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Shiny Object Syndrome and the money chase

A detailed account of a Fastlane process...

Jeffrey Smith

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Here is my first (and probably last) attempt at "push" marketing. I saw a webinar about eCommerce. The huckster was showing very impressive sales figure netting before taxes about $200,000 per month. Yes, per MONTH. He went on to explain his basic method for high profit margins.

His webstore was hosted by Shopify. He used AliExpress.com as his dropshipper. AliExpress is the retail version of the Alibaba.com wholesaler. Drop shipping means that you don't hold inventory. When your customer orders a product from your webstore, you receive confirmation that payment was received and then you notify your dropshipper to send directly the product to your customer, and the dropshipper puts your company label and address on the package. The package looks like it came from you.

Shopify has several apps, a few are free and the others are paid monthly. One of the free apps is called "Oberlo" that provides an automated connection between your Shopify account and AliExpress. I had a hard time pronouncing it, until I realized that it sounds like what the Wicked Witch guards are chanting in the Judy Garland movie, "The Wizard of Oz": "o-BER-lo, YO oh, o-BER-lo, YO oh." (My thought process can be very non-linear.)

When an order comes into Shopify, you tell Oberlo with a mouse click to fulfill the order. Oberlo talks directly to AliExpress through the Google Chrome extension to place the product order from your AliExpress account, including the shipping details. If you have 1 or 100 orders, Oberlo can automate the entire process. Oberlo is a *MUST* for a dropshipper and it's free to use with no extra charges. As a former software geek, I am thinking, "Wow, this is exactly what I need, because I am so illiterate with web technology."

But then a tiny voice in the back of mind was whispering to me, "You're not seeing the whole picture."

My Shopify experience was a free 14-day trial. I purchased for $14 a 1-year domain name to link to my Shopify webstore (Shopify automatically handles the connection details). I decided to try "Jewelry" and used Oberlo with its Google Chrome extension app thing to point and click at the AliExpress jewelry stuff that I wanted to try selling. Oberlo imported the entries into my webstore.

I ran into some issues. I needed to figure out how to:
1. Offer "free product plus shipping cost" entries, as well as "ordinary" retail products?
Answer: Go to YouTube and find "how to" videos for Shopify.

I found several similar answers, but none worked exactly as shown. I found the solution with my own experimentation.

2. Advertise through Facebook ads?
Answer: Go to YouTube and find "how to" videos for Facebook advertising.

I found several similar answers, but none worked exactly as shown. I found the solution with my own experimentation.

3. Deal with returns?
Answer: Eat it. Returns probably won't happen, because the customer must pay for return shipping. $5 shipping to return a $2 product doesn't make sense.

But that tiny voice was still whispering to me, "You're not seeing the whole picture."

Wake-Up Call #1: "You must collect and pay sales tax exactly as required by the regulations, or the government will literally fine you out of existence and throw your a$$ in jail."

OMG! I don't want to be an agent of the government. Oh, well, let's take a look at the sales tax thing; maybe it's not so bad... OOPS! Big mistake. My eyes glazed over as I looked at the sales tax compliance regulations for my state, county, and city. I'd rather grind sand into my eyes.

But that tiny voice was still whispering to me, "You're not seeing the whole picture."

I was working "balls to the walls" to maximize my 14-day free trial. My goal was to generate enough sales in 14 days to recoup my investment, which would be over $300 for the annual basic membership, plus the cost of the URL domain name, plus the cost of about 10 e-books ($3 each) about getting started in Shopify and Facebook ads (the e-books were all mostly useless), plus the cost of one Facebook ad ($35).

After about a week, and only 4 days of running my $5-per-day Facebook ad for a free product (only pay for shipping), I got my first order! Shipping charge to customer $10, product cost and dropshipping from AliExpress $3. Net profit would be $7 (70% profit margin). I still had not resolved the sales tax compliance issue, but the customer was out-of-state and I didn't have to collect sales tax.

But that tiny voice was still whispering to me, "You're not seeing the whole picture."

I jumped onto Oberlo to fulfill the order. Oberlo says, "YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY ORDERS". WTF? Shopify shows an order, fully paid and ready to be fulfilled. Shopify customer support says, "We don't know what's wrong. Go call Oberlo." Wait, you've helped me before with Oberlo issues. What's different now?

Wake-Up Call #2: ARE YOU F*ckING KIDDING ME?! You're passing the buck on an integral app that thousands of Shopify webstores depend on, and you don't have a direct connection to the Oberlo support staff?

Suddenly, that tiny voice was not whispering anymore; it was yelling at me, "Selling overpriced costume jewelry to people who are too stupid to order it directly from AliExpress is NOT YOUR MISSION! This customer support screw-up is your perfect excuse to jump ship before your free trial expires. You want a business with high-value (affluent) clients who can recognize value, decide quickly, and have the capacity for many high-profit opportunities. You want clients who will entrust their money to you, because you can multiply it and return it to them in a reasonable time. You already know the perfect vehicle, Real Estate, far better than most brokers. You just need to tweak what you are doing to find the right high-value clients to get the ball rolling."

Clarity of thought and certainty of mission have a way of revealing the wrong path, even when that wrong path seems to be working.

In less than 10 minutes, I cancelled the order and refunded the customer's money ("So sorry, the product is unavailable"), I locked the webstore to stop any more potential sales, deleted the apps, verified there were no other orders, then deleted the webstore. I went over to Facebook, stopped the ad, and deleted my account. I ignored the email from Shopify apologizing for their customer support snafu. I am SO done with eCommerce retail sales.

Many others love Shopify, but eCommerce of selling overpriced junk jewelry to poor people violates my ethical standards and self-respect. I probably spent less than $50 to learn a valuable lesson about my character and what motivates me.

My high-value clients won't invest in my real estate deals until they are comfortable investing in me. High-value clients are word-of-mouth referrals. An accredited investor knows other accredited investors. That's "pull" marketing.

I must re-focus on finding great deals, getting the deal under contract, then showing it to my few accredited investors who will bring in their friends to help finance the deal. The best part is that I am paid to find great deals, and the investors get back all of their investment plus profit (mostly tax-free), and it's backed by solid real estate. Now, THAT is offering real value that matches perceived value.

What the hell was I thinking when I tried eCommerce? I want high-profit per transaction with low volume, not low-profit per transaction with high volume. Just one real estate deal per month could earn $50,000+ net to me each month, plus monthly passive cash flow for years, plus back-end profit split of resale or refinance. No sales tax bullspit on real estate deals; just income tax, which I already pay, and there are some nice tax shelters for real estate.

"If you're going to be thinking anyway, then think big." -- Donald Trump, Real Estate Entrepreneur

I am glad that I did my own research with e-books and YouTube, instead of buying into that $2500 "eCommerce coaching crap." Everything he was offering to teach is available at low-cost or no-cost, when you're willing to spend some time researching for yourself.

Shiny object syndrome almost cost me dearly. That is, it almost cost me my self-respect.
 
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mike24601

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1. We have more than a few users here who are millionaires thanks to eCommerce.
2. If you provide a valuable product people want, what's unethical about selling it to them for a price that earns you a profit? The margins are what they are. You failed because you randomly chose some garbage jewelry on Alibaba, which is a ridiculously oversaturated market. Making a profitable ecommerce product can take weeks or months of back and forth with your supplier, design changes, importation and storage, and then you have to sell it.
3. A cursory examination of most eCommerce threads here would have told you dropshipping is a terrible idea in 2017. You have little quality control, wait times are much too long to compete with amazon prime, etc etc etc. Most people here import and store their own inventory, go with Amazon FBA, or both.
4. Sales tax is a part of life in every business. You have tax liabilities in real estate too.
5. You can also suffer a $50,000 loss in just one real estate transaction that will send you to the poor house.
 

Jeffrey Smith

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1. We have more than a few users here who are millionaires thanks to eCommerce.
2. If you provide a valuable product people want, what's unethical about selling it to them for a price that earns you a profit? The margins are what they are. You failed because you randomly chose some garbage jewelry on Alibaba, which is a ridiculously oversaturated market. Making a profitable ecommerce product can take weeks or months of back and forth with your supplier, design changes, importation and storage, and then you have to sell it.
3. A cursory examination of most eCommerce threads here would have told you dropshipping is a terrible idea in 2017. You have little quality control, wait times are much too long to compete with amazon prime, etc etc etc. Most people here import and store their own inventory, go with Amazon FBA, or both.
4. Sales tax is a part of life in every business. You have tax liabilities in real estate too.
5. You can also suffer a $50,000 loss in just one real estate transaction that will send you to the poor house.
=================
Thank you for sharing.

1. Yes, I know. They have a different motivation and mission than me. I know that many people love eCommerce and dropshipping, as I said in my thread. They are happy to employ many virtual assistants to handle order fulfillment and customer support, and to earn profit with low profit and high volume. My business model is high profit and low volume, with no employees. I use real estate professionals (independent contractors and consultants, including accountants and attorneys).

But tell me, please, could those eCommerce businesses survive as "pull marketing" (referrals) model, instead of a "push marketing" (advertising) model? I know, that's irrelevant when the money is so big and the customers are so clueless.

2. Selling a $0.98 product for $10 and pretending to the customer that it is a great deal, get it now while supplies last, is in my humble opinion unethical when I am using the exact same source that the customer could use and get that product at a 70%+ discount over retail pricing. I will not breach my ethics to earn a profit by preying on a customer's financial illiteracy. Some people can do that and sleep well, but I can't. All of AliExpress is low cost junk that is targeted at poor people.

3. Irrelevant points. Many folks absolutely love dropshipping and they compete effectively against Amazon. It's all about niche marketing to creating a "personal connection" with the customer by using focused blogs and articles, and of course advertising. A form of branding that beats price competition from the big guys. When they get big enough to justify buying bulk inventory and warehousing it locally, then they switch to Alibaba. For the little start-ups, Shopify and AliExpress are good starting points, require very small investment, and can scale up.

4. Sales tax is not a part of the real estate business. Income tax is very different from sales tax. Income tax can be reduced legally to zero in real estate income properties. The government offers these tax incentives to real estate professionals to provide housing and commercial business venues, which increases prosperity for society.

5. Real estate losses are far less probable than wins, when the investor is properly educated and trained. Great investors can easily survive market crashes, including the big 2008 crash, and gain more wealth. The investment is not risky, only the unprepared investor is risky.
 

ActionMonth

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Man, I was actually going to post something about this right before I clicked on your thread. Ever since I got into the entrepreneurship game, my facebook has been bombarded with "Let Me Get You 7 Figures" ads. Most of not all try to convince you to pay them so they can teach you how to potentially make a zillion dollars. Most if not all are trying to convince you buy their drop-shipping e-commerce courses.

I actually saw one that stood out from the rest and had it pulled on my browser. After my last brand failed, I was intrigued to try something new, especially if I didn't have to put in too much work (because it's suppose to be easy right?).

I spent a few days researching sales funnels and online marketing etc. I wanted to know more about it before I buy their courses. I signed up and received an email which sent me to a video. The video said in order to start, I had to sign up for an online sales funneling service for $300 per month! I then realized that this group was in cahoots with this funneling service site. Get people to pay for their services and after that they pay for their courses on how to use it.

It's been a common trend lately where people get rich off of people who want to get rich. I was literally going to post a thread about this right before clicking your thread. I still would like a go at Shopify and E-commerce, but with my own brand.*Phew* Felt like I saved myself a lot of hassle!
 
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mike24601

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Have either of you read The Millionaire Fastlane or Unscripted ? Very few people here will find anything revelatory about niches, wealth guru's and PDF sales funnels being scams, and how people get rich off of selling courses to the desperate. All of that is detailed in the books. To be honest, I'm not even in E-Commerce, but I don't write something off because it's not my cup of tea, because it's hard, or because I had a bad experience. I'll stand by my earlier comment that dropshipping is crap, because I've done my due diligence on it and because it violates the Commandment of Control that is integral to the Fastlane strategy.

And I also stand by my comment about margins. You don't get to the Fastlane by scamming people on Shopify with beads marked up 1,000%. You don't get to the Fastlane by selling the same string of beads that 370 other Shopify stores are carrying, either. You won't sell the same pair of beads because you have a unique "brand" name or a blog. Have you any idea how saturated certain markets can be? You need to hunt for problems and solve needs when it comes to products instead of regurgitating the same useless baubles. @ActionMonth you should start off by reading the books that tie this forum together, and also read into all the [GOLD] threads associated with E-Commerce at a minimum.
 

ActionMonth

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I've actually read most of the book, almost all of it to be honest, but never finished it because it was lent to me. That's why I don't have it plastered on under my profile name. It would be unfair of me to claim that I've read the whole thing. I need to get myself a copy and finish it completely, but I get the gist. Also I been on here for a year and I live, breathe and bleed gold threads. Anyhow trust me, I completely understand everything you're saying so no need for the lecture. My first business venture in the fastlane was actually an E-Commerce deal where I sold a personalized branded item in a saturated market. I tell you what, I stood out and actually did pretty damn well so it's possible that you can succeed in a saturated market. It ultimately ended up failing due to personal and financial reasons that I should have handled in a different way. I'll maybe try it again with a different product in the near future.

Did I also mention I love [GOLD] threads?

I'm currently freelancing in the service industry where I help other businesses prosper. Turns out that this industry was a little more saturated than I thought and it's catching on every passing day, but I see people working diligently and standing out from the rest. E-commerce isn't for everyone, but many people on here making millions from it. I think what OP was trying to warn was how easily we can get caught up in chasing money especially when there's tons of people online screaming "LOOK AT MY LAMBORGHINI!!! PAY ME $2300 AND I'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO GET RICH BITCH!"

Even I'm guilty of having the habit of trying a new venture even though I've barely broken the barrier of my current or previous venture. After having a few failed business attempts, things like this can be very tempting especially to young millennials like myself who see young kids getting rich from playing video games on Youtube with no college degrees. Little do they know that these Youtubers have waited YEARS to make as much as they do.

I think this thread was started as more of a warning to others like myself to not get caught up in these schemes and chasing the next best thing because we failed at one thing. The fastlane isn't easy and there isn't a quick fix to it. It's easy to get lost in these 18 year old millionaire stories and wanting to do whatever they're doing. I seen it happen to a couple of friends of mine including myself. In the instant gratification and high rise ADD era, it's easy to get lost. It's tempting to try something new because someone made it pretty. What you don't see are the potential risks involved if you don't know what you're doing.

"I'm doing Shopify by selling things from Alibaba. Only made $34 this month, gonna start doing Youtube vlogs."
"Not enough views, gonna do prank videos."
"Hey this dude made millions from his clothing brand!"
"I'm creating this work-out brand bro it's gonna be sick! What do you think of this logo?"
 

Jon L

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=================
Thank you for sharing.

1. Yes, I know. They have a different motivation and mission than me. I know that many people love eCommerce and dropshipping, as I said in my thread. They are happy to employ many virtual assistants to handle order fulfillment and customer support, and to earn profit with low profit and high volume. My business model is high profit and low volume, with no employees. I use real estate professionals (independent contractors and consultants, including accountants and attorneys).

But tell me, please, could those eCommerce businesses survive as "pull marketing" (referrals) model, instead of a "push marketing" (advertising) model? I know, that's irrelevant when the money is so big and the customers are so clueless.

2. Selling a $0.98 product for $10 and pretending to the customer that it is a great deal, get it now while supplies last, is in my humble opinion unethical when I am using the exact same source that the customer could use and get that product at a 70%+ discount over retail pricing. I will not breach my ethics to earn a profit by preying on a customer's financial illiteracy. Some people can do that and sleep well, but I can't. All of AliExpress is low cost junk that is targeted at poor people.

3. Irrelevant points. Many folks absolutely love dropshipping and they compete effectively against Amazon. It's all about niche marketing to creating a "personal connection" with the customer by using focused blogs and articles, and of course advertising. A form of branding that beats price competition from the big guys. When they get big enough to justify buying bulk inventory and warehousing it locally, then they switch to Alibaba. For the little start-ups, Shopify and AliExpress are good starting points, require very small investment, and can scale up.

4. Sales tax is not a part of the real estate business. Income tax is very different from sales tax. Income tax can be reduced legally to zero in real estate income properties. The government offers these tax incentives to real estate professionals to provide housing and commercial business venues, which increases prosperity for society.

5. Real estate losses are far less probable than wins, when the investor is properly educated and trained. Great investors can easily survive market crashes, including the big 2008 crash, and gain more wealth. The investment is not risky, only the unprepared investor is risky.

On point #2: this isn't ethics. What do you think CVS does to the products they sell? Same thing with Target. I can go to Walmart and get something for 1/3 the price of CVS, but then I have to deal with Walmart's crowds. CVS is more convenient, and they charge handsomely for it. How about furniture sales? A furniture store buys something for $300 and sells it for $995. "Discount" furniture stores sell it for $750. Welcome to retail sales.

Point 4: there is software you can subscribe to that will calculate sales tax for you automatically. This is a solved problem. There are other tricks that can be done with this, too.
 
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SquatchMan

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4. Sales tax is not a part of the real estate business. Income tax is very different from sales tax. Income tax can be reduced legally to zero in real estate income properties. The government offers these tax incentives to real estate professionals to provide housing and commercial business venues, which increases prosperity for society.

What the hell are you talking about? You still pay income tax on rental income. Form 1040 Schedule E.

If you can't figure out the fairly simple sales tax laws, then there is zero chance you're going to be able to figure out the tax laws relating to real estate. Thankfully you can pay people to do it.
 
D

Deleted20833

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I was making good money with the free + shipping..about $200 a day of profit
on average...then facebook banned my ad account for misleading advertisement :oops::wideyed::humph::duh:
 

CareCPA

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What the hell are you talking about? You still pay income tax on rental income. Form 1040 Schedule E.

If you can't figure out the fairly simple sales tax laws, then there is zero chance you're going to be able to figure out the tax laws relating to real estate. Thankfully you can pay people to do it.
To side track a little...
It is very easy to have real estate that cash flows, and to show $0 income on your schedule E, at least for about 30 years.
 
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biophase

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=================
Thank you for sharing.

1. Yes, I know. They have a different motivation and mission than me. I know that many people love eCommerce and dropshipping, as I said in my thread. They are happy to employ many virtual assistants to handle order fulfillment and customer support, and to earn profit with low profit and high volume. My business model is high profit and low volume, with no employees. I use real estate professionals (independent contractors and consultants, including accountants and attorneys).

But tell me, please, could those eCommerce businesses survive as "pull marketing" (referrals) model, instead of a "push marketing" (advertising) model? I know, that's irrelevant when the money is so big and the customers are so clueless.

2. Selling a $0.98 product for $10 and pretending to the customer that it is a great deal, get it now while supplies last, is in my humble opinion unethical when I am using the exact same source that the customer could use and get that product at a 70%+ discount over retail pricing. I will not breach my ethics to earn a profit by preying on a customer's financial illiteracy. Some people can do that and sleep well, but I can't. All of AliExpress is low cost junk that is targeted at poor people.

3. Irrelevant points. Many folks absolutely love dropshipping and they compete effectively against Amazon. It's all about niche marketing to creating a "personal connection" with the customer by using focused blogs and articles, and of course advertising. A form of branding that beats price competition from the big guys. When they get big enough to justify buying bulk inventory and warehousing it locally, then they switch to Alibaba. For the little start-ups, Shopify and AliExpress are good starting points, require very small investment, and can scale up.

4. Sales tax is not a part of the real estate business. Income tax is very different from sales tax. Income tax can be reduced legally to zero in real estate income properties. The government offers these tax incentives to real estate professionals to provide housing and commercial business venues, which increases prosperity for society.

5. Real estate losses are far less probable than wins, when the investor is properly educated and trained. Great investors can easily survive market crashes, including the big 2008 crash, and gain more wealth. The investment is not risky, only the unprepared investor is risky.

Your first post had me until your answers to these questions.

1) many eCommerce businesses easily survive on pull marketing.

I think having a good employee is better than relying on 3-4 persons to be competent at their trade and close a deal. In a real estate transaction there are so many parts that must align to get your check.

With eCommerce it's a fairly simple transaction.

Yes you can make $50k possibly on one deal, but don't discount that you can also make $10 on 5,000 transactions during the same time for a lot less headache.

2) You had an ethical dilemma because of your own choice to sell a $.98 product. You could have picked anything you wanted and chose the cheap no value product. So you should ask yourself why you did that.

4) If this is a barrier to you then I don't know how you'd put together an REI deal.

5) Spoken like a rookie investor
 

amp0193

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Sales tax isn't a big deal. I'm not sure why you've ranted about it 3 or 4 times.

I also wouldn't really worry about paying it at all until you're actually making real money.

It literally takes me 15min a month to file my sales tax for my home state. That's the entirety of the burden it places on me. You collect sales tax from customer, you pay it to the state. I pay nothing.
 

Walter Hay

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On the subject of the ethics of high profit margins, I have always been a believer in charging what the market will bear, with one proviso:

I would always give value for money.

Examples: In my first business, selling specialist, high value industrial chemicals, my price was always way above my competitors. When I declined to accept a takeover offer from a large company, they set out to destroy my business by selling a similar, but less effective product at half my price, but my customers knew they were getting value for money.

All but one customer refused to buy from them. Some even contacted me offering to acquire samples from my competitor so that I could analyze the cheap product. The one customer that bought from the competitor came back cap in hand after making the costly discovery that the product failed to perform.

In my second business, importing, I sold 1,000 items to a customer for $21,000. My landed cost was $3,000. The customer was delighted with the product and the service, so my ethics were not injured.

Few people seem aware of just how low manufacturing costs in China can be, and how low the margins made by the manufacturers can go. They buy from pseudo "manufacturers" on Alibaba, and because the price is so low compared to retail they think they have bought at a great price.

Those that do know how to buy direct from genuine manufacturers, and how to make sure they are getting the best price, can and do make what some would regard as obscene profit margins. e.g. Walmart, Target etc.

Walter
 
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csalvato

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It's always.... interesting ... when two people who are agreeing argue with one another.
 

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