Should I dumb down my content for people like @vigilante and @imgal?

[AndrewNC]

So I've been getting a lot of feedback lately that my writing is too long.

My blog posts, email newsletter, guest articles on various websites, and you see some of it here.

@Vigilante and @Imgal - commented on the length of it.

GOLD - I'm sorry, but this is going to be painful for a lot of you...

Question for you @AndrewNC

Why do you make your pieces so long? Is it a filtering process to make sure only those willing to put in time and go beyond the quick skim read it as they're most likely to implement it? Just intrigued of the reasoning in a world of soundbites... and I know you have the answer!

For one of my free offers, I have a 7-part video course (takes an hour to go through) that will teach them everything they need to know in order to fix a specific (large) problem in their life. I created the course knowing that the people who take the time to go through it will 100% have their problem fixed.

• From a business growth perspective - If I solve this problem in their lives - they will be grateful, and they will most likely buy my book and other products in the future if I've already made such an impact for free...
• From a value-add perspective - Why water down my content and give a half-assed approach when the goal is to actually fix a problem?

But then I was talking to a marketing consultant who said it's was wayyyyy too long (along with 50 other people who have said the same thing).

She said instead, I should have a quick 2-minute video or 3 page pdf as a "lead magnet", which people can easily digest. The average attention span is less than that of a goldfish nowadays.

If I dumb down my content, I will get more subscribers, and more people engaged....

The core of my brand is to help people do big things (which require a multi-year attention span). Think similar to the dedication and focus it requires to build a business, or move up in the world of acting/art/sports.

If I dumb down my content, I'll be attracting the type of person who wants the quick fix and doesn't have the persistence to accomplish what the brand helps people accomplish.

So if I make the shorter content, I'll attract the type of people who would rather get their next social media-quick fix; which is not the type of person who usually goes on to these types of things.

Is this really the type of person I want to be helping?

So I'm thinking lately that I shouldn't compromise the quality of what I put out, based on the wrong type of people...

If somebody is truly committed to fixing this problem in their life, they'll go through the hour-long course, or spend 15 minutes to read the long article. And when they do that, they'll actually get everything they need, instead of an easy 7-step bullet point quick fix...which doesn't actually solve the problem.

Which will mean less subscribers...

There are three types of people in this world:

1. The quick-fix zombies who don't have the persistence to build anything big in their lives, yet alone read a 15-minute article or take an hour-long free course that will fix a problem in their life.

2. The ones who have the persistence and actually have the traits that will lead to them being successful.

3. People like Imgal and Vigilante who are already on track and not part of my target market.

My gut is telling me to stick with putting everything out there (not matter how long it takes) to solve the problems of people who are actually committed to taking the time and experience results in their life; instead of watering down the content to attract the wrong people.

Thoughts?

 

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[wade1mil]

I've been told size does matter by some and size doesn't matter by others.

But as far as writing goes, I prefer short and impactful over long and make-sure-I-cover-everything. Your writing specifically seems more like a brain dump than an organized piece, and it doesn't make sense in my head as I'm sure it does in your head. Especially when you sneak in the NLP stuff - you do it for subconscious reasons unknown to the reader, but I often just get confused and lose interest.

P.S. I have terrible reading comprehension, and could just be a problem I haven't learned to overcome.

 

[BrooklynHustle]

So I've been getting a lot of feedback lately that my writing is too long.

My blog posts, email newsletter, guest articles on various websites, and you see some of it here.

@Vigilante and @Imgal - commented on the length of it.

GOLD - I'm sorry, but this is going to be painful for a lot of you...



View attachment 15405

For one of my free offers, I have a 7-part video course (takes an hour to go through) that will teach them everything they need to know in order to fix a specific (large) problem in their life. I created the course knowing that the people who take the time to go through it will 100% have their problem fixed.

• From a business growth perspective - If I solve this problem in their lives - they will be grateful, and they will most likely buy my book and other products in the future if I've already made such an impact for free...
• From a value-add perspective - Why water down my content and give a half-assed approach when the goal is to actually fix a problem?

But then I was talking to a marketing consultant who said it's was wayyyyy too long (along with 50 other people who have said the same thing).

She said instead, I should have a quick 2-minute video or 3 page pdf as a "lead magnet", which people can easily digest. The average attention span is less than that of a goldfish nowadays.

If I dumb down my content, I will get more subscribers, and more people engaged....

The core of my brand is to help people do big things (which require a multi-year attention span). Think similar to the dedication and focus it requires to build a business, or move up in the world of acting/art/sports.

If I dumb down my content, I'll be attracting the type of person who wants the quick fix and doesn't have the persistence to accomplish what the brand helps people accomplish.

So if I make the shorter content, I'll attract the type of people who would rather get their next social media-quick fix; which is not the type of person who usually goes on to these types of things.

Is this really the type of person I want to be helping?

So I'm thinking lately that I shouldn't compromise the quality of what I put out, based on the wrong type of people...

If somebody is truly committed to fixing this problem in their life, they'll go through the hour-long course, or spend 15 minutes to read the long article. And when they do that, they'll actually get everything they need, instead of an easy 7-step bullet point quick fix...which doesn't actually solve the problem.

Which will mean less subscribers...

There are three types of people in this world:

1. The quick-fix zombies who don't have the persistence to build anything big in their lives, yet alone read a 15-minute article or take an hour-long free course that will fix a problem in their life.

2. The ones who have the persistence and actually have the traits that will lead to them being successful.

3. People like Imgal and Vigilante who are already on track and not part of my target market.

My gut is telling me to stick with putting everything out there (not matter how long it takes) to solve the problems of people who are actually committed to taking the time and experience results in their life; instead of watering down the content to attract the wrong people.

Thoughts?

If you're happy with the audience you're attracting, no reason to change it up, right?

 

[paulmp]

You know they aren't mutually exclusive.. you could do both and split test them... or just have different targeting for what appeals to the two different types?

 

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[jon.a]

Why does making your writing shorter and more concise dumb it down?
Write enough, well enough, that the reader clicks through to read your novel.

 

[Runum]

Several thoughts that are not synthesized together.

Nothing is free. Your posts require trust and time commitment from the reader. Time and trust are currency.

The forum has gotten so big that readers could spend enormous amounts of time stagnantly reading. Your posts are in a pool of hundreds of other posts. What makes yours stand out?

We are all dynamic creatures, constantly changing, different stages in life. The people complaining about the length of your posts are at the doer stage and time is expensive.

You are never going to be all things to all people. Need to figure out the target for each submission and decide on the need vs willingness to commit from the readers. Need to establish trust that you won't waste a readers time with extra, useless flavor.

Once you waste a readers time it is even more difficult to regain that trust for a second chance.

Good luck.

 

[Imgal]

Sorry ... too long didn't read.

 

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[Ravens_Shadow]

Yes, your posts are too long.

No, I don't ever finish them because I don't have the time to. Especially when they seem like rambling.

If you wrote more concisely and got as close to the point as possible, i'm sure you'd have some great nuggets and knowledge for me to pan out. However, I don't have time to pan the entire length of the amazon river.

 

[Runum]

Also, I learned many years ago that posting on forum requires a different writing style than writing a book.

Simple, concise lines of information play well online but don't make for a meaty book.

Paragraphs in book form don't read well online.

 

[Imgal]

Here's my take on things. I think that there is real value in your long form content. You are a very intelligent guy who knows your stuff and are passionate about sharing it and helping improve lives.

I also don't think you need to change your style. I do think it's worth testing adapting it and testing.

Think Starbucks. When they put out a new coffee they don't go round offering full mugs of the stuff. They offer tiny little samples. It's something that people can digest quickly and decide if it's for them or not. If they stood there and made people have to digest the whole mug then a lot of people would probably get turned off the coffee and miss out on the Unicornfrappodappocino.

Also, my life is now complete. I made it to a title alongside the amazing @Vigilante

 

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[Millenial_Kid5K1]

Why does making your writing shorter and more concise dumb it down?

This is what I thought. Having the ability to express your ideas in the most concise manner possible can be highly intelligent, and will conversely attract people who view their own time as valuable.

 

[ZCP]

@AndrewNC I personally do not think I have ever made it to the end of one of your posts. Your content is great (of the parts I read). I just catch myself saying 'I'll come back to this, I have too much going on right now'. Give me a morsel and make me want to buy a book from you with the rest or subscribe to your video series. That is my 2 cents.

In answer to your question, are you making the money and completing the goals you want at the number of followers you want or do you need to 'expand the audience'.

Good preachers don't dump it all on you at once. They give you a single point for the day and excite you enough to come back.....

 

[Argue]

We need more brevity.

 

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[MetalGear]

1. You are the equivalent of a PHD trying to teach us high school students this stuff
2. Give us the high school and then the college version before putting out PHD centered material
3. I see incredible value in what you are putting out, but don't have the time to read and understand all of it myself
4. We all have different learning styles and come from different backgrounds.
5. Put yourselves in our shoes, we are all trying to start businesses or are running businesses that don't revolve around thought, writing, and philosophy.
6. Most IN ADDITION to performing our day jobs and doing boring stuff like laundry.
7. Check out Ryan Holiday's content, format, and strategy, I think he strikes a good balance and is also intellectually oriented

 

[Argue]

The less you reveal, the more people can wonder.

Nowadays, consumers have a short attention span.

Look at Instagram and Twitter. These platforms understand that less is more.

There's a reason why twitter only lets you use 140 characters.

Besides that, bloggers know this too. They want to keep the reader wondering for what's next, not scare them away.

 

[BradSpencer]

I'm relatively new here on the forum but have participated in other forums and Facebook groups for years and here's what I've found as far as brevity/depth/etc with writing.

You have 3 types of readers upon initial "view"

1. Skimmers (people who read the headlines, subheadlines, and bullet points)
2. In Depth Readers (they'll read every word as soon as you post)
3. Skimmers => Depth (people who will skim first and then decide if they want to do depth)

I write in this format...I assume everyone will skim it first then decide to read it later.

A mentor once told me it's the responsibility of the communicator to make sure the "receiver" understands the message. Changed how I talk/communicate with everyone.

So maybe consider when you write having more subheads/checklist type stuff and then decide to go deeper in between those so someone can quickly skim what you're doing then decide.

As far as visuals go, I looked at a few of your threads and while they're long you're pretty solid on bolds, underlines, etc but maybe some headlines/subheadlines would make it easier for people to "digest" it with their eyes.

The other side too is people read entirely differently on a computer or phone/ipad or in book format. So looking into that too and how the eyes work/process info might be helpful.

Hope that helps you somehow

 

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[Vigilante]

If you understood the meaning of dumbing down, you would never put that into a headline referencing someone who knows your history. You're no William Shakespeare.

For you to insinuate that your prose needs to be simplified to make it relateable to the masses (or me specifically) indicates the lack of depth you pay to your own reflection in the mirror. The first thing MJ told me to do when he reviewed the manuscript of how I built my business was eliminate 50% of the unnecessary words. You could apply that same discipline with a 90% filter. Then, with the remaining 10% make sure it emanated from a place of experience vs. hypothesis and you might gain a readership.

And for the record, I would read every word @Imgal posts here as she doesn't post verbal diarrhea just to try and present an image that was anything different than her reality. Happy to be in her company.

Go pick an intellectual battle with someone that might care to meet you at your level, like Danielle Bregoli. While your click bait headline will likely garner you several thread views, it comes at the cost to you of someone who at one point would have taken your phone call.

 

[Imgal]

And for the record, I would read every word @Imgal posts here as she doesn't post verbal diarrhea just to try and present an image that was anything different than her reality. Happy to be in her company.

That means a huge amount @Vigilante. Thank you! Thinking I should go and rewrite my 50000 word upcoming post now though

 

[biophase]

Andrew,

I think the fact that people say your posts are too long should tell you something about your writing.

It is obviously not compelling enough for people to finish it. I have read super long articles to the end on other websites. I never felt they were too long so what is the true issue here?

It's not the length of your posts, it is the content. Something about them is not making people complete them. They read the beginning and then flounder in the middle. This tells me that your content either gets boring or repetitive somewhere in the middle.

It does not mean that your content is too hard to read. People don't stop reading because they are confused. And if they do, it means you are not doing a good job of communicating. I think you need to look at your own writing style. If enough people tell you it's too long, then it is too long!

Instead of blaming others for not understanding your content and calling them stupid, you need to see what you are doing wrong.

 

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[AndrewNC]

Thanks for the constructive feedback, all who replied.

While looking up the suggestion to look into Ryan Holiday, ForeverJobless came to mind as someone who talks about writing long, in depth posts and is someone to model after (not copy...but model).

(text left out cuz i'm not sure if he wants it posted here)



Linking to a long article: https://foreverjobless.com/how-to-achieve-goals/

Already implementing this in my emails.

 

[scottmsul]

If you understood the meaning of dumbing down, you would never put that into a headline referencing someone who knows your history. You're no William Shakespeare.

I laughed when I saw @AndrewNC's headline, I've read your threads @Vigilante and it would be ridiculous to "dumb things down" for you. But in all seriousness, shortening a text isn't about "dumbing down" but about increasing signal to noise ratio. Writing a piece that is both meaningful and short is infinitely harder than leaving one of those qualities out. There's a famous quote attributed to Blaise Pascal: I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.

 

[MitchM]

Like others have said - it is not about "dumbing down" but condensing. This respects the time of your readers and makes your message much more clear. Every bit of advice I've ever read about writing well has explicitly emphasized simplicity.

If something is unnecessary take it out.

Not because readers are lazy but because it is the key to effective communication.

By the way, your thread title seems pretty defensive and incendiary (whether or not that is the case).

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

Your posts have an obvious need for stroking your pseudo-intellect. You have an obvious guru complex and need for approval.

That's why members like @Imgal and @Vigilante are turned off by your posts. It's not just the writing. It's that you're writing with the goal of tricking people.

You've obviously studied copywriting and know that human psychology will assume that long posts are more valid in opinion than short posts. That's why you're making the long posts. Not to provide more value, but to validate yourself.

And that's why when people like Vigilante do read through your posts closely, they spot the bullshit instantly.

Even this thread. What were you trying to convey with the creation of this thread? What were you thinking when you wrote the thread title, and your original post?

Why did you go back three weeks to pull a post from @Vigilante and @Imgal to make this thread? Has this really been bothering you for three weeks? Or were you just trying to get more forum attention while attempting to establish yourself over @Vigilante?

If you understood the meaning of dumbing down, you would never put that into a headline referencing someone who knows your history. You're no William Shakespeare.

For you to insinuate that your prose needs to be simplified to make it relateable to the masses (or me specifically) indicates the lack of depth you pay to your own reflection in the mirror. The first thing MJ told me to do when he reviewed the manuscript of how I built my business was eliminate 50% of the unnecessary words. You could apply that same discipline with a 90% filter. Then, with the remaining 10% make sure it emanated from a place of experience vs. hypothesis and you might gain a readership.

And for the record, I would read every word @Imgal posts here as she doesn't post verbal diarrhea just to try and present an image that was anything different than her reality. Happy to be in her company.

Go pick an intellectual battle with someone that might care to meet you at your level, like Danielle Bregoli. While your click bait headline will likely garner you several thread views, it comes at the cost to you of someone who at one point would have taken your phone call.

@Vigilante sums this thread up perfectly.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

If I dumb down my content, I'll be attracting the type of person who wants the quick fix and doesn't have the persistence to accomplish what the brand helps people accomplish.

Is this really the type of person I want to be helping?

This is the beginning of the problem.

You're assuming that "IF I dumb down (read: "simplify") my content, THEN I'll be attracting the type of person who wants the quick fix and doesn't have the persistence to accomplish what the brand helps people accomplish."

It's a simple IF -> THEN belief that's holding you back.
I don't think @Vigilante or @Imgal are into quick fixes...yet they don't want to go through your content.
Nor do several other "persistent" forum members. What's going on here?!

Would you agree at this point that it's an erroneous belief?

I think the market has spoken, so there's nothing I can add in regards to your writing.
But I wanted to point out your beliefs as nothing will change until the belief has changed.

As an NLP Coach, shouldn't you know this?

 

[JAJT]

Honestly - I also don't read your posts. I find them monotonous at best.

You drone on and have no condensation to your writing style. It reads like you are being paid to write by the letter. In my opinion.

It's funny you mention Forever Jobless as an example to model yourself after because I was just going to say Billy is the perfect example of someone who writes very long posts PROPERLY. As in - he writes exactly as much as is needed to convey his ideas, and no more. It happens to take a long time to convey some of his ideas and stories but at no point do they drone on. The value flows. The stories are interesting. The ideas compound without being repetitive.

There's nothing wrong with long as long as you aren't repetitive and boring. Which people are telling you that you are. The length isn't the issue with your writing - it's the content.

Also, for what it's worth, I think calling out forum members and saying you need to 'dumb it down' for them is extremely uncouth.

 

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[Andy Black]

There's a famous quote attributed to Blaise Pascal: I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.

This is always top of mind when I write.

I like the writing style of @Vigilante, @jon.a, and @theag in particular for their ability to convey so much in so few words.

 

[CareCPA]

I like my info concise, unless I already know I want to learn everything about it.
I always warn the people I work with that if their email is more than a paragraph I won't read it - they need to get to the point faster.
That being said, I may not be your ideal target.

 

[TonyStark]

Brevity is the soul of writ.

 

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[jon.a]

@AndrewNC it maybe important that you created this thread. It seems that many of us have just been skipping your work. I doubt that was your hope. So, now that you've embarrassed yourself you know the truth.

 

[jsk29]

I think your posts do contain value.

However, it seems like the perceived value outweighs the actual value. To elaborate, much of it is material found in many popular self-help psychology books rehashed in your own voice + a dash of copywriting.

Do the methods outlined in those books (and your posts) work?

For me personally, yes. But in a quick-fix way that made me feel better temporarily instead of addressing root problems.

Perhaps the clients you work with one on one on a regular basis do make lasting changes with your help. That would be awesome.

Dr. Jordan Peterson is a psychologist I've recently discovered and developed a lot of respect for. He's a professor / clinical psychologist. He's a good example of someone who can communicate deep psychological tendencies in human nature for long periods of time while keeping his audience captivated.

If you're interested in checking out his material I'd recommend starting with this lecture.