Project gone wrong. Need guidance.

[PhilPhil]

Hello Everyone,

About 5 months ago, I finally dove in and started creating my first app. With any other important ventures, I tried my best to research and make informative decisions before getting started on this app.

But without experience, I still made some critical mistakes.

I got the project started by hiring an Indian development company that had good reputation and reviews on Elance (I had no previous experience, no technical skills, no design skills, and no coding skills). All I had was a poorly drawn out mock up using Balsamiq. I was planning to further design as we build, and to heavily rely on their development team to build a logical user interface & to implement applicable functionalities.

Boy was I wrong. All they did was build in the most laziest way possible and shortcutted the whole process unless I gave specific instructions down to the penny. (Lesson learned)

So long story short, there's only 1 milestone left out of the 5 ($7K already Invested with one last milestone at $1K).

As of today, the project has been dragged out to 5 months and we're at a stalemate. I made a mistake of not having a clear milestone, vaguely accepting/declining milestones. Rightfully so, the app is incomplete and still needs ton of work. But of course, they tell me the App is ready and they say its ready for upload into itunes so they can get the last milestone/payment.

The past is the past and mistakes were made. So now looking forward, what can I do to best mitigate this situation?

-Do I squeeze them dry and fight until everything is acceptable? Not sure how they would react considering I've accepted the previous milestones.
-Should I add little more cash/milestone to add an incentive to complete the app?
-Or start and ugly complaint process involving Elance to get this straightened out?

I really appreciate your input. Thank you everyone.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[GrayCode]

Hello Everyone,

About 5 months ago, I finally dove in and started creating my first app. With any other important ventures, I tried my best to research and make informative decisions before getting started on this app.

But without experience, I still made some critical mistakes.

I got the project started by hiring an Indian development company that had good reputation and reviews on Elance (I had no previous experience, no technical skills, no design skills, and no coding skills). All I had was a poorly drawn out mock up using Balsamiq. I was planning to further design as we build, and to heavily rely on their development team to build a logical user interface & to implement applicable functionalities.

Boy was I wrong. All they did was build in the most laziest way possible and shortcutted the whole process unless I gave specific instructions down to the penny. (Lesson learned)

So long story short, there's only 1 milestone left out of the 5 ($7K already Invested with one last milestone at $1K).

As of today, the project has been dragged out to 5 months and we're at a stalemate. I made a mistake of not having a clear milestone, vaguely accepting/declining milestones. Rightfully so, the app is incomplete and still needs ton of work. But of course, they tell me the App is ready and they say its ready for upload into itunes so they can get the last milestone/payment.

The past is the past and mistakes were made. So now looking forward, what can I do to best mitigate this situation?

-Do I squeeze them dry and fight until everything is acceptable? Not sure how they would react considering I've accepted the previous milestones.
-Should I add little more cash/milestone to add an incentive to complete the app?
-Or start and ugly complaint process involving Elance to get this straightened out?

I really appreciate your input. Thank you everyone.

Ok, Hang tight. Read this.

I myself wanted to start a business. A SaaS business developed off of iOS. I had no clue how to program so i figured i would try Upwork which is similar to Elance, but people also quoted me 15k-20k to get it done.

Oh boy how i want to go FastLane but lets face it... i don't come from wealth, and i am broke as "F" also, only 24. so i do have some time on my hands. that being said, i decided to take pretty much all of my money i had saved.. which is literally only $1500 and buy a macBook.

i started researching how to code in swift (Apples Main Language) and i found out while it is hard as hell. i actually enjoy.

That Being Said.. i have about 5% of my SaaS product built and while it may be a few more months before it is finished. i am proud to say i understand how difficult programming is or can be. There is a huge language barrier between developers, and people who aren't.

Can you please give alittle more details on your project. Maybe i can help you out : )

what was the app supposed to be or do?
what were the communication issues between you and the developer?

 

[Guest34764]

If this app Is very Important to you and you're willing to spend extra here's what I'd do.

I would cut them out.Find more competent people to finish it.You should negotiate a discounted price to fix it up since they're not making the whole app.Just doing some tweaks and sorting things out.


Curious to see what others have to say.But, that's what I'd do.

 

[GrayCode]

If this app Is very Important to you and you're willing to spend extra here's what I'd do.

I would cut them out.Find more competent people to finish it.You should negotiate a discounted price to fix it up since they're not making the whole app.Just doing some tweaks and sorting things out.


Curious to see what others have to say.But, that's what I'd do.

I agree here. Immediately Cut your losses.

However i would also like more details on the project.

there may actually be user interface or functionality issues which have to be resolved. The issue is, if you cannot explain it to him because you don't know the ins and outs of programming. and he can't explain back to you because he cannot articulate it in a way for you to understand because it is difficult to translate. Or the worse of the two situations and its as you expected the person is simply lazy and robbing you. (hopefully not)

But it really all depends on the details of the project. Regardless, cut your losses. I wouldn't pay him any more money.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PhilPhil]

Ok, Hang tight. Read this.

I myself wanted to start a business. A SaaS business developed off of iOS. I had no clue how to program so i figured i would try Upwork which is similar to Elance, but people also quoted me 15k-20k to get it done.

Oh boy how i want to go FastLane but lets face it... i don't come from wealth, and i am broke as "F" also, only 24. so i do have some time on my hands. that being said, i decided to take pretty much all of my money i had saved.. which is literally only $1500 and buy a macBook.

i started researching how to code in swift (Apples Main Language) and i found out while it is hard as hell. i actually enjoy.

That Being Said.. i have about 5% of my SaaS product built and while it may be a few more months before it is finished. i am proud to say i understand how difficult programming is or can be. There is a huge language barrier between developers, and people who aren't.

Can you please give alittle more details on your project. Maybe i can help you out : )

what was the app supposed to be or do?
what were the communication issues between you and the developer?

Thank you for the reply Matthew.

what was the app supposed to be or do? It's a niche dating app that takes lot of information from facebook beyond just general info and pictures. I would say its definitely not an simple app (for a first timer like me) and does require lot of information being linked in between app pages. Like most dating apps, functions include messaging, matching, GPS functions, and etc.
what were the communication issues between you and the developer? In my opinion, the communication wasn't too bad. They were very responsive and skyped with me a constant basis. But without a clear milestone, functionality check offs, and just not being sure how the project managing process works, I didn't drill down to the details and functions and just expected the developers to fix it later on. With lax milestone acceptance and blinded trust to get everything fixed, we're at a point with only one milestone with major fixes outstanding.

I hope this answers your question and I really appreciate your further input/suggestions.

 

[GrayCode]

Thank you for the reply Matthew.

what was the app supposed to be or do? It's a niche dating app that takes lot of information from facebook beyond just general info and pictures. I would say its definitely not an simple app (for a first timer like me) and does require lot of information being linked in between app pages. Like most dating apps, functions include messaging, matching, GPS functions, and etc.
what were the communication issues between you and the developer? In my opinion, the communication wasn't too bad. They were very responsive and skyped with me a constant basis. But without a clear milestone, functionality check offs, and just not being sure how the project managing process works, I didn't drill down to the details and functions and just expected the developers to fix it later on. With lax milestone acceptance and blinded trust to get everything fixed, we're at a point with only one milestone with major fixes outstanding.

I hope this answers your question and I really appreciate your further input/suggestions.

How much did you already invest into it and what is the app currently able to do? Have you seen it or used it yet?

 

[GrayCode]

How much did you already invest into it and what is the app currently able to do? Have you seen it or used it yet?

Another Question i have for you is, What is the purpose of this app? What is its Unique selling proposition? Who is the End User?

Are you trying to make this into a Fastlane business? Or just an app to use amongst friends?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PhilPhil]

How much did you already invest into it and what is the app currently able to do? Have you seen it or used it yet?
-Total cost around $8,000. About $7,000 already paid with one more milestone/payment left at $1,000.
-It's an MVP product, but we have every intention to further improve and invest with viable market response.

Another Question i have for you is, What is the purpose of this app? What is its Unique selling proposition? Who is the End User?
-It's a dating app purposed to connect people with similar interests.
-Unique selling proposition is an additional functionality that requires " out of the box" integration with facebook (I wish I could go more into detail but cannot for obvious reasons. I apologize).
-End User: Same demographics that would be using Tinder and etc.
*The biggest challenge is collecting data from Facebook beyond the API provided by facebook. The developers promised this function was possible, but its very inconsistent at the moment.

Are you trying to make this into a Fastlane business? Or just an app to use amongst friends?
-This app is purposed for scale and with intentions to compete in the major app markets.

 

[GrayCode]

How much did you already invest into it and what is the app currently able to do? Have you seen it or used it yet?
-Total cost around $8,000. About $7,000 already paid with one more milestone/payment left at $1,000.
-It's an MVP product, but we have every intention to further improve and invest with viable market response.

Another Question i have for you is, What is the purpose of this app? What is its Unique selling proposition? Who is the End User?
-It's a dating app purposed to connect people with similar interests.
-Unique selling proposition is an additional functionality that requires " out of the box" integration with facebook (I wish I could go more into detail but cannot for obvious reasons. I apologize).
-End User: Same demographics that would be using Tinder and etc.
*The biggest challenge is collecting data from Facebook beyond the API provided by facebook. The developers promised this function was possible, but its very inconsistent at the moment.

Are you trying to make this into a Fastlane business? Or just an app to use amongst friends?
-This app is purposed for scale and with intentions to compete in the major app markets.

I see, Well without more information i cannot be of much help. But it seems as though you are frustrated with how long it is taking?

Have you yourself gotten to physically use the app? or see the developer use it?

i can tell you from my own experience of learning to develop in swift - The app can change greatly with even the slightest of tweaks needed. Were you providing him graphics to use, i wouldn't mind skype chatting with you.

 

[FastNAwesome]

unless I gave specific instructions down to the penny. (Lesson learned)

So called project specification. Very good to have it when outsourcing.

It helps developers to see the big picture and make better decisions on how to structure the app. It also helps in cost estimate. And it makes it much more obvious when any particular milestone is finished.

-Total cost around $8,000. About $7,000 already paid with one more milestone/payment left at $1,000.
-It's an MVP product, but we have every intention to further improve and invest with viable market response.

Since you already threw that much money at it, one way to go about it could be:

- Define, which features exactly do you feel the app is missing to become a good MVP
- Try to reach an agreement with them to finish these features for the remaining money

The developers promised this function was possible, but its very inconsistent at the moment.

As for communicating with websites outside of the designated means that they provide, such as APIs, there are 2 considerations:

- Consistency. You basically have no guarantee that whatever you're trying will work, or work consistently.
- Terms of service. Are you even permitted to do so?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[GrayCode]

I see, Well without more information i cannot be of much help. But it seems as though you are frustrated with how long it is taking?

Have you yourself gotten to physically use the app? or see the developer use it?

i can tell you from my own experience of learning to develop in swift - The app can change greatly with even the slightest of tweaks needed. Were you providing him graphics to use, i wouldn't mind skype chatting with you.

That being said, you should know that developers are uninterested in stealing ideas but more so with making other peoples ideas come to life.

developers get paid to

So called project specification. Very good to have it when outsourcing.

It helps developers to see the big picture and make better decisions on how to structure the app. It also helps in cost estimate. And it makes it much more obvious when any particular milestone is finished.




Since you already threw that much money at it, one way to go about it could be:

- Define, which features exactly do you feel the app is missing to become a good MVP
- Try to reach an agreement with them to finish these features for the remaining money




As for communicating with websites outside of the designated means that they provide, such as APIs, there are 2 considerations:

- Consistency. You basically have no guarantee that whatever you're trying will work, or work consistently.
- Terms of service. Are you even permitted to do so?

Terms of service! i didn't even think of that, i am sure it has to be illegal though to siphon all of facebook's info for your own personal benefit.

Totally agree with this. I am sure there is a way to structure your dating app without having any need for facebook in the first place.

 

[John Robert]

If this app Is very Important to you and you're willing to spend extra here's what I'd do.

I would cut them out.Find more competent people to finish it.You should negotiate a discounted price to fix it up since they're not making the whole app.Just doing some tweaks and sorting things out.


Curious to see what others have to say.But, that's what I'd do.

I agree. Whats done is done.

Also, learn how to properly manage software development, set deadlines/milestones/etc. This is a whole area of knowledge, and going into a project like this without basic knowledge of the software dev process was immature.

Youll be fine tho, just either find new people (double down) or figure its sunk cost.

Using stuff like this to learn skills though is the best benefit i can see

 

[MitchC]

I had the exact same issue. Indian dev, good feedback, lax milestones, actually in the end I set clear ones and they still didn't deliver, lazy programming, I released the last payment before they would upload it to the store, they uploaded it and apple rejected it because the ads and in app purchases weren't even coded they just made it look like they were.

I then hired a guy from USA to finish it, cost a lot more but he's great to work with, the complete opposite. Instead of having to coax him into doing things that were agreed on, waiting days to hear back, having things done the laziest way possible and being stressed about what crap he's going to pull next, he just does what needs to be done, contributes his own ideas, and works without guidance and even follows up and fixes things after I've paid him.

He also keeps noticing things in the code that were not done properly.

So anyway..

Change your dev! Do not pay them another $1.

These Indian companies work like this, they just suck you dry, and give you as little as possible, bullying and guilt tripping you into releasing payments.

When you choose your next dev, something else to consider is you want to outstaff not outsource, as in you want to hire a person, not a company.

The final thing is, by having a very clear wireframe, you can drastically reduce the hours needed for coding, and set very clear milestones. You'll also realize a lot of issues that you would have otherwise only realized halfway through development, which can hold things up, or cost money to redo things.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[johnp]

@PhilPhil

I was in this exact situation back in 2011, so I know exactly what you're dealing with. It's stressful and a complete nightmare overall. I remember the day that I realized I had to seek out help. We had spent 6 months in the design stage and they were finally converting designs into wireframes. I was sitting in a Starbucks late Spring going over the 6th update to the wireframes, which were still a mess and I cracked. I finally came to this forum and got help from someone.

Now almost 4 years later I'm passed it. I learned about the development process. And I even have an app company. So the good news is that you will get passed it. But that's exactly what you have to do...get past it.

You have a decision to make.

Either keep going with them

or

Pull out.

This is the same decision I faced when I was 12k in the hole. I followed my gut and dropped them. I didn't get any source code or even a single penny back. It sucked but whatever...

Part of being a business person is having the ability to move on when shit hits the fan, which happens all of the time business, especially in tech.

As of today, the project has been dragged out to 5 months and we're at a stalemate. I made a mistake of not having a clear milestone, vaguely accepting/declining milestones. Rightfully so, the app is incomplete and still needs ton of work. But of course, they tell me the App is ready and they say its ready for upload into itunes so they can get the last milestone/payment.

In most cases an app shouldn't take 5 months to build, especially if it's an MVP. I just built a social type of app for someone in 2 months. And we spent 1 of the 2 months extracting the idea from his head before we even sat down to code. So we really built the entire app in 1 month.

It's not your fault at all. It's up to the company to extract the idea out of your head. Everything should have been laid out for you with briefs, designs, and contacts.


Feel free to contact me if you need any help/advice.

 

[johnp]

Also,

This is something worth taking a look at to help you determine if you should continue with them.

It's called the Sunk Cost Fallacy

What is this fallacy?
In economics, a sunk cost is any past cost that has already been paid and cannot be recovered. For example, a business may have invested a million dollars into new hardware. This money is now gone and cannot be recovered, so it shouldn’t figure into the business’s decision making process.

Or, let’s say you buy tickets to a concert. On the day of the event, you catch a cold. Even though you are sick, you decide to go to the concert because otherwise “you would have wasted your money”.

Boom! You just fell for the sunk cost fallacy.

Sure, you spent the money already. But you can’t get it back. If you aren’t going to have a good time at the concert, you only make your life worse by going.


http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/how-the-sunk-cost-fallacy-makes-you-act-stupid.html

 

[GuestUser202]

In my company (my J.O.B., not my business), when hiring from overseas, we HAVE to conduct video interviews via Skype as in the past the company has hired someone that looks good on paper, but when they sit down at their desk, they are completely lost. The company basically hired someone other than what the resume said. This happens all over the world and even in the US, headhunters are doing video calls to candidates to make sure that the person they hire is the person depicted on the resume. My take on all this that someone you spoke to is not the one doing the actual coding. Also, in my dealings with people from India, they will say yes even if they have no clue what you are talking about. In all honestly, I'd cut my losses and find a more competent developer as many have suggested. I don't see it being a complete waste of money as you most likely have SOME usable code.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Lex DeVille]

Hello Everyone,

About 5 months ago, I finally dove in and started creating my first app. With any other important ventures, I tried my best to research and make informative decisions before getting started on this app.

But without experience, I still made some critical mistakes.

I got the project started by hiring an Indian development company that had good reputation and reviews on Elance (I had no previous experience, no technical skills, no design skills, and no coding skills). All I had was a poorly drawn out mock up using Balsamiq. I was planning to further design as we build, and to heavily rely on their development team to build a logical user interface & to implement applicable functionalities.

Boy was I wrong. All they did was build in the most laziest way possible and shortcutted the whole process unless I gave specific instructions down to the penny. (Lesson learned)

So long story short, there's only 1 milestone left out of the 5 ($7K already Invested with one last milestone at $1K).

As of today, the project has been dragged out to 5 months and we're at a stalemate. I made a mistake of not having a clear milestone, vaguely accepting/declining milestones. Rightfully so, the app is incomplete and still needs ton of work. But of course, they tell me the App is ready and they say its ready for upload into itunes so they can get the last milestone/payment.

The past is the past and mistakes were made. So now looking forward, what can I do to best mitigate this situation?

-Do I squeeze them dry and fight until everything is acceptable? Not sure how they would react considering I've accepted the previous milestones.
-Should I add little more cash/milestone to add an incentive to complete the app?
-Or start and ugly complaint process involving Elance to get this straightened out?

I really appreciate your input. Thank you everyone.

Does the app solve a real problem in the dating industry? Does it help people in some different way than other apps?

May be worth a bit of crowdfunding to raise money and finish it out.

Done right you'll get exposure too.

Crowdfunding has it's own expenses, but it can be done on the cheap if you've got a little time to build an audience.

 

[fastattack03]

Hello Everyone,

About 5 months ago, I finally dove in and started creating my first app. With any other important ventures, I tried my best to research and make informative decisions before getting started on this app.

But without experience, I still made some critical mistakes.

I got the project started by hiring an Indian development company that had good reputation and reviews on Elance (I had no previous experience, no technical skills, no design skills, and no coding skills). All I had was a poorly drawn out mock up using Balsamiq. I was planning to further design as we build, and to heavily rely on their development team to build a logical user interface & to implement applicable functionalities.

Boy was I wrong. All they did was build in the most laziest way possible and shortcutted the whole process unless I gave specific instructions down to the penny. (Lesson learned)

So long story short, there's only 1 milestone left out of the 5 ($7K already Invested with one last milestone at $1K).

As of today, the project has been dragged out to 5 months and we're at a stalemate. I made a mistake of not having a clear milestone, vaguely accepting/declining milestones. Rightfully so, the app is incomplete and still needs ton of work. But of course, they tell me the App is ready and they say its ready for upload into itunes so they can get the last milestone/payment.

The past is the past and mistakes were made. So now looking forward, what can I do to best mitigate this situation?

-Do I squeeze them dry and fight until everything is acceptable? Not sure how they would react considering I've accepted the previous milestones.
-Should I add little more cash/milestone to add an incentive to complete the app?
-Or start and ugly complaint process involving Elance to get this straightened out?

I really appreciate your input. Thank you everyone.

Have you tried checking your past discussions and comparing it to the final version of the app? You must have at least discussed a list of features to your programmer.

If some features are missing and you have a record of your discussion then maybe you can make a complaint.

Otherwise, this is a game that's hard to win. I'd be finding another programmer who's more reliable.

I had the exact same issue. Indian dev, good feedback, lax milestones, actually in the end I set clear ones and they still didn't deliver, lazy programming, I released the last payment before they would upload it to the store, they uploaded it and apple rejected it because the ads and in app purchases weren't even coded they just made it look like they were.

I then hired a guy from USA to finish it, cost a lot more but he's great to work with, the complete opposite. Instead of having to coax him into doing things that were agreed on, waiting days to hear back, having things done the laziest way possible and being stressed about what crap he's going to pull next, he just does what needs to be done, contributes his own ideas, and works without guidance and even follows up and fixes things after I've paid him.

He also keeps noticing things in the code that were not done properly.

So anyway..

Change your dev! Do not pay them another $1.

These Indian companies work like this, they just suck you dry, and give you as little as possible, bullying and guilt tripping you into releasing payments.

When you choose your next dev, something else to consider is you want to outstaff not outsource, as in you want to hire a person, not a company.

The final thing is, by having a very clear wireframe, you can drastically reduce the hours needed for coding, and set very clear milestones. You'll also realize a lot of issues that you would have otherwise only realized halfway through development, which can hold things up, or cost money to redo things.

@BookwormMitch Thanks for sharing your experience. Would you mind sharing the hourly rate you paid to that US programmer?

 

[MitchC]

Have you tried checking your past discussions and comparing it to the final version of the app? You must have at least discussed a list of features to your programmer.

If some features are missing and you have a record of your discussion then maybe you can make a complaint.

Otherwise, this is a game that's hard to win. I'd be finding another programmer who's more reliable.




@BookwormMitch Thanks for sharing your experience. Would you mind sharing the hourly rate you paid to that US programmer?

I paid fixed price per job but he quoted hourly $50 per hour. The Indian quoted $700 for the entire app. I paid the us dev $500 to fix it and $400 for an update.

Way more expensive and I think I overpaid, but he was so much easier to deal with


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andrew Ward]

Given that it sounds like the team have been completely incompetent I would be reluctant to build upon what has been done already.

One of my businesses is a UK based web and app development business and we get a lot of clients who have come to us with part-implemented spaghetti code where starting again is the only logical step forwards.

Where coding is concerned it is important your foundations are strong. Pick the right framework and head off in the right direction from the beginning and little issues along the way don't cause your house to fall over. Try to build a skyscraper on foundations in the sand and you have a problem.

I think you should start again from what you have told me, though your money hasn't been wasted. What you have now will have helped you to prototype your idea and you have almost certainly learned a lot from this experience. Your next app investment will be better positioned as a result. Who knows maybe be prototype could be used to seek some initial investment. Personally I would expect a dating app to cost more than you paid to do properly so you need to come up with a strategy to finance it somehow.

It is good you have Balsamiq, make sure to wireframe every step of the process and put together a requirements spec.

Here is a blog post I wrote earlier this year about how to put together a simple spec if you are interested:
https://www.scorchsoft.com/blog/scoping-your-project-why-and-how/

So basically all you need is a well thought out bulleted list.

Also find a development team you can visit, or that is at least on a similar timezone to you so you can actually communicate day to day about the projects progress.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[PhilPhil]

Thank you everyone for your input and sharing your similar experiences. I really appreciate it.

I will evaluate all the suggested options and try to make the best decision going forward. I will keep you guys updated.

 

[hhhoang]

-Do I squeeze them dry and fight until everything is acceptable? Not sure how they would react considering I've accepted the previous milestones.
I've been outsourcing for the last 3 years for my business and the thing I learned about outsourcing is that these people only do what you ask. They can't read your mind. They will only do whatever it is that you ask them to do. They are not creative geniuses or have an eye for aesthetic for how your app should be. That is your job. You have the vision for your product and when you outsource, there must be no ambiguity.

Next time you outsource, make sure you put a lot of time in your brief and how you want them to design your product EXACTLY. You need to provide them DETAILED instructions that go step by step on how you want your app to turn out.

If the outsourcer doesn't deliver even with the detailed instructions, you just need to fire them and find a new one. That's where the key of having detailed milestones come into play.

-Should I add little more cash/milestone to add an incentive to complete the app?
No. You already spent a shitload of money on this and its already a mess. There's no need to spend more money to finish a mess.

-Or start and ugly complaint process involving Elance to get this straightened out?
Possibly but this is going to take a long time to review and process. One time I ran a complaint process for a small $20 logo design project and it took them 2 weeks to just reply. You would need to provide them with evidence that the outsourcer is on the fault.

Trust me it's not that easy to get your money back when they already have it.


Overall, just learn from this experience. Never hire outsourcers that have no experience or ratings. Even if they are cheap, if they have no credibility, dont hire them. Be detailed in your projects and assume that these outsourcers know nothing about your project.

Don't assume that they will magically read your mind and create something that perfectly matches your vision in your head of the product.

Hope this helps.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PhilPhil]

Again thank you for all your inputs everyone.

A small update: I will be closing this project with the current developer and I am currently looking for local developers to take over the project.

Question: What's the best method to receive the source code from the previous developer where I can hand it off smoothly to the future developer?

Thank you!

 

[IGP]

For future reference, use something like http://keynotopia.com/

U can create the mock up exactly like you want in PowerPoint or on a Mac. At least then you have a mock up that is exactly like u want. Now, whether the back end code is any good or not is a totally different scenario.

With regards to the source code: If your plan is to give that to a developer and tell them to fix it, you are probably better off starting from scratch. As they say, "you can't polish a turd!".

 

[ThinkDifferent]

Again thank you for all your inputs everyone.

A small update: I will be closing this project with the current developer and I am currently looking for local developers to take over the project.

Question: What's the best method to receive the source code from the previous developer where I can hand it off smoothly to the future developer?

Thank you!

I wish you the best of luck man. I also had similar issues with Indian companies. Luckily I didnt pay upfront. They promise you a lot and can even repeat what you mean, but then try to have other Indians workers do it for them. I became very angry and told them I wouldnt pay sh*t if they didn't finish it properly. In the end after several frustrations, I paid them for not too good work.

Regarding an app what I would do is find a real good young programmer that hasnt have had any exposure. Meet with him/her and explain in detail what has to be done. You can get a unbelievable bargain. You can search someone like that on second hand websites and try looking for talent and motivation.

I hope my post isnt useless. Good luck with your idea!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PhilPhil]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to give an update on his project. Due to various circumstances, I decided to launch the app now and improve upon the MVP. You can see and download the app here. http://apple.co/2bbKjSG

Basically, it's an dating app with an extra functionality that caters to people who doesn't want to meet just for a coffee but rather invite someone out to a free museum night and etc.

The app extracts "popular events" and smaller events that the user is attending from their facebook accounts and creates a pool of events that are stored in the app.

The app user is able to see the aggregated apps near their location and invite local users to these events as a date.

Now, as mentioned previously in this thread, the app quality as expected and still needs ton of work. However, from my experience with this developer and hiring other developer for other projects, I can't fathom passing this off to another development team (I just may be untalented at hiring and managing, but it just hasn't worked out to my expectations).

My question to you guys is, how should I go about looking for partners that may be interested on taking over this project? How can I keep the possible partner incentivized and not just sit there since they didn't pay anything for the equity? And where can I find these type of partners who might be fit for a project like this? College students? Forums?

Thank you for all for listening to my rant and I truly appreciate you guys sharing your experiences and your knowledge.

 

[Get Right]

I can't fathom passing this off to another development team (I just may be untalented at hiring and managing, but it just hasn't worked out to my expectations).

@The-J might be able to help with a strategy, guy's brilliant with this stuff

 

[Jon L]

What would you want a potential partner doing? (pay for the rest of the development, take over development, etc?)


You said earlier that these developers are lazy and do the least work possible. This is not good. At all. I had a contractor that was like that. He had great feedback on Elance, too. I went a few rounds with him over the course of a week, and then let him go. All of the stuff he did for me was crap. I'm a programmer myself, so I was able to understand the 'behind the scenes' stuff that he did ... it was all crap. As was the stuff he did that would have been obvious to a non-programmer. The problem with someone like this is that as they build more stuff into your application, they will just continue to heap crap on top of more crap. Not to overuse that word or anything.

If I were you, I'd bring on a programmer partner - give him/her 10% -20% for advice on the following:

1) have them take a look at the code and evaluate it for quality
2) Decide if you're going to continue using these developers
3) come up with as detailed a plan as you can for where this project needs to go, and have your developer partner shoot holes in it
4) revise your plan
5) make your development team meet with you EVERY DAY for 15-30 minutes and talk about what will be accomplished THAT DAY. Until you get comfortable with this process, have your dev partner sit in on these meetings
6) etc... (I have to run, but you probably get the idea)

Also, buy a book on Agile software project management. There are a ton of good ones out there. Alternatively, you can buy a $10/month subscription to Jira (software project mgt tool) and watch the countless hours of training materials they have for it. Actually, make your developers use Jira to keep track of progress.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[The-J]

@The-J might be able to help with a strategy, guy's brilliant with this stuff

Whooooaaaaa don't put that on me LOL

Lemme see if I can help, though.

I have done both, as in, I've built my own team and I've contracted to others' teams.

Building is better, and I'll explain why.

When I was contracting my projects to another team, I had to work within their specifications. Not only that, I had to accept that I had no control over the process that the project was taking. Yes, their process was faster (initially ) and there was basically no learning curve. I made one spec sheet and they did it all.

Now that I have my own little ragtag team of people that actually work pretty well in my process, I know exactly how things get done, how long they will take, and what it takes for my devs/designers/writers to produce good work.

However, keep in mind that I do NOT build apps or software! I have zero expertise in that! Apps and software require rather complicated flow charts to properly explain to any developer what you want, in each step of the way.

Marketing is what I do. I do not build things: I sell things. Everything my team and I do is based around one thing: getting people to buy.

I honestly don't think you should be going with a single developer? You'd be surprised at what multiple devs on one project can do.

 

[Andy Black]

I do not build things: I sell things.

^^^ Now that is worthy of it's own thread...