Significant Change to Upwork coming in May 2019... “Pay to Bid”

[MJ DeMarco]

Towel squeezing underway...

I expect nothing less from a company that recently went public. Gotta meet those Wall Street consensus earning estimates!!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I start to get the feeling that whenever a company goes public it basically means you can copy their business and focus on the customer, since they just switched the focus to the investors.

I wrote about this in Unscripted , it's basically stakeholder demotion. Wherever a public company has its #1 Stakeholder as Wall Street and shareholders, it's an opportunity for companies who have the CUSTOMER as the #1 stakeholder.

Example after example exists of public companies who grow like weeds because they are client centered. Then they go public and become shareholder-centered, dropping the very concept that caused them to grow in the first place. It sucks, but such is life and it is always an opportunity for a small, customer-centric company to rise up.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I wonder if they'll still set profiles to private after a month when they haven't picked up new gigs. That way you're forced to bid from time to time to keep money rolling in for them

 

[Deleted50669]

The perils of having no control

 

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[Choate]

You read that right. You will now have to pay $0.15 per Connect to bid on a job, with some jobs costing up to 6 Connects or $.90.

The most noticeable impact? Less competition for jobs. The barrier to entry just got raised a lot, spam reduced, etc.

I’m personally against it, even though I only bid on a couple of jobs per month. The people already out hustling me or writing better proposals or with a better skilllset are going to continue to do so anyways, but this has much larger implications. It feels like a gamble now with a degree of skill involved - almost like sports betting. And for people in some countries, bidding $.90 is a pretty large wager at that, amounting to what, half a days pay?

If you’re great at what you do, not much will change besides paying what might amount to be a $5-20 fee per month depending on how many and the type of jobs you apply for. With that said, nows the time to apply for long term jobs for free while you still can and use up whatever Connects you might have left.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

I've changed my mind on Upwork's fees. They need to increase. Why?

Because...what the F*ck?!

Lex D.

This dude stole my name, my business, and even my face!

 

[Charnell]

I would rather have 1-5 people apply to a gig that they know they're qualified for rather than 20+ and 75% of them are firms or unqualified people.

I imagine the competition would go down for qualified freelancers. OR like my man did the other month: contact me on LinkedIn to do lead gen, then ask to get the gig on and paid through UpWork to build up his credentials.

 

[kkoasdfawfqwe2]

I start to get the feeling that whenever a company goes public it basically means you can copy their business and focus on the customer, since they just switched the focus to the investors.

Also lets not forget that investors don't pay the bills in the end, they only provide credit for the bills, until the customers pays them.

I know there are a few alternatives to Upwork out there, but I feel like there is room for more competition.

I often list my jobs on Upwork and other platforms, and I wouldn't mind placing it on one more platform if it had a chance of providing me with the necessary freelancer for the job.

 

[lowtek]

You put a winky face but you're probably spot on unfortunately.

My profiles been hidden because of no activity. I’m wondering if it’s even worth it to reactivate.

They do this to me periodically. While you're between gigs (for some period of time) they really want you to sign up for their paid tier.

They even locked my account until they got me on a video chat with one of their minions... at the request of a POTENTIAL client.

It's getting harder to recommend the platform, with all the games they're playing with their freelancers.

I'd advise people to start there, but be building a strong personal brand in parallel so that you can eventually break away.

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

I wonder if they'll still set profiles to private after a month when they haven't picked up new gigs. That way you're forced to bid from time to time to keep money rolling in for them

You put a winky face but you're probably spot on unfortunately.

My profiles been hidden because of no activity. I’m wondering if it’s even worth it to reactivate.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

It's a shame that your execution thread is in the INSIDERS's. It'd be really interesting to follow.

The real shame is you don’t have an INSIDERS sub...

 

[Lex DeVille]

Now I'm also wondering if they'll eventually make clients pay for every job post. I bet they will. .15 cents per post or something like that to help even things out in regards to the kind of people who post jobs. A lot of people who post jobs are fakes or spammers or people just trying to get a look at their competition. The big enterprise companies won't have any issues with this change. Meanwhile spammers will quickly drop away.

 

[QDF]

Upwork's fees have always been too high, and they aren't heading in the right direction.

It's only a matter of time before another freelancer marketplace comes along with a much better price structure.

If I was going to do it, I'd completely get rid of the commission structure and charge a monthly fee of like $10 on the freelancer side. First few months are free, then a flat $10-20 a month membership or something.

Adds more value for both sides.

 

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[Choate]

It seems like they've rolled out another additional change today. You can now have up to two additional "specialized profiles" for various skills. This is really helpful and for example will let me compete with a more specific focus for other jobs that are outside of my main niche.

So basically it boils down to me now having 3 profiles on Upwork that will show up separately for specific searches. Web design, copywriting, and B2C sales. Originally, I didn't list sales in my profile even though I have years of experience in it because it would detract from my main focus. And web design was sort an after thought. This is change is great though, it's basically like having three different fishing rods in the water with different bait without the risk of tangling them up.

I'll take anything that helps customers find me so that I don't have to "pay for leads" with their new system. Still keeping it in the back of my mind that I need to eventually move off of Upwork completely.

 

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[CareCPA]

I've changed my mind on Upwork's fees. They need to increase. Why?

Because...what the F*ck?!

Lex D.

This dude stole my name, my business, and even my face!

"and almost a Bachelor's degree in Psychology"

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

IDK why some of you have a problem with a 20% fee on clients served on a silver platter.

A good salesperson would laugh you out the door at that rate.

Because Upwork isn’t like a salesperson. It doesn’t sell your services for you, it doesn’t tackle objections, find needs, or create deals to get you more business.

Upwork is the flea market equivalent of sales.

 

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[ZF Lee]

Would love to hear what is your thought process in filtering out clients from group 1 out from the rest.

Easiest way to start is price.

See what they say they will pay, and compare it with the rest in the job search list.

Think about how challenging the job is. Obviously, tough ones (such as writing a 10-email series for keto products) get a higher price point. It's an art to see which price points meets your expectations, to adapt to your own pricing, and what seems challenging or worth it to you is different for everybody else.

If someone offers to pay $10 for that keto email series job, no go. Cheapster alert!

I've seen a job from the Phillippines, wanting a ghost writer to do an ENTIRE finance (Slowlane?) book for mums, for the grand pay of $10. Stupid price, considering that finance can be a tough topic, especially if you branch away from savings into financial instruments, insurance and such.

Look at how they write the jobs description.

If its too brief, like 2 sentence long, like 'write me some blog posts', it can be a red flag.
Great clients take the time to tell you what they need.
They'll tell you upfront what they don't want from you (maybe past freelancers burned them), what they favour, whether they want you to look at a website or blog that they draw inspiration from.

Even if that prospect isn't a bad egg, you may be sure that he won't know how to direct you to get the job done, and may end up unhappy when you deliver work he didn't ask for (as he didn't detail it specifically).

Try to pick clients who know what they are doing.

On stealing work...hard to say how to filter.
You sometimes don't know whether an egg has a snake in it until it hatches.

I've asked about how to deal with work-stealers at an AWAI webinar before.
The speaker just said that there's no such thing as a 100% original work, especially for writing, and that there's a lot more good clients than bad ones. TLDR? Don't worry about it. Just do what you do, and move on.

EDIT: And yes, ask your clients about anything you aren't sure about.
Even if it sounds stupid or weak.
I even ask to confirm small details like deadlines or job needs that have already been given.
Ask, ask, ask.

Their answers will tell you who they are.

If the reply sounds consistently like a drunken man around New Year's, that may not be a good client.
Thankfully, I haven't run into one yet!

 

[JordanK]

Really looking forward to these changes. Less competition for those of us who are already doing well and for only a few extra pennies every month.

 

[ZF Lee]

If you’re great at what you do, not much will change besides paying what might amount to be a $5-20 fee per month depending on how many and the type of jobs you apply for.

And do my best to open chances for recurring gigs. Set some kind of expectations with the client for when things get more comfortable.

That's actually where the real freelance money is, though.

That does not need any Connects, if Upwork is right.

Really looking forward to these changes. Less competition for those of us who are already doing well and for only a few extra pennies every month.

Reminds me of what @Vigilante said on taxes and Amazon fees...

I don't have a problem paying taxes. I want to minimize taxes I pay, but believe I have benefited greatly from entrepreneurship in the greatest economic opportunistic system in the world. I have paid a lot of taxes. I literally just caught some things up and paid what would be the equivalent of more than a great salary... but that was for a few years of catch-up. I believe in what Kyosaki said when he was facing a large tax bill... he just had to go make more. I see no ceiling in what I can earn.

People ask me all the time about Amazon fees. Amazon fees? Who cares? It is only a percentage of what I MAKE on Amazon. Same is true to a degree with taxes. I could be so blessed to have such a large tax bill. Means I am doing something right. So... taxes? You're worried about taxes? Go make more money. Go pay an accountant to handle your tax strategy.

There are a few on the forum whose whole existence is to avoid taxes. Personally, I'd rather live on the Gulf Coast of Florida and pay some taxes than live in some third world shithole but be "tax free." To each his own.

 

[lowtek]

Out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do on Upwork? Is it IT related?

Machine learning freelancing. Upwork is not really the best platform for it, so I'm trying to create a stronger online presence to get better contract work / sell courses.

 

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[Ninjakid]

F*cky-doodle-do, as if the 20% fee plus $2 per transaction wasn't enough for them

 

[Xeon]

Upwork's fees for clients are expensive AF.
For a project around $400 - $800, it can be anywhere from $70 - $100+.

 

[ZF Lee]

Thanks! My concern is these changes. I'm still working through the 15 day forum and some other materials.

Still need to get in some practice before I go on upwork. In the meantime I'm intermittently looking at the jobs being posted. The potential earnings keep me excited, and indeed I have noticed jobs I feel quite confident I can handle, and there are others that make me go 'wtf?'. Lol.

Thanks alot for your response and your willingness to address my fears.

If I can help enough people to merit $1k a month, I'd be happy. That can support my needs while I work on my real fastlane idea.

How long have you started on upwork and what has your experience been like?

Started around last year.

Earned some bucks, but progress stalled because I got pulled in by misplanned university work and bad influences.

So I restarted a month ago, knowing better, and I'm on track to hit the thousand-buck mark soon.

For clients, I've met the following:
1. Low-life scammers who steal your work or pay peanuts. They are the ones to avoid.

2. Clients who don't know much about the job they want to get done, but need to get done.
You can use even your simple, fundamental knowledge to provide value to them.

You can act like a consultant of sorts and choose not to charge them for it.

3. Clients who are actually actively looking for freelancers to train up and rope in as full-time folks.
These clients mostly already know a lot about the job and its field, and can tell you a thing or two that you might not know!

For instance, I might find myself working with a marketing manager who knows his stuff on email copy.

Pretty good if you want to get right into how a regular firm does its SOP and management processes without having to climb to corporate ladder. But expect to commit some time and effort, which may restrict you from other gigs or Fastlane stuff.

 

[itfactor]

I just think a 20% fee in perpetuity is a little steep for platform that merely connects people.

As much as I HATE the big chunk of fees Upwork skims from my hard work, I think this is a move in the right direction.

Why?

Because the fees are tier-based. Upwork takes 20% for the first $500, then it drops to 10% at $500.01 until you reach $10,000 (where it stays at 5%).

This encourages the freelancer to start charging higher fees from the get-go (which they should if they are competent) to cut Upwork's fee in half.

Another benefit is that both parties will work towards getting into a more trusting relationship in order to cut out Upwork as a middleman.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I see Upwork continues to "squeeze the towel" to appease their new mission of profit maximization and appeasing shareholders.

As I outlined in Unscripted when a company goes public, the stakeholder demotion begins in full swing. Customers get shitlisted in favor of Wall Street, shareholders, and analysts. In many respects, going public marks the start of a slow demise, the event when a company shifts from a customer-centered philosophy to a shareholder centered mission. As such you get...

Higher prices, more bullshit, less value.

Looks at this little doozy -- the bullshit corporate narrative always tries to make it sound like they're doing these things for your betterment. No assholes, you're doing it to maximize your profitability. Within this little shit-dribbling message of course, there's a price increase.

 

[ZF Lee]

I start to get the feeling that whenever a company goes public it basically means you can copy their business and focus on the customer, since they just switched the focus to the investors.

Also lets not forget that investors don't pay the bills in the end, they only provide credit for the bills, until the customers pays them.

Correct on the investment part!

On copying the business, I think that Upwork still has more gaps in their services that they have ignored or simply forgot about.

One of thew few times I had to get off Upwork to talk to my client on other channels was due to Upwork not having video chats or screen-recorders on BOTH smartphones and PC, unlike Skype or Whatsapp. A lot of clients are always on the run, so it is important to have cross-platform access.

Unfortunately, Upwork hasn't done that yet.

Alternatively, they could have gone into a partnership with Skype and the other channels, and created a plugin that tracks the client-freelancer communications, just to have a paper trail in case anything goes wrong. It's not much different than credit card companies partnering with other businesses for loyalty points and encouraging more usage.

 

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[ZF Lee]

Deleted because FU Upwork.

Too late, Lex

Got your post on my mail.

Upwork merch store, seriously?

I know merch can provide some sort of identity to freelancers...but we don't exactly work FOR Upwork, right?

IMO, its like Elon Musk selling caps and flamethrowers.
Might not affect overall performance of his companies, but its like a filler between TV episodes.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Too late, Lex

Got your post on my mail.

Upwork merch store, seriously?

I know merch can provide some sort of identity to freelancers...but we don't exactly work FOR Upwork, right?

IMO, its like Elon Musk selling caps and flamethrowers.
Might not affect overall performance of his companies, but its like a filler between TV episodes.

I legit believed them, and I honestly think it wasn't a joke but a market test to find out if freelancers would click that link. I noticed it had a special tracker link attached to it. I don't for one second doubt that Upwork will sell merchandise if they think freelancers will pay for it.

 

[Jaden Jones]

Im sure fiverr will step up to fill the gap, someone always does.

 

[ZF Lee]

I've changed my mind on Upwork's fees. They need to increase. Why?

Because...what the F*ck?!

Lex D.

This dude stole my name, my business, and even my face!

WTH???

The profile write-up is 100% the SAME from the one you wrote for your old tutorial vid!

Send a report to Upwork ASAP.

Don't think raising fees can solve it 100% though.

If he's earning cash, he can spend it.