The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

NOTABLE! Successful Slowlaner Rebukes Fastlane (My Response...)

Accelerate wealth. Build a business that pays freedom. Join more than 70,000 entrepreneurs and register for the Fastlane Entrepreneur forum. Remove ads? Join the INSIDERS.

Jonathan C

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Apr 3, 2017
42
60
117
31
United States
This is possible...

if you go without health insurance...
if you go Zuckerburg on your wardrobe, 1 T-shirt all 7 days...
if you rent a 240 square foot house and ration toilet flushes to save water...
if you never go out to eat...
if you dumpster dive for your food behind the Safeway...
if you cancel the cable tv (and anything else pleasurable)...

Then you can have the luxury of calling yourself a millionaire after 20 years just so you can spend the rest of your life living the exact same god-forsaken way. (But there is hope, maybe I can use Fastlane metrics and sell this insanity to a bunch of unsuspecting fools so I can actually have a life!)

I see what you are saying.

Personally, I don't think I have the same degree of antipathy towards building wealth through index funds that you and other members here seem to have. Perhaps that is because I'm younger and still able to somewhat take advantage of that game.

Nonetheless, I still see the wisdom in what you are saying. Stocks grow, after all, because of the people who innovate, invent, and add value to society. For example, Apple's stock only grows because Apple invents newer and better gadgets. If everyone just mindlessly threw their money into an index fund, then society's growth would be impeded. We need to get out there and do more than just throw our money into an index fund and say "its good".

To that end, I feel like I agree with you most regarding what I believe to be one of your core teachings: namely that people need to get off their butts, spend less time loafing, and more time trying to add value to both their lives and society as a whole. Easier said that done, I know, but we've got to try.
 

jlwilliams

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Dec 14, 2014
272
529
255
50
Where he is right is that employees can and should save more money than they do. He's right to sing the praises of socking money away. Most "9 to 5ers" piss it away as fast as the make it. Sometimes faster. Where he is wrong is in his criticism of entrepreneurship which he clearly doesn't know much about.

This is a pattern you see in lots of areas. When people tell you what is good about what they know, they articulate good points. When they tell you all that is wrong with "the other" they are full of crap. They are talking about what they don't know.

If someone who doesn't have the entrepreneur mind set and can't stomach the idea of starting a business, they need to save. They need to listen to that guy because he has saved a good chunk as an employee. If you are like most of us here on a forum by and for entrepreneurs, well then MJ has done that so listen to him about that.

There is a terrifying and puzzling "fact" that I've heard a few times over the past couple years. It might even be true, and I wish I could recall the exact figure. Supposedly something like 60% of US households don't even have a thousand dollars in cash that they could access in an emergency. If true, that is a frightening testimony to the power of the lure of credit card debt and instant gratification. People's money just blows away in the wind. Hearing that makes me hesitant to be harsh on the slow lane gurus who try to get these people to hang on to just a little bit of what they make. Seriously, it's advice they need to hear before they buy another pack of smokes and play keno while they wait for their turn at the tattoo parlor.
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
10,934
2,416
Personally, I don't think I have the same degree of antipathy towards building wealth through index funds that you and other members here seem to have. Perhaps that is because I'm younger and still able to somewhat take advantage of that game.

Or...

You're deluded into thinking that:

1) Putting money into index funds will build wealth if given enough time.
How many black swan events will there be in the next 50 years? Inflation? Actual rate of return minus those things?

2) That you have that time to give.
Do you? Will you be alive 50 years from now? (I mean ALIVE, not just "not-dead")

One of my uncles died at age 50. He was a die-hard Vanguard investor. Do you think he would of put his money into index funds and ETF's if he knew he'd die young?

Would you?
 

G-Man

Cantankerous Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2014
1,989
10,658
2,436
Personally, I don't think I have the same degree of antipathy towards building wealth through index funds that you and other members here seem to have. Perhaps that is because I'm younger and still able to somewhat take advantage of that game.

I started young. Sometime after my 30th b-day, I cracked 100k in net worth with no debt and a high 5 figure job. I'm a Ramsey poster child. Here's the problem: Despite being way ahead of 90% of the population, it took me 5 years to put that away, so... to get to a million, it would take me another 45 years at that rate. So I'm now 75, and here's the other conditions that would have to have been met:
  • Wife doesn't leave me and take all my shit.
  • I don't get hit by a bus.
  • I don't have a child with medical problems
  • I don't have medical problems
  • I don't get laid off replaced by someone in India or AI.
  • Market doesn't crash once in 50 years.
And, even If I defy all those odds for nearly half a century, my payoff is that I'm an old-a$$ man with a million bucks that's now worth about 500k thanks to inflation.

It's not antipathy toward index funds or Wall St. It's shitty arithmetic.

Don't wait till you're 31 and have a wife and baby to realize bad math for what it is.
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
32,484
123,679
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ
  • Wife doesn't leave me and take all my shit.
  • I don't get hit by a bus.
  • I don't have a child with medical problems
  • I don't have medical problems
  • I don't get laid off replaced by someone in India or AI.
  • Market doesn't crash once in 50 years.

It's shitty arithmetic.

Actuarial science actually.

Actuarial science - Wikipedia

If an actuary did the #'s on the Wall Street fairy tale, my guess is the world would be in a for a big surprise. Your odds aren't much better than the lottery, and they ain't better going it alone with your own self-directed and scalable business.
 

G-Man

Cantankerous Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2014
1,989
10,658
2,436
Actuarial science actually.

Actuarial science - Wikipedia

If an actuary did the #'s on the Wall Street fairy tale, my guess is the world would be in a for a big surprise. Your odds aren't much better than the lottery, and they ain't better going it alone with your own self-directed and scalable business.

I just got to the part in UnScripted that mentions expected future value. It's so ironic. I was a finance major, and we learned all kinds of way to make decisions based on weighted average net present value. What's ironic is never once did a professor say "Let's sit down and calculate the weighted average net present value of this finance degree you're paying for" or "Class, how about we calculate the weighted average net present value of that job at Bear Stearns you're so excited about".

:frown:
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
32,484
123,679
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ

#nowhere

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 29, 2016
192
288
176
Germany
Actuarial science actually.

Actuarial science - Wikipedia

If an actuary did the #'s on the Wall Street fairy tale, my guess is the world would be in a for a big surprise. Your odds aren't much better than the lottery, and they ain't better going it alone with your own self-directed and scalable business.

Thanks @all for the interesting topic and discussion here. It is very illuminating to read.

I have a question on the bold written part. Do you mean that the odds aren't better if you only got a business?
Do you mean that you need both worlds (Wall St. and businesses)?

Btw: can't wait to read unscripted . Got it preordered the other day :smile2:
 

Owner2Millions

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Feb 21, 2017
144
143
83
Chicago
I definitely enjoyed reading the comments about this thread. I also plan on getting unscripted , MJ you are definitely a lot of people's mentor on here without even knowing it. You have changed a lot of peoples insight on what it means to really being successful but happy. Thanks @MJ DeMarco
 

Jonathan C

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Apr 3, 2017
42
60
117
31
United States
Or...

You're deluded into thinking that:

1) Putting money into index funds will build wealth if given enough time.
How many black swan events will there be in the next 50 years? Inflation? Actual rate of return minus those things?

2) That you have that time to give.
Do you? Will you be alive 50 years from now? (I mean ALIVE, not just "not-dead")

One of my uncles died at age 50. He was a die-hard Vanguard investor. Do you think he would of put his money into index funds and ETF's if he knew he'd die young?

Would you?

Yes, I understand. Thank you for your response. Much to learn.
 

Mattie

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 28, 2014
3,230
4,201
1,036
50
Netherlands
Here's the article.

I became a millionaire in my 30s, and here's the best advice I can give you about investing

Rut Roh!

Folks, it's time to sell your business! Give up! Stop what you're doing! Give everything to Wall Street!

So here's my rebuttal...


-------------------------------------

Hmmm, where do I start?

How about... congratulations?!

Yup, a big fat congratulations because you know what?

You've accomplished something extraordinary.

In fact, it's something so extraordinary and rarely accomplished that it deserves special attention and reporting in the New York Times, on the front page of Yahoo (where I found the article) and in Business Insider's vast treasure trove of financial nonsense featuring Wall Street dependence and rip-your-hair out frugality.

Yup, your story is so uncommonly remarkable (and ridiculously improbable) that it warrants the mainstream media's attention.

Any that's the entire point of the Fastlane and the investment dogma that it attacks.

However, you know what story WILL NOT be featured in the New York Times?

My story.

I became a multi-millionaire in my early thirties. And I did it BEFORE "cashing out". I didn't rely on Wall Street. I didn't rely on experiential starvation or mind-numbing frugality. I didn't deprive myself of experiences, toys, or whatever else I found inspiriting. And I certainly didn't obsess over money, so much so that I named myself "Money MJ" or "Dollar DeMarco".

You see I just didn't become a multi-millionaire in my thirties -- I RETIRED.

That means I never have to work another day in my life, ever again. I don't need to peek at the S&P500 index every day. Stock market up? Down? I don't give a shit. I don't need to fondly spy a steakhouse, an exotic car, and or a cabin in the woods and persuade myself, "Meh, I don't want OR need that... right??????" I don't need to worry that the economy could go into the shitter. I don't need to lose sleep over inflation and the fact that our government is printing trillions annually. I don't need to hold up the checkout line at the grocery store because I have 22 coupons.

You see, I don't need to do anything.

But again, my story-- no matter how remarkably free and awesome it is-- won't be spotlighted in the New York Times.

My story won't make it to the pages of Business Insider.


And my friend who travels the world six months out of the year, owns a free-and-clear house with a fancy Audi R8 parked in the garage, and by no account, starves himself of nothing?

Just like my story, his story won't be told either. And neither will the dozens, perhaps hundreds of other millionaire-in-the-making stories that hide behind the pages of this forum.

Their stories go UNTOLD.

Ya know why?

Because these stories are NOT extraordinary in the world of entrepreneurship. They are NOT unusual. They are NOT so unbelievably uncommon that they deserve air time on the news, in newspapers, and in any racket worshiping the narrative that financial success must go through Wall Street's slimy hands and the corporations it serves.

Your story, however, IS remarkably uncommon.

And you should be proud.

In other words, it's about as likely as Kanye West winning a CMA award.

You see, the Fastlane is not about "cashing out" as your strawman argument implies. It's about creating a business entity that takes advantage of controllable unlimited leverage so you can earn five or six figures monthly and become a millionaire in a few short years WITHOUT depending on Wall Street, a fragile economy, and a money-printing government. It's about NOT surrendering your entire financial future into the unpredictable and unreliable markets, obsessing over money, saving $2 on shampoo, and whatever else the "settle for less" investment plan requires. Cashing out? That's called "f*ck you" money and the big "f*ck you" is directed at Wall Street.

While the Fastlane certainly isn't immune to it's own survivor biases, your story is suffocating from it, as evidenced by it's national newsworthiness.

And yet, this is the plan the common man should be rejoicing over?

Perhaps we should throw some actuarial science behind the financial plan of hope-and-pray.

  • The odds of the stock marketing returning 10% a year and not crashing over 50 years?
    10%? (Odd, your analysis excluded the 40% decline of 2007/2008??)
  • The odds that you're alive after 50 years?
    50%?
  • The odds that you have a job for 50 straight years, actually being able to save 966.00 month?
    5%?
  • The odds inflation doesn't hyper-inflate your savings during those 50 years?
    70%? (Because ya know, the government is such a good steward of our currency!)
  • The odds you start in your early twenties?
    5%?
I could throw in a few other variables in there relating to a national debt of $20 trillion and a few other things OUTSIDE of your control, but why bother.

What we get is (10% X 50% X 5% 70% X 5%) = .0000875%, or in other words, .00875% -- the probability of someone actually repeating your success story. Of course, I know these variables are debatable (and the example isn't truly actuarial) but that's not the point. My point is the entire plan is an improbable gamble based on a bunch of variables you will NEVER control. Theory is one thing, practice is another.

In effect, the word "millionaire" means nothing if it isn't allowing you unrestrained freedom from Wall Street's servitude system. The people here do NOT aspire to be Wall Street millionaires, they aspire to be free from the dogmatic tenets of culture and society-- the very such tenets that are espoused ubiquitously on Business Insider and Yahoo Finance.

Unfortunately the truth is that Slowlane dogma remains no better than buying a lottery ticket for anyone older than 35. And if you miss buying that ticket in your 20's, forget it.

Game over.

Life does not wait. Experiences do not wait. Time does not wait.

Of course, none of this is to impugn your incredible accomplishment, an accomplishment that no doubt requires an outstanding disciplined effort faithfully executed throughout the decades -- and that commitment deserves its respect and its props-- a commitment which is respectably and honorably no doubt... "Fastlane".

- MJ
I'm wondering how this guys investments are working out for him in 2020 and 2021. As you stated, you are retired and go a different route, and he was quite confident at the time Investments were the way, the truth, and the light.

Wish we knew in 2021 where he stands on the subject.
 

OleksiyRybakov

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Aug 25, 2021
68
51
48
Germany
Thank you MJ, the story of that guy seems impressive. I am also interested in developing a Midlane approach in order to make the get-rich-quickly scenario more accessible for let's say 10% instead of just 1% of the people. But what this guy is talking about is not the Midlane but the absolute Slowlane.

If someone of you wants to be entertained by similar stories, I recommend you to watch financial "advice" on Instagram, YouTube and especially TikTok.
 

Sponsored Offers

MARKETPLACE Fox Web School "Legend" Group Coaching Program 2021
Hi - I sent out some emails with the updates but I'll PM you now also, thanks. The issue is...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE NEW: The Best School for Going Fastlane (Now open for summer enrollment)
Read the free book, some excellent insights. I also did the website quiz and I did a visual on a...
MARKETPLACE Not sure how to start? This free book will teach you how to build a successful web design business
Hi Fox. Starting the book and got through the introduction. Had a conversation with Andy Black...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Chris is super sharp and is aware of many facets of entrepreneurship and can help get your...
Introducing MJ's Personal Unscripted Network, Join Now for FREE!
Any chance to make it available outside of US? It has been available outside of the US on...

Forum Sponsor

Learn Fastlane Business Skills & Get Profitable Within 30 Days...

Get Started Now

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom