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Alex W.

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Going to add this in too...

Even though this isn't "PPC", it is highly related -> Split Testing.

I don't like traditional A/B split testing.

Most people hear and think about this and dump it into 50/50 tests, which means 2 version of an ad or LP running at 50% to each.

Bullshit.

You're not always going to make a "better" or improved version of what you're testing.

Throw up a B version and have it fail, and you just lost potentially 50% of your leads/sales.

Now, there is software like Optimizely for LPs that will let you set the percentage to A as maybe 80% and the percentage of B as 20% which is a much safer approach ( if you know that A converts well ).

Another way to look at this is A/A/B testing where you have 50% go to the first A, and then the left over 50% is split between A and B ( effectively making a 75/25 split). The only reason I bring this up is some software out there will not let you do an 80/20 like Optimizely as there is no percentage input for it. For these types of software/methods, you are just adding in A again.

But this isn't just for landing pages, you can apply this to your ads as well.

No sense in making ads that might cost you impressions and clicks if they are bad ads ( just like my bad LP example above ).

When you are putting in ads, stick to not wasting money on inserting 10-20 ads at a time that are all different if you already have a winner.

I believe Adwords campaign experiments (ACE) allow you to do the same in regard to A/B testing (no A/B/n testing, yet). I don't have direct experience, though, as I'm currently using 3rd party tracking software for my testing needs.

On a similar note, do you have much experience with Analytics content experiments (not to be confused with adwords campaign experiments)? Still in beta, I think, but it's the easiest way I know of to A/B/n test macro aspects of your camps (besides 3rd party tracking maybe). Bids @ the ad group level (or KW level, if you want to get that micro), LPs, etc... You can also divert a pre-defined percentage of traffic for your tests. I think Google sets a max of 10 variations per experiment. May be worth checking out when setting up camps from scratch to get a good hold of what angles, creative variations or bid levels convert best for your offer.
 
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Yussef

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Try it out.

It might not work on an old ad, but it could.

Let me know how it goes though


Hmmm very interesting results indeed. I duplicated a PPE x4 and got very interesting results. Relevance scores have me disappointed. 3s and 4s. argh
 

eliquid

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Hmmm very interesting results indeed. I duplicated a PPE x4 and got very interesting results. Relevance scores have me disappointed. 3s and 4s. argh

Was the interesting results the Relevence scores or something else?
 

Yussef

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Was the interesting results the Relevence scores or something else?

The interesting part was the CPE difference that varied from .30 to 3.00 and the amount of difference in engagement.

I think I make (and have been making) the typical mistake Sanj spoke about that 90% of marketers make. Choosing a product before clearly defining an audience.
 
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Yussef

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This is what I try to tell people about Ad networks like FB.

You cant always blame your product or audience. The fact you make the ad 4 more times and got wildly different results is proof sometimes it is just out of your hands.

However, you should def. improve what you are doing. That could be y our product or demo or something else.

Always make copies of ads though. When you find something that could be your next winner, you dont want to throw it away just because 1 ad didnt get you sales from FB. Make copies of it and run it and be sure.


Thanks for the feedback man. Trying to crack the code.
 

Mac

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I like the pixel strategy. That's some ninja marketing right there. Did you use a custom pixel or a Facebook pixel to do this? If custom, how do you make one?
 

Carnage

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Thanks so much for this, will read this weekend.
 

Yussef

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Google loves to take away useful info from you that can help you be more profitable.

You think I'm crazy, but it's true and I could list a few ways they have done this over the years. On a broad level, their move to take away rotate indef. on ads was a huge issue. They brought it back a long time afterwards luckily. They also started matching your exacts to mis-spells and similar terms a while back too.

I could go on.

However, lets focus on what they want to change on you now.. They are taking away converted clicks metric.

Now you will have to deal with looking at all your conversions and it really can mess up reporting and optimizing.

Not all is lost though.. I have seen where you will soon have the ability to do device level bids on tablets. Should be rolling out to accounts soon and will help a of us kill off traffic that does well on Desktop and Mobile, but not Tablets.


E you are giving up the Gold
 

geekboy

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Thanks for the thread @eliquid

I have a question about AdWords maybe you or @Andy Black might be able to answer...

Since Google got rid of the side Ad's back around Feb how do you stop your impression share going down due to rank if you're not in the top ads?

Previously it would not be an issue to be in positions say 4-7 along the side bar and in some cases might be preferable due to a lower CPC/CPA, and your CTR could still be ok not being in the top ad's. But now if you're not on the top row the CTR is virtually nothing because nobody scrolls to the bottom and then it starts reducing your impression share due to rank. Any suggestions on the best way to tackle this?

Also about taking notes of changes you make; I don't know if you're aware but Adwords does have a history of anything you change under Tools -> Change History which seems to give all the info needed without having to manually note everything. Even with an undo button for each action
 

johnp

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Thanks so much for your response to my question. That really helped me.

I place bids on to build up an "average position" rule.

When you say build up an "average position" rule. Do you mean that you're using the automated rules in Adwords?

Or something like a Bid to Average Position script?
 

hatedsalesrep

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Hey awesome thread. It's great that you are educating others in the importance of all forms of marketing, not just organic. I've been doing Digital Marketing for a while and currently learning how to leverage paid advertising channels and data analytics for the most accurate data driven reports.

I am applying everywhere for an internship/freelance gigs but it is very hard to land something unless you already possess 3+ years of experience. While I have extensive experience in the social media marketing, and SEO side of the spectrum, my knowledge in the data & paid advertising world are fairly new.

What do you recommend for a 20 year old looking to get some experience while getting some income on the side? I don't mind a free gig, or a free trial of my work, but having already 3+ years of experience in organic marketing, FB ads, SEO, deters me from doing 2-3 months of free internship.

I'd really appreciate some input..Thanks again!
 
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Aston_M

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Are these people actively asking you that face to face ( or on the phone ) and then verbally rejecting you based on you saying you don't have the 3 years experience? Are you upfront telling them you don't meet their requirements and don't have 3 years PPC experience?

I've found most times what people ask for in print ( or digital ) about the job, isn't what you end up doing in your job anyways 90% of the time.

Most never even check references, your work background, or care if you have this or that requirement ( like a cert, a degree, etc ) even though they said ALL of that in the description of the job.

So if you aren't applying to the jobs/gigs because you think they will deny you ( or if you are telling them upfront you don't meet their requirements ), you are missing a lot of opportunity. I'd only worry if you are constantly getting people that verbally tell you no after you applied specifically for the lack of 3+ years experience in PPC.

Also, skip applying for internships. You have 3 years digital marketing experience. When you apply for an internship, they will already look at you as a noob to begin with. Don't set the expectation up that way.

For freelance ( paid contractor ), it is tough. I know this personally.

As much as people tout they "hire only the best" and they are "the most experienced and top talent agency", what they really mean is "we hire the best of who we can afford, at the time they don't have a job, and are within driving distance to the office"

No joke.

The best PPC freelancer might be you sitting in Portland, Oregon. However, the big agency in New York is looking for someone to fill their role and won't hire you because:
  • You cost too much. They only want to pay $42,000 a year
  • You're remote. They only want people that can come into the office daily or are on their timezone.
  • You're freelancer, and they don't hire self-employed types because most of them are not sheep/drones and won't take orders well.
That's honestly how it goes 98% of the time.

Even the "best companies" in the world that work in digital hardly ever hire remote workers. They always want to pay the lowest rates. They always want you in the office and to be within X miles of their office.

So what's left is this small sliver of the pie that is about 2% of the market that will hire you no matter where you live, pay you decently for it, and won't mind that you have some clients on the side too.

And of that 2%, you have a ton of competition going for it.

Granted, it's getting better every day... but it's still a grind and those unicorn gigs/jobs are hard to find as a freelancer.

So what's left for you to do?

Go into business for yourself as an "agency" and start selling clients your offers instead of trying to get a job or freelance gig with an agency.

But if you do go the job/freelancer for an agency route, don't worry about their requirements. I've almost never met any of the ones I took on and I applied to all kinds in the past.

Example:
I've never once took the Adwords certification in my life.

I've applied to jobs and gigs that specifically asked for it. I still applied anyways. Never once has anyone asked me if I am certified and never once has anyone bothered to check. I've worked at agencies where this was a requirement for all the team members, though I've never took it.

And why should I take it?
  • I was buying PPC before Google ever had Adwords ( I was buying clicks on GoTo ).
  • I was buying Adwords ads before it was a self-service program and WAAAAY before they had the certification
  • I've spent over $500,000+ of my own money ( from my personal checking account ) on my own ads ( not a client's money or an agencies money ).
Yeah, I honestly see no need in me personally taking a test to prove my abilities.

The more important note is it never stopped me applying to those jobs and gigs stating I needed to be certified and never once has anyone ever checked or asked me about it in an interview.

Past that, you can start running campaigns for yourself on your own dime. That will build up some experience.

You can also apply for gigs on UpWork and set it to a low low price hourly to get some gigs in.

You can also reach out to others and offer to work on a "pay per performance" model. No risk on the client, and then you're also not working for free either. Plus you are building up a book of your own business too.

Getting a couple of those under your belt, while also getting certified, should help you a lot with experience and "references".

.
Can I ask your opinion on landing pages, I'm running a PPC campaign for my employer, a large car dealer, I'm bidding on used car search terms and sending traffic to the used car results page relating to the search term the user used for example if someone searches on Google for 'used ford fiesta for sale' they would be sent to a page listing all our used Ford Fiesta stock. I read on a PPC blog that I should be using a custom landing page, what's your thoughts on this, it's a bit tricky for a car dealer with lots of various makes and models.
 

TheDillon__

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Actually both.

Primarily, I "buy the data" and then run this pivot to give me an idea of where I need to be and then run an Adwords Rule for it.

Warning, you can't just mass do this in an account. You need to drill down. Don't think that you will just run this account wide and figure out you need to be X position in general.

You need to be looking at your Ad Groups, if setup properly, and finding out what's the best position per Ad Group and setting up rules that way once you have bought enough statistically relevant data for that Ad Group. Some groups will contain terms that do better for you in 2nd position, some might show 3rd to be best, etc. I've found some where I needed to be 5th.

I'll add columns to the above pivot too, to make sure I'm working with good data. They are not shown above, but it depends on what you feel you need. For myself, I might add in the number of impressions and clicks, and the number of conversions. A Cost/Conv of $222 might look good ( because I am in highly competitive and expensive verticals ), but it's not all that great if I find out that's because I had 1 conversion at that position with a spend of $222. I can't rely on data like that....

I also run Adwords Scripts built in JavaScript too for this.

Why both? Sometimes I need something with little more "umph" and kicks in when other metrics are met that are not supplied by Adwords Rules.

For example, I might need to have a "frequency" that is "last 45 days" or "last Tuesday". You can't do these in Adwords, so I build them out in Adwords Scripts.

You also can't do trends either in Adwords Rules, so again.. script time.

I also do it based on "Requirements" which are limited in Adwords Rules. For example, I have my own custom "metrics" that go past Cost/Conv or CTR and other well known metrics. I can't do those rules based on the custom metrics I have of my own, so again it's script time.

Which one I choose is based entirely on need. Some accounts don't have enough data or need for a script and will do just fine with a rule instead.

.

On this - I want to talk a little bit more about scripts.

How much JavaScript knowledge would one need in order to build a decent script?

What are the capabilities of AdWords scripts, what are they most commonly used to automate?

Is there any potential for a script as a product? I.e., if I use a script to automate something for AdWords that other marketers would really like, is there a way to sell one's script?

I'm very new to coding but having a blast learning so far. I'm just trying to scope out what the possibilities are.

Adurite!
 
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johnp

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As far as the suntan lotion stuff... Could the report have been reporting/covering more than Adwords when it came to sales? I've seen a few agencies that handle Adwords for clients, but they build reports for Amazon, Adwords, eBay and other channels for the client when it comes to revenue even though the agency doesn't manage those channels.

Thanks for the reply about the auto stuff. Makes complete sense.

As far the reporting goes for the suntan stuff. They did target different platforms like you mentioned, but also broke down all metrics by platform. Reporting was actually very good. They were a pretty good ppc company to work with, for the most part.

Since everyone thinks this is good, no one is going in to bother with making a better ad or a better LP to raise the Quality Score. Things are fine "as-is" for the owner/company. The agency doesn't bring it up because their customer is happy.

This was my exact experience working with an agency.
 

TheDillon__

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Thanks for the wonderful feedback, all! It seems like I'll keep my focus on AdWords (and keep my coding focus pointed towards Web Dev, thanks @Fox)

Now, to start the next line of discussion, let's talk about split testing ads.

I'm a big proponent of the idea that there should always be at least two ads running per ad group at all times. That said, in what way do we do this?

As David Bullock said, "First test forests, then the trees, then the branches, then test leaves."

However, there are thousands of different ways that you could write an ad for any campaign! Let's compare some ads for divorce lawyers.


.


1.
Marriage Separation?
Spouse wants out? Don't do anything before you see this solution now.
sitelink.com

2.
How to End a Marriage
Avoid the 21 biggest mistakes. Let Dr. Blackstone show you step-by-step!
sitelink.com

3.
Who is your wife with?
Is she sleeping with "him" right now? Get justice & a smile on your face.
sitelink.com

.

Now, it could be said that all of these ads are forests, all vastly different from each other (whilst still conveying the same message.) My main question here is, at what point do we stop testing forests?

For example, let's say that Ad 2 from above is our best performing ad so far, and we want to write a second ad to see if it works any better.

When do we stop launching ads like #3, and start launching "branches and leaves" like the ad below?

Bringing a Marriage to an End
Don't Make a Single Mistake. Let Dr. Blackstone help you step-by-step.
Sitelink.com
 

Genius01

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Wow!!!
This is a really fantastic thread.
The many nuggets shared on page 1 and subsequent pages are simply golden.
@eliquid , thanks for sharing all this.
Found myself invariably clicking "Like" on virtually all your posts on page 1.
Definitely looking forward to connecting with, and learning more from you.
Is your eBook on PPC ads out?
 

Genius01

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I'm going to have to end up finishing it this year though. Maybe even within the next 90 days hopefully.

Gotta tie up these opportunities that sometimes get pushed to the side for others.

I'll keep you updated when it happens though.

.

Great to hear that.
Guess this is part of the positive ripple effects of your attending the 2018 Summit.
More power to your elbows.
 
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Jordi

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Insane thread Eliquid!! One of my all-time favorites (if not my all-time favorite) for sure!

I'd like to know what do you think is the best way/tool to get accurate search volume data today?
 

Xeon

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6. I think that's too little. A lot of people start out with $5 a day, but I still think that's too little. If it were me and I was strapped for cash, I wouldn't do less than $15 a day bare min. $100 a day would be better though.

Thanks for the advice and reply. Let's say you're strapped for cash and you do US$15 per day. How long would you run those ads for while burning through all the money in order to collect data? About 1 month?
 

WinTheDay

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About the only one I can give you is to make sure they stand out and get attention.

You also want them to carry the same message over to the LP

If possible ( depending on platform ) have your CTA in the ad.

Say I have a FB ad where I took the product added a cool background and etc with photoshop. Should I use the same AD image on my Product Page?
 

Aston_M

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eliquid - Love this post, I have a question regarding pay per view and showing your ads on competitor websites by targeting the thank you pages or other pages, does this still work now?
 

eliquid

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eliquid - Love this post, I have a question regarding pay per view and showing your ads on competitor websites by targeting the thank you pages or other pages, does this still work now?

it can.

depends on platform and what you are doing
 

Danny01

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Can someone link me to a sample of a good landing page preferably with Just mobile telephone number, a request-for-call-back form and maybe an address
 
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Exhosa

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Just finished reading the whole thread. Thank you very much for sharing, much appreciated. Could you recommend some learning material for paid advertising? Could be some websites/blogs/forums/courses or anything you can recommend. As you know and said yourself, a lot of "gurus" and noise out there which is hard to filter out for someone new.
 

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Just wanted to bump, for those out there in these times looking for ways to learn more during corona
Just finished reading the thread, amazing job.
Thank you very much!
Are you still taking clients?
 

eliquid

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With Q4 started and the holiday shopping gearing up, thought I would bump
 

Menery

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With Q4 started and the holiday shopping gearing up, thought I would bump
Hey @eliquid

I wonder if you have some advice for a recruiting funnel for local businesses.

We are looking for recent , or soon to be engineering graduates.

I thought about facebook and IG ads ==> dedicated landing Page where its dead simple to apply ==> retargeting for everbody that spent x minutes on the page.
 
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