning portion of society continues to struggle.

Your observation of your family is correct. I've noticed a similar pattern in my family. Some members of my extended family are the types of people I truly despise. Using every type of handout and assistance available instead of working hard and bettering their situation.

The thing is, none of them are "African Poor". They all have phones/tvs/housing/cars. I think that's what the future points towards. A large section of the population with low cognitive abilities, who never thrive in society, but have all of their basic needs provided for them.

It's sad and against everything I believe in, but I think it's going to happen.

 

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[PedroG]

People aren't advancing at the pace of tech and the cognitive abilities required to function as a successful member of society will continue to rise.

Interesting comment. I was just thinking the other day about how members of my family are so much worse off than they were 20 years ago when I was a teenager.

Maybe it's just how I remember things being back then, but it seems there are so many people that I know that just haven't done what it takes to just survive, let alone thrive in society.

It's like they're all in a big bubble waiting to burst. They're one economic crisis away from being out on the street. And it's all because they went through life like it was just about being biologically alive, and nothing more.

 

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[C-Jay]

The majority of people who are already poor/impoverished/unemployed/underemployed tend to believe they are special and deserve $25/hr or higher starting out. Especially people with non-stem bachelor's degrees. It doesn't work that way.

In 10 years, it won't be minimum wage we're fighting. It will be universal basic income...
People aren't advancing at the pace of tech and the cognitive abilities required to function as a successful member of society will continue to rise.

Exactly. This all relates back to the script. The advice kids receive to "do what you love and everything will work out". That then gets twisted into "do what's easy". The thing about STEM is that it's F*cking hard. No surprise that the highest paying jobs are in those fields. I can't count how many friends/acquaintances I have, or fellow students in university, who got their degree in liberal arts, English, sociology, or (insert 90% of useless degrees here) and to this day, years later, work unskilled labour, server, or retail jobs making the minimum wage or slightly higher. No disrespect meant to that portion of the workforce.

Intense disrespect to the ones that then have the audacity to complain about it and how it isn't their vault that they've topped out. They blame the job market. They blame the job-stealing immigrants. They blame the boomers. They blame their boss. Their coworkers. Everything and everyone gets blamed.

My degree was fairly useless too, but I've done just fine in spite of it. And the only person who receives any blame for that is this guy.

I'm in Canada, and the job market here isn't that bad. When I hear people complain about, say, the housing market? Okay, yeah I'll grant them that. It's absurd, and even responsible slowlaners earning respectable wages are being priced out of major cities (try living in Manhattan on 100k; that's Toronto with 80k). But complaining about your job? Give me a break. There are well-paying jobs for everyone willing to learn the required skills to get them. If you refuse to divorce your connection with the useless bachelor's degree you got...well, that's your problem.

edit: the reason I mention the housing market is because my grandparents, on unskilled labour salaries (before my grandfather started a business), were able to comfortably afford buying a house. In fairness to unskilled wannabe homeowners today, that's simply impossible in the majority of medium+ cost of living cities, and that fact is a larger economical issue.

 

[LeoistheSun]

The things that got me my job when the requirement was a bachelors was:

- Being sociable (I heard stories about the other candidates I was competing with. Most were highly introverted)
- Sending handwritten thank you letters to everyone in the interview and even not (like the head boss)
- Follow up calls 1x a week
- Knowing someone who knew the IT guy doing the hiring

Im pretty sure that a bachelors has nothing to do with it. Bachelors just signifies you go for what you want (more than people who dont have it), you've got good work ethic and some other qualities.

 

[Thoelt53]

of course there was poverty, u wanna drive a Lamborghini down Nazi Bombed Stalingrad Lane?
the whole country was a wreck, millions upon millions dead, not very fair to compare that to "well developed western european nations"
I honestly think the way USSR bounced back after WW2 to be worthy of praise, going from a literal wasteland to putting the first human in space. I mean that's goddamn incredible!

as far as killed by the state, no worse than the CIA i say.

Read up fam: 20th Century Democide

And as for your previous post about the USSR being “socialist right,” it’s all bullshit. In the bitter end there is only collectivism and individualism. Collectivism is responsible for tremendous bloodshed. SIX TIMES more so than all wars fought, both foreign and civil, in the entire world, during the 20th century.

It’s no secret that the US has killed hundreds of thousands of people during war. That number, however, is dwarfed by the 61 MILLION people slaughtered by the USSR alone.

Democide is horrifying and most people are completely unaware of it.

 

[socaldude]

You see, someone with a capitalistic mind would ask: How can we fix this problem, is there another way of doing things.

Here capitalism would actually save us. New solutions would come in to fix the education bubble. Prices would drop because innovation steps in.

"Learn how to code for only $9.99 a month with tons of 5 star reviews and reccomendations!" type of businesses would pop up. Instead of spending $100k to learn outdated stuff in college.

So here capitalism and free markets is actually inhibited because of government, accreditation, endowments, education bubbles etc.

So I don't know what people are blaming cause whatever it is, it can't be capitalism.

We would be way more ahead of all this BS if we were in a free market.
Just something to think about.

 

[Scot]

Well... this got interesting.

@luniac please buy literally any WWII history book.

And let’s just end this pissing match. Not really the point of this thread.

 

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[LeoistheSun]

The majority of people who are already poor/impoverished/unemployed/underemployed tend to believe they are special and deserve $25/hr or higher starting out. Especially people with non-stem bachelor's degrees. It doesn't work that way.

In 10 years, it won't be minimum wage we're fighting. It will be universal basic income...
People aren't advancing at the pace of tech and the cognitive abilities required to function as a successful member of society will continue to rise.

Well I had experience and did not have a bachelors or associates (im a dropout) and I DID get a $25/hr job starting out...

 

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[mike24601]

I work in a unionized job that doesn't require very much skill and where all employees in the work group are equal in qualifications. Assuming enough caloric intake and you don't do anything get fired, you can progress to a very high pay rate in a relatively short period of time. As a result, I work with a lot of petty, uneducated goobers that get paid 4x what I make for the same job and have a complex because of it, even though the guy/gal starting on day 1 has no less skill or actual value than the most senior employee. Makes me want to puke

 

[inputchip]

Just going to leave this here.

 

[Azure]

first provide me legitimate source of USSR slaughtering 61 MILLION and Stalin TENS OF MILLIONS.

otherwise we can agree to disagree.

Okay, lets go with the "official" USSR count of 800 000 executions, 1.7 million deaths in Gulag camps, and 7 million dead from the 1932 famine directly caused by poor economic policy.

Show me anything comparable in a Western, capitalistic democracy in the 20th century.

 

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[CycleGuy]

The USSR was the result of revolution, of course there will be casualties. Those economic policies allowed Soviet economy to eventually withstand and defeat the nazis.
Don't know bout the accuracy of those numbers either. my gut tells me there's decades of propaganda and "red scare" MacArthur tactics floating around.



lol ok buddy...

Umm the soviets defeated the Nazis with winter and pure manpower... The "soviet economy" had no role in defeating the Nazis as you just stated.

Already in December 1941, Japan's entry into the war, and its consequent preoccupation with campaigns in the Pacific, allowed Stalin to move large quantities of men and equipment to the west, where they brought the German advance to a halt before Moscow. Unprepared for a winter war, poorly clad, and exhausted from months of rapid advance and bitter fighting, the German forces had to abandon the idea of taking the Russian capital. A whole string of generals succumbed to heart attacks or nervous exhaustion, and were replaced; Hitler himself took over as commander-in-chief of the army.

Why Hitler's grand plan during the second world war collapsed


MY MIND IS LITERALLY NUKED THAT SOMEONE ON AN ENTREPRENEUR FORUM WOULD DEFEND USSR COMMUNISTS IN ANYWAY

 

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[socaldude]

I think part of the problem is that we don't teach personal responsibility in our education system.

Namely in that we have an education system that wants to think for you instead of how to think for yourself independent of outside influence.

During K-12 they basically say: Nope you don't know what you are talking about, college is the way to success. It's worth the enormous cost cause you are gonna make millions after you get a good job. #SMH

Isn't "education" suppose to teach people how to make intelligent decisions?
-And yet we have millions of 18 year olds who think borrowing 6 figures to learn something they could of read on wikipedia is smart.

Isn't "education" suppose to teach independent thinking?

I find it funny that our own education system is so resistant to its own thinking. Isn't questioning your own thinking a sign of advanced thought? Academia apparently doesn't think so.

 

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[Longinus]

Men were sent on the battlefield without a gun because they simply didn't have enough.

prove this, how many men, what years of the war? where?

The russians must have body slammed the nazis to death, tanks included.

Go read a book about Operation Barbarossa instead of talking shit on a forum and asking proof to anyone who proves you wrong.

 

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