Social Media Destroys Entrepreneurs. Grow Your Business Without It.

[MTF]

MJ doesn’t publish shit. He publishes the opposite and does well out of it.

I was changing the order of words in that sentence and now realized it could have been interpreted like this.

I meant spending the majority of your time posting and preaching on social media. Not necesarily low-quality stuff, just posting a lot in general like a job.

You can relate to that as you also don't want to be forced to post something daily just because you're expected to do it.

 

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[MTF]

Probably a dumb question but, have you thought about offering a different product/ service? I would imagine marketing a discomfort newsletter would be hard considering how comfort-orientated 99.7% of people are. And the 0.3% are usually out doing uncomfortable shit and may not want to read a newsletter.

It's a smart question, not a dumb one.

I have a problem starting B2C businesses that are for successful people (or that are about higher needs) while the best B2C businesses to start are usually (not always but usually) those where you prey on weaknesses/lower needs - vanity, hedonism, uncertainty, sex, greed, etc.

So my primary choices are to either keep trying selling things that are hard to sell or betray my values. I wouldn't want to sell based on people's fear/uncertainty or to make their lives worse.

The third option is to go B2B where you help businesses become more efficient/make more money and social media is often completely irrelevant. But these for me personally usually don't feel like meaningful projects.

Or if I still want to focus on successful people, probably the only sensible route online is to target the business/investing niche. But again, at some point is stops being meaningful to simply help people make more money.

Is it only for this that you have struggled to market? Seems like you're being overly tough on yourself by questioning your entrepreneurial identity just because you failed to market something that seems very hard to market.

Except for maybe some B2B businesses I wouldn't know how to market any business anymore as it looks like the default is either organic social media or paid social media (including Facebook Ads).

I'm the victim of my own success on Amazon where it was largely Amazon that was responsible for marketing. I was simply there at the right time, put in the work, and figured out how to benefit from their huge machine.

 

[MTF]

This meme is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

I wonder who's reaching millions of customers daily with social media (except for those who already have millions of followers).

Here's my take on this:



Also, even if you're reaching millions of people, how many give you more than a half a second of attention only to move on to another post and never remember yours?

Followers, likes, reactions, retweets, etc. don't mean shit. It's the funniest trick social media platforms pulled on people, akin to handing out people Monopoly money and people with more Monopoly money thinking they're somehow better (while their real bank accounts show zeros).

If you can develop relationships using social media, that's awesome (but good luck with self-absorbed social media stars treating you seriously with 34 followers, you peasant).

But if you're using it to grow your business and the only thing you're getting are increased metrics ON the social media platform you're using (and nothing outside of it), you're just wasting your time.

 

[fastlane_dad]

Interesting post, and goes through and evaluates a lot of the pros/cons when putting yourself out there for the world to see on any given social media platform.

I (at the current time) do not engage much on all of those networks - but have some family and friends that have built up a crowd of small followers in their specific niches. They seem to do well by marketing to that crowd (they are always amazed at the power of social media when it comes to selling their goods).

All of these examples are in part their passion / hobby but just so happens to be also where they either actively make a living, or use it to supplement an income source.

Neither fully 'relies' on social media at all - but I have seen over and over the case of the usual - it you put in the work -- the money, the results and your 'crowd' will come.

Granted for these people, posting and engaging with the crowd is more of something they LIKE doing, then feel like they HAVE to be doing - but sometimes that crosses a thin line.

Anyways, social media isn't going away any time soon, and there are countless ways to get involved in and use it to your advantage.

I also like it for the fact that aside from some 'sweat equity' - usually there's not much of an investment you need to make to scale, grow and engage an audience.

One of the products or businesses that we're debating growing next, would rely more heavily on social media marketing and promotion. The product bodes very well with the instagram type market - but it would be a whole new beast for us to tackle.

 

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[MTF]

Granted for these people, posting and engaging with the crowd is more of something they LIKE doing, then feel like they HAVE to be doing - but sometimes that crosses a thin line.

I guess that makes all the difference. If you're doing it because you HAVE TO (but you don't like it), it's not going to work well. Some personalities do well on social media because they enjoy the attention and love generating it.

 

[fastlane_dad]

I guess that makes all the difference. If you're doing it because you HAVE TO (but you don't like it), it's not going to work well. Some personalities do well on social media because they enjoy the attention and love generating it.

Exactly right. Sometimes I feel like for certain personalities, its harder to NOT post on any given day - then to just actively showcase (show off?) the lifestyle through stories, reels, videos and what not. And with that obviously through repetition + duration comes a reward sometime down the line. Much of the content is not planned or thought of, its just whatever the day and the events ARE.

If your values and personalities alight with it, being a 'creator' has been a great proposition the last half decade or so.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I guess that makes all the difference. If you're doing it because you HAVE TO (but you don't like it), it's not going to work well. Some personalities do well on social media because they enjoy the attention and love generating it.

It's an extrovert's medium, as is most of the world. Just one of the many disadvantages introverts face when trying to succeed in an extroverts "look at me!" world where the loudest and obnoxious get the grease.

 

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[MTF]

If your values and personalities alight with it, being a 'creator' has been a great proposition the last half decade or so.

I agree. As long as you love the attention, have a sellable personality and don't mind being a personal brand, it's a great business to be in.

It's an extrovert's medium, as is most of the world. Just one of the many disadvantages introverts face when trying to succeed in an extroverts "look at me!" world where the loudest and obnoxious get the grease.

Sad but true. I've seen this over and over again that those who are the loudest win the most.

I know this can be considered an excuse but there are certain parts of one's personality you can't just change like that. And even if you can try to adapt, your life will suck as you'll be doing things against your nature.

If you win the most being the loudest and the most obnoxious, extroverts don't have to change anything. Quite the contrary: they can fully embrace who they are. But introverts have to completely change who they are and I really don't think such a transition is possible without destroying your mental health.

 

[Andy Black]

I don't think it's about loving attention. I think if your goal is to serve people then that can come across.

I'm an introvert, but I step up to do speeches or eulogies when I have to - because i know it's not about me. People don't care about me when I'm in front of them, they care about themselves, how you make them feel, and WiiFM (what's in it for me?).

I don't think being loud and obnoxious is the only way that works either. Personally, I turn off when I see loud or obnoxious - I find it tiresome. I think the "problems" you're all citing just make it easier to stand out.

 

[fastlane_dad]

Sad but true. I've seen this over and over again that those who are the loudest win the most.

I know this can be considered an excuse but there are certain parts of one's personality you can't just change like that. And even if you can try to adapt, your life will suck as you'll be doing things against your nature.

If you win the most being the loudest and the most obnoxious, extroverts don't have to change anything. Quite the contrary: they can fully embrace who they are. But introverts have to completely change who they are and I really don't think such a transition is possible without destroying your mental health.

'Where attention goes money flows'. It's been said again over and over - and it's true honestly for ANY medium, not just social media these days.

The ads that get repeated over and over get stuck in my head. As much as I don't want to admit - I too am a consumer of many products that are marketed and promoted heavily. Or have a lot of positive amazon reviews. Or have established dominance / image - THROUGH incessant marketing of ways.

Whether it's GEICO insurance, FRITO-LAY chips, ROLEX or BMWS - shouting the loudest , for the longest duration works, and many times also subsequently creates culture, perception, values and actions ALL based around that.

Yes - I'm not blind to all this, and question every one of my buying decisions whether I bought it because of advertising, instagram phenomena, glowing 'youtube' feedback (that can be paid or not!), or the 'most' reviews on a given platform - OR it is truly the best product on the market.

As many say - you can write the BEST book, or invent the absolute BEST product - and admitting productocracy is important - somewhere along the line some version of shouting is necessary to stand out in a VERY noisy world.

 

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[MTF]

As many say - you can write the BEST book, or invest the absolute BEST product - and admitting productocracy is important - somewhere along the line some version of shouting is necessary to stand out in a VERY noisy world.

One exception that comes to my mind is luxury products. Then it's not about shouting but whispers.

B2B can also be like that - less shouting, more targeted conversations.

 

[fastlane_dad]

One exception that comes to my mind is luxury products. Then it's not about shouting but whispers.

B2B can also be like that - less shouting, more targeted conversations.

By the marketers themselves - MAYBE. But by the current 'flex' culture online - the shouting is done not by the manufacturers, but by the onslaught of followers showing off their goods all over the internet world.

Maybe in part that's what helps drive a lot of luxury success these days - is this continuous feedback/purchase loop to not only be able to SEE these products in your face over and over - but able to SHOW IT OFF in a click of a photo / submission online within seconds.

There is no better showing off medium now for displaying your lambos, birkin bags, rolexes and all else luxury then online. And if you are an extrovert on top of that with those goods - you are basically doing gods work for these companies (productocracy to the max!!).

And there is no shortage of that 'shouting' anywhere I look.

 

[Leo Hartas]

Before I went on my entrepreneurial journey I worked as a freelance slowlaner and almost as soon as social media appeared realised I would have to be on it to find clients. I love and hate it. I love that it's effectively a constantly updated Roladex of friends, business colleagues, acquaintances, etc. Contacting them all will be my first free port of call to market my new business. I hate just about everything else about it. From time to time I'll scroll through but rarely post and never comment on anything the least bit controversial.

The one social media platform I do engage in is Pinterest, which I guess is perfect for an artist. I marvel at it's cleverness in automatically curating areas I'm interested in while gently expanding my view. I never feel it's too pushy like other platforms. I'm sure it's as evil as the rest, flogging my data, etc. but I'd miss it if were gone, as though someone had taken away my favourite art books. I've decided to put the majority of my marketing efforts, including some ad spend, into this one platform, which is alone with You Tube in keeping posts discoverable indefinitely. I still find some pins I put up a decade ago are still being found and shared. It helps too that 90% of my target audience use the platform.

 

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[MTF]

Before I went on my entrepreneurial journey I worked as a freelance slowlaner and almost as soon as social media appeared realised I would have to be on it to find clients. I love and hate it. I love that it's effectively a constantly updated Roladex of friends, business colleagues, acquaintances, etc. Contacting them all will be my first free port of call to market my new business. I hate just about everything else about it. From time to time I'll scroll through but rarely post and never comment on anything the least bit controversial.

The one social media platform I do engage in is Pinterest, which I guess is perfect for an artist. I marvel at it's cleverness in automatically curating areas I'm interested in while gently expanding my view. I never feel it's too pushy like other platforms. I'm sure it's as evil as the rest, flogging my data, etc. but I'd miss it if were gone, as though someone had taken away my favourite art books. I've decided to put the majority of my marketing efforts, including some ad spend, into this one platform, which is alone with You Tube in keeping posts discoverable indefinitely. I still find some pins I put up a decade ago are still being found and shared. It helps too that 90% of my target audience use the platform.

Yeah I forgot about Pinterest as it's a fairly niche social media platform but I've heard for some niches it works great. And because your pins are discoverable indefinitely, that definitely (pun intended) makes it a more sensible platform from the business point of view.

 

[MaxT]

This topic is very interesting. I have a question for you, if you had to start your project from scratch, how would you promote it today?

 

[MTF]

This topic is very interesting. I have a question for you, if you had to start your project from scratch, how would you promote it today?

What kind of a business?

 

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[MaxT]

What kind of a business?

For example a business of a book you have write or an app on android/iOS

 

[MTF]

For example a business of a book you have write or an app on android/iOS

Both are actually great examples of business models that don't require social media marketing.

Books are way easier to market through Amazon/BookBub/book promo sites/joint author promos/newsletters than through social media. I used pretty much zero social media to build my self-publishing company.

Apps are way easier to market through paid marketing than organic social media as you can even pay per app install.

 

[Leo Hartas]

This topic is very interesting. I have a question for you, if you had to start your project from scratch, how would you promote it today?

This is very much the moment in time that we're at! Our first product is about to launch (I've been saying this for weeks) and we have done virtually no marketing so far as we had to get the product and system in place before releasing it to the public.

I guess it depends a lot of what you're offering, who it is for, how much of a rush you are in and the size of your budget. Our product is for kids and is aimed at the mass market, as apposed to a specific niche, although we can roughly narrow it down to the probable customers who buy children's books to 90% mothers and grandparents, which is still a big segment.

Our plan so far is roughly this:
1. Free. SEO perfect the website as best as we can.
2. Freeish. Provide excess value with the final product, it's packaging, and include incentives for the recipients to share, leave reviews, and sign up to the newsletter. We're hoping that the WOW! value will result in word of mouth doing most of the longer term marketing.
3. Free. Market to my personal network first via email, SM, in person. If we add up everyone we have ever had a connection with it's probably a few thousand people. Hoped effect, see 1 above.
4. Free. Social media posting. We're going to concentrate on Pinterest and duplicate the posts to the other platforms, but not spend much time on them.
5. Paid. We have a limited budget we're planning to try Google Shopping Ads.
6. Paid. Very limited spend on FB ads mainly to better identify my market and gather email subscribers.
7. Free. Shout from the rooftops!
8. Prey!

We have also created a free online children's magazine that we hope has enough excess value to find it's way across the internet, though even free stuff has to be marketed.

After that is to see what metrics come back and adjust as necessary. We would be very interested to hear what anyone thinks of this plan.

 

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[MaxT]

This is very much the moment in time that we're at! Our first product is about to launch (I've been saying this for weeks) and we have done virtually no marketing so far as we had to get the product and system in place before releasing it to the public.

I guess it depends a lot of what you're offering, who it is for, how much of a rush you are in and the size of your budget. Our product is for kids and is aimed at the mass market, as apposed to a specific niche, although we can roughly narrow it down to the probable customers who buy children's books to 90% mothers and grandparents, which is still a big segment.

Our plan so far is roughly this:
1. Free. SEO perfect the website as best as we can.
2. Freeish. Provide excess value with the final product, it's packaging, and include incentives for the recipients to share, leave reviews, and sign up to the newsletter. We're hoping that the WOW! value will result in word of mouth doing most of the longer term marketing.
3. Free. Market to my personal network first via email, SM, in person. If we add up everyone we have ever had a connection with it's probably a few thousand people. Hoped effect, see 1 above.
4. Free. Social media posting. We're going to concentrate on Pinterest and duplicate the posts to the other platforms, but not spend much time on them.
5. Paid. We have a limited budget we're planning to try Google Shopping Ads.
6. Paid. Very limited spend on FB ads mainly to better identify my market and gather email subscribers.
7. Free. Shout from the rooftops!
8. Prey!

We have also created a free online children's magazine that we hope has enough excess value to find it's way across the internet, though even free stuff has to be marketed.

After that is to see what metrics come back and adjust as necessary. We would be very interested to hear what anyone thinks of this plan.

Simple and efficient. It is true that these are excellent bases I think. By doing well on these stated points, I think that we can largely do without social networks.

 

[Leo Hartas]

Simple and efficient. It is true that these are excellent bases I think. By doing well on these stated points, I think that we can largely do without social networks.

Thanks MaxT,
I think simplicity is the key. I've watched many videos and read books about marketing and it explodes into a massive confusion that I couldn't do in 10 lifetimes.

Just to add, we have that marketing budget which we will try on Google Shopping Ads, but we're also considering old fashioned print magazine ads. For our product it would be mother and child magazines, and even knitting mags, etc. The ad rates for quarter page or small ads are not so expensive. I did this with a past venture in a trade mag and it did bring in a steady stream of customers. The good thing about print is the magazine doesn't get thrown out for a while and the ad may be repeatedly viewed in a way that competition for screen space doesn't allow.

 

[Leo Hartas]

Thanks MaxT,
I think simplicity is the key. I've watched many videos and read books about marketing and it explodes into a massive confusion that I couldn't do in 10 lifetimes.

Just to add, we have that marketing budget which we will try on Google Shopping Ads, but we're also considering old fashioned print magazine ads. For our product it would be mother and child magazines, and even knitting mags, etc. The ad rates for quarter page or small ads are not so expensive. I did this with a past venture in a trade mag and it did bring in a steady stream of customers. The good thing about print is the magazine doesn't get thrown out for a while and the ad may be repeatedly viewed in a way that competition for screen space doesn't allow.

Another thought is using platforms that are marketplaces themselves, but for marketing only. For example running a Kickstarter, not to meet your goal, (though it may and that would be a bonus) but just to get your product seen for really no or little cost. Also, Etsy, Not on the High street, etc.

 

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[MaxT]

Another thought is using platforms that are marketplaces themselves, but for marketing only. For example running a Kickstarter, not to meet your goal, (though it may and that would be a bonus) but just to get your product seen for really no or little cost. Also, Etsy, Not on the High street, etc.

Some good tips thank you ! . I've read a lot of marketing books and watch a lot of videos. I totally agree with you, all this content explode our brain. I love only one book : personal mba. It resume all the content. It's my bible now. I will try Kickstarter and Etsy soon, thank you for help me. I'm looking for learn and try some tips/hack for promote my businesses

 

[MaxT]

Going back to your ads in magazines I think it's a great idea. How much do you pay for these advertisements?

 

[Leo Hartas]

Going back to your ads in magazines I think it's a great idea. How much do you pay for these advertisements?

It varies a lot. Obviously Vogue is going to be very expensive.. but small niche magazines it can be £300-600 per month for a quarter page. Find a mag online in your niche and click on 'Advertise with us'. They usually give all the costs.. also, you can try phoning them and plead poverty to get a discount. I saw you had a book about skateboarding, perfect for smaller niche magazines. To be effective you have to advertise for 3+ months in a row. Not saying it'll work, but it's another thing to try.

 

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[Leo Hartas]

It varies a lot. Obviously Vogue is going to be very expensive.. but small niche magazines it can be £300-600 per month for a quarter page. Find a mag online in your niche and click on 'Advertise with us'. They usually give all the costs.. also, you can try phoning them and plead poverty to get a discount. I saw you had a book about skateboarding, perfect for smaller niche magazines. To be effective you have to advertise for 3+ months in a row. Not saying it'll work, but it's another thing to try.

Just to add, the downside is that it is hard to tell where the business came from with magazines.. so you're more in the dark about their effectiveness than online ads.

 

[MTF]

Just to add, the downside is that it is hard to tell where the business came from with magazines.. so you're more in the dark about their effectiveness than online ads.

For each ad, you could buy simple short domain names that would redirect to your main website. Or use QR codes with UTM tags and then you can use your own website.

 

[MaxT]

It varies a lot. Obviously Vogue is going to be very expensive.. but small niche magazines it can be £300-600 per month for a quarter page. Find a mag online in your niche and click on 'Advertise with us'. They usually give all the costs.. also, you can try phoning them and plead poverty to get a discount. I saw you had a book about skateboarding, perfect for smaller niche magazines. To be effective you have to advertise for 3+ months in a row. Not saying it'll work, but it's another thing to try.

That's really interesting, and you have a good return on invest with this ads on physic mag/virtual ? Because indeed there are several skate magazines and blogs, known worldwide. I think I'll give it a try

 

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[MaxT]

For each ad, you could buy simple short domain names that would redirect to your main website. Or use QR codes with UTM tags and then you can use your own website.

The idea of buying several domains is interesting from a referencing and product visibility point of view. Moreover, given the cost of a domain why deprive yourself of it

 

[Leo Hartas]

That's really interesting, and you have a good return on invest with this ads on physic mag/virtual ? Because indeed there are several skate magazines and blogs, known worldwide. I think I'll give it a try

I hope it's works out. Definitely post your results here.