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RANT Stay In School It's Not A Waste Of Time!

Discussion in 'Education, Learning, Books' started by Roli, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Jack Hammer
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    Jack Hammer Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER

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    The issue is the difficulty in establishing a causal link. When it comes to an island of man-made plastic trash in the ocean, it's easy to implicate mankind without any doubt. When it comes to determining the effects of mankind's contribution of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, that is a much more difficult problem. The reason is the earth is an extraordinarily complex system, there's only one Earth, and you can't fit it inside a lab. It's quite a leap to go from "There are unusual weather events in Nigeria" to "It's caused by man's CO2 emissions". Did unusual weather events never happen before the industrial revolution?

    An argument I often hear is that the tobacco industry tried to deny the link between smoking and cancer and now, skeptics of climate change are playing the same role. Ultimately, the science demonstrating the link between smoking and cancer prevailed, but those were not N=1 experiments. They looked at thousands of people, both smokers and non-smokers. Furthermore, cancer is a binary thing- you either have it or you don't. Even with those advantages, researchers still had to be rigorous and disciplined to remove the effect of bias and make a compelling case.

    I recommend reading Richard Feynman's speech about cargo cult science (link). Pay attention to the examples he provides of science going astray. Are any of the systems being studied in those examples especially complex? Is there any political or financial pressure for the answers to turn out one way or the other? After reading that, can you honestly say climate science has demonstrated the extraordinary level of rigor needed to make such confident assertions of causality?
     
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  2. Roli
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    Roli Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I hear what you're saying, and I apologise for my earlier glib responses to your post, you clearly have put some thought into this...

    It's just that I can't get away from the fact that if we all decide to do something, or not even all of us, just a lot, then we tend to have a massive environmental impact.

    If we all switched to eating tuna tomorrow, tuna would be extinct by next month. In fact the Japanese have done a fairly good job at eating all the bluefin tuna in the world (or is it yellowfin? I have never bothered to remember).

    I get what you're saying about complex systems, a case in point is the disappearance of bees. We have no idea why they disappearing, and sure we can say that it's just a correlating coincidence that they happen to be going now when we're around, or we can assume that it is something we're doing and try to work out why, seeing as they pollinate most of the food in the world.

    Also have you seen that meme about windshields in the 1970s and ones now? It shows how in the 70s when you went out for a drive in the country, your windshield ended up covered in insects, now not so much.

    Sure, that could be because of different of glass, but maybe not.

    Lastly I would say that in the 1980s I was saying almost exactly what you're saying now about political agendas and so on, however I soon realised that the other people saying these things were the oil companies, the very people who stand to lose if we all decide to focus on renewable energy sources.

    History has proven that the powerful and nefarious are extremely adept at making their argument our argument.

    I just listen to people like David Attenborough, the most respected naturalist on earth, whom has been plying his trade for about half a century and is surely not doing that for overt profit and gain, rather for the love of it.

    He is worried, very, very worried and I'm more likely to listen to him than business people who are worried that we are saving the planet at the expense of their balance sheets.
     
  3. Sadik
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    Sadik Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    The problem with such blanket topics as "School is a waste of time", "Climate change is fake" etc etc is that everyone on every side generalises what he / she thinks the other person is saying. The OP surely had some valid points when he started but the valid points get lost in what the other side's "general" view of the topic are.

    This is a serious problem in debate. Second is emotions, people get emotionally attached to what they think their beliefs are and are almost never willing to change their belief systems. Again, true for all sides. Rare is a person who can first of all, listen attentively and objectively to a very contrarian viewpoint, evaluate them based on reason and be willing to acknowledge that perhaps there is an argument there which could be correct.

    I have thought deeply about the question of education. To try to understand why things are the way they are, one has to look at history to understand how things came to be. The modern system of schools / education essentially stems from post industrial revolution era where having a large pool of people who can do particular jobs in particular way was the need of the hour. Hence our schools indoctrinated things.

    But this isn't how education always was. If you go back a few centuries, the liberal arts and essentially the Trivium (Grammer, Logic and Rhetoric) was the standard of education and it taught those who chose to pursue education, critical thinking. Europe during renaissance, the Arabs during the middle ages, the Greeks before that all focused on education as a method of teaching reason and critical thinking. But global wars, mass industrialisation and modern banking / fiat currency essentially replaced logic / critical thinking with "packaged education". This of course doesn't mean it's all bad. Generalisations are never good. For people who are at the very bottom of Maslow's triangle, modern industrial education can provide a path to rising higher.

    So it depends on the individual situation. Who you are, where you are, what kind of schools are available to you, what your state of awareness about the world is.
     
  4. MNejc
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    MNejc New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Climate change is a scam.
     
  5. Sebastya
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    Sebastya Bronze Contributor

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    Self education is the only thing that will save you.

    Pause. Breathe.
     
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  6. Code
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    Code New Contributor

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    The problem isn't that school is a waste. It's that there are ways that are literally a 10 to sometimes a 100 times more efficient and cheaper than school in any form of education.
     
  7. Tossek
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    Tossek New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    I liked going to university. Grammar school was not so my thing but ok. I am a very technical guy in the end and could live up my "dream" to be a researcher while doing my PhD ... find something that noone found before. Then, I had enough and went to industry and learned soooo much there as well. I mean my time is not scalable and this is maybe .

    But not everybody likes to be SEO (and wants to be). Not everybody wants to be a service man or a business man. Some people have to manufacture parts, others want to develop high technology. How about all the internet businesses here without having a developed network system called "internet"? And the people that invented this have all studied because for them it was the fastlane to knowledge and not to money.

    Some just want to do their 9 to 5 and done. And still in this time you learn many lessons that can prepare you for your fastlane adventure. E. g. my aim is to stick 5 years with my current company and see different positions and read and learn stuff next to this work and try some side hustles ... again just to learn. And then I plan my next step. And probably then it is time for fastlane to money. :)
     
  8. Jack Hammer
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    Jack Hammer Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER

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    I haven't watched any of David Attenborough's documentaries, so I honestly don't know- what does he propose we do about it? Does it involve expanding nuclear power and natural gas? If so, he might be worth taking seriously. If not or if he actively opposes them like most of the environmental movement, he isn't.

    A recent IPCC report estimates that if we do nothing, the world economy will be 8% smaller than it would be otherwise in the year 2100. An economy that would probably be 3+ times larger than it is now might only be 2.7+ times larger- hardly the doomsday scenario we're told to expect.

    For a more sober analysis of the problem, it might be worth checking out Bjorn Lomborg. Here's his TED talk from 2005: Global priorities bigger than climate change
     
  9. Roli
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    Roli Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    It is not about having a smaller or larger economy, it is about being able to breathe clean air and live on a planet that isn't poisoned.

    As for Mr Lomborg, you might want to read this before quoting him again.

    Spoiler alert: He has changed his mind.


    Bjørn Lomborg: the dissenting climate change voice who changed his tune

    Natural gas and nuclear power are not the only alternatives by the way, and fracking throws up a whole host of problems that we don't even want to go into.

    England now has earthquakes you can feel, which originate (you guessed it) at fracking sites.
     
  10. Jack Hammer
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    Jack Hammer Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER

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    No, he really hasn't changed his mind. He might change the number of dollars he thinks we should spend mitigating climate change, but his message is still the same- the alarmist line is wrong, climate change is not catastrophic but just one of many problems humanity faces, and we should prioritize spending accordingly to achieve the greatest good. Even the article you link to points this out:

    "The point I've always been making," he explains now, "is, it's not the end of the world. That is why we should be measuring up to what everybody else says, which is we should be spending our money well."​

    Here's the sort of thing he's been posting on Twitter recently: Bjorn Lomborg on Twitter

    I bring up the economic effects because if the alarmists are right, it won't result in a slightly smaller economy than we'd otherwise have. It will result in having no economy at all. Or at best, an economy a fraction of the size of today's economy.

    Natural gas and nuclear aren't the only solutions, but they are obvious low-hanging fruit. They're clean, have low emissions (nuclear especially), are economical, reliable, not intermittent, and even climate skeptics can get behind them. They would go a long way in fulfilling your goal of having cleaner air to breathe. And of course they have problems. Everything has problems. No industrial activity is perfect and risk-free. Natural gas makes a great replacement for coal. Does coal not present huge problems? Do the much-touted solar panels and windmills not have problems? Environmentalists keep telling us that climate change threatens our species' existence and we must make great sacrifices to avoid it, but then they get fussy about occasional mild earthquakes? What solution are they proposing that would be effective and doesn't have any negative effects?
     
  11. The Abundant Man
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    The Abundant Man Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    upload_2019-5-14_8-41-17.jpeg
     
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  12. DavidTT
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    DavidTT Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    IMHO I do feel that I have benefitted from school and going to university but mostly in an indirect way. For example, I entered in English Literature which might seem like the most useless program to most and also has very little to do with making money. However, because I studied that matter, it really opened the doors to reading for me. I used to NEVER read books before but now I read books on a regular basis. Another thing to mention is that because I read books, I eventually stumbled on TMFL which really blew my mind (I think for all of us lol). I also noticed that most friends/family who read books tend to have attended some sort of post-secondary education.

    The real problem that I see with higher education is the cost of it. However, thank God my father is a professor at my university so I do get a discount. That being said, since I do get it at a much cheaper rate, is it still worth it?
     

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