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StoryBrand. 10k for this certification?

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Primeperiwinkle

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Has anyone bought this? To become a StoryBrand Certified Guide takes 4 days of intensive seminars for the grand sum of ten thousand dollars.

Now, I understand the importance of clarifying your idea and I get that most ppl have no idea how to communicate their message but.. 10k???

This company has clearly positioned itself to marketers. That in and of itself is genius. But.. 10k???

Seriously???

I kinda want to just tell those ppl to join this forum..

Do you have difficulty explaining what your product accomplishes? Can you communicate well? Where do you practice telling your story? Here. You practice here.

Don’t worry, I’ll happily correct your grammar for free.
 

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Vitaly the Winne

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I once signed up for a $1K Amazon FBA seminar, and the upsell was to a $20K, done for you automated system. After attending the first day of the three day event I learned about FBA, and realized days 2 and 3 were high pressure sales tactics to convince the attendees that it was worth it and to increase their credit card limits and open additional new accounts to fund this project, exactly how @MJ DeMarco described it in Unscripted. Success is process oriented, and if it costs an arm and a leg make sure the system is actually taught by people who have done the process instead of getting rich from their fastlane system by selling an apparent process, these high cost upselling oriented seminars are the modern day PT Barnum circus, with the presentation and the lights distracting the attendees from the sleight of hand as they unscrupulously convince you to hand over your money.
 

Andy Black

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Funny that... I’m literally at the airport listening to a storybrand podcast. I bought the book but haven’t been through it (they kinda lost me in the first few pages). They’ve built a system, process, language. I’m sure it helps, but I personally don't think the story is as important as they make out. Sure for some businesses, but not for all. They do focus on clarity, and I think that *is* important.

$10k may or may not be a lot depending on what you get out of it. I think they have about 400 certified guides. It seems a bit like buying a franchise - you buy training in their methodology and get work through them.
 

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Over-priced bs.

Couldn't you learn the same information some other way?
 

ZF Lee

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Over-priced bs.

Couldn't you learn the same information some other way?
You could buy their story brand book for a lot more cheaper. I found it though for free from a library.

Explains the fundamentals about their framework of storytelling.
 

dru-man

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I'm a copywriter and just read the book recently. I'd heard it mentioned a lot and had been wanting to have a look anyhow, then a client was sold on their methodology and absolutely wanted their page written in storybrand style, so I dug in.

I honestly thought there was nothing new there - they just took copywriting tactics other people use too and put it within their own framework. I don't think the page was that different than what I would have written already, other than a few tweaks here and there. Just branded terminology, mixed it with concepts from "The Hero's Journey" that is so often used to write screenplays and books (much of which seemed a bit of a stretch).

Smart marketing for their own sake but nothing revolutionary as far as the copy stuff goes. And a lot of the examples I saw used were nothing like what I think of as a "story" either, so it's probably not what you think.

In my opinion they teach you to write much too sparsely as well. That can work with cheaper purchases, a brand that is very well-known and respected, or with tech-entrenched markets accustomed to online purchasing...but I'd say it's still better to have more fleshed-out copy if you're selling higher-end products that require more forethought.

The more expensive and important a decision, the more it falls to the rational brain as well as the buying emotions. I wrote my client their storybrand page, but given that it was a $3500 product we were selling, I made it much more copy-heavy than Storybrand would instruct. They say they've done their testing in this regard, but I know a lot of tests still show word heavy copy smashing short copy for certain types of offers, so I don't think it's the closed argument they present it as.

Anyhow, I don't think $10K would be worth it. I have no problem investing in learning but no way I'd pay them that much for this info. Unless the course is a whole other level, it just wasn't that groundbreaking compared to what you can get in a copywriting book or two.

On the other hand, that also depends on if it's going to get clients in your door....I do think there is a demand for Storybrand-specific copywriters. So if they let you lean on their brand AND offer resources that actually keep a steady stream of clients coming in the door, on an ongoing basis, could be worth it I suppose.

Then again, there are other ways to get clients.
 
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Rawr

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Its not for you if you dont have 10k marketing budget, its for big co's.


I listened to his audiobook when we were launching a product . It did help clarify the target demo, the idea of asking people 'does this make sense' when you tell them your 1-2 line mission statement is good, there are some great nuggets actually in that book.
 

Andy Black

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Its not for you if you dont have 10k marketing budget, its for big co's.


I listened to his audiobook when we were launching a product . It did help clarify the target demo, the idea of asking people 'does this make sense' when you tell them your 1-2 line mission statement is good, there are some great nuggets actually in that book.
Ahh. I didn’t know it was on audible. I’ll get it there. I’m not in the reading mood. Thanks.
 

Rawr

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Ahh. I didn’t know it was on audible. I’ll get it there. I’m not in the reading mood. Thanks.
dont skip stuff, he has a lot of good little nuggets once you get into it. Its also quick, 2-3 days.
 

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Primeperiwinkle

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Over-priced bs.

Couldn't you learn the same information some other way?

I would hope so!!
You could buy their story brand book for a lot more cheaper. I found it though for free from a library.

Explains the fundamentals about their framework of storytelling.
I was gonna buy it today if anybody recommended it.
I'm a copywriter and just read the book recently. I'd heard it mentioned a lot and had been wanting to have a look anyhow, then a client was sold on their methodology and absolutely wanted their page written in storybrand style, so I dug in.

I honestly thought there was nothing new there - they just took copywriting tactics other people use too and put it within their own framework. I don't think the page was that different than what I would have written already, other than a few tweaks here and there. Just branded terminology, mixed it with concepts from "The Hero's Journey" that is so often used to write screenplays and books (much of which seemed a bit of a stretch).

Smart marketing for their own sake but nothing revolutionary as far as the copy stuff goes. And a lot of the examples I saw used were nothing like what I think of as a "story" either, so it's probably not what you think.

In my opinion they teach you to write much too sparsely as well. That can work with cheaper purchases, a brand that is very well-known and respected, or with tech-entrenched markets accustomed to online purchasing...but I'd say it's still better to have more fleshed-out copy if you're selling higher-end products that require more forethought.

The more expensive and important a decision, the more it falls to the rational brain as well as the buying emotions. I wrote my client their storybrand page, but given that it was a $3500 product we were selling, I made it much more copy-heavy than Storybrand would instruct. They say they've done their testing in this regard, but I know a lot of tests still show word heavy copy smashing short copy for certain types of offers, so I don't think it's the closed argument they present it as.

Anyhow, I don't think $10K would be worth it. I have no problem investing in learning but no way I'd pay them that much for this info. Unless the course is a whole other level, it just wasn't that groundbreaking compared to what you can get in a copywriting book or two.

On the other hand, that also depends on if it's going to get clients in your door....I do think there is a demand for Storybrand-specific copywriters. So if they let you lean on their brand AND offer resources that actually keep a steady stream of clients coming in the door, on an ongoing basis, could be worth it I suppose.

Then again, there are other ways to get clients.
Thank you.

Its not for you if you dont have 10k marketing budget, its for big co's.


I listened to his audiobook when we were launching a product . It did help clarify the target demo, the idea of asking people 'does this make sense' when you tell them your 1-2 line mission statement is good, there are some great nuggets actually in that book.

I’ll read the book.
 

Digamma

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I honestly thought there was nothing new there - they just took copywriting tactics other people use too and put it within their own framework. I don't think the page was that different than what I would have written already, other than a few tweaks here and there. Just branded terminology, mixed it with concepts from "The Hero's Journey" that is so often used to write screenplays and books (much of which seemed a bit of a stretch).
Exactly. It's just copywriting basics repackaged to take advantage of a shift in the sophistication of the market.
In fact, as a copywriter, you can take more lessons from their positioning than from their "method".
 

ChrisV

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Funny that... I’m literally at the airport listening to a storybrand podcast. I bought the book but haven’t been through it (they kinda lost me in the first few pages).
I think that's the best way to figure out if X seminary or Y expensive product is worth it. Simply look at their cheaper materials. Iftheir cheaper materials absolutely blow your mind, then it could be worth it.

Worst comes to worse, put it on your credit card. If it sucks, tell your CC company they failed to deliver what they promised and they'll refund you.

I'd caution against this tactic though because often we justify our purchases after the fact. So even if it's not worth it, you may unconsciously justify the purchase.
 

Andy Black

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Worst comes to worse, put it on your credit card. If it sucks, tell your CC company they failed to deliver what they promised and they'll refund you.
I’d ask for a refund first if it didn’t deliver. Not that I’ve ever asked for refunds mind. I wouldn’t go complaining to credit card companies without giving them a chance to refund though.
 

ChrisV

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I’d ask for a refund first if it didn’t deliver. Not that I’ve ever asked for refunds mind. I wouldn’t go complaining to credit card companies without giving them a chance to refund though.
That's probably a better way, but I usually honestly don't have the time or patience. When you go to the company they're sitting on hold like 'okay we're going to investigate it... it will take 7-10 business days and you.." When you do it through the CC company it's in your account immediately then they reverse the transaction to the vender.

But actually Andy is right.. this is the correct procedure ad probably a less dick-head way of doing things.
 

Andy Black

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Go through their funnel. I thought they did a good job of getting me to signup, and then sending a series of videos, that I didn’t have to wait daily for if I wanted to skip ahead. I bought the book because I was curious, and will likely go through it sometime. It’s just that I’m reading to solve specific problems in front of me, and branding via storytelling isn’t the problem right in front of me at the moment.

The podcast is pretty good. He’s interviewing some interesting business guys and authors.

The $10k to get certified would be to be a part of their wider team of consultants. Smart on their part, and more than just a training course if you were to do it (which I have no intention of).

I liked some of their framework for creating a salespage, but I have my own framework and process that’s slightly different.
 

ChrisV

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Sometimes these expensive training programs are worth it. Can you get the info elsewhere? Probably. But that's true of anything. I mean i bought an expensive program a bit back and sure I could have gotten the info elsewhere, but it would have taken days of pouring over bland textbooks. Sometimes you're paying for the convenience.

But then again, sometimes it's pure bullshit.

Again, have you purchased other things from them? If you bought a $20 book from them and it was totally worth it, then you got their $500 video course that was 'totally worth it' that's a good indication that with the $10000 seminar you'll likely feel the same way.
 

loop101

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Would the $10k be better spent on something else for your business, or not spent at all? That should be the question.

And what happens if StoryBrand becomes valueless, like a college degree from Phoenix University? Then you would have to hide your certification.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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Would the $10k be better spent on something else for your business, or not spent at all? That should be the question.

And what happens if StoryBrand becomes valueless, like a college degree from Phoenix University? Then you would have to hide your certification.

Well the part I’m genuinely interested in is the process for becoming a better storyteller. Since I know that narration and repetition are the classic methods for developing this skill I’m curious about how StoryBrand is teaching it.

Since a few of my friends have written extensively about how to go about instructing children to narrate and write well by using simple techniques (we’re talking 350 word essays written about Greek philosophy by 12 yr olds) I guess.. I’m wondering why ppl are paying so much.
 

Andy Black

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Well the part I’m genuinely interested in is the process for becoming a better storyteller. Since I know that narration and repetition are the classic methods for developing this skill I’m curious about how StoryBrand is teaching it.

Since a few of my friends have written extensively about how to go about instructing children to narrate and write well by using simple techniques (we’re talking 350 word essays written about Greek philosophy by 12 yr olds) I guess.. I’m wondering why ppl are paying so much.
It’s about telling the story (stories?) to position your business, build your brand, resonate with your market, and make more sales. (My words not theirs.)

They’ve created a framework to help businesses be clearer about what they do and who they help.

The people getting certified have to be experienced marketers and pay to learn the framework, how to take clients through it, and how to get the clients the results they’re paying for.

The StoryBrand business is building a big lead gen machine to get businesses to pay to get the framework applied to their business. They’re also building a big virtual team who can then deliver the service.

It’s an ROI argument. Spend X to make Y.
 

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PrimaryGoals

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This thread began with a question:

Has anyone bought this? To become a StoryBrand Certified Guide takes 4 days of intensive seminars for the grand sum of ten thousand dollars.

My intention here is to answer that question (Yes, I did), and to share WHY, without proselytizing or pitching.

Most comments above are correct.
You CAN learn most of the content on your own.
You CAN implement most of the principles on your own.
You DO NOT need to attend the course to get value from the material.

The same could be said for doing my taxes, but I choose to hire somebody who is better and faster at it, and who will give me greater protection from audit-able errors than I can do on my own.

The missing distinction in this thread is that with the 4-day certification, their certified guides are not just trained on the concepts, but in how to apply them to others, as well as the common pitfalls (there are many).

This link covers in much greater detail the various levels of involvement with StoryBrand, from reading the book to becoming a guide. I wrote it because I personally wrestled with the questions and criticisms mentioned above for myself.

<Link removed by mod>

In short, if you want to do copywriting and message-based marketing FOR OTHERS, it's a great set of tools. If you want it just for your own business, then do it on your own, or hire a guide like you hire an accountant.
- Ashley
 

Andy Black

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This thread began with a question:



My intention here is to answer that question (Yes, I did), and to share WHY, without proselytizing or pitching.

Most comments above are correct.
You CAN learn most of the content on your own.
You CAN implement most of the principles on your own.
You DO NOT need to attend the course to get value from the material.

The same could be said for doing my taxes, but I choose to hire somebody who is better and faster at it, and who will give me greater protection from audit-able errors than I can do on my own.

The missing distinction in this thread is that with the 4-day certification, their certified guides are not just trained on the concepts, but in how to apply them to others, as well as the common pitfalls (there are many).

This link covers in much greater detail the various levels of involvement with StoryBrand, from reading the book to becoming a guide. I wrote it because I personally wrestled with the questions and criticisms mentioned above for myself.

<Link remover by mod>

In short, if you want to do copywriting and message-based marketing FOR OTHERS, it's a great set of tools. If you want it just for your own business, then do it on your own, or hire a guide like you hire an accountant.
- Ashley
Welcome to the forum. We hope you take off your coat and stay a while.

Thanks for your input. I’ve removed the link. Check the forum rules. Maybe you can drop in some of the main points from your article?

What was your copywriting and story writing experience prior to taking the course?

How has it helped you with your business?
 

PrimaryGoals

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Welcome to the forum. We hope you take off your coat and stay a while.

Thanks for your input. I’ve removed the link. Check the forum rules. Maybe you can drop in some of the main points from your article?

What was your copywriting and story writing experience prior to taking the course?

How has it helped you with your business?

I checked the rules, so please forgive me if my link was inappropriate. Anybody wanting it can google "Storybrand Guide Review" and it's the first unpaid link that comes up.

Prior to the StoryBrand guide program, I've done quite a bit of writing, but not as a formal copywriter. I knew about websites, funnels, conversions, customer-value-journey, digital marketing, etc. My main focus was on the technology that drives a website, less than the copy upfront.

An analogy explains how the course helped me personally with my own business. Few people go to a car dealership looking for an engine (technology). They want to reach their destination (revenue) with a working vehicle (website). After the SB program, I have been better equipped to offer the copywriting on the front-end that then leads them into my own back-end offers. So it augmented what conversations I can have with prospects. For me, that was valuable.
 

ReeZ

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It really depends on the person buying it, whether it's worth it or not and how much it is worth it. Of course, you can learn the same thing for a cheaper price tag. It can cost you mutliple year's worth of time, energy and money. In that case - is it worth it to not go this course?

I have not (yet) taken this course, his book is on my list and his simpler course - I am not interested in the certification seminar.

Whenever there is a course like this, there also Always comes other lessons other than what is explcitly said.

One of the smartest guys I know attend tons of these types of seminars, courses etc.
He always have three different notebooks, or at least 3 different sections in his notetaking app.
  • What they are saying
  • What they are doing
  • How I can take action based on the 2 above.
Take this approach to any book, any teacher, any course, and you are bound to learn SOMETHING. Something that is worth your financial investment as long you apply what it is you have learnt.

Like already said in this thread, it is a good idea to start with the earlier books, courses and see if they are worth the investment.
 

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