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So WTF are NFTs all about? Buying JPGs? Why can't you just right-click save? Is this a giant ponzi? Far from it...

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Keeton

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I've noticed that there is an increasing number of people on this forum that are becoming aware of NFTs and are interested to participate, but rightfully cautious at the moment. After all, it sounds absolute bat-shit crazy to talk about NFTs today. Buy a $300,000 jpg of some pixels? Bound to get ridiculed by way of pointing at ponzis and tulips. In fact, this is how I feel every time I talk about NFTs to somebody that's only known of them from word of mouth with the real value-proposition seemingly lost in translation.

So I'm starting a separate thread outside of the main Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency discussions to bring attention to this next-level abstraction that we as fastlane unscripted f*ck-you entrepreneurs absolutely ought to know about.

I've been digging and digging for the "right" resource but I've only lead myself astray - I do not believe a comprehensive medium exists that encompasses the depth/breadth of what we're talking about.

Instead, I've opted to share with you glimpses of the vision and hope that with the community here we can gather the missing pieces as the story unravels before us.

I'm going to Frankenstein a bunch of different things together so bear with me.

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From VISA's latest CryptoPunk purchase (today) comes an article describing NFTs. It mostly brags about VISA and lacks enough depth but it's a good start for people that have no idea wth I'm talking about. Here are some key points and I'll even highlight the bangers.

Let’s start with the basics — how do you explain NFTs?​

Cuy Sheffield: NFTs are a way to represent ownership of a digital good, like an image, video, or piece of text. Since the rise of the Internet, there hasn’t been a way to claim possession of a digital good, since most files can be infinitely copied, pasted, and shared. NFTs are unique tokens that can be used to certify the provenance, authenticity, and ownership of a piece of digital media.

Like cryptocurrencies, NFTs are tracked and exchanged on a public blockchain. But unlike cryptocurrencies, NFTs are unique. One bitcoin is identical to another, but each NFT is one-of-a kind.

What excites you about NFTs?​

Sheffield: NFTs have the potential to become a powerful accelerator for the creator economy and lower the barrier to entry for individual creatives to earn a living through digital commerce. NFTs are starting to usher in a new form of social commerce that empowers both creators and collectors.

NFTs could also fuel small and medium sized businesses (SMBs) in powerful new ways. The rise of ecommerce has made it possible for SMBs to sell online and reach customers around the globe. But they still have to produce and ship physical goods, which can have high upfront costs. NFTs give small businesses an opportunity to harness public blockchains for producing digital goods—which can be delivered instantly to a crypto wallet. We can envision a future in which your crypto address becomes as important as your mailing address.

How are you and your partners at Visa thinking about this space?​

Sheffield: From a commercial perspective, NFTs are gaining momentum as digital-first sports memorabilia. With platforms like NBA Top Shot, fans can collect and display their favorite game “moments.”

We expect a huge range of new cases in the years ahead. The ability to track and leverage a digital asset in multiple environments could mean exciting new opportunities in ticketing, gaming music, art, and beyond.

Imagine discovering a new musician online. You purchase an NFT of their album art, which can simultaneously serve as a piece of art that you can display online, an entry into an exclusive chat group where you get to connect with other superfans, and a backstage pass for an upcoming show. Ownership of the NFT could also unlock exclusive memorabilia, whether “air dropped” into the owner’s wallet or rewarded after certain behavior, like making a purchase at a specific store.

The artist and their fans can now connect directly with each other and build a powerful community that create new experiences for both.

How might Visa play a role?​

Sheffield: NFTs are rapidly gaining traction and we expect continued growth. For example, there has already been $1B in payment volume in August alone up from less than $100M in all of 2020.

Enabling secure commerce is what we do — we’re the network working for everyone — and that extends to new forms of digital commerce that unlock access. So, it’s not surprising that we’re thinking deeply about this space and how we can apply our expertise in enabling seamless and secure digital payments to make NFT-commerce accessible and useable for buyers and sellers.

In the near term, we want to help brands and businesses better understand NFTs and how they might be harnessed for customer and fan engagement. To that end, we published a paper with observations on today’s NFT landscape, as well as actionable guidance on how to evaluate and scale NFT opportunities.

Looking ahead, we’re working on some new concepts and partnerships that support NFT buyers, sellers, and creators. We look forward to sharing more in the months ahead.

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Now let's talk about imo the most exciting economy that emerges from the NFT abstraction: the MetaVerse.

I wrote the below piece back in February of this year - and it is more relevant today than ever so review it if you want to get a better feel for what the MetaVerse is all about.


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There was also a post I read this morning that describe this emerging economy nicely so I will share as well:

On Metaverse "But in the metaverse" is a running joke on cryptotwitter I regret to inform you that it is no joke. What we are playing for is whether our children will be fully free or residents in a digital company universe - with the illusion of free, but not really free.

The Wikipedia definition is OK "The Metaverse is a collective virtual shared space, created by the convergence of virtually enhanced physical reality and physically persistent virtual space, including the sum of all virtual worlds, augmented reality, and the Internet."

In other words, the metaverse is a superset of virtual realities, augmented realities and the internet. NFT Twitter & Discord is a form of proto-metaverse, with its avatars, shared communities and shared 2D/3D spaces (
@opensea, @oncyber, @decentraland), hanging off it.

And this is, of course, a continuation of decades of internet communities from bulletin boards to AOL to modern social networks So what is different now? Why does this feel different? So what is different now? Well, global internet scale for one, but more importantly: - Crypto/NFTs and - UX

Crypto, and in particular NFTs, have converted our online communities for the very first time into an ownership society. Your avatar, your digital art, your in-game items, your gallery template are all NFTs and they are genuinely owned by you

This is very new, very different. You are not a 'user' on the flip side of an EULA, a mere guest on someone's server with effectively no rights whatsoever, but a true sovereign owner of your digital objects. It is BTC, but for everything digital

The scale and breadth of what this can unleash is astounding as you get huge decentralized global communities coordinated with economic incentives. Crypto is like 5x normie speed. NFTs are 2x to 3x crypto speed

What about UX? This is what drives the jokes right now. 3D worlds are still clunky. Interesting, but not ready for consumer prime-time YET. I like Decentraland, but my information flow is 100x better on Twitter

The UX issue is going to be solved in the 2020s [AceVentures here: this is what LUKSO's ERC725 asset class unlocks, seamless UX via blockchain abstraction]. You can expect photorealistic mixed reality (augmented reality, virtual reality and real reality) with minimal lag in non-ridiculous devices this decade. Mixed realty (the Metaverse) will be just your regular life.

Some of the smartest people in tech also know this, including: 1) Mark Zuckerberg 2) Epic Games https://theverge.com/22588022/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-ceo-metaverse-interview

This is both good because they have the money to invest in improving the tech but this is bad because the goal will be walled gardens. You already can't access the best VR hardware in the market without a Facebook account which is, to me, alarming

Unfortunately right now we have few allies: a) China is going walled garden b) US political leadership is not thinking strategically, sees everything through an AML/KYC lens c) EU is determined to learn nothing from the last 30 years of tech failures

So anon fam, for right now, we are on our own. We have to build, build, build now, as fast as possible, to make the default decision for corporations to join the open system, not to try to capture a closed one.

We are all in this together. Don't sweat the differences between punks / BAYC / AB or 1/1s. Right now we need to scale and onboard everyone. If we can get 1M, 10M, 100M, 1B people the experience of owning their digital assets, good luck to the in-game closed store.

The Metaverse will actually happen this decade. If it is open, human innovation will flourish. If it is closed, we are digital serfs of sorts. We 100,000 or so people right now are the front-line in this battle and we have to do it ourselves.


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There is much more to this and I will be updating this thread as I get more time. For now - let's just get a conversation started. And y'all please make an effort to keep this thread separate from the BTC/Crypto thread which has an INSANE amount of value contained within. This is not meant to replace the other thread - but instead of all the price talk, I just want us to take a step back here and understand the abstraction, to discuss emerging business models, to talk about the topic of private ownership, and ultimately to leave bread crumbs for the less fortunate amongst us to catch up with this ground-breaking model for future economies.

As a fellow Unscripted member of this forum - I salute you for taking the time to educate yourself on a controversial and technically challenging idea.

Tagging @GPM @Bekit @Ocean Man who had originally asked for some NFT info - just as a reminder that I've decided to take this conversation out of the main BTC/Crypto thread.
The main point of NFT's are to launder money. If you look at the celebrities who have been pushing for the popularization of NFT's, its all super rich people who want to hide their money. For example Logan Paul, who is moving to Costa Rica to avoid taxes. Which you can think what you want about tax havens, but I'm just saying the reason as to why NFT's were created.
 

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Adidas had the NFT drop recently and the max mint per user was 2.

A developer was being creative and developed a workaround by generating smart contracts which minted the NFT, sent the minted NFTs to the owner, and then destroyed themselves.

In the end, he was able to mint 330 Adidas NFTs.

In total, he paid $104k in gas fees to process this, on top of 66 ETH ~$252k to pay for the items themselves.
So he risked, $356,000 on an NFT drop. 0.2ETH to mint 1 NFT.

The NFT currently has a floor price of 0.818ETH. Let's say he held onto the 330. If he was able to sell them all now, he'd have $1,068,147.88. Not sure how much he has sold thus far but seems like he made a pretty penny.

-- Edit for the Twitter thread that explains it better than I can and where I got the information from:
View: https://twitter.com/Montana_Wong/status/1472023753865396227


It's an interesting read!

As a developer myself, I wouldn't have thought of this workaround myself. I don't have enough experience yet to have thought of something like this. It just shows how important dev skills, an understanding of the EVM, and this space in general are/going to be.
 
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Ocean Man

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The main point of NFT's are to launder money. If you look at the celebrities who have been pushing for the popularization of NFT's, its all super rich people who want to hide their money. For example Logan Paul, who is moving to Costa Rica to avoid taxes. Which you can think what you want about tax havens, but I'm just saying the reason as to why NFT's were created.
Who are you to judge someone who wants to move to another country? It doesn't matter if it's to lessen their tax burden. That's just a smart money move.

I don't even want to start on convincing you whether or not NFTs are for "money laundering". Just stick to your ROTH IRA and tradfi.
 
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Question...

1) I write a new book.
2) I release as an NFT.
3) It sells for $20, about the average price of a book. I get twenty bucks.
4) One person owns it, and sells it to another person. I got a small royalty.
5) This happens 10 times. I get more royalties.
6) One of those buyers throws the book up on the torrents where 1,000,000 can download it illegally, just like a normal PDF.

IOW, what stops this book from ending up on the torrents and being stolen like every one of my other books?

And BTW, claiming that "You can track your NFT and who illegally posted it" is not a security feature. The end result is the same: I write a book that everyone steals for free on the torrents. At some point, the NFT has no value in being traded because the book has already been copied and stolen thousands of times.
 

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Question...

1) I write a new book.
2) I release as an NFT.
3) It sells for $20, about the average price of a book. I get twenty bucks.
4) One person owns it, and sells it to another person. I got a small royalty.
5) This happens 10 times. I get more royalties.
6) One of those buyers throws the book up on the torrents where 1,000,000 can download it illegally, just like a normal PDF.

IOW, what stops this book from ending up on the torrents and being stolen like every one of my other books?

And BTW, claiming that "You can track your NFT and who illegally posted it" is not a security feature. The end result is the same: I write a book that everyone steals for free on the torrents. At some point, the NFT has no value in being traded because the book has already been copied and stolen thousands of times.

MJ,

There is no protection. That’s the short of it.

But… If you do it the NFT route, then you could have a verifiable book as original and the community could see that you indeed own it. If you wanted to cheat and download one from the torrents, you could get it and get the materials. But you could not show that you own the real book that MJ sold. Does it matter at all? It depends. I bet on this forum if there was a “verified” feature, it would be a badge of honour. And if someone lied about that, it would be easy to show.

Also, imagine a limited production with a hard copy attached that has a chip in it. Scan it, link it to your blockchain and boom, you have one out of 100 only, signed by MJ books. Collector item that could be displayed digitally, even when you own it in real life too.
 

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Question...

1) I write a new book.
2) I release as an NFT.
3) It sells for $20, about the average price of a book. I get twenty bucks.
4) One person owns it, and sells it to another person. I got a small royalty.
5) This happens 10 times. I get more royalties.
6) One of those buyers throws the book up on the torrents where 1,000,000 can download it illegally, just like a normal PDF.

IOW, what stops this book from ending up on the torrents and being stolen like every one of my other books?

And BTW, claiming that "You can track your NFT and who illegally posted it" is not a security feature. The end result is the same: I write a book that everyone steals for free on the torrents. At some point, the NFT has no value in being traded because the book has already been copied and stolen thousands of times.
You're right, somebody could definitely upload the e-book to a torrenting website.

Somebody can buy a physical copy of your book right now, scan each page, stitch it all together and upload that to a torrenting website.

The thing is as the NFT creator, you're able to determine the royalties on this book. Let's say I purchase your physical book and you get some profit from that. Well typically, that's where it ends for you. We exchanged value. I got the book and you got the $$$. When I resell the physical book, you're not going to get anything from it.

But let's say that instead, I bought your NFT book and you get some profit from that. But that's not where it ends. When I resell the NFT book, you're able to receive a set % of the royalty from MY sale and any FUTURE sales. (This royalty % is set when you originally create the NFT).

But for sure, somebody could definitely just upload the PDF of the NFT book the same way as anybody could upload an ebook or physical book right now. There's no protection to that.

But let's say that you now want to hold an event or giveaway. And the ticket to the event or giveaway is the NFT book. Well, now you can determine who currently owns the NFT book and grant access to only them. It doesn't matter whether a person pirated your NFT book because they don't actually "own" the NFT. The proof of ownership is on the blockchain and now you can ensure that the only people who have access to your event or giveaway or the current owners.

As time progresses, you'll be able to do more with NFTs and add more functionality to them and they'll have more utility.

Although it's great to buy an NFT. It's even better when that NFT has current and future utility. People will continue to hold onto the NFT if it has value to it. NFTs are a great way to start and grow a community.

That's the gist of it, at least.

Taking snapshots of current NFT holders is a pretty cool thing too. It's done a lot for determining who has access to pre-minting. Let's say 500 people own a fastlane book NFT on Dec 10, 2021. If you take a snapshot of those 500 people on Dec 10, 2021. You're able to say something like, for my next book or NFT, I'm giving purchasing priority to the 500 fastlane book NFT holders based on the snapshot which was taken on Dec 10, 2021.
 
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Arithen

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Question...

1) I write a new book.
2) I release as an NFT.
3) It sells for $20, about the average price of a book. I get twenty bucks.
4) One person owns it, and sells it to another person. I got a small royalty.
5) This happens 10 times. I get more royalties.
6) One of those buyers throws the book up on the torrents where 1,000,000 can download it illegally, just like a normal PDF.

IOW, what stops this book from ending up on the torrents and being stolen like every one of my other books?

And BTW, claiming that "You can track your NFT and who illegally posted it" is not a security feature. The end result is the same: I write a book that everyone steals for free on the torrents. At some point, the NFT has no value in being traded because the book has already been copied and stolen thousands of times.
You are absolutely correct. If you're releasing an NFT collection, and the collection offers nothing else other than the NFT itself, then the NFT is what is the value, not the project itself.

What many of the NFT drops promise isn't that you'll get a sweet NFT, transaction over, everything's done. What they offer is the promise that the creators of the NFT have plans for the funds acquired by the sale of the mint to bigger and better projects.

You could loosely relate it to a go-fund-me campaign. In Go-Fund-Me, people will throw money at you because they believe in your project. in some cases, you'll even give them an incentive to donate more (such as giving them a free T-shirt, or the first to receive the project you're funding for). In the NFT space, not only are people funding the project, they are all immediately getting something of potential value (the NFT). What NFT projects and go-fund-me campaigns largely differ in is exclusivity.

In some of the better NFT projects, their roadmap details what additional benefits you will have if you hold onto your NFT. This might be free merchandise (in the case of the Adidas NFT), or if the NFT project is about creating some kind of platform they may allow NFT holders to be content creators (and non-NFT holders aren't allowed), It could be your pass to play an alpha of a game, or the NFT could actually be the character of a game. the list goes on.

One NFT (The Bored Ape Yaught Club, which the lowest NFT price is currently nearly $200,000) threw an actual party on a Yaught for all of its members, which included a ton of big-name celebrities, and a comedy show by Chris Rock.

There are often huge benefits to holding an NFT of a major NFT drop. One of the most common benefits is to be allowed on the whitelist for the next NFT drop collection's pre-sale. In a major NFT project, this could be an easy way to 2x-10x your investment in one day, simply because you are guaranteed a spot to buy if you choose, before the public (which means lower gas fees), and you can list the NFT for sale before the public if you'd like.

But, if you just release a collection with no additional promises or what have you, there really isn't much of an incentive to buy. (unless, of course, you're already a celebrity/well-known artist/writer of some sort).

EDIT: I should also include that not all NFT's are about collections, as has been mentioned in this thread a number of times. However, when speaking of collections specifically, the above info tends to be the case for many projects that are worth looking into.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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But… If you do it the NFT route, then you could have a verifiable book as original and the community could see that you indeed own it.

The seems just like clever wordsmithing to me. If someone buys the book from Amazon, they also have an "original" and "the community" can see you own book... it all just seems like a bunch of flimsy value skew that really isn't skew at all.

I find there is negligible value skew for the buyer, and more so, for me. Financially speaking, I'd be better off selling 100,000 books on Amazon VS selling an NFT for $100 that transfers ownership 50 times because ultimately, it will be stolen anyway.

The bottomline is, I see no benefit to the arrangement as it limits my work to a few people. Worse, I get no protection from copyright theft which ultimately occurs on every book I write. I'm still not convinced we're operating in Greater Fool market.

You're right, somebody could definitely upload the e-book to a torrenting website.

Somebody can buy a physical copy of your book right now, scan each page, stitch it all together and upload that to a torrenting website.

The thing is as the NFT creator, you're able to determine the royalties on this book. Let's say I purchase your physical book and you get some profit from that. Well typically, that's where it ends for you. We exchanged value. I got the book and you got the $$$. When I resell the physical book, you're not going to get anything from it.

But let's say that instead, I bought your NFT book and you get some profit from that. But that's not where it ends. When I resell the NFT book, you're able to receive a set % of the royalty from MY sale and any FUTURE sales. (This royalty % is set when you originally create the NFT).

But for sure, somebody could definitely just upload the PDF of the NFT book the same way as anybody could upload an ebook or physical book right now. There's no protection to that.

But let's say that you now want to hold an event or giveaway. And the ticket to the event or giveaway is the NFT book. Well, now you can determine who currently owns the NFT book and grant access to only them. It doesn't matter whether a person pirated your NFT book because they don't actually "own" the NFT. The proof of ownership is on the blockchain and now you can ensure that the only people who have access to your event or giveaway or the current owners.

As time progresses, you'll be able to do more with NFTs and add more functionality to them and they'll have more utility.

Although it's great to buy an NFT. It's even better when that NFT has current and future utility. People will continue to hold onto the NFT if it has value to it. NFTs are a great way to start and grow a community.

That's the gist of it, at least.

Taking snapshots of current NFT holders is a pretty cool thing too. It's done a lot for determining who has access to pre-minting. Let's say 500 people own a fastlane book NFT on Dec 10, 2021. If you take a snapshot of those 500 people on Dec 10, 2021. You're able to say something like, for my next book or NFT, I'm giving purchasing priority to the 500 fastlane book NFT holders based on the snapshot which was taken on Dec 10, 2021.

Thank you, this definitely adds intrigue and value, but I still doesn't constrain supply. That's the problem with this. If someone wants my book, they buy or steal it. Under the NFT ecosystem, that remains the same, just that buying it becomes more difficult, and more expensive, royalty or not. And when a $15 book is suddenly a $500 NFT through resale, the torrent thefts will only become more predominant.

You are absolutely correct. If you're releasing an NFT collection, and the collection offers nothing else other than the NFT itself, then the NFT is what is the value, not the project itself.

What many of the NFT drops promise isn't that you'll get a sweet NFT, transaction over, everything's done. What they offer is the promise that the creators of the NFT have plans for the funds acquired by the sale of the mint to bigger and better projects.

You could loosely relate it to a go-fund-me campaign. In Go-Fund-Me, people will throw money at you because they believe in your project. in some cases, you'll even give them an incentive to donate more (such as giving them a free T-shirt, or the first to receive the project you're funding for). In the NFT space, not only are people funding the project, they are all immediately getting something of potential value (the NFT). What NFT projects and go-fund-me campaigns largely differ in is exclusivity.

In some of the better NFT projects, their roadmap details what additional benefits you will have if you hold onto your NFT. This might be free merchandise (in the case of the Adidas NFT), or if the NFT project is about creating some kind of platform they may allow NFT holders to be content creators (and non-NFT holders aren't allowed), It could be your pass to play an alpha of a game, or the NFT could actually be the character of a game. the list goes on.

One NFT (The Bored Ape Yaught Club, which the lowest NFT price is currently nearly $200,000) threw an actual party on a Yaught for all of its members, which included a ton of big-name celebrities, and a comedy show by Chris Rock.

There are often huge benefits to holding an NFT of a major NFT drop. One of the most common benefits is to be allowed on the whitelist for the next NFT drop collection's pre-sale. In a major NFT project, this could be an easy way to 2x-10x your investment in one day, simply because you are guaranteed a spot to buy if you choose, before the public (which means lower gas fees), and you can list the NFT for sale before the public if you'd like.

But, if you just release a collection with no additional promises or what have you, there really isn't much of an incentive to buy. (unless, of course, you're already a celebrity/well-known artist/writer of some sort)

OK, this makes some sense. So my NFT (a book) which will also have to include some private party at my home once per year. This adds to the "project".
 
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So my NFT (a book) which will also have to include some private party at my home once per year. This adds to the "project".
Currently members show the “I’ve read the book” badges because they reply to a thread. Could an NFT help automate the process of attaining the badge, and could badge wearers access additional areas/content in the forum?
 

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The seems just like clever wordsmithing to me. If someone buys the book from Amazon, they also have an "original" and "the community" can see you own book... it all just seems like a bunch of flimsy value skew that really isn't skew at all.

I find there is negligible value skew for the buyer, and more so, for me. Financially speaking, I'd be better off selling 100,000 books on Amazon VS selling an NFT for $100 that transfers ownership 50 times because ultimately, it will be stolen anyway.

The bottomline is, I see no benefit to the arrangement as it limits my work to a few people. Worse, I get no protection from copyright theft which ultimately occurs on every book I write. I'm still not convinced we're operating in Greater Fool market.

I sort of agree with this. Smart contracts, DeFi, Metaverse real estate.....I can get behind all that. NFTS just smell a bit like Dutch tulips to me. I'm really trying to understand the value, if there really is any. The fact that the subject has to be broken down and explained WHY it is valuable says a lot to me. Perhaps if NFT's become digital deeds for our cars and real estate, among other things.

I found a video that really kind of broke down what NFT's are and why they are so valuable, so I might have to rethink all this.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9O7mipu0n8
 

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The seems just like clever wordsmithing to me. If someone buys the book from Amazon, they also have an "original" and "the community" can see you own book... it all just seems like a bunch of flimsy value skew that really isn't skew at all.

I find there is negligible value skew for the buyer, and more so, for me. Financially speaking, I'd be better off selling 100,000 books on Amazon VS selling an NFT for $100 that transfers ownership 50 times because ultimately, it will be stolen anyway.

The bottomline is, I see no benefit to the arrangement as it limits my work to a few people. Worse, I get no protection from copyright theft which ultimately occurs on every book I write. I'm still not convinced we're operating in Greater Fool market.

I feel you are 80% correct and 20% incorrect with the above. When I buy a book on Amazon, I don't feel like I own anything. Can I gift it to my friend? No. Do I really own it then? No.

The value of having an "original" book is in the eye of the owner. But piracy is the real problem indeed. For example, there is an artist who created NFTs for paintings he made. Eventually people would copy the image (like .jpeg format), mint their own NFT and sell it.

Blockchain is so new that it's a wild-wild west. Too much fraud and theft going on at the moment. Scams are everywhere on crypto and no, you can't call your bank to trace it or get your money back.

Bottom line, I agree with you at this time. The Value Skew isn't yet that valuable. What excites me is the future benefits that have not yet been invented.
 
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biggeemac

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Blockchain is so new that it's a wild-wild west. Too much fraud and theft going on at the moment. Scams are everywhere on crypto and no, you can't call your bank to trace it or get your money back.
For what its worth, the blockchain only recently (last couple of years) started showing that it has real value with Defi and smart contracts coming online. Before that, much of the crypto space looked a lot like NFT's do today. Perhaps they will mature to the point that their value doesn't really need any explaination.
 

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OK, this makes some sense. So my NFT (a book) which will also have to include some private party at my home once per year. This adds to the "project".

Haha, yeah, essentially.

There are, of course, NFT collections that are purely sold as collections, as I mentioned; in this case, an investor would be investing in the person themselves.

But, from what I've experienced, that majority of NFT collections act simply as the 'shares' of the company.

I saw a very good tweet at one point with the following comparisons:

NFT Terms |-|Traditional Investment terms
Project |-----| Company
Creator |-----|Founder
DAO |--------|Management
Collector |----| Shareholder
NFT |--------|Shares
Jpeg |--------| Stock certificate
Roadmap |---| Product
Community |-| Marketing
Royalties |----| Revenue

Didn't know how to make a graph more readable, sorry, haha.
Token = Dividend
 
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MTF

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When I buy a book on Amazon, I don't feel like I own anything. Can I gift it to my friend? No. Do I really own it then? No.

To add to this point...

You don't own a Kindle book you buy on Amazon. As per their terms, in reality it's only licensed. With NFTs you are the owner, it's always verifiable, and there's no "CEO" of NFTs to take it back from you.

@MJ DeMarco:


This is what NFTs solve as well. You actually get to buy and own a digital file, not merely be allowed by Amazon to rent it by clicking "buy".

Obviously print books are different but these, while not going away, aren't the first format choice for most people.

As for your thoughts about piracy and stuff, this makes no difference whether it's a Kindle book or an NFT. Also, for the time being I wouldn't think of NFTs as an alternative to "traditional" selling. It's more like a new income stream, currently best for collectors and just as an additional way for people to show you support.
 
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Over the next week, I'll spend time learning to create ERC-721 NFTs. Once I have a process down, I plan to start building these into everything I offer going forward whether it is physical products, digital products, or even freelance client services. I'll give them away free with a royalty attached for resell, and start to determine how NFTs can impact the totality of my income ecosystem. I believe we're still early enough that several things can happen from this:

1. Sets a foundation for growth
If NFTs become as big as I see them becoming, then learning to create and use them now will be much better than stumbling through the process later on during the real gold rush.

2. Media attention
Smaller brands that offer NFTs as part of their customer experience will stand out, which makes them worthy of media attention and publicity because of the newness. It will be easy to attract media attention at all levels.

3. Word-of-mouth
When customers discover their NFT, they'll suddenly own something that they may not know anything about. They've heard the word, but it means nothing to them. So they'll do some digging and they'll go just deep enough to see talk of NFTs selling for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now they own one. They feel special. Feels like they just opened the candy bar wrapper to a golden ticket (and maybe they did). That's worth telling people about.

4. Increased perceived value
The NFTs you create may be worth nothing right now, but the customer doesn't know that. They don't know wtf they have, and honestly, neither do you because you don't know where you will be in 5 years or 10 years. But imagine if you got free scratch-off lottery tickets with every toilet paper purchase. You might want to buy more of that brand of toilet paper than another brand that doesn't give you any shot at a payoff.

5. Past NFT ownership matters
Since ownership of NFTs is tracked, if your NFT ends up in the hands of a celebrity or huge influencer, then the value of that NFT instantly should skyrocket. If you are a freelancer, and you create an NFT and gift it to your celebrity client, then you've potentially just gifted yourself a very big payoff at some future date in the form of royalties.

There are probably many more benefits to doing this now that I am not yet thinking of. There's also the possibility that it won't payoff at all and maybe I'm just full of shit. Either way, I'm going to find out.
 

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The seems just like clever wordsmithing to me. If someone buys the book from Amazon, they also have an "original" and "the community" can see you own book... it all just seems like a bunch of flimsy value skew that really isn't skew at all.

I find there is negligible value skew for the buyer, and more so, for me. Financially speaking, I'd be better off selling 100,000 books on Amazon VS selling an NFT for $100 that transfers ownership 50 times because ultimately, it will be stolen anyway.

The bottomline is, I see no benefit to the arrangement as it limits my work to a few people. Worse, I get no protection from copyright theft which ultimately occurs on every book I write. I'm still not convinced we're operating in Greater Fool market.



Thank you, this definitely adds intrigue and value, but I still doesn't constrain supply. That's the problem with this. If someone wants my book, they buy or steal it. Under the NFT ecosystem, that remains the same, just that buying it becomes more difficult, and more expensive, royalty or not. And when a $15 book is suddenly a $500 NFT through resale, the torrent thefts will only become more predominant.



OK, this makes some sense. So my NFT (a book) which will also have to include some private party at my home once per year. This adds to the "project".

I wrote an example a few months back, exploring a fictional scenario for you. My perspective has become more clear since, but it's still a fun read. Afterwards I'll walk you through how I'm thinking about NFTs today.

The same way you make money with anything in life - deliver value to people.

The main advantages in THIS economy vs traditional marketplaces is you have pure ownership of your data, your interactions are uncensorable and transparent, and you have a direct line of communication between merchant-customer.

If you were previously not delivering any value - wrapping a shit idea into an NFT will still result in shit earnings potential. But if you deliver real value - the benefactors of this value can participate in the success of the project. If it's an art project for example - there's secondary marketplaces for your buyers to resell and effectively become promoters of the project.

Fictional Example: @MJ DeMarco creates his newest book called "How to break free from tyranny" and creates limited editions of this book in the form of an NFT. FLF fanboys purchase this new NFT and receive the value contained within the information that is shared.

If anybody else wishes to know what's written in this book - their only route is to obtain this NFT version of the book on the secondary marketplace. The more people want to read the book - the more the current holders of this book can earn by reselling on the secondary marketplace. Oh and MJ collects a royalty off of any further transaction.

Say I read this book and got immense value - I can brag about all I've learned and how much this book has changed my life. This promotion is not only good for MJ, but it is especially good for me - because if someone now wants access they have to get this special access from me personally - and I'm now in a position to command whatever I want in order to transfer my rights to this knowledge to someone else.

In this process - MJ benefits from an army of shillers/promoters of his content, without himself having to shove his book down people's throats.

Now say MJ decides to host a new summit - but only people that hold the current NFT are eligible to attend this conference. This further drives the value of the NFT. And any additional input into MJ's brand can have loyalty to the original NFT holders as a baseline. You can see that the "brand" becomes win and let win. Not only does MJ win - but anybody that believed in MJ's brand also wins.

First I'd like to point that the properties you gain from using NFTs are not for copyright protection. But that's a universal problem with digital content, even your sales on Amazon or elsewhere, if digital in format, are subject to being uploaded on decentralized storage solutions and pirated.

Before we go any further, I'd like us to reframe our perspective around NFTs and think about them from another angle. Let's think in terms of contracts, or better yet interoperable capsules. These capsules can contain information, but they're also programs. Meaning upon interacting with these capsules, your customers can execute a pre-programmed set of interactions. This is an important understanding as it opens up doors to ideas that haven't been fully explored.

Next, in the context for a business solution, I like to think about NFTs as a marketing/sales channel. I'll describe the properties you inherit with crypto rails as one of your sales channels, and then I'll try to wrap some of them up into an example scenario so we can explore how it might come together.

1) Your email list can be thought of as a wallet list: This has profound implications so I'll start with this. Wallets are the ID you will be using to connect with your customers. They're important because they can be used to fetch a social/economic graph of your users behavior as all their interactions are stored on public ledgers. This can be be valuable for marketing. This also means your users' contract engagement history can be used in your programming of your custom capsule's properties/behavior.

2) Interoperable information/program capsules: The wallets contain capsules that are interoperable with various file formats across the web, but also money formats. This means you form a direct relationship with your customers, and the basis of this communication is also a payment channel. This makes your monetization of digital property customizable but also direct merchant-consumer.

3) Partnerships: Because your capsules are interoperable with capsules deployed by other users, you can streamline all kinds of partnerships with other projects and people globally.

4) Programmatic behavior: the capsules you write can contain static information, but can also be programmed to perform a certain function.

Now let's consider a scenario, and we can use your brand as an example.

You establish a connection with your customers via these capsules. Leaping from web2 to web3, you use your existing communication channels to fetch customers' public addresses. You incentivize them by offering them free premium content. You take some content, similar to how you did your $1 few-pager a while back, you wrap it into a smart-contract, and distribute them to your users.

Once this is established, you can send your customers other content or programmatic capsules directly to their wallet. This is similar to your newsletter. After a few have been distributed, you can begin to incentivize participation into your newsletter by distributing content that is only accessible if you own a certain capsule already. This can bring demand for the existing capsules that are out there and raise their perceived value.

Each capsule you distribute to your customers is akin to the collection of items in a game. With certain items, certain features or perks of the game become available to them. So by owning a "Summit Attendee", "Epic Contributor", "INSIDERS" capsules, your acccess to MJ's brand and content can be gamified differently. Some of these capsules, by the way, can be constructed in such a way that they are not tradeable. Again, think of them as programs.

After establishing a connection with your users on these rails, you can offer your upcoming products as "NFT" sales. These sales can have tokenized behavior. So say you allow a batch of 500,000 mints to be done. Whoever buys this NFT can also be incentivized to promote your sales. If they buy one of your capsules, you can pre-program them in such a way that if one of their friends, say a wallet address they have previously interacted with, also buys your capsule, your marketing treasury capsule can automatically send a $5 reward capsule to this person's wallet. Next, as you host a new summit, the set of wallet addresses or customers that verifiably own certain sets of your capsules can be treated differently. If you bought all 3 of the last drops within 1 day of them being on the market, you are rewarded with a dinner with MJ. If your wallet transaction history shows you've interacted with other FLF member's wallet addresses, you can be rewarded with additional content or privilege or insight or XYZ value you want to assign so as to reward community engagement.

As your brand grows, and the number of capsules/programs you've distributed spreads, you can create evermore sets of creative social/economic behaviors that can be automated.

As you can see, royalties are another type of pre-programmed economic incentive trigger. The underlying property that enables such a behavior is the programmability of these capsules with which much broader and more creative sets of automated social/economic activity can be gamified.

This is just one perspective. The possibilities for these communication channels are only constrained by our ability to imagine what can be done with them. I've continuously encouraged users here to engage with the ideas and collaborate around what can be done. I think this thread has done a good job at getting different people to throw darts at the board. The more we hack at it together, the more clearly we will begin to understand and appreciate how we can leverage these technologies to empower our businesses and our customers.
 

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I found an ENS domain that I like on OpenSea. There is no "offer now" button and no way to contact the owner that I can see. Is there some technical way to send a message to owners? Any suggestions? Thanks.
 
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newzzy2

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As for your thoughts about piracy and stuff, this makes no difference whether it's a Kindle book or an NFT. Also, for the time being I wouldn't think of NFTs as an alternative to "traditional" selling. It's more like a new income stream, currently best for collectors and just as an additional way for people to show you support.

A lot of people started making collections from those NFT assets, and it's kinda wise decisions. I know couple of truly nice web resources, for example like this exact one, called TopNFTCollections.com where my brother-in-law was getting few NFT collections while they were not so expensive. Time to time I think about getting couple of NFT collections as well.
 
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biophase

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The seems just like clever wordsmithing to me. If someone buys the book from Amazon, they also have an "original" and "the community" can see you own book... it all just seems like a bunch of flimsy value skew that really isn't skew at all.

I find there is negligible value skew for the buyer, and more so, for me. Financially speaking, I'd be better off selling 100,000 books on Amazon VS selling an NFT for $100 that transfers ownership 50 times because ultimately, it will be stolen anyway.

The bottomline is, I see no benefit to the arrangement as it limits my work to a few people. Worse, I get no protection from copyright theft which ultimately occurs on every book I write. I'm still not convinced we're operating in Greater Fool market.



Thank you, this definitely adds intrigue and value, but I still doesn't constrain supply. That's the problem with this. If someone wants my book, they buy or steal it. Under the NFT ecosystem, that remains the same, just that buying it becomes more difficult, and more expensive, royalty or not. And when a $15 book is suddenly a $500 NFT through resale, the torrent thefts will only become more predominant.



OK, this makes some sense. So my NFT (a book) which will also have to include some private party at my home once per year. This adds to the "project".
The way I currently view NFTs is more like a membership program. I’ve been toying with launching one of these for my business. And it would go something like this. You would buy a piece of minted jpg from my company for let’s say $500.

The benefit of this of holding this piece of art in your wallet is that you will get one of our products sent to you every month for the next 10 years.

If somebody does the math, they will see that that equals 120 items which would imply a cost of about $4 per item. Of course we would be shipping items worth anywhere from $15-$100 to them. What this would do would drive the value of these NFTs up.

As somebody else mentioned, the actual JPEG is not worth anything. The value comes from belonging to a club that has a limited membership.

Imagine if you sold an NFT platinum edition of your first book and limited to 1000. And then six months later you tell everybody that whoever bought your NFT gets a copy of all the books you write delivered automatically into their wallet for life.

Imagine what the demand for the NFT platinum edition for your second book would be like.

Then imagine that you announce that anybody who has the NFT platinum edition of both of your books is automatically invited to your Fastlane yacht party.

Then your fans who have read your books, whether they paid for them legitimately or pirated them have no other choice but to try to purchase these two special NFTs to get to your party.
 

Eevo

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Instead of selling the book as an NFT, how about selling NFTs alongside the book's release?

An X number of NFTs - of which the designs would coincide with the book/The Fastlane - would be made available on the day the book is released.

If purchased, the NFT owner would receive the following:
  • Ownership of the MJ DeMarco NFT
  • A copy of the book - they can choose either physical or digital
  • Lifetime INSIDERS access
  • Lifetime access to any Fastlane events
  • Special badge on the forum
  • Access to an exclusive Fastlane Discord chat with MJ
This way, MJ could avoid the hesitations that he has about selling the book as an NFT. The book can continue selling through his typical avenues. However, he could bring more NFT enthusiasts into the Fastlane community, create a greater reach with his productocracy, and create another money tree with the NFT royalties. Plus, the NFT owners would receive community benefits fairly relevant to what they might expect from being an involved with an NFT project.

I'm still learning about NFTs as well, so how would this be as a model?
 
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MTF

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@AceVentures can all these "programs" be set up through OpenSea or whatever or do you actually have to be able to program it yourself? For example, can I easily set up my NFT to give people access to all my future products through some kind of integration with my e-learning platform or would this just work as a newsletter list that I can send my buyers links to my stuff?

As for the list of public wallets, what if people stop using them? Because if I understand it correctly, you can create a new address just to buy something and then move it elsewhere to protect your privacy a bit more?
 

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I found an ENS domain that I like on OpenSea. There is no "offer now" button and no way to contact the owner that I can see. Is there some technical way to send a message to owners? Any suggestions? Thanks.

So, technically you cannot contact someone on OpenSea. But if there is a will, there is a way, right?

I found a work around and want to share with the rest of you guys if you ever are in my position:
  1. Create an image that contains the message you want to send with a way to be contacted back “Hey I need to talk to you, DM me on twitter on @ whatever
  2. Mint that image on your opensea account. Your image is now an NFT
  3. Transfer it for free (gift it) to the account you wish to contact
  4. The image with the message will show in his gallery
  5. Watch the magic
 

MJ DeMarco

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So, technically you cannot contact someone on OpenSea. But if there is a will, there is a way, right?

I found a work around and want to share with the rest of you guys if you ever are in my position:
  1. Create an image that contains the message you want to send with a way to be contacted back “Hey I need to talk to you, DM me on twitter on @ whatever
  2. Mint that image on your opensea account. Your image is now an NFT
  3. Transfer it for free (gift it) to the account you wish to contact
  4. The image with the message will show in his gallery
  5. Watch the magic

Wow, and just think of the old days when you could just send an email.

The way I currently view NFTs is more like a membership program. I’ve been toying with launching one of these for my business. And it would go something like this. You would buy a piece of minted jpg from my company for let’s say $500.

The benefit of this of holding this piece of art in your wallet is that you will get one of our products sent to you every month for the next 10 years.

If somebody does the math, they will see that that equals 120 items which would imply a cost of about $4 per item. Of course we would be shipping items worth anywhere from $15-$100 to them. What this would do would drive the value of these NFTs up.

As somebody else mentioned, the actual JPEG is not worth anything. The value comes from belonging to a club that has a limited membership.

Imagine if you sold an NFT platinum edition of your first book and limited to 1000. And then six months later you tell everybody that whoever bought your NFT gets a copy of all the books you write delivered automatically into their wallet for life.

Imagine what the demand for the NFT platinum edition for your second book would be like.

Then imagine that you announce that anybody who has the NFT platinum edition of both of your books is automatically invited to your Fastlane yacht party.

Then your fans who have read your books, whether they paid for them legitimately or pirated them have no other choice but to try to purchase these two special NFTs to get to your party.

Instead of selling the book as an NFT, how about selling NFTs alongside the book's release?

An X number of NFTs - of which the designs would coincide with the book/The Fastlane - would be made available on the day the book is released.

If purchased, the NFT owner would receive the following:
  • Ownership of the MJ DeMarco NFT
  • A copy of the book - they can choose either physical or digital
  • Lifetime INSIDERS access
  • Lifetime access to any Fastlane events
  • Special badge on the forum
  • Access to an exclusive Fastlane Discord chat with MJ
This way, MJ could avoid the hesitations that he has about selling the book as an NFT. The book can continue selling through his typical avenues. However, he could bring more NFT enthusiasts into the Fastlane community, create a greater reach with his productocracy, and create another money tree with the NFT royalties. Plus, the NFT owners would receive community benefits fairly relevant to what they might expect from being an involved with an NFT project.

I'm still learning about NFTs as well, so how would this be as a model?

OK, but I still don't hear anything special. It sounds like a limited membership program (which I could have done at anytime in the last ten years) with the only difference is the membership can be resold, and when it is, I can get a royalty on the transaction. It doesn't surprise me that big corporations are jumping on this as it is simply the "Supreme limited drops" business model.

Unless I'm missing something, I still don't see anything revolutionary that justifies the hype.
 
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Antifragile

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Wow, and just think of the old days when you could just send an email.

MJ, the key here is that spamming is very hard to do with this method. It cost me $56USD in gas fees on ETH blockchain to send that message! How many spammers are willing to do that?

Also note that to mint a new NFT and list it for sale also costs gas fees. These can be prohibitive and today when I tried to list a photo for sale, it would have cost me ~$300USD.

Lots of items for sale were minted before the ETH price went up to current levels (10x or more) and so some items are still "cheap".

It's a fascinating world I am trying to understand better and see if it can plug in with my very old school business.
 

Lex DeVille

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I tried to list a photo for sale, it would have cost me ~$300USD.

If you did this on OpenSea then it doesn't have to cost anything. You can list a photo for sale for free using Polygon. However, you cannot put it up on auction, only as Buy it Now unless you create an ERC-721 token and load that on Polygon.
 

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To add to the above two posts: other blockchains have very low fees, such as Cardano and Solana. Ethereum is on its way to lowering theirs as well with their EIP-4488 update.

For those that don’t entirely grasp what gas fees are: in order to process a transaction (and some other actions) a fee is applied to cover the energy costs in adding the transaction to the blockchain, and processing it. This fee goes to the miners. When Ethereum is seeing more activity, these gas fees go up; recently, to outrageous proportions.

Some other blockchains had foreseen this activity/fee issue earlier in crypto currency-life, and have designed their blockchains with greater scalability and other features to prevent such radical fee inflations.
 
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If you had a 5000-10000 NFT collection and you wanted to sell these NFTs one by one; would you:

a) Put it out there for free on opensea via polygon
b) Wait for etherium gas fees to lower
c) Go to a less popular, but promising NFT marketplace on a blockchain such as Solana
d) Something else? Please explain.
 

msufan

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If you had a 5000-10000 NFT collection and you wanted to sell these NFTs one by one; would you:

a) Put it out there for free on opensea via polygon
b) Wait for etherium gas fees to lower
c) Go to a less popular, but promising NFT marketplace on a blockchain such as Solana
d) Something else? Please explain.
Is your goal to maximize profit? To get them sold as fast as possible? Something else?
 

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