Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

[MJ DeMarco]

Have you read Unscripted ?

Because I discuss all of this in that book so I'm not going into big detail here...

Basically, you're confusing PERCEIVED VALUE (guru BS), RELATIVE VALUE (real value), and just plain old VALUE.

Yes, not all VALUE is rewarded the same.

I can stand on a street corner and give out $100 bills for $10...

Am I providing VALUE?

Yup.

Am I being rewarded with profit?

Nope.

 

[biophase]

Let’s say a book has some information. If 10 people read it and 1 person uses the information and improves his life while the other 9 have no life change, did the book provide value?

The book is the same, no information has changed inside it. The value is not determined by the info or object. It’s determined by the person using it.

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

Wowzer.

Every single person that makes money provides value in one form or another.

Every. Single. Person.

From the wealthiest men on the planet, to the guys that come in and clean the toilets. ALL OF THEM.

Do people make money selling "value" that turns out to be total lies? Yup. 401(k)'s are a good example of that.

Is providing value in some fashion required to get wealthy? YES.
Is providing value based on good intentions required to get wealthy? No.

Also,

You can't use people like Nikola Tesla as an example of how value doesn't make you rich.

Tesla was an idiot in my book. 700+ patents and the guy was seemingly so far into the "money is the root of all evil" fallacy that he never attempted to have any monetary gain from his tremendous value, even at the expense of being able to continue to provide value!

He died poor, and that's his own damn fault, regardless of society's constant attempts to make him a martyr for the "good of the human race" versus "evil rich guy" narrative.

 

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[Andy Black]

I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

I like to think there’s two parts to having a successful business: adding value AND getting paid.



I shovelled snow from a lot of neighbours drives today. I added a lot of value for when that snow turns to ice.

I didn’t get paid though, because I didn’t ask to get paid.



This evening I also cut a client’s recurring invoice in half. He didn’t ask me to. I just don’t think he’s getting enough value from his results to justify him paying the full fee.

I don’t like getting paid without adding value.



What we need to do is kinda simple really:

Add value. Get paid.

 

[Utopia]

I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

 

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[c_morris]

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

Did you confuse value with giving away free stuff?

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder.

I don't see that as a problem. It's just a fact.
I see a painting and I determine that I would pay $2000 for it. You see that same painting and determine that you wouldn't take it, even if it was free.

Your job is simple (not easy). It's to find the people that see the value in your offer.

 

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[Smith11B]

I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

I worked for a guru. Lets just say he was a lot like Russ. Teaching the exact same stuff. He actually paid for me to go through Russ's course. I can tell you without a doubt because I was behind the scenes that his stuff created 100+ millionaires in the last year. If that is not value, I do not know what is.

Now I am not vouching for gurus but not all of them are B.S. Russ is not one of them who is, in my opinion. Did I personally become a millionaire through it? No. I never applied it. But I did apply it to about 100 of my clients and it works.

That being said. I also met a lot of people like you that thought "providing value" was the same as putting out great free content.

When you provide value. It does not have to be for free. That's really the only distinction you need to make.

If you just convince people to give you money for nothing you are a great con artist. Not a businessman. Some of that applies to gurus. Some of it doesn't.

Con artist can make good money sure.

But Bezos provided value. Gates? Value. Jobs? Value. Zucks? Walton? Croc? Lemonis? Cuban?

All value. They just asked to be paid for it.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

An even better example is the stock trader who becomes wealthy. There is no "Perceived" or "Relative" value added here. There is a transaction where someone convinces him to buy something, and then he convinces someone else to buy at a higher price. Thus money comes from convincing someone to give you money. Not from adding value.

Relative value for a stock trader:

I own stock and wish to sell it. Joe Blow stock trader buys it from me, and gives me his cash.

He provided me value in the form of taking the small piece of ownership I had in a public company and giving me his cash.

Since he wanted to buy those shares, I also provided him with relative value in the form of selling him shares that he found to be acceptably priced.

You'll realize the relative value of a stock trader the first time you hold a stock that is crashing in price, you want to unload it, and you can't get a fill on your sell order.

 

[SteveO]

Sorry MJ read your first book, haven't gotten through the new one. It's not because it wouldn't add value to my life, it's because you haven't convinced me of the value that it would add.

Perhaps this is the best example of a troll that I have seen to date. Comes to a forum that he does not believe in to argue with a group that that has a different opinion.

 

[Andy Black]

Your job is simple (not easy). It's to find the people that see the value in your offer.

The value is not determined by the info or object. It’s determined by the person using it.

Find the people who value your product/service enough to pay for it.

Sales is a screening process

 

[Fox]

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money"

Strawman argument. No one here is saying its that simple.

Thats like going on a cooking forum with "you guys said eggs = omelettes but I bought some and that just isn't the case".

If you need to simplify complicated business concepts into A = B you won't be getting far in this game.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

The government convinces me to pay taxes??

Yeah, and the value they provide in exchange is my NOT going to jail.

Still value provided.

Hell, even a mugger provides value.

"Give me your money and you won't die"

Not dying is pretty valuable I think.

You aren't here to debate, you're here to get your drama fix...it's obvious by your illogical and frankly asinine responses.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I knew allowing this thread to continue was a mistake, especially to debate on a topic I clearly discussed in a book I spent 3 years writing. And since he don't want to read my thoughts on it, I refuse to read his.

Lesson learned for allowing a debate about what boils down to "You guys need air to breathe! Without it, you die!"

And now since the original author thought it wise to attack the big value providers at this forum (I deleted it) this thread is done. Kaput.

On the bright side, this thread is great example of how we determine value.

So I guess he wins. Value is subjective. And my subjective interpretation of this thread is it is worthless and proves zero value.

Thread closed.

 

[jsk29]

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

Convincing others to give you money sounds pretty hard to me.

It may be easier if you had something to offer them in exchange.

Perhaps something... valuable?

If you wanted to create a business with recurring cashflow, a product/service that provides satisfaction and generates positive word-of-mouth (as opposed to complaints and fraud reports to the BBB) sounds like a good idea.

And the fact that value is subjective is awesome - that just means a bigger pie of opportunity for all types of entrepreneurs. I have no need or interest for bras, vegan foods, VR headsets, tanning products, etc.. but I'm glad those markets exist.

Also your stock trader example makes no sense.

I don't understand how you 'convince' someone to buy your stocks at a higher price. Others will buy if they decide for themselves they want to buy at your offered price.

Your P/L as a trader depends on how accurately you can perceive reality and how well you can consistently execute your strategy. The 'value' a trader adds is aiding liquidity and price discovery (and perhaps taking on risk). If your judgment was more accurate and execution more superior compared to others in the market, well done, you earned your profit.

 

[NanoDrake]

I guess there is a lot of confusion behind the word "VALUE"

And I guess there is a lot of naivetivity with the "free webinar training" culture.

I would like to bring my example:

I do shampoos. it's a bottle of water with a 10% of other stuff.
There are thousands of shampoo in the market.

I offer a free small size sample so people could try the smell and how it leaves their hair, I make them aware that this is a free sample and if they like it and have it available daily, they have to buy the bigger size.
My packaging, colour, feeling, smell is all engineered to trigger an emotional response ( we can go to the frikkin moon but we buy stuff because we "like" it)

I'm I providing value? I don't know, am I?

Someone will say they love my shampoo and under the shower it gives them 5 minutes of escape from reality and makes them dream about being beautiful.
Someone will say I'm crazy.

So to recap: someone will find value in what I do, and I want to get paid for it.
If you hand out free samples everyday, you are providing a ton of value (maybe) and someone "maybe" will give you money

 

[SteveO]

So... I am in the real estate business. The process is to purchase a property that is not performing to its potential and make it operate better. Thus, being able to sell it for more money. Can you tell me how I can convince someone to give me money for this if I don't provide value? It would be interesting to see if there is a better way.

 

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[WJK]

I searched the internet and traveled the world looking for an answer to this question.

When I began, I looked at online gurus courses, their webinars, and all of the things they had to say about starting an online business.

Unfortunately I even hired a business coach who I thought would help me with this answer, but I am grateful that wasn't a more costly mistake or a reoccurring nightmare that I am seeing many others face on the online environment today.

And while the title of this post may go in direct violation of what many of you believe or what has become a positive enlightening value judgment by so many well-respected fastlaners here, I have to point out out this truth:

Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money

What I like about the fastlane is that so many of you are focused on this offering of value. @SinisterLex's recent post about the online gurus and their cult followers and the continued attempts to help out @AndrewNC are among the ones that warm my heart with their good intentions.

Yet, let's get down to a truth that I would like to bring light to (for the purposes of my own reflection and that to which I might be able to help another person not make the same mistake I made).

I have been doing some consulting, coaching, and training sessions for over 3 years now. I've wanted to discover "the secrets" to business all along, but I've become disenchanted by them, even disgruntled.

Following the advise of gurus or whoever else, I led with if I provide people with value then I will be rewarded with money. To this end, I taught a training class every week, sometimes twice a week. I grew a community of people in two different cities and when I wanted to travel I even took the sessions online.

To be fair, I did have people approach me for my services which I profited from, yet something was missing.

I studied Rockefellar, Carnegie, and the Rothchilds. I learned some pretty cool things and also sensed there was something more in their wealth acquisition. Sure, it could be argued that they provided value to a lot of people. I noticed this, yet this didn't line up with current online gurus, politicians, the government, or people who were actually failing their customers.

For example, I had a friend who did Russ Ruffinos client on demand. He would be proud Lex, it's exactly like you described. He told me of the processes that they go through after he is accepted in the program. For Russ to do a million dollar month, he has to come up with 100 clients at his $10k price point, or a little less figuring that some go on to his higher price tier. Nonetheless, my friend told me that only about 1 out of 10 people make it.

This means that about 90-99 people are not receiving the value that they signed up for. They are not receiving their $10,000 worth of value. To a contrasting viewpoint of one forum member (I forget who this was), they are selling a dream, and they are profiting from it immensely.

To this end, it made me look at this belief that "Providing value = money". This cannot be true. Because if this is, then the more value I provide then the more money I will make. If Russ somehow gets his clients to 3/10 who succeed, he is not going to make any more money. Did he provide more value? To this I would say yes.

The problem with value is that it is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. I find it a fantastic aim for those here at the forum and the intent of it all here is positive, yet it has me at odds with how to really make it financially in the world.

My breakthrough happened last week when my advisor told me not to do any free online trainings anymore. This was a change long overdue and something that I knew I had to do. But immediately when I did it, it reinforced more of my thinking, specifically Providing Value DOES NOT Equal Money.

I told them on the call that I would now be charging a monthly fee. It wasn't a surprise when 1/5 signed up for my monthly paid training and then it hit me:

Convincing Others to Give You Money = Money

It really is as simple as that.

The reason that 20% of my students gave me money is because I convinced them to. The reason Russ Ruffino has a business that is (looks) successful is because he convinces people to give them money. If you are reading this and have a job, you get money because you (or someone else) convinced your employer that you should get that money.

There are some amazing people here that are all about giving value and I applaud that. In addition to this, there are some people who are spreading their message, making millions, and who are not all about giving value.

I've heard Russ argue or at least imply that if he can change the life of one business owner, then it was the price of the others who he didn't serve was worth it. Simply put, I'm trying to provide value for you all, but only a few will be able to accept it.

What really is the answer to it all?

You have to find your own answer on what you do and where you will go, but if you want to find a model for making money this is it. Sometimes value, real value that you can actually provide will get you money, but this is when someone is convinced enough of that value they will get to give you money. Do not be mislead, value can lead to money, but it is not absolute.

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.

This has been a post that has been weighing on my heart and something that I believe has been holding me back. The nature of things are to constantly evolve. While there is a part of me that wants to go against those gurus who do their webinar thing, it also should be the case where the rich getting richer inevitably turns out better for humanity.

Sometimes I feel like my ethics get in the way of becoming like rich governments and politicians, yet I also wonder, if it is survival of the fittest, where am I.

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

This myth, this cloud over your head, about value = money is along the same lines as "Follow your passion, and the money will come to you." It's all popular smelly stuff that is substituted for the truth.

Yes, you must exchange something of value for money.

Yes, you do need to create a following in order to create a cash flow opportunity. And it sounds like you have done a good job on that front.

Yes, then you have monetize the value that you are providing to that following, in order to turn that value into your cash flow. And you need to specifically direct that cash flow toward your business and bank account. That's the step you're stuck on right now. You don't have to "convince" anyone to do anything. You have to offer your product that has value to your established following in exchange for money. A percentage of them will be glad to pay you for time and talents.

Someone in your life has given you a money message that is playing through all of your effort to build your business. Making money is NOT a bad thing. It's a good thing. You can make money and still be a good guy who creates value for his following, and the people around you. Money will NOT make you a greedy bad guy. It will magnify who you are at your core.

 

[SteveO]

Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

We are now done folks. All we need is for the op to write a book on this single topic. We will then be rich.

While there are many ways to make this happen, providing value is a key part of the convincing.

 

[SteveO]

In the most simplest example, you tell them how the property value is going to double within the next 5 years. You show them 3 other houses that have done so in the last 5 years. Are you providing value? No. Are you convincing them that there is potential value because they will give you money. YES.

Spoken like someone that has no understanding of my business...

 

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[c_morris]

@Utopia
Every reply to you in this thread has been relatively short and to the point, but for some reason you need to spend who knows how long typing out long winded replies in an effort to prove your point. A point, I might add, that has little hope of being made on a forum whose members value the purpose of value in their businesses and lives.

Also, would it kill you to give credit to the members whose messages you quote!

 

[masterneme]

You DON'T convince people, people convince themselves.

And we do it by making some internal calculations around the value proposition and acting upon the decisions made.

This thread is a perfect example of this process:

-Value was provided to you in form of experiences and ideas.
-Your beliefs and perceptions made you transform the experiences into thoughts.
-You made some internal calculations around your perceived value.
-You acted upon that and decided that providing value doesn't equal money.
-You acted even further creating this thread spreading your thoughts (value).
-We made our internal calculations around that value proposition and acted upon it.
-More experiences and ideas (value) come to you.

No one convinced you to create these beliefs around money and value, you did.

Unscripted has many pages talking about this too and you already rejected it because you want to keep your bias going.

Which is another way to say that the value proposition is not good enough or you didn't "buy it".

 

[LeoistheSun]

Hahaha... Four posts in a row on a topic that I would not typically reply to in the first place. Please ignore my inputs. I know, I already said my piece. Too late to take it back.

On to something else.....

Threads like these I usually scroll past the first few posts and look for a reply from one of the regulars.

If its a good reply then its a good thread. If not, no time wasted trying to figure out the truth.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I'm smelling a nihilist trying to make a nihilist argument.

Not gonna bother.

 

[Iammelissamoore]

While there are many ways to make this happen, providing value is a key part of the convincing.

...and I think this makes it easier to make money, because then those of us with a living conscience doesn't feel as if we have to convince people into being ripped off.

 

[TonyStark]

You don't always get paid in dollars..

 

[Invictus]

Honestly, it seems like you're just trying to be difficult.

You're not looking for a discussion where we all exchange ideas and grow together.

Because it's a simple discussion. "Yea, you're right Utopia. But providing value makes convincing someone to pay you infinitely easier."

You're arguing over semantics and technicalities. That, really, the only reason people get paid is because they convince someone else to pay them.

What do you want everyone to say?

You haven't uncovered some amazing secret.

=
My whole point in all this is adding value is great, yet it is not necessary to obtaining money. This goes contrary to what some are trying to do here, but this is what happens in the real world whether we like it or not.

You're not wrong. You don't have to provide value to obtain money. It's not 'necessary'.

I don't think anyone here would really disagree. MJ has made several threads on 'bro-marketers' and how they make money without offering any true value.

The reason this forum is so hardcore about providing value is for two reasons.

1) It's the right thing to do. Sure, capitalism is amoral by definition, but most of us here aren't. A business that provides value is the right thing to do.

2) It's simple and reliable. Create a product that helps people. That's safe and reliable. You don't have to rely on smoke and mirrors. You don't have to rely on funnels. You don't have to rely on copywriting.

If what you're providing really helps, then you don't have to worry about being 'exposed'. You don't have to worry about your marketing falling through.

Sure, you can work more on convincing people to give you money. You can also rob banks.

But, providing true value is safe. It's reliable. It usually doesn't end with public shaming or jail time.

 

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[Iammelissamoore]

It's just not true. It can happen and does often, but it's not an absolute.



Great example Mr. Shampoo. Let's take two examples to prove this:

Girl 1: sees the shampoo marketing loves it, feels that her life will be better, buys (this was all convincing someone to give you their money), and then she receives the product and her life is actually better for purchasing it.

Girl 2: sees the shampoo marketing loves it, feels that her life will be better, buys (this was all convincing someone to give you their money), and then she receives the product and she is allergic to one of the ingredients, finds herself in the hospital and $10k in debt because of the stay.

ONCE AGAIN THE VALUE YOU PROVIDED HERE DID NOT RESULT IN MONEY. IT WAS THE CONVINCING OF SOMEONE THAT DID.

Notice how all of it is just a process of convincing someone to give you their money. Their marketing, the messages, and your perception all contribute to them giving you their money.

You overlooked one aspect of the convincing concept, and don't get me wrong, convincing IS important, but, so is stickability.

In your scenario of girl 2, guess how much bad publicity she is willing to share about her horrible experience. Guess the virality of the horrible experience brought forward by many other customers who would share in similar negative experiences? Guess what the lawsuits filed against their company, due to negligence on their part, they'd have to face. The financial dip the company will experience can end them before they begin.

Think about it, I am sure you can come up with at least one trusted brand you supported over the years, that, due to one inferior change, which no longer served your need, due to their negligence, or greed, you no longer decided to purchase their product. Not only did they convince you to buy the "new" and "improved" product, but, in the same purchase, they convinced you to no longer continue purchasing this now inferior product.

Now, don't get us all wrong here, whatever beliefs you have recognised based on your experiences in business, those are yours to practise as you see fit, BUT, you are mostly looking at the Value Principle for short-term reasons, and not for the longevity it can offer.

What genuine value does for a product/service is that after a period of time "convincing" customers about it, you no longer have to continue carving budgets solely for advertising, because the product/service can stand on it's own. The Value/Quality of some products/services can be so exceptional, that it actually becomes a culture and it spreads like wildfire, sometimes without killing your budget in advertising. One classic e.g. Johnny Cupcakes. Whenever they create a new collection of tee-shirts, by the time they do an advert - IF they even decide to, their tee-shirts are sold out. They just have to send out a tweet "New T-Shirts available" and that does it. They don't have to convince people to buy the new Tees, they don't have to run over-the-top campaigns, they just don't. A lot of fans of the brand have gone as far as tattooing the logo onto their bodies.

Value = Quality = Longevity!

The Value aspect guarantees your product/service a permanent space in your industry, without you having to continuously break the bank trying to keep convincing people to invest in what is offered.

 

[jlwilliams]

For those disinclined to read my ramblings, I will summarise by previewing where my post ends up. Make a radical change, and let us know how it goes.

First, anybody who says that the differences in any discussion are only semantics doesn't really know the significance of the word "semantics." Words have meanings and the validity of any argument is inseparable from the words chosen to make that argument. Salesmanship means using words as tools. Take semantics seriously.

To the meat and potatoes of Utopia's argument. You aren't wrong about the value of convincing people to pay you. You are also correct in your observation that the amount someone makes is not always proportional to the value they create or deliver. Where I think you may be getting off the proverbial reservation is that you seem to be getting sucked into despair. It sounds like you are mere steps away from "FTW! I'm going to get rich as a charlatan!" and start a career as a fraudster. Ok, maybe a little bit of an exaggeration, but you get my drift. You had an experience that made you see things differently than you had and it made you question everything. Even questioning the value of value. Suck it up. Take it in stride. Grow from it.

What are you really getting at? What need are you trying to satisfy? Did you really start and follow up with this thread thinking that you have cracked the code by putting marketing over substance? Figure on converting MJ, Vigilant Andy and all to this new eppifiny? Probably not. So what then? What is it you want? Do you want to let off some steam because you feel like information product marketing has betrayed you? Do you want validation that you should focus more on sales? Internet arguing as a sport? I doubt it's that shallow, but I question if you had a clear view of your purpose. What's the end game of your premise?

Personally, like you may have, I decided that my past career had been long on production and short on sales. I mean... I sold my goods and services...but I didn't really know what I was doing. I succeeded largely on passion and the ability to deliver but I didn't leverage persuasion in a substantive way. A couple years ago I started reading more sales and marketing books. I got insurance licenses and a job with an IMO with good training. Commission only sales is like the gladiators arena of learning salesmanship. 2017 was one of the hardest years I've lived. The growth hasn't been comfortable, but my growth is measurable and accelerating. Maybe what you need is a commission sales job. Put your current online pursuit on a slow but not dead back burner and go work at a car dealership. Then again, maybe you need to join the merchant marine and go to sea for a few years. I don't know what, but you definitely are ready for a change. Maybe change what you do, maybe how you do it, or maybe just the way you think and feel about what you do.

Make a radical change, and let us know how it goes.

 

[GMSI7D]

If you doubt this, you can look all around. One of the masters of persuasion of our time is Tony Robbins. The value he provides is subjective and often times untangible, but what cannot be denied is that he has convinced a lot of people to give him a ton of money.


Convince Others To Give You Money = Money

value is like electricity.

electricity is a move of electrons from point A to point B

a battery is flat when balance has been established inside of it between point A and B .

same thing with awareness. we think Tony Robbins is a god because we are naive

----> but when we are aware, Tony Robbins teaching will seem like childish nonsense.

balance is established

no value anymore , like the flat battery



this is true for any level of mastery in life : physical, spiritual , whatever

so if you want people to think that you offer value, make sure that they are as dumb as possible in the first place

this is what gurus do : targetting the right "naive guy"




.

 

[Dave Daily]

@cmor16 wrote: "Your job is simple (not easy). It's to find the people that see the value in your offer."

This!

Can I macramé or stitch this in a quilt or something? LOL. Awesome!

 

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