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Should I pay off all my debt?

tonyf7

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Almost done with the TMFL and I feel my eyes have been opened to a whole new way of thinking. Thank you @MJ DeMarco for writing your book.

Here's a rundown of my situation.

- We have two mortgages. (One rental property and one owner occupied)
- About 57k in student loan debt
- Around 7k car note
- No revolving credit card debt (pay off entire balance each month)
- A little over six figure savings in various accounts (401k's, IRA's, Savings, etc)

Wife works a 9 to 5 job and I own my own small business.

The value of my rental property seems to be on the rise. I'm possibly in a position that if I sold my rental, I could profit just enough to pay off all of our debt, which includes our current residence, the student loans and the care note.

100% debt free by age 36.

My question is, should I? Or would it be wiser to use that money and grow it using a Fastlane vehicle? I really like the idea of not owing anyone a dime. We would still need to keep working for now, but being debt free just sounds so liberating.

I could use the extra monthly income to invest in myself. I've been considering learning how to code and create a content delivery system that can Fastlane me to the land of milk and honey. Or find a way to convert my business into a Fastlane vehicle.

Any thoughts?

WWMJDD? (What would @MJ DeMarco do?)
 
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AustinS28

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Im in a similar boat with student loan debt hanging over my head. You have more investments than me.

Just wanted to chime in though regarding learning to code. With websites like code academy and udemy - if very internally motivated - it shouldn't take a huge investment to learn and become proficient.

I've been at it for a few months. It's been enjoyable. Taking some code academy courses will also allow you to figure out if it's something for you without laying out a dime.

I do plan on going to a coding boot camp next year which isn't cheap, but think it'll be worth it. You'll need to know a good amount of material before you can crush an interview for a code school anyways so I'd start there.
 
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It's easier paying it off when you're in an advantageous position to do so.

Trying to pay off debt while in a disadvantageous position could really mess you up.

I say play it safely, climb to a position where the debt doesn't seem as big as it does now, and pay it off.

Don't completely (obviously) invest all the money for a business, but make sure you're using enough to properly nurture a business.

I've never been in debt (16, woo!) but I'm sure it's very liberating to have those shackles off you , just don't rip them off too fast or your arms will come off with them!

p.s. someone correct me if I'm wrong here please, It's a good learning experience for me.
 

Mikkel

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Ultimately the decision is up to you.

Personally, I would pay off all my debt first, if that is possible, as this seems the case for you. You are basically guaranteed to save/make(which every view point you choose to have) a good deal of money just by paying off your debt.

Success in this field takes a good amount of failures before you succeed.

Some people will disagree with me on this point, maybe? However, if you fail at your first business and loose your 6 figure savings, you're going to be hurting pretty bad. You may even be handicapped from trying again since you still have that overwhelming debt that you can no longer pay off.

Learn from the form. Get real clear on how you are going to execute your plan. In the mean time, save up some money for your business plan while not having to pay off debt... because you're debt free.

My two cents
 
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tonyf7

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Im in a similar boat with student loan debt hanging over my head. You have more investments than me.

Just wanted to chime in though regarding learning to code. With websites like code academy and udemy - if very internally motivated - it shouldn't take a huge investment to learn and become proficient.

I've been at it for a few months. It's been enjoyable. Taking some code academy courses will also allow you to figure out if it's something for you without laying out a dime.

I do plan on going to a coding boot camp next year which isn't cheap, but think it'll be worth it. You'll need to know a good amount of material before you can crush an interview for a code school anyways so I'd start there.
Yes, I was planning on using Code Academy after I finish the Intro to HTML and CSS I'm taking at Udacity. I really like how interactive Code Academy is.
 

tonyf7

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It's easier paying it off when you're in an advantageous position to do so.

Trying to pay off debt while in a disadvantageous position could really mess you up.

I say play it safely, climb to a position where the debt doesn't seem as big as it does now, and pay it off.

Don't completely (obviously) invest all the money for a business, but make sure you're using enough to properly nurture a business.

I've never been in debt (16, woo!) but I'm sure it's very liberating to have those shackles off you , just don't rip them off too fast or your arms will come off with them!

p.s. someone correct me if I'm wrong here please, It's a good learning experience for me.
Interesting thought process. If I were to invest in my current business any further it would have to be in a solid way that would create a Fastlane vehicle for me.
 

tonyf7

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Ultimately the decision is up to you.

Personally, I would pay off all my debt first, if that is possible, as this seems the case for you. You are basically guaranteed to save/make(which every view point you choose to have) a good deal of money just by paying off your debt.

Success in this field takes a good amount of failures before you succeed.

Some people will disagree with me on this point, maybe? However, if you fail at your first business and loose your 6 figure savings, you're going to be hurting pretty bad. You may even be handicapped from trying again since you still have that overwhelming debt that you can no longer pay off.

Learn from the form. Get real clear on how you are going to execute your plan. In the mean time, save up some money for your business plan while not having to pay off debt... because you're debt free.

My two cents
By paying off my debt I instantly pay myself the interest I would have paid the bank for the next 30 years, on TWO mortgages! I also free up some monthly income. But I wonder if it would be smarter to put that money towards something that will create more money. Put my money to work for me or pay off every cent of debt I owe? Which raises the question, how do I want to put my money to work for me if I chose that route?
 
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miked_d

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This may not be a popular opinion but I would focus on the student loan debt. Why? It cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy. It doesn't appear that would be an issue for you so may not be relevant.

Is the rental cash flow positive? I think that is the term. If you are making money from the rental why would you sell it?
 

tonyf7

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This may not be a popular opinion but I would focus on the student loan debt. Why? It cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy. It doesn't appear that would be an issue for you so may not be relevant.

Is the rental cash flow positive? I think that is the term. If you are making money from the rental why would you sell it?
Yes, cashflow is technically positive but I won't pretend like our spending it totally under control. Sometimes (and by sometimes I mean a lot of the time) we use the positive cashflow.
 

miked_d

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Yes, cashflow is technically positive but I won't pretend like our spending it totally under control. Sometimes (and by sometimes I mean a lot of the time) we use the positive cashflow.

I was referring to the rental property by itself. Is it generating a non-trivial income each month?

Your total monthly spending needs to be in-check before you do anything.
 
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tonyf7

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I was referring to the rental property by itself. Is it generating a non-trivial income each month?

Your total monthly spending needs to be in-check before you do anything.
Yes, the rental is providing a positive cashflow, but nothing significant. I could probably make more but I keep the rent lower than market value because I have a great tenant who pays on time and requires hardly no maintenance. You're right about the spending. A few tweaks and our spending would be where it needs to be. Been a little relaxed with spending but usually on stuff required for our kids and eating out as family once a weekend.
 
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tonyf7

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Yes, the rental is providing a positive cashflow, but nothing significant. I could probably make more but I keep the rent lower than market value because I have a great tenant who pays on time and requires hardly no maintenance.
Yes, the rental is providing a positive cashflow, but nothing significant. I could probably make more but I keep the rent lower than market value because I have a great tenant who pays on time and requires hardly no maintenance. You're right about the spending. A few tweaks and our spending would be where it needs to be. Been a little relaxed with spending but usually on stuff required for our kids and eating out as family once a weekend.
 

minirich

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Interesting thought process. If I were to invest in my current business any further it would have to be in a solid way that would create a Fastlane vehicle for me.

Fastlane is a minde set. Any Fastlane business starts as "Not a Fastlane business". It is in the process , not an event of getting there.
If you sell and payoff at once, you are acting on events.

If you have no experience in coding and you already have a business, do not change your course.
Its like you have a flywheel (your business) which is running and slowly taking up speed and than you throw in the reverse or start a second flywheel (learning to code) what will happen, either your already running flywheel will go hopping of its mounting, or it will slow down while you push the other flywheel. And in sum your flywheels will turn slower/take longer to get to speed again, in boths ways.

But in the end I/we cannot make your decisions: https://thefastlaneforum.com/community/link-forums/should-i-enter-huge-decision-here.139/
 

TKDTyler

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I'm in a similar position with 100k+ in student loans looming over my head. I have around 20-30k floating per year but I found that it is better invested in trying to grow my fast lane business.

I chose ecommerce and it's quite capital intensive. Does your vehicle require capital? If so, does the capital that you put into your business create a greater ROI than the interest you pay on your loans? My highest loan is 6.5% but the margins on my products are 20-30%. Makes more sense to invest in capital to grow my system.

Depending on those questions, you should have your answer. There is always a way to hustle with and without capital. Define your vehicle first and then it will easier to answer that question.

Do not let personal debt scare you and prevent you from taking action. Action is the only way to get yourself out of the hole.
 

EvanOkanagan

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How much positive cash flow is your rental Making? (after mtg, taxes, and insurance). AND How much is owed on the rental?

What % interest rate is your student loan, and what is your overall payment with your car and student loan combined?

Would love to help, these are important questions though
 

tonyf7

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Fastlane is a minde set. Any Fastlane business starts as "Not a Fastlane business". It is in the process , not an event of getting there.
If you sell and payoff at once, you are acting on events.

If you have no experience in coding and you already have a business, do not change your course.
Its like you have a flywheel (your business) which is running and slowly taking up speed and than you throw in the reverse or start a second flywheel (learning to code) what will happen, either your already running flywheel will go hopping of its mounting, or it will slow down while you push the other flywheel. And in sum your flywheels will turn slower/take longer to get to speed again, in boths ways.

But in the end I/we cannot make your decisions: https://thefastlaneforum.com/community/link-forums/should-i-enter-huge-decision-here.139/
Thank you. I'm not asking anyone to make the decision for me, just looking for input and ideas to consider in making my own decision. No one on here, including MJ, can or will make this decision for me, but there has to be people out there in similar situations or who have insights that can better help me decide.

As for coding, it's been an interest of mine for a while and I could use a new and better website for my business anyway. I feel it will enhance my current business and possibly open some doors as well. But more than anything, I want to do it because I am interested in it and want to learn how to do it. Aside from English, it's probably the next most important language to know; coding.
 

Perrots

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Almost done with the TMFL and I feel my eyes have been opened to a whole new way of thinking. Thank you @MJ DeMarco for writing your book.

Here's a rundown of my situation.

- We have two mortgages. (One rental property and one owner occupied)
- About 57k in student loan debt
- Around 7k car note
- No revolving credit card debt (pay off entire balance each month)
- A little over six figure savings in various accounts (401k's, IRA's, Savings, etc)

Wife works a 9 to 5 job and I own my own small business.

The value of my rental property seems to be on the rise. I'm possibly in a position that if I sold my rental, I could profit just enough to pay off all of our debt, which includes our current residence, the student loans and the care note.

100% debt free by age 36.

My question is, should I? Or would it be wiser to use that money and grow it using a Fastlane vehicle? I really like the idea of not owing anyone a dime. We would still need to keep working for now, but being debt free just sounds so liberating.

I could use the extra monthly income to invest in myself. I've been considering learning how to code and create a content delivery system that can Fastlane me to the land of milk and honey. Or find a way to convert my business into a Fastlane vehicle.

Any thoughts?

WWMJDD? (What would @MJ DeMarco do?)

If its just you and your wife maybe you should keep the rental property sell your current home and move into a condo or something cheaper and use that to pay off your debts. Rental property is a great asset to have. But honestly you have to discuss and make this decision with your wife. Also you shouldnt ask what would MJ do because youre in different situations, youre different people.
 

tonyf7

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I'm in a similar position with 100k+ in student loans looming over my head. I have around 20-30k floating per year but I found that it is better invested in trying to grow my fast lane business.

I chose ecommerce and it's quite capital intensive. Does your vehicle require capital? If so, does the capital that you put into your business create a greater ROI than the interest you pay on your loans? My highest loan is 6.5% but the margins on my products are 20-30%. Makes more sense to invest in capital to grow my system.

Depending on those questions, you should have your answer. There is always a way to hustle with and without capital. Define your vehicle first and then it will easier to answer that question.

Do not let personal debt scare you and prevent you from taking action. Action is the only way to get yourself out of the hole.
Here's the thing, I'm not sure I want to invest more into my business and turn it into a Fastlane vehicle. I own an appliance repair business, just me and my partner (LLC). In order to Fastlane it I'd have to hire a bunch of people and set the business up to run itself, possibly sell the business down the road or turn it into a franchise maybe. The possibilities are there, but I don't think I want my Fastlane vehicle to be a Human Resource System. MJ was right when he wrote in his book that Human Resource Systems are expensive and people are unpredictable. I want a simpler, more automated system that works while I'm watching Netflix.

In your case it makes sense. An ecommerce business can work while you sleep. I'd totally reinvest my money into something like that.
 

tonyf7

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If its just you and your wife maybe you should keep the rental property sell your current home and move into a condo or something cheaper and use that to pay off your debts. Rental property is a great asset to have. But honestly you have to discuss and make this decision with your wife. Also you shouldnt ask what would MJ do because youre in different situations, youre different people.
Seems this forum has been bombarded with people asking for life decisions to be made for them. I'm not one of them, just gathering input and information from various sources so that I can make a good informed decision. That is all. I don't see a problem with asking MJ what he would do because he understands Fastlane thinking probably better than any one of us. So his input would be valuable. I hope @MJ DeMarco doesn't mind this thread and doesn't think I'm begging for Jesus to open up the sky and save me. That's not my intention. This is a forum for discussion and that's all I'm looking for.
 
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tonyf7

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How much positive cash flow is your rental Making? (after mtg, taxes, and insurance). AND How much is owed on the rental?

What % interest rate is your student loan, and what is your overall payment with your car and student loan combined?

Would love to help, these are important questions though

Part of the student loan is still in deferment until my wife finishes school (I'm a highschool dropout :eek:) so I don't know how much the payment will be just yet. I think the interest rate will be around 5%.
 

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I agree with @Mikkel and @UnrealCreative...pay off all debt ASAP. That's just my opinion though and I'll try to explain why.

It appears that you aren't content with your current business, as your goals must have changed recently. (Perhaps from having read TMF ???) So you are likely in for a change in work/business sometime in your near future. As has been mentioned, many ventures fail, and if you go thru a period of reduced income...your debt will be unsustainable. You might lose your home or have to cash in all of your tax deferred savings, ouch!

As a family man, you probably want to guard them against the possibility of losing the homestead. If you have no debt and your next business fails, you can adjust your standard of living down to match the income. If all debt is gone, none of your monthly costs are fixed. You can adjust. That is the freedom that being debt free offers you.

You've reduced your risk in one area and now allowed yourself to take greater risks in another...the new business.
 

tonyf7

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I agree with @Mikkel and @UnrealCreative...pay off all debt ASAP. That's just my opinion though and I'll try to explain why.

It appears that you aren't content with your current business, as your goals must have changed recently. (Perhaps from having read TMF ???) So you are likely in for a change in work/business sometime in your near future. As has been mentioned, many ventures fail, and if you go thru a period of reduced income...your debt will be unsustainable. You might lose your home or have to cash in all of your tax deferred savings, ouch!

As a family man, you probably want to guard them against the possibility of losing the homestead. If you have no debt and your next business fails, you can adjust your standard of living down to match the income. If all debt is gone, none of your monthly costs are fixed. You can adjust. That is the freedom that being debt free offers you.

You've reduced your risk in one area and now allowed yourself to take greater risks in another...the new business.
Wow! This really puts it into another perspective. That's why another set of eyes and ears is always helpful. You're also pretty perceptive (are you also a family man?).

You're partly right about the business. Reading TMF totally changed my perception about my own business and how so far I've only created another job for myself. But contrary to your statement above, I do feel content. I like what I do and I enjoy it. But I also realize now that I've read MJ's book, that it's not Fastlane, and ultimately my goal is to not need a job anymore.

My business is actually starting to grow as word of mouth spreads in this small town we live in. We've really set up a good reputation for ourselves and things are looking up. I'm not making a killing yet but it pays the bills. The most rewarding aspect of my business is the learning process. Learning how to start and grow a business with nothing but a GED to my name has been fun. Meeting new people everyday is fun too. And best of all I love making my own schedule. I get to drop and pick my kids up from school everyday. Something we couldn't do when we lived in the big city.

So you're totally spot on when you pointed out that by eliminating all my debt I get to protect my family. It's like a safety net. Knowing that we're debt free and that my family will always have a roof over their head allows me to take more risks on the business side and will also allow us to bounce back faster and easier should the proverbial shit hit the fan.

I wasn't consciously thinking about it this way but when I read what you wrote it clicked.
 
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townhaus

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Unless you are generating higher returns on the savings / investment accounts, then you should use that cash to pay off the debt.

We are all expecting to become millionaires here, but reality is many of us won't achieve it. Don't assume that your going to be able to generate 10x return using those savings on your next venture.

Do you have good credit? If so then you could borrow the cash later when needed.

You are basically paying out monthly interest to keep your savings and investment accounts topped up, (unless they're making very good returns).
 

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I agree with @Mikkel and @UnrealCreative...pay off all debt ASAP. That's just my opinion though and I'll try to explain why.

It appears that you aren't content with your current business, as your goals must have changed recently. (Perhaps from having read TMF ???) So you are likely in for a change in work/business sometime in your near future. As has been mentioned, many ventures fail, and if you go thru a period of reduced income...your debt will be unsustainable. You might lose your home or have to cash in all of your tax deferred savings, ouch!

As a family man, you probably want to guard them against the possibility of losing the homestead. If you have no debt and your next business fails, you can adjust your standard of living down to match the income. If all debt is gone, none of your monthly costs are fixed. You can adjust. That is the freedom that being debt free offers you.

You've reduced your risk in one area and now allowed yourself to take greater risks in another...the new business.

Have to agree with faithful here. I understand the math side of it, If you're earning more on your money than you're paying in vig, etc, etc. Totally logical.

Problem is the human nature side of it. We're not logical. You'll have ups and downs, and there's nothing more irrational than a guy that's in a downswing making decisions driven by the fact that he has an enormous nut to make every month. Maybe you're a jedi who's immune to fits of irrationality caused by stress. I don't know.

Possible exception to this would be the rental property. Also agree with someone above who said target student loan first. Anything that even a judge can't let you walk away from... you don't want that in your life.

I'm extremely conservative by nature, so feel free to grain of salt all of the above.
 

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*edit*

I read the entire thread after posting.

Your situation sounds like a mess, pay off the debt first.
 
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tonyf7

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Unless you are generating higher returns on the savings / investment accounts, then you should use that cash to pay off the debt.

We are all expecting to become millionaires here, but reality is many of us won't achieve it. Don't assume that your going to be able to generate 10x return using those savings on your next venture.

Do you have good credit? If so then you could borrow the cash later when needed.

You are basically paying out monthly interest to keep your savings and investment accounts topped up, (unless they're making very good returns).
My wife and I have always babied our credit so yes, we have exceptional credit. The returns on our savings is definitely not keeping up with the interest we're paying in debt, so mathematically paying off the debt does in fact make more sense.

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tonyf7

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Have to agree with faithful here. I understand the math side of it, If you're earning more on your money than you're paying in vig, etc, etc. Totally logical.

Problem is the human nature side of it. We're not logical. You'll have ups and downs, and there's nothing more irrational than a guy that's in a downswing making decisions driven by the fact that he has an enormous nut to make every month. Maybe you're a jedi who's immune to fits of irrationality caused by stress. I don't know.

Possible exception to this would be the rental property. Also agree with someone above who said target student loan first. Anything that even a judge can't let you walk away from... you don't want that in your life.

I'm extremely conservative by nature, so feel free to grain of salt all of the above.
Crazy how student loan debt follows you to the grave and then haunts your loved ones after.

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