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OFF-TOPIC Price Gouger Is Left with Thousands of Products!

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RazorCut

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“It’s been a huge amount of whiplash,” he said. “From being in a situation where what I’ve got coming and going could potentially put my family in a really good place financially to ‘What the heck am I going to do with all of this?’”

Well ain’t Karma a bitch. Hope he goes broke with the rest of the parasites.
 

xps2340

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He has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

This is what happens when you jump into one product and use one channel to resell. He will probably end up donating everything.
Uhh....what? This is what happens when you pricegouge and do something that is clearly unethical. Most of the biggest companies have "one product" (CocaCola, BMW, Boeing, Purell). He has multiple channels (ebay, amazon, CL, FB, google ads etc). Which doesn't matter because, I repeat, he is pricegouging during a time of crisis and that something is clearly unethical.

This was the first feel good news story I've seen recently. This huckster was gonna screw people at their most vulnerable and now its almost like he wants people to feel sorry for him. I'd be 100% for law enforcement to arrest him and seize all his hoarded stock. That'll relieve him of his overstock problem.

It's easy to forget that there are REAL consequences to REAL people for his actions. How many of those 18000 bottles would've gone to (perhaps elderly) people who are now going to get sick?
 

MJ DeMarco

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A price gouger gets punched back in the face?

He deserves to go bankrupt, giving entrepreneurs a bad name.

Zero sympathy.
 

EVMaso

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We had a local couple do the same thing here, and because of public backlash they stopped.


There was some guy in the forum doing the same thing with masks, got a lot of kudos for it.

 

AgainstAllOdds

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There was some guy in the forum doing the same thing with masks, got a lot of kudos for it.

Yeah, but what you're leaving out is that @million$$$smile was providing a service. At that time, the virus wasn't serious in the U.S. Most of us were laughing at it.

He was taking supply that had no ready demand, and offering it indirectly to the Chinese who needed it - he was brokering the exchange between small shops in Missouri and China.

What these assholes like in the OP were doing is taking a product that has demand, rounding up all of it, creating an artificial scarcity, and then forcing people to pay the price gouging for the product. Zero value is being created. None.

That's the difference between @million$$$smile and the guy in the article. One's an a**hole. The other an opportunist that miscalculated the oncoming severity of the virus in the U.S.
 

million$$$smile

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That's the difference between @million$$$smile and the guy in the article. One's an a**hole. The other an opportunist that miscalculated the oncoming severity of the virus in the U.S.
Yes, at the time there were no reported cases in the US.
I sold many masks online. Every single mask was purchased domestically, though I am sure many were shipped overseas.
I also donated masks to those that I felt might need them or decrease their stress levels. My prices were similar to other sellers. Yes, they were radically higher than what they were once sold for. And they were unavailable in many areas of the US.

If I would have listed them all online for the old standard amount, I would have sold out within 24 hours. and possibly all would have gone to one or two buyers, because THEY would have most likely resold them at a much higher amount.

I've even sold some hand sanitizer and nitrile gloves for a decent profit.
In fact, I've been selling them for years. So what?

I find it ironic that @EVMaso puts me in the same company as others when he doesn't even know what I was selling the products for.
Sad.

Someone once said, those who can; do, those who can't criticize
 

VicFountain

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He has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

This is what happens when you jump into one product and use one channel to resell. He will probably end up donating everything.
Just imagine how many people got infected (and died) because they didn't manage to buy the necessary equipment to protect from the virus (whether these are masks, sanitizers etc.) due to the overpriced items. I know supply and demand, but the fact still remains.
 

million$$$smile

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Just imagine how many people got infected (and died) because they didn't manage to buy the necessary equipment to protect from the virus (whether these are masks, sanitizers etc.) due to the overpriced items. I know supply and demand, but the fact still remains
As well as just imagine how many people contracted the virus (and died) due to the fact that they didn't wash their hands?
 

MoreValue

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I was surprised that eBay even put a stop to this. I thought they didn't give a damn of what people sold. I mean does hand sanitizer expire? I guess he could sell afterwards.
 

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VicFountain

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As well as just imagine how many people contracted the virus (and died) due to the fact that they didn't wash their hands?
I didn't want to sound too politically correct. I just made an observation. And yes, you are right, there are several ways to contract the virus, and not washing your hands is surely one of these.

But there's definitely a small percentage of people who died because they did not get their equipment in time. Is it their fault? Maybe it, is maybe it is not, it doesn't matter. I'm talking objectively.
 

EVMaso

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I don't like ruffling feathers online, and I didn't mean to (and I apologize if it did), but I'll continue this discussion because it seems like it will be informative.

He was taking supply that had no ready demand
There was plenty of demand for the masks. Just not in the US at the time.

and offering it indirectly to the Chinese who needed it - he was brokering the exchange between small shops in Missouri and China.
Is the line between astute businessman and parasite gouger related to geographic location? I don't even know if that sentence makes sense in this day and age of e-commerce.

Also, the parasite gougers were listing them online as well, just like @million$$$smile. They are brokering the exchange between small shops in Missouri and China (and the rest of the world).

What these assholes like in the OP were doing is taking a product that has demand, rounding up all of it, creating an artificial scarcity, and then forcing people to pay the price gouging for the product. Zero value is being created. None.
You can apply that statement to million$$$smiles too, minus the forcing part. But then again it doesn't seem like the price gougers were forcing anyone to pay anything. They set a price for their good, and if someone was willing to pay, it goes to them.

What if the price gougers, instead of driving around to local stores to pick up these sanitizers and wipes, instead went to the regional supplier warehouses and bought them wholesale direct there?

Also, what's the line between price gouging and marking the price up on something for more than it's usually sold due to a crisis?

That's the difference between @million$$$smile and the guy in the article. One's an a**hole. The other an opportunist that miscalculated the oncoming severity of the virus in the U.S
I just finished reading (again) million$$$smile's thread, and I'm finding the line blurred between what he did and what the price gougers are doing. To me the only thing he did different from the gougers is that he was quicker than them, and thus was more under the radar. That (rightly) makes him the more astute businessman, but it puts him at least in the same class as them.

I find it ironic that @EVMaso puts me in the same company as others when he doesn't even know what I was selling the products for.
Sad.

Someone once said, those who can; do, those who can't criticize
If you have absolutely no qualms about what you did, ask yourself this: if a reporter from a major newspaper of record (NYT, WaPo, etc.) wanted to interview you for the business section over how you made a quick side hustle for $______ profit due to the Coronavirus, to inspire the next generation of entrepreneurs, would you do it? If you have any reservations, there's probably something to think about.
 

MoreValue

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I don't like ruffling feathers online, and I didn't mean to (and I apologize if it did), but I'll continue this discussion because it seems like it will be informative.



There was plenty of demand for the masks. Just not in the US at the time.



Is the line between astute businessman and parasite gouger related to geographic location? I don't even know if that sentence makes sense in this day and age of e-commerce.

Also, the parasite gougers were listing them online as well, just like @million$$$smile. They are brokering the exchange between small shops in Missouri and China (and the rest of the world).



You can apply that statement to million$$$smiles too, minus the forcing part. But then again it doesn't seem like the price gougers were forcing anyone to pay anything. They set a price for their good, and if someone was willing to pay, it goes to them.

What if the price gougers, instead of driving around to local stores to pick up these sanitizers and wipes, instead went to the regional supplier warehouses and bought them wholesale direct there?

Also, what's the line between price gouging and marking the price up on something for more than it's usually sold due to a crisis?



I just finished reading (again) million$$$smile's thread, and I'm finding the line blurred between what he did and what the price gougers are doing. To me the only thing he did different from the gougers is that he was quicker than them, and thus was more under the radar. That (rightly) makes him the more astute businessman, but it puts him at least in the same class as them.



If you have absolutely no qualms about what you did, ask yourself this: if a reporter from a major newspaper of record (NYT, WaPo, etc.) wanted to interview you for the business section over how you made a quick side hustle for $______ profit due to the Coronavirus, to inspire the next generation of entrepreneurs, would you do it? If you have any reservations, there's probably something to think about.
Spot on mate
 

S.Y.

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I find it ironic that @EVMaso puts me in the same company as others when he doesn't even know what I was selling the products for.
Sad.

Someone once said, those who can; do, those who can't criticize
I don't think it is ironic at all.

I had a look at your thread and here what you said:

Even if it is for your own needs.

Is it morally wrong to sell this product 2,3,4 times the normal price?
How about 10 times?? 100 times?
The pharmaceutical companies are doing that every day.
It is just part of capitalism.

It basically is about supply and demand.

You demand it, Someone will try to supply it.

Focus on being the supplier rather than the consumer.
This is pretty much what the dude in the OP link was doing.

It will be informative for all to debate it. Where is the line? What makes someone an a**hole and not another - in this particular context?

From my point of view, both of you did this:

If I would have listed them all online for the old standard amount, I would have sold out within 24 hours. and possibly all would have gone to one or two buyers, because THEY would have most likely resold them at a much higher amount.

Wondering what @MJ DeMarco and @Kak opinions are on this.

This is not attacking or criticizing @million$$$smile. A friend of mine spoke to me about the masks before the price went up and when they had still plenty available, and I didn't move on it. Not because I am a saint or something, but because I didn't see the opportunity. Had I, I would have probably done the same thing.
 

Andy Black

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I think it’s down to intent.


There’s a difference between:

Buying stock from people who don’t want it to sell to people who do.

vs

Buying stock from people who currently don’t want it *because* we predict they will desperately want it later (and thereby also increasing the scarcity and price).


It sounds like the person in the article knew demand for masks/etc in his area was going to go up so bought it ALL with the intent of selling it back at a higher price. I think he acted like a scumbag.

It sounds like this isn’t what @million$$$smile did.
 

Mattie

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He has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

This is what happens when you jump into one product and use one channel to resell. He will probably end up donating everything.
I think this is more about ethics, values, and morals in a crisis. The guy may have the intention to make a profit off the sickness of the masses by jacking up prices and hoarding supplies that most of the population needs to survive no matter who you are in the world.

Perhaps it's a hard lesson and he may be forced to donate it now and make no profit other than being humbled and having compassion for others.

While he can sell some to neighbors I'm sure the authorities will nail him as well if he uses it as an advantage over others in their situation.

I just seen the one where some entrepreneurs were recycling used face masks, washing them ironing them, and repackaging them and selling them for profit. They were caught obviously, but it's a risk some people are willing to take.
 

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There is a big difference...

@million$$$smile took on risk to ship the masks across the world and sell at a fair price locally. There was a chance they might never be needed or that many others did the same.

He provided value - if no one did this the amount of masks available in the US would be a lot less. His risk is protecting local lives right now.

These other folk did not provide any value. They simply rounded up all the local supply and tried to gauge people.

What have they added to help people? Nothing.

If anyone is going to complain about people shipping stuff from china and increasing the price then they might as well start with the whole dropping shipping model.

@million$$$smile saw a need coming (probably not on this level though) and put in work to be ready. I think he said he charged fair prices to willing buyers so I don’t see the issue.

I can see why they might look similar but there is a big difference.
 

Johnny boy

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Shutting down sales of necessary products in a pandemic is the unethical practice.

People are in need of something and amazon thinks they're the "good people" by blocking sales between two willing parties just because someone is making a big margin?

This is why I like my more traditional businesses. When I profit off of someone else's labor, it's just business. I feel like I'm getting away with murder. But when someone else tries to turn a profit and offer products to people who really need it, they're "scum"? I can make $2000 from a few hours of work and arguably little skill just off of perceived value, but these guys are jerks? lol. These dudes sell necessities to people willing to pay those prices in a free market. That's how it's supposed to work.

Artificially low prices results in people who have the least need buying up supply which limits supply for the people who need it the most and are willing to pay. Part of the point of the free market is price discrimination to allocate resources properly and find natural efficiency. Now, teenagers with low risk are buying up things because it's cheap and still worth it, leaving less for elderly people who are much more at risk and more willing to pay for what they need.

That said, it is not the truth we are judged by, but the opinions of those around us, regardless if those people are stupid or not. It's their responsibility to understand that idiots will call it "price gouging" and cockblock their profits.
 

RazorCut

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That said, it is not the truth we are judged by, but the opinions of those around us, regardless if those people are stupid or not. It's their responsibility to understand that idiots will call it "price gouging" and cockblock their profits.
Maybe you need to buy a new moral compass as yours is sadly broken.


These dudes sell necessities to people willing to pay those prices in a free market. That's how it's supposed to work.
What they are doing is depriving other people of those resources just so they can profiteer. This is hand sanitizer, not toffee popcorn.
i.e. something that could save lives. I think the swell of public condemnation should be enough for you to maybe rethink your moral code. If not, well I’m happy to stay way on the other side of the fence.
 

Johnny boy

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Maybe you need to buy a new moral compass as yours is sadly broken.




What they are doing is depriving other people of those resources just so they can profiteer. This is hand sanitizer, not toffee popcorn.
i.e. something that could save lives. I think the swell of public condemnation should be enough for you to maybe rethink your moral code. If not, well I’m happy to stay way on the other side of the fence.
It is something that could save lives. And now you can't buy it in many places. And that's the problem. There's limited supply. How should it be distributed?...
 

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RazorCut

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It is something that could save lives. And now you can't buy it in many places. And that's the problem. There's limited supply. How should it be distributed?...
That’s a very good question Johnny. I know the answer is not through the greed of an individual who wants to charge $70 those.

I was in a store this morning and they had signs up on all checkouts saying the maximum number of a single item of purchase was being capped at 4. That’s all items and I think that was a good response. Then I hear someone complaining that what if they had 5 children and wanted to get them each a bar of chocolate. I have 5 children. So one gets something else. So bloody what!!
 

Johnny boy

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That’s a very good question Johnny. I know the answer is not through the greed of an individual who wants to charge $70 those.

I was in a store this morning and they had signs up on all checkouts saying the maximum number of a single item of purchase was being capped at 4. That’s all items and I think that was a good response. Then I hear someone complaining that what if they had 5 children and wanted to get them each a bar of chocolate. I have 5 children. So one gets something else. So bloody what!!
Oh yeah they had that at my store too.

We just walked back inside 5 minutes later just like everyone else.

People that still don't need it as much can still buy the 5.

Everything is discrimination. You must choose who gets what in a situation with limited supply. The question is which form of discrimination should be implemented. Your solution is first-come first serve. So anyone who's late misses out. My solution is price discrimination, because the person who's willing to pay more probably needs it more. Also, it will put a more appropriate limit on the amount purchased. Even if the limit is 5 at a store, someone that only needs 1 will only buy 1 if the price is high. Price discrimination is more effective.

Is the young person buying them that doesn't need it as bad as the elderly being greedy by using up resources? I think that could be a fair argument. Or is it just the person selling it that's wrong? Is an elderly person angry that they are paying only a few hundred dollars to possibly save their life? Or are they extremely willing to pay that price? I would bet there's a lot of people who wish they could get some supplies but can't, and that they would be extremely thankful for an opportunity to pay a lot more for the things they need.
 

RazorCut

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The thing is those that are at most risk are more often than not the poor. They can’t take time off work because they have little or no savings or they are old and living on welfare. They can’t pay $70 for a bottle of sanitiser because they need that money for electric to keep warm or food for their kids.
 
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cmor16

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My solution is price discrimination, because the person who's willing to pay more probably needs it more. Also, it will put a more appropriate limit on the amount purchased. Even if the limit is 5 at a store, someone that only needs 1 will only buy 1 if the price is high. Price discrimination is more effective.
I'm not sure if I totally get what your saying, but it did give me a thought. I work for a retail company, in the pricing department. We actually offer limit pricing to limit purchases on exceptionally good deals (under 3 units $1.50 ea, every unit > 3, $1.99 ea). You could theoretically set the over 3 price to $100.00 to deter stockpiling. You can buy more, but you have to pay through the nose.

That doesn't stop people from leaving and coming back for more or sending each family member to a different checkout but it should help.
 
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Johnny boy

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The thing is those that are at most risk are more often than not the poor. They can’t take time off work because they have little or no savings or they are old and living on welfare. They can’t pay $70 for a bottle of sanitise because they need that money for electric to keep warm or food for their kids.
Then they don't buy it. The people who are otherwise the same but made better financial decisions get to buy it. That seems more fair than first come first serve. We just disagree on the best way to discriminate distribution. But it doesn't make me a dick.
 

Johnny boy

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I'm not sure if I totally get what your saying, but it did give me a thought. I work for a retail company, in the pricing department. We actually offer limit pricing to limit purchases an exceptionally good deals (under 3 units $1.50 ea, every unit > 3, $1.99 ea). You could theoretically set the over 3 price to $100.00 to deter stockpiling. You can buy more, but you have to pay through the nose.

That doesn't stop people from leaving and coming back for more or sending each family member to a different checkout but it should help.
It's a compromise and it's better than not raising prices at all. It's a decent option.
 

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I sure hope Amazon is blocking account on a case by case basis... because if not... legitimate people that were selling these items before might get shut down... when they did absolutely nothing wrong!!
 

RazorCut

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The fact that someone is willing and able to pay $70 bucks for some squirty soap is because they (or their relatives) provided enough value to society to be able to do so. End of story.
Well I’m glad all the world doesn’t think like you. You should thank your lucky stars that you were born healthy and not with a major disability or in abject poverty, or happen to be 10 and reliant on disabled parents to care for you.

Your outlook will probably change as you get older, travel more and hopefully become wiser in doing so. In the meantime why don’t you and all that side with you pay over the odds to those profiteering so those of less financial ability can get their needed products at a store at normal rates?

I’m sure they would thank you for your contribution.
 

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