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So WTF are NFTs all about? Buying JPGs? Why can't you just right-click save? Is this a giant ponzi? Far from it...

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mirabdolbaghi

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I looked into this project. God damnnn now that's a quality project... If I want to be at the bleeding edge of this game, I need to build up my assets and jump into Ethereum.

This is what happens when you have permissionless decentralized systems

Yes, this is how I feel too. Just unsure if there was technical solutions being built on Ethereum. With greater power to the consumer, comes greater responsibility. Blockchain allows provenance so I guess the answer is right there. Who created it first? Who copied who? All that is in the blockchain. I guess interoperability and communication between blockchain communities would stop, say, RTFKT being minted on Solana and becoming as popular as the original.
 
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AceVentures

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I guess interoperability and communication between blockchain communities would stop, say, RTFKT being minted on Solana and becoming as popular as the original.

People can mint an RTFKT jpg on Solana - but the value behind the NFT is not the JPG, but the contractual agreement between the maker and the taker, which happens with the real NFT that was issued by the brand.

How is this enforced? Well - for example, minting a CloneX for the pre-sale requires client to own at least 1 qualifying RTFKT NFT. When you go on their website to mint, their web3 app can take your ETH public address from MetaMask, fetch the associated information from the ETH network and enable functionality based on ownership of various assets. So if you own a fake RTFKT NFT, cool you got a JPG lookalike of the real thing, but all of the functionality of this asset is tied to the ERC721 smart-contract that was issued with the real thing. You can only mint, or perform the designed functionality, if you authenticate with the real thing.
 

mirabdolbaghi

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I was thinking more in tune to what Binance did with BSC which is copycat Ethereum. I believe they're going deflationary too soon. What if a project copycats RFTKT and becomes just as popular, you know what I mean? I guess the problem with that is you'll always be one step behind.
 

AceVentures

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I was thinking more in tune to what Binance did with BSC which is copycat Ethereum. I believe they're going deflationary too soon. What if a project copycats RFTKT and becomes just as popular, you know what I mean? I guess the problem with that is you'll always be one step behind.

I'm a fan of BSC - it has a churning economy right now and they built it by using opensource technology. People can talk shit about it all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that there is billions of dollars worth of value exchanging hands on that ecosystem every day.

There is a slight distinction to be made however: One is an opensource computing platform - the other is a brand.

If a brand manages to copy what RTFKT is doing, builds a community of loyal customers, and delivers quality products to them, then that's awesome for whoever participates with this new brand. It doesn't take away from RTFKT, if anything it brings attention to the fact that they're doing something worth copying.

Competition is good - it pushes innovation and creative thinking.
 
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mirabdolbaghi

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Amazing answer!

I am on BSC too. Great ecosystem and ApeSwap is growing to be one of my favorite coin.

Yea.... I'm still thinking in the old ways where ideas/brands/tech are held in a tight fist. The open and decentralized nature of blockchain encourages competition and innovation. We win in the end.

Unrelated but want to get your answer: do you know of the Curve wars? Been reading a little into it on rekt. Are there projects trying to do the same thing on other blockchains?
 

AceVentures

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Unrelated but want to get your answer: do you know of the Curve wars? Been reading a little into it on rekt. Are there projects trying to do the same thing on other blockchains?

Yes familiar with what Mochi tried to do - really interesting arbitrage mechanism. What's more interesting is the subsequent discussion around DAO authority and censorship on these decentralized protocols. It raises serious questions about the role of governance, distribution of power, and organizational structures.

Read this Vitalik blog post on coin voting and governance structures to get a more educated perspective on the existing voting mechanisms and potential solutions for democratic processes as this technology moves forward.

What's important to note is that smart-contracts come with great power and great responsibility. Most people are not ready for the consequences that arise when money is tied to code which can be arbitraged. You should aim to stay on top of exploits to better defend yourself and to secure your assets within smart-contracts you can understand and trust.
 

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Replace the word decentralization with censorship resistance and see if your arguments still hold.

"Nobody really cares about censorship resistance anyway"

If people wanted "cheap transactions" they could use PayPal and avoid dealing with blockchain constraints to begin with.



I don't want to distract from the topic of this discussion, but because the past few posts have been criticizing ETH I felt it was necessary to provide an informed take on the matter. News flash, if demand is so high that people are paying hundreds in fees to access blockspace, that means blockspace is incredibly valuable.

Demand is so high in fact, that the network can afford to pay for security AND there's enough left over to burn supply. ETH has been deflationary this month - meaning that the network burned more supply than issuance because demand was so high. Numbers below are from EIP1559 launch - so from early August till now ~$4B worth of ether was taken out of circulation.

View attachment 40747

Do not confuse scalability with throughput - "Solano" as someone called it in here, is inflating at a 99% annualized rate in order to subsidize the liquidity on their platform. Their throughput comes at the expense of "scalability" because cost of validating the network is outstanding. Also the security budget is not sustained by network demand - it is subsidized with imaginary money.

To understand scalability - one must recognize the tradeoffs that were made in early design principles to promote security. Scalability comes to ETH and EVMs in the form of modularity paired with ZK-rollups (zero knowledge). If you are unfamiliar with this, I strongly recommend you study up on the topic - there is a steamroller approaching and people that don't understand this breakthrough in cryptography will get flattened very soon.

How does this form of cryptography work in practice? A zk validator can receive L1 information, perform numerous computations at extremely high throughput, and provide a hash of the entire merkle-tree back to the L1. Data remains available to L1 at all times - thereby providing the security of the entire network - and compute costs/timing can drop dramatically.

ZK-rollups can do everything that another L1 can do - but better and faster. A single ZK-rollup can outperform anything that "Solano" can do - because in one case every tx needs to be echoed from one validator to every validator in the network, and in the case of zk-rollups, a single hash of the entire computation suffices to provide finality guarantee without flooding the network with data.

If anybody here wants faster throughput - look at Arbitrum, Optimism, Loopring, zkSync, Hermez, dydx, immutableX, and soon to drop StarkNet. This is how you can get extreme throughput while preserving security from a highly decentralized L1 network.

View attachment 40748

Why are NFTs stupid expensive on ETH? Because the blockspace is valuable - an immutable and censorship resistant database is the real moat, not the JPG.

There is a lot of noise in this space right now and it can be hard to keep up - but don't miss the forest for the trees.

An overview of Rollups

Lol, about halfway down your explanation I just hear white noise. You're probably making a really valid point, but to the average person once you start saying stuff like "validator" and "network rollout" and "throughput" and the like, they just zone out.

I'm sure you're right, you sound very knowledgeable, but I just don't have the head space to deal with it. I'll carry on buying bits of ETH the coin, but I can't afford to use their platform and Metamask is more buggy than an ant colony.

Thanks for the info though, I am grateful, just not technical :)
 
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gryfny

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It's not NFT's, but I didnt wanna create a whole new thread on this related subject. Just wanted to share this here, since I know there are lot's of americans on the board.

A DAO is buying a copy of the constituion, and you can join in. I'm no expert on the subject, but this sounds like a great idea. I might put a little ETH in.
 

Heal Piece

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Yes I do own NFTs. I personally hit the jackpot with RTFKT. Looking forward to minting their new CloneX project next week. Will let yall know if I get lucky with a rare mint.
I've been following this project for a while and really wanted in. Unfortunately I'm not a prior holder for the pre-sale, so hoping to get in on the public mint. It may end up being a bit too rich for my blood though if they come in near the top of their estimated range.
 
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zizou

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Hello I am 16 years old and have 500 euros in my pocket. Do you think I can make a profit with NFT without ever having invested but with a knowledge of the web3?
 

gryfny

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Hello I am 16 years old and have 500 euros in my pocket. Do you think I can make a profit with NFT without ever having invested but with a knowledge of the web3?
If you are lucky, yes. But with 500 euro you can buy 1, maybe 2. So it's hard to diversify among different projects.
 

gryfny

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It's not NFT's, but I didnt wanna create a whole new thread on this related subject. Just wanted to share this here, since I know there are lot's of americans on the board.

A DAO is buying a copy of the constituion, and you can join in. I'm no expert on the subject, but this sounds like a great idea. I might put a little ETH in.
So they didn't win the auction. You could get a refund for your contribution, which I did. However, the tokens you received for contributing are mooning like crazy. Up 40x now in 5 days. I am an idiot for refunding, but also I have no idea why it's up 40x.
 
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AceVentures

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Quick update: my investment in RTFKT paid out big time. This marks the end of my current NFT chapter and the beginning of my entry into the next step of the game.

Here's what happened:

So I had some of their NFTs, which qualified you to mint their upcoming CloneX project. Each qualifier gave access to 3 CloneX mints at a price of 0.05E. I spent about 7-8k on these qualifiers about 5-6months ago. 11,000 such clones would go to the qualifiers, and another 9000 or so to a public sale.

The pre-sale went live 2 days ago and I minted all my eligible clones, waiting for the reveal and the public sale. Here's where things get interesting.

They announced their public sale will be a Dutch auction with a starting price of 3E! The clones that were minted in pre-sale have been selling on the secondary marketplaces for about 3.7E, with people valuing them at slightly above what they should sell in the public sale. What's f*cky is that the current 2ndary prices are not too far off from the public sales 3E, and despite this small difference, there is not a plethora of demand on opensea.

Over the past 2 days, maybe ~400 clones have changed hands. This was especially worrisome for me, because the public sale set to go live today is expecting to sell ~9000 clones at a starting price of 3E. That's 27,000E or roughly $110MM dollars. In what f*cking world is a $100m sales target make any sense for ONE product, a set of 3D files?

Maybe their public sale will be a smashing success, but in my estimation it will be a catastrophic failure. They'd have had much more success onboarding more people into their ecosystem, but they opted to brand themselves as exclusive and in their own bubble thought they could sell their files for $100 frigging million dollars.

I sold all my clones and my qualifiers yesterday, making out with $250k in profit.

We will see today whether I made the right move or not, but I've been watching liquidity dry up on NFT collections really quickly, and I value E so so much more than the current version of NFTs.

NFTs, as they live with ERC721, are imo nothing more than a proof of concept. I don't believe any existing ERC721 will have lasting value, except for 0.001% of shit like maybe Punks or BAYC.

I was really hoping RTFKT might join that group of elites, but I very much doubt their ability to pull it off at this point. The reasoning is simple: misalignment with my values. I loved what they were building, but after learning that their new project would start at a 3E Dutch auction, I couldn't unsee the money grab they were going for.

I tried very hard last night to show people in the community that a $100M sales target is f*cking ludicrous. Nobody wanted to listen to me. Echo chamber of hopium.

I wish RTFKT and their community success, but I'm going to take my $250k and keep playing the web3 game, finding people and ideas that mesh with my values.

The moral of the story is: pay attention. There is money to be made and money to be lost. I'm thrilled with the success I achieved with this brand, but had I not been paying attention and asking questions, I might have been left holding a bag of illiquid JPGs instead of 250k.

All eyes on the public sale today: I was either very wrong and there will be tremendous demand, or a bunch of people will be left with a bag of JPGs with nobody to sell to.
 

msufan

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Quick update: my investment in RTFKT paid out big time. This marks the end of my current NFT chapter and the beginning of my entry into the next step of the game.

Here's what happened:

So I had some of their NFTs, which qualified you to mint their upcoming CloneX project. Each qualifier gave access to 3 CloneX mints at a price of 0.05E. I spent about 7-8k on these qualifiers about 5-6months ago. 11,000 such clones would go to the qualifiers, and another 9000 or so to a public sale.

The pre-sale went live 2 days ago and I minted all my eligible clones, waiting for the reveal and the public sale. Here's where things get interesting.

They announced their public sale will be a Dutch auction with a starting price of 3E! The clones that were minted in pre-sale have been selling on the secondary marketplaces for about 3.7E, with people valuing them at slightly above what they should sell in the public sale. What's f*cky is that the current 2ndary prices are not too far off from the public sales 3E, and despite this small difference, there is not a plethora of demand on opensea.

Over the past 2 days, maybe ~400 clones have changed hands. This was especially worrisome for me, because the public sale set to go live today is expecting to sell ~9000 clones at a starting price of 3E. That's 27,000E or roughly $110MM dollars. In what f*cking world is a $100m sales target make any sense for ONE product, a set of 3D files?

Maybe their public sale will be a smashing success, but in my estimation it will be a catastrophic failure. They'd have had much more success onboarding more people into their ecosystem, but they opted to brand themselves as exclusive and in their own bubble thought they could sell their files for $100 frigging million dollars.

I sold all my clones and my qualifiers yesterday, making out with $250k in profit.

We will see today whether I made the right move or not, but I've been watching liquidity dry up on NFT collections really quickly, and I value E so so much more than the current version of NFTs.

NFTs, as they live with ERC721, are imo nothing more than a proof of concept. I don't believe any existing ERC721 will have lasting value, except for 0.001% of shit like maybe Punks or BAYC.

I was really hoping RTFKT might join that group of elites, but I very much doubt their ability to pull it off at this point. The reasoning is simple: misalignment with my values. I loved what they were building, but after learning that their new project would start at a 3E Dutch auction, I couldn't unsee the money grab they were going for.

I tried very hard last night to show people in the community that a $100M sales target is f*cking ludicrous. Nobody wanted to listen to me. Echo chamber of hopium.

I wish RTFKT and their community success, but I'm going to take my $250k and keep playing the web3 game, finding people and ideas that mesh with my values.

The moral of the story is: pay attention. There is money to be made and money to be lost. I'm thrilled with the success I achieved with this brand, but had I not been paying attention and asking questions, I might have been left holding a bag of illiquid JPGs instead of 250k.

All eyes on the public sale today: I was either very wrong and there will be tremendous demand, or a bunch of people will be left with a bag of JPGs with nobody to sell to.
Now I'm hooked -- where can I best watch this public sale?

And congrats on your $250K. For anyone who says NFTs are worthless, that is a quarter of a million reasons why they are wrong. Great 40X on your investment in a short time frame.
 

msufan

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Now I'm hooked -- where can I best watch this public sale?

And congrats on your $250K. For anyone who says NFTs are worthless, that is a quarter of a million reasons why they are wrong. Great 40X on your investment in a short time frame.
Looks like you made the right call.

"Our website server is overloaded, please be patient and keep trying if you get errors, go to login page directly for public to skip the main website loading. We're in trying to make this smoother live"

"Due to our website still being attacked and unusable, We’re pausing the minting till when we’ll have all fixed and upgraded. Minting will start again tomorrow 10am PT Apologies for this fck up, we had way too many attacks RTFKT team"

"Discord will be back only tomorrow 8am PT, got hijacked by telegram trolls & FUDDers. Our mods are in EU, gonna let that sleep overnight and put it back on tomo, dw not going anywhere"

Maybe they should have listened to your advice...
 
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gryfny

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Yesterdat Budweiser launched an NFT. The sale was kinda odd, you had to go on their website and just pick one you liked. You could pay with creditcard, and it had a fixed gas fee (75usd). Because of this a lot of people had issues, multiple people buying the same NFT, and people not receiving anything at all. I was lucky and I got my can. Still a weird idea to pay 600 usd for a picture of a beer can. But the floor price is currently at 1800 usd so I think it was a good call. It is interesting to see big companies doing NFT's now.
 

hisamats

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Oh gee, I keep coming back to this thread thinking I need to learn sooo much more about this all! One of the most intriguing threads for me, but also a puzzling one.
 

Arithen

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Firstly, @AceVentures , I appreciate all your transparency and input with this thread. I've learned a massive amount and regret not have gotten into NFT's when I first learned about them early this year.

I'm very happy to learn that you were as successful as you are, and now have a much deeper understanding on why NFT's are worth what they are, and what they mean for the future in Web3.

I'm going to take my first steps and buy a couple NFT's over the course of the next few days, and I have big plans on starting my own large-scale generated art. Although my knowledge on the subject isn't as refined as yours, I have a good feeling our outlook on the future of this technology is very similar.

Here's hoping I can provide new value using and adapting this technology
 
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MTF

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This is hilarious. After a freediving session I was talking outside in front of the school with some guy about ways to make money as an author and mentioned that as new formats come along (such as NFTs), you can possibly take your content and adapt it into these new channels.

He started asking me various basic questions about NFTs (stuff I was also extremely apprehensive about, such as "why buy it if I can download a JPG"). Since I've done my homework I was able to answer all these questions in what I feel was a non-hypey "here's how it works" way.

Other people started listening as well and suddenly I became an NFT expert even though I know almost nothing about it LOL.

This only shows how early we're in this stuff and how little you need to know to know so much more than everyone else. If you dedicate a few dozen hours to it, you'll know more than almost everyone else in the world. When NFTs grow into new, everyday applications for regular people (like real estate, royalties, communities, etc.), you'll be far ahead.

I'll personally probably focus on NFTs for authors and/or artists in general as I think that they're so badly f*cked by big corporations that this can change their lives.
 

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This is hilarious. After a freediving session I was talking outside in front of the school with some guy about ways to make money as an author and mentioned that as new formats come along (such as NFTs), you can possibly take your content and adapt it into these new channels.

He started asking me various basic questions about NFTs (stuff I was also extremely apprehensive about, such as "why buy it if I can download a JPG"). Since I've done my homework I was able to answer all these questions in what I feel was a non-hypey "here's how it works" way.

Other people started listening as well and suddenly I became an NFT expert even though I know almost nothing about it LOL.

This only shows how early we're in this stuff and how little you need to know to know so much more than everyone else. If you dedicate a few dozen hours to it, you'll know more than almost everyone else in the world. When NFTs grow into new, everyday applications for regular people (like real estate, royalties, communities, etc.), you'll be far ahead.

I'll personally probably focus on NFTs for authors and/or artists in general as I think that they're so badly f*cked by big corporations that this can change their lives.

Was talking about this with @Andy Black this morning. Strange coincidence that you shared this on the same day.

A new era of gurus is being born.

At the local level, virtually anyone could start up a blockchain/crypto/nft education business.

I'm starting to think about the different roles NFT can play at all levels.

I like the idea that as more people come on board, I can bet on human potential. I can stake money on a musician I think will take off in the future. Or perhaps I can put money on the next Elon Musk before their true genius is realized. Then, because I own a piece of that, I am incentivized to promote that person - to get their name out there and to help them grow in any way possible because my profit depends on their success.

This also makes it seem like, in addition to betting on infrastructure, and instead of guessing about which NFTs will be winners, it would be smart to build your own communities and brands and to start creating your own NFTs to sell rather than to buy. In other words, betting on yourself and your own potential.

I'm also pondering what other ways NFTs will eventually come into play at the local level. Here in Joplin, MO, how will people use this? What will they do with it? We're a small town of around 50,000. So as this picks up, where are the opportunities within small businesses and how do small towns merge the world of NFT into mundane life? Not asking so others can tell me (but feel free if you want to). Just questions I'm pondering as I start to explore this world.
 

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Corpos getting into NFTs and cleaning up. People claiming this is necessary for adoption, other people myself included think this leads to more corpo nft's, and same old oligopoly down the line. That said what Lex and MTF are saying are interesting, I'm curious to learn more about what possibilities you see outside of selling pics and merch.
 
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Corpos getting into NFTs and cleaning up. People claiming this is necessary for adoption, other people myself included think this leads to more corpo nft's, and same old oligopoly down the line. That said what Lex and MTF are saying are interesting, I'm curious to learn more about what possibilities you see outside of selling pics and merch.

Merch
Merch is the first one I'm looking at. I'm playing a bit in the ecom space. Going into next year, my products will come with NFTs. This won't mean much at the start, but it will be a free benefit to customers, and if the brand grows more successful, then that free benefit could end up paying the customer back beyond their initial purchase. I see this creating a circular effect that can strengthen brand identity by leaps and bounds. It also strengthens the community over time and should create a sub-market within the brand where customers buy and sell the NFTs for different reasons.

Ultimately, this follows the process I intended to create with my failed candle brand a few years ago. The initial purchase gets you in the door, and that purchase opens you up to an INSIDERS world of products/services that the public never sees.

Human Potential
Imagine if @Kak sold a KILL BIGGER NFT. He puts it on auction and prices it low. Those of us familiar with Kak and what he is capable of bid on that NFT based on where we think he is going. Someone snatches it for $3 in ETH. Kak likes money, so he put a royalty on the NFT. Every time someone resells the NFT in the future, Kak gets 10-20%. Now Kak minds his business. His radio show takes over the planet. Everybody in the world knows who he is, so now that $3 NFT is worth $2,000,000 because it is a collectible. I don't think most bets will pan out like this, but the opportunity is there, and smart people will make smart bets.

Memberships & Rewards Clubs
These were discussed a bit earlier in the thread. You can manage memberships with NFTs where you only grant access to those who have one. This could be online or offline. Purchase an NFT for access to a concert, festival, monster truck rally etc. Or use NFT to identify different user groups. Person Y has GOLD tier NFT. Person Z has PLATINUM tier NFT.

Charity
NFTs can be given away as rewards and prizes. Whoever receives the NFT could do what they want with it. Keep it. Sell it. If the Charity added a royalty, then the charity will earn money each time it is resold into the future.

Bartering?
NFTs should be useful as a trading system whether for digital or physical products. I imagine entire communities will sprout up around this like how Facebook has groups of people looking to buy and sell things. Instead of trading a crotch rocket for a 90's Jeep, maybe you put up a valuable NFT that you bought for pennies a while back, but is now worth something.

Serial Numbers / Identification?
Is there a way NFTs might replace serial numbers to help with the problems of identifying stolen goods? Can they be used for other identification purposes?

Gamification
Be the first caller to correctly identify the name of Santa's 3rd reindeer and win an NFT prize. Be the first person to respond to this question to unlock an NFT for early access to the next week's podcast episode. Maybe the NFT turns out to be a lost chapter of an ebook story. Maybe it is a clue that brings you closer to solving something. Maybe the NFT reveals something as a JPG image that isn't told in a story. I don't know.

These are the ways that stand out to me as potential uses for NFT:

- Flipping
- Trading
- Access Control
- Identification / Attribution
- Betting
- Currency
- Charity
- Product/Service Value Skew
- Royalties
- Gamification

Maybe there are more ways I am not thinking of though.
 

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How about real estate? What’s the play there?

Let’s keep these ideas flowing.
 

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Lex DeVille

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@Lex DeVille

How about real estate? What’s the play there?

Let’s keep these ideas flowing.

I don't know much about real-estate, but a few thoughts that come to mind:

- Negotiation tool (in the same way you might barter closing costs)

- Access control for rentals, gyms, community pool

- Perk for homebuyer using X realtor over Y realtor (and a way for realtors to increase commission over time through royalties)

- Access pass for parking

- Bonus for referrals

- Closing gifts

- A way to build hype around a property in attempt to increase perceived value.

- Discount perks at local businesses for people who buy through X person or business over Y.
 

Kak

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Imagine if @Kak sold a KILL BIGGER NFT. He puts it on auction and prices it low. Those of us familiar with Kak and what he is capable of bid on that NFT based on where we think he is going. Someone snatches it for $3 in ETH. Kak likes money, so he put a royalty on the NFT. Every time someone resells the NFT in the future, Kak gets 10-20%. Now Kak minds his business. His radio show takes over the planet. Everybody in the world knows who he is, so now that $3 NFT is worth $2,000,000 because it is a collectible. I don't think most bets will pan out like this, but the opportunity is there, and smart people will make smart bets.

I might have to look into this. It’s like the equivalent of my radio rookie card.

30% royalty though. :rofl:
 

Antifragile

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I might have to look into this. It’s like the equivalent of my radio rookie card.

30% royalty though. :rofl:
30%?
And the rich get richer!
Damn capitalist!




:rofl:
 
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MTF

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Andy Black

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I’ve heard folks talking about smart contracts for Real Estate where a seller would get a % of all future sales.
Aha.. I think it was from this podcast I linked to on page 1?
I don’t understand NFTs, but thought this was interesting:

 

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