Pre-selling/marketing advice

[oldirty]

Hello all,

Has anyone had success marketing a product (software, physical product, etc.) before actually creating said product? If so, are there any do's and don'ts that should be followed?

Here's why I ask:

I have narrowed down my ideas into one executable SaaS concept. It is in a market that has relatively low competition, but could be used by many people. It meets the criteria of offering value to a large audience. More importantly this product offers a value skew to an already existing product that is just beginning to gain traction. Because there is clearly a need (as shown by the existing solution/product) I feel confident in this concept.

My big hold up is, I know nothing about creating software, and do not want to delay 1-2 years for me to figure it out. So, I absolutely will have to hire someone to develop my software. I want to verify my concept by marketing the product before actually investing in building it. Also, I feel that if I market it as "coming soon" or "in development" I can build a customer base before releasing the product and could reduce the time between release and beginning to make sales.

Is this advisable? How should I go about marketing something I don't actually have? Should I create a landing page showing a software mock-up, in attempt to build a contact list? Any advice would be great, I'm hopeful someone has been down this road. Thanks

 

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[100k]

Check out Dane Maxwell's content and his website "the foundation".

 

[Andy Black]

@eliquid ?

...

My thoughts would be to consider selling the solution as a service first if possible?

Maybe listen to:

• www.tropicalmba.com/services
• AndyTalks with @Nicoknowsbest about Goal-Setting and moving from Freelancer through Agency
• AndyTalks with @Scot about Sales, Silence, and Building Marketplaces

 

[oldirty]

@eliquid ?

My thoughts would be to consider selling the solution as a service first if possible?

Thanks for the materials. Unfortunately the solution is the software I plan to offer, so I couldn't start by offering a service and then turning it into the software. I can make nice(fake) mock-ups screenshots of the program and what I envision it doing, then work the marketing hard, but I just don't get the warm and fuzzy about selling (not actually taking money but marketing) a solution that isn't real or close to being real yet. Or is this normal operating procedure?

 

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[eliquid]

i'll jump in, in a sec.

Thanks @Andy Black for pointing out.

Eating a big burrito atm. Sorry but burritos come first. Always.

 

[Marco Cuevas]

i'll jump in, in a sec.

Thanks @Andy Black for pointing out.

Eating a big burrito atm. Sorry but burritos come first. Always.

Classic

 

[oldirty]

i'll jump in, in a sec.

Thanks @Andy Black for pointing out.

Eating a big burrito atm. Sorry but burritos come first. Always.

Thanks for the lunch idea. Looking forward to your response.

 

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[eliquid]

Thanks for the materials. Unfortunately the solution is the software I plan to offer, so I couldn't start by offering a service and then turning it into the software. I can make nice(fake) mock-ups screenshots of the program and what I envision it doing, then work the marketing hard, but I just don't get the warm and fuzzy about selling (not actually taking money but marketing) a solution that isn't real or close to being real yet. Or is this normal operating procedure?

So here is the thing. You said this was a SaaS. That means software as a service. The meaning behind it can mean lots of things, but traditionally you more than likely can run this as a service if it's a real SaaS. You might not like to or might not be able to run 100% as a service, but some core MVP of it should be able to be ran as such.

This is one way to test the market and see if you get traffic.

Secondly if you are going to rely on someone else to code it and you plan on throwing up a coming soon launch page collecting emails while the person builds it, forget about it.

The time frame will be too long more than likely, unless you can hire 5 people to code and manage it right off the bat. If I sign up to your product today and have to wait 9-12 months for it to be ready, Im gonna forget about it and when you email me I am going to be cold and more than likely unsub from the list. If I am a curious competitor and you give me enough info, I'm going to just copy what you are telling me you are going to build and watch your demo and launch it myself with my current dev team ( I am not talking about me, myself... Im putting myself into your possible competitors shoes ).

The best way you are going to sell this is to have some authority of your own on the subject and to also have a warm audience.

What's the best way to do that? Start blogging or podcasting about your topic.

Notice I didn't say your SaaS.

By coming out and giving value, you build trust and authority. By repeating that process you create a relationship. With a relationship you create a warm audience receptive to you. When the time is right and the value is enough, they will respond to your offer when you have one.

So lets look at it this way...

You want to build a SaaS that helps give local blacksmiths leads online by getting them reviews on Yelp. You don't start blogging about Yelp reviews and your software... you start blogging about online marketing and lead generation tactics that help blacksmiths.

As you blog and podcast ( or w/e else you do ), you build up a list and audience that is highly targeted while building your SaaS. They don't grow cold or think of you as a one hit salesmen on their FB wall.

If after this work has been done and no one is engaging with you and your material, you know you probably have a dud. Or maybe a SaaS that only a tiny amount of people are interested in.

Once you have done enough work, you could offer the core MVP as a service and if that works, continue on building the full SaaS.

Sometimes you have to do the things that don't scale, in order to do the things that do scale.

 

[oldirty]

So here is the thing. You said this was a SaaS. That means software as a service. The meaning behind it can mean lots of things, but traditionally you more than likely can run this as a service if it's a real SaaS. You might not like to or might not be able to run 100% as a service, but some core MVP of it should be able to be ran as such.

This is one way to test the market and see if you get traffic.

Secondly if you are going to rely on someone else to code it and you plan on throwing up a coming soon launch page collecting emails while the person builds it, forget about it.

The time frame will be too long more than likely, unless you can hire 5 people to code and manage it right off the bat. If I sign up to your product today and have to wait 9-12 months for it to be ready, Im gonna forget about it and when you email me I am going to be cold and more than likely unsub from the list. If I am a curious competitor and you give me enough info, I'm going to just copy what you are telling me you are going to build and watch your demo and launch it myself with my current dev team ( I am not talking about me, myself... Im putting myself into your possible competitors shoes ).

The best way you are going to sell this is to have some authority of your own on the subject and to also have a warm audience.

What's the best way to do that? Start blogging or podcasting about your topic.

Notice I didn't say your SaaS.

By coming out and giving value, you build trust and authority. By repeating that process you create a relationship. With a relationship you create a warm audience receptive to you. When the time is right and the value is enough, they will respond to your offer when you have one.

So lets look at it this way...

You want to build a SaaS that helps give local blacksmiths leads online by getting them reviews on Yelp. You don't start blogging about Yelp reviews and your software... you start blogging about online marketing and lead generation tactics that help blacksmiths.

As you blog and podcast ( or w/e else you do ), you build up a list and audience that is highly targeted while building your SaaS. They don't grow cold or think of you as a one hit salesmen on their FB wall.

If after this work has been done and no one is engaging with you and your material, you know you probably have a dud. Or maybe a SaaS that only a tiny amount of people are interested in.

Once you have done enough work, you could offer the core MVP as a service and if that works, continue on building the full SaaS.

Sometimes you have to do the things that don't scale, in order to do the things that do scale.

Thanks for an awesome response. That was the swift kick between the legs I needed right now. Do you recommend this approach even if I chose to have the software develoed first thing and avoid the "coming soon" period?

What if the software is the service? In other words the service wouldn't exist without the software. Here's an example:

Lets say I wanted to develop a new type of fire alarm system and this system happened to be software based. Obviously I can't offer this system without the software ( I wouldn't want to stand in buildings and alert people of a fire, nor would anyone pay me). So, if I understand what your saying, I could blog about fire safety, or perhaps offer fire safety consulting, or something like that? This will allow me to build a list while developing the actually software I want sell. Just want to make sure I'm tracking this.

Thanks.

 

[Andy Black]

So here is the thing. You said this was a SaaS. That means software as a service. The meaning behind it can mean lots of things, but traditionally you more than likely can run this as a service if it's a real SaaS. You might not like to or might not be able to run 100% as a service, but some core MVP of it should be able to be ran as such.

This is one way to test the market and see if you get traffic.

Secondly if you are going to rely on someone else to code it and you plan on throwing up a coming soon launch page collecting emails while the person builds it, forget about it.

The time frame will be too long more than likely, unless you can hire 5 people to code and manage it right off the bat. If I sign up to your product today and have to wait 9-12 months for it to be ready, Im gonna forget about it and when you email me I am going to be cold and more than likely unsub from the list. If I am a curious competitor and you give me enough info, I'm going to just copy what you are telling me you are going to build and watch your demo and launch it myself with my current dev team ( I am not talking about me, myself... Im putting myself into your possible competitors shoes ).

The best way you are going to sell this is to have some authority of your own on the subject and to also have a warm audience.

What's the best way to do that? Start blogging or podcasting about your topic.

Notice I didn't say your SaaS.

By coming out and giving value, you build trust and authority. By repeating that process you create a relationship. With a relationship you create a warm audience receptive to you. When the time is right and the value is enough, they will respond to your offer when you have one.

So lets look at it this way...

You want to build a SaaS that helps give local blacksmiths leads online by getting them reviews on Yelp. You don't start blogging about Yelp reviews and your software... you start blogging about online marketing and lead generation tactics that help blacksmiths.

As you blog and podcast ( or w/e else you do ), you build up a list and audience that is highly targeted while building your SaaS. They don't grow cold or think of you as a one hit salesmen on their FB wall.

If after this work has been done and no one is engaging with you and your material, you know you probably have a dud. Or maybe a SaaS that only a tiny amount of people are interested in.

Once you have done enough work, you could offer the core MVP as a service and if that works, continue on building the full SaaS.

Sometimes you have to do the things that don't scale, in order to do the things that do scale.

Rep @eliquid. Love your reply. That's how I'd go about it, which is comforting to know as you have a SaaS and I don't.

Lets say I wanted to develop a new type of fire alarm system and this system happened to be software based. Obviously I can't offer this system without the software ( I wouldn't want to stand in buildings and alert people of a fire, nor would anyone pay me). So, if I understand what your saying, I could blog about fire safety, or perhaps offer fire safety consulting, or something like that? This will allow me to build a list while developing the actually software I want sell. Just want to make sure I'm tracking this

If you build a solution but can't get people to know about the solution, then you might as well not have built it.

If you build a solution but don't engage the market while you're building it, then you'll likely not build something they want anyway.

Maybe listen to:

• www.tropicalmba.com/services
• AndyTalks with @Nicoknowsbest about Goal-Setting and moving from Freelancer through Agency
• AndyTalks with @Scot about Sales, Silence, and Building Marketplaces

Have you listened to that tropicalmba podcast yet? Or the two recordings I did with fellow forum members that I thought most relevant (the one with @Scott seems very similar to this thread). In that call with @Scott we mention this thread:

• Stop "Building" Stuff

In the tropicalmba.com podcast they start by laughing that "everyone's running to SaaS", then they lay out their sliding scale. I can't remember their version of the sliding scale, but I see myself as moving along this sliding scale:

• Employee
  
  
• ... to Contractor (I sit on client sites doing the same work, but self-employed)
  
  
• ... to Freelancer (I don't sit on client sites, but do the same work)
  
  
• ... to Agency Owner (I have a team helping me do the work. For the longest while this was bespoke consulting work for clients in too many different verticals)
  
  
• ... to Productised Service (providing a similar rinse-and-repeat service to similar clients - Blacksmiths for instance)
  
  
• ... to Platform (SaaS for Blacksmiths, Blacksmiths directory, etc)

I'd say I'm part Freelancer, part Agency Owner with bespoke clients, part Productised Service.


My limited experience gained as I go through this process for my first time is that you can't skip steps. Trying to go to building a SaaS without having had high-friction clients (who are paying you to solve their problems) seems like a big leap to me. Maybe others can do it, or maybe they just go through the steps quicker because they've done it before.

As someone wiser than me advised: "It's a journey, and it doesn't happen overnight."


Dan Norris has a great wee book called "The 7 Day Startup".

In it he introduced me to the concept of Product-Founder fit. Is this Product right for YOU at this moment in your entrepreneurial journey?

Can YOU launch this idea in 7 days?

Can YOU make a sale in 7 days?

If you need $100k in capital to startup and launch but can't access it in 7 days (it's not lying around in your account), then maybe consider some other venture that doesn't need $100k to startup.


I'm 100% NOT saying this is the only way. I'm just finding personally, that taking on simple things that I can sell within 7 days gets me momentum. It gets me engaging with the market. It gets revenue coming in. It means clients pay me to build people, processes, and technology to solve their actual problems rather than problems I think or hope they have.


Hope that helps.

 

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[Andy Black]

Sometimes you have to do the things that don't scale, in order to do the things that do scale.

As per Paul Graham here: www.paulgraham.com/ds.html

 

[samuraijack]

Hello all,
More importantly this product offers a value skew to an already existing product that is just beginning to gain traction. Because there is clearly a need (as shown by the existing solution/product) I feel confident in this concept.

I would say take the risk and just go for it IF:

• you are building just a better version of this existing product AND
• it is something you use or you know people who use it AND have recognized your value skew
• you are comfortable with losing the money/time to build it (if you didn't make a profit would it ruin your life?)

 

[Michael Raphael]

Has anyone had success marketing a product (software, physical product, etc.) before actually creating said product? If so, are there any do's and don'ts that should be followed?

I am doing this right now... feel free to contact me for advice.

The time frame will be too long more than likely, unless you can hire 5 people to code and manage it right off the bat.

He is absolutely right here. I had a dev team and things went south quick. I've had people waiting months for our tech. This is a terrible situation to be in... people forget, get frustrated and dont even try the product out of spite later.

If you need a dev team I partnered with someone to help me with this so we can get it done faster. This may be a better option. I use my other company dev team of 3 guys (part time) now to finish this product. Some weeks we get massive changes others its terribly slow. Unless you have a full-time team it can be really difficult to launch a SaaS. I've gotten 50k of pre-orders w/o a product... it does nothing for the business, cause checks don't come until a product comes.

 

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[oldirty]

I am doing this right now... feel free to contact me for advice.



He is absolutely right here. I had a dev team and things went south quick. I've had people waiting months for our tech. This is a terrible situation to be in... people forget, get frustrated and dont even try the product out of spite later.

If you need a dev team I partnered with someone to help me with this so we can get it done faster. This may be a better option. I use my other company dev team of 3 guys (part time) now to finish this product. Some weeks we get massive changes others its terribly slow. Unless you have a full-time team it can be really difficult to launch a SaaS. I've gotten 50k of pre-orders w/o a product... it does nothing for the business, cause checks don't come until a product comes.

When you say partnered with someone, do you mean you took on a business partner to help with the software development? How long before you started development did you begin marketing your software?

 

[Michael Raphael]

I have a bit of an advantage in that I own a marketing firm that also does software development. I have connections to lots of developers and instead of spending 250k to build something I knew I could give a developer a % and have it taken care of.

So my internal team built a massive portion of it, and what I needed a bit more of an expertise I outsourced and brought the person on as a partner. Win/Win cause now they also do some internal projects for other business haha.

 

[inputchip]

The time frame will be too long more than likely, unless you can hire 5 people to code and manage it right off the bat. If I sign up to your product today and have to wait 9-12 months for it to be ready, Im gonna forget about it and when you email me I am going to be cold and more than likely unsub from the list.

@eliquid, is 9-12 months a realistic length of production time for an uncomplicated saas product? Dane Maxwell advocates that the MVP software solution should take less than 12 weeks to build. Is this a pipe-dream? I'm sure it depends on the complexity of the software, but Dane tells his audience to "choose" problems with solutions that can be built quickly.

What's the best way to do that? Start blogging or podcasting about your topic.

Any advice for entering a market saturated with podcasts and blogs? How else can I provide value to my chosen market?

I am doing this right now... feel free to contact me for advice.

Can you post some of your tips here for everyone to benefit from?

 

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[Michael Raphael]

When building SaaS you should have a click-thru demo that you can walk through. I can privately show you one for example. This is a potential solution to the 12 week process.

This clickthru demo is a perfect tool that shows UI/UX without actual functions to potential buyers. It's almost like a MVP. Think of it as a storyboard of what the real product looks like. From this you can get feedback, make improvements, pivot, etc. and take your SaaS product to market with how the market actually responds/wants it.

I use invisionapp.com it is absolutely brilliant. You connect every screen you upload to each "button" so it looks/feels like a real product without having to build one. Everything is static so you can't make changes but it shows the idea/concept of what your product will do.

 

[eliquid]

@eliquid, is 9-12 months a realistic length of production time for an uncomplicated saas product? Dane Maxwell advocates that the MVP software solution should take less than 12 weeks to build. Is this a pipe-dream? I'm sure it depends on the complexity of the software, but Dane tells his audience to "choose" problems with solutions that can be built quickly.

I know people that can build something in a few days. They're developers ( or know some ) though and have most of the pieces of routine code laying around from other builds ( payment scripts for Stripe, membership logins, etc ). It just depends what you are making.

I once built a SaaS back in the day for people who wanted links in SEO. All I did was buy 2 products ( I needed them anyways personally ) and put them on a VPS. Both of these products were software someone else made and sold. It was designed to be used on your desktop when you wanted to run it.

Anyways, I put them on my VPS server and ran it and then built a website with Wordpress and OptimizePress. OptimizePress took care of membership and payment issues every month for me, and I just signed people up to my new service. The members area hosted the reports and billing info.

The last piece of the straw was having the desktop apps on the VPS talk to my website ( reports, etc ) and I was able to figure that out with XAMPP and some PHP coding ( which I know ).

Total time to make that SaaS, about 4 days and it was 100% complete.

@eliquidAny advice for entering a market saturated with podcasts and blogs? How else can I provide value to my chosen market?

Who's to say you can't provide value doing the same?

There are 100's if not thousands of books on business, but MJ pumped out 2 that are gold.

Everyone has a unique angle/perspective to everything in life. Your's could be someone else's value.

Past that, you could start giving away case studies, mini-courses, and ultimate guides.