Outsourcing in Fiverr.com for foreign CAD engineers and designers

[Salvador8907]

Hello community!
Hopefully we are all chasing our goals!

Heads up! Kind of a lengthy read
I'd like to open this thread for people who are outsourcing their work. Outsourcing work such as getting some copywrite done by a person on the internet, getting some napkin drawings converted to 3D models of a product, or simply outsourcing a voice actor for you product.

Lately i've been sketching designs for a product I have in mind. It requires tubing and plastic parts, all custom.
On this forum I came across a site called Fiverr.com and it's great for outsourcing work. You can hire gigs for as little as $5-$30.
The people who you can hire tend to be from foreign countries, like Macedonia (FYROM), Sri Lanka, and India, a lot of talented engineers for CAD models!

I have been reading the book, One Simple Idea for Start-Ups and Entrepreneurs by Stephen Key.
He speaks about design, manufacturing, and such.
He also talks about Watching Your Back! Getting IP, Intellectual Property for your idea/product.
such as Design Patents, Utility Patents, Provisional Patent Applications, and Non Disclosure Agreements.

Right now i have not filed for patent protection yet, so Stephen Key suggests using a non-disclosure agreement whenever showing my idea to anyone other than immediate friends and family.
He has emphasized that for any person performing a task related to your product-for example people giving gigs on Fiverr.com such as designers, CAD engineers- that they need to sign a NDA NonDisclosure Agreement, and/or a Work for Hire agreement, this states "that any work they perform on your behalf belongs wholly and exclusively to you. That way, they have no claim to your invention/product."

Does this apply for people who I purchase gigs from on Fiverr.com? The designs on parts I get, I will be using for commercial use, but I dont want to get sued because they want in since "they designed it". But then again, they arent in the united states, the people ive hired are in New Dheli.
I have not shwon them my product or told them what the piece is for, I simply give them a sketch and dimensions of the part I'd like to see in 3D model on CAD.
(I keep certain details of my design to myself until i have a PPA and i am ready to make and sell.)


Check out what Fiverr.com gives,
http://support.fiverr.com/hc/en-us/articles/204791227
When purchasing a gig, some people give the option of Commercial Use, which "the seller grants you a perpetual, exclusive, non-transferable, worldwide license to use the purchased delivery for Permitted Commercial Purposes. Unless clearly stated otherwise on the seller's Gig page/description, all intellectual property rights of the purchased delivery are hereby assigned to you."

This is all very confusing when outsourcing work. How have you guys done it when designing products with the intent of manufacturing them.

Does being in america and hiring someone to do a $5 gig from across the world matter? Do i actually need a worldwide license?

I was thinking of, with the designs they give me of a piece of product, I can use that 3D model picture to show people such as mentors, angel investors, and manufacturers. Then to avoid getting into Legal Battles with people I hired, when it comes time to manufacturer for commercial use, I can make slight changes in dimensions and shape to products to avoid designers claiming their stake at my product.

 

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[MattR82]

You need an NDA that has a section saying that all design and improvements implemented as a result of discussions between the two parties remains your property at all times. Or something similar to that. I think if you file a full blown patent eventually (not a provisional) you need to possibly include their names as co-inventors? But they have no rights to anything. I'm not 100% sure on this though.

I sprung for an NDA done by a lawyer. As my products I am looking at designing and potentially licensing are similar, I can just swap the words around a little and keep re-using it. Depends how serious you want to be about it.

Good luck! It is quite fun to try this model, as there is no huge financial risk. You can make great rewards from just a lot off effort. I am seriously enjoying it!

 

[Sovereign]

Doing slight dimensional changes does not make the model/product your own - it is just a modification, even worse, it is a modification without the owners approval.

Make them sign an NDA and WFH to ensure all belongs to you, just don't think that NDA's can't be bypassed if your designer sees an opportunity for himself.
When it comes to protection your best bet is execution. Fast and swift, drop your product on the market without giving others time to beat you to it.

a lot of talented engineers for CAD models!

Wrong, it takes no talent to be a CAD modeler. It only takes practice.

When choosing a CAD modeler don't be fooled by fancy models in their portfolio, they don't mean a thing. See, without effort i can download a very complex and detailed model which looks very impressive. Just as well i can create a complex looking model with just a few commands.
But truly complex models to model usually don't even seem complex.

The point of CAD is in rapid adjusting capability.
For example, if you have a model of a complex bumper and want to enlarge the cutouts for lights i don't need to remodel everything, instead i just change 1 parameter and everything else adapts by itself.
You don't want to pay a CAD modeler for 9h of work now and a month from now pay him for another 9h of work just because you made a slight change. The modelers capability to create truly adaptable models is the true measure of how good he is, unfortunately you can't see this from pictures of his portfolio models.

When you pick a CAD modeler look at which program he uses, it must be parametric.
Also make an agreement with him stating that any small (i say 'small') changes to the model he will do for a small fee and on priority basis.


Last note:
CAD modelers are not necessarily engineers. If you'll rely on a CAD modeler to find faults with your engineering work you might be in for a bad surprise.

 

[Salvador8907]

Doing slight dimensional changes does not make the model/product your own - it is just a modification, even worse, it is a modification without the owners approval.

I see. However, I looked at Fiverr.com Terms of Service and when I scrolled to section Ownership above Commercial Use section.
It says the buyer is entitled to all Intellectual Property, ( https://www.fiverr.com/terms_of_service )
" Unless clearly stated otherwise on the sellers Gig page/description, when the work is delivered, and subject to payment, the buyer is granted all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to, copyrights for the work delivered from the seller, and the seller waives any and all moral rights therein. The delivered work shall be considered work-for-hire under the U.S. Copyright Act. In the event the delivered work does not meet the requirements of work-for-hire or when US Copyright Act does not apply, the seller expressly agrees to assign to buyer the copyright in the delivered work"

Then at the end it states something of a worldwide "Commercial License", " If you intend to use it for any charge or other consideration, or for any purpose that is directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit, you will need to buy the Commercial Use License through a Gig Extra and will have broader rights that cover your business use."

Some Sellers on Fiverr dont even offer Commercial Use, but then one person who did a plastic piece for me offered the option of Commercial USe, but he is Sri Lanka and I am in USA. Maybe its a way to get more money from a gig.

 

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[Sovereign]

Well if you intend to make a business from this it seems you need the commercial use license.
I can't know for sure though as i never worked through Fiverr, only through Elance.

If you relay on what Fiverrs policy states at the moment, how will you prove your rights somewhere down the line (if needed) if Fiverr no longer exists or changes its policy?

Basically you are giving control to Fiverr.
Personally i wouldn't rely on what an intermediary (Fiverr in this case) says.

Where is the problem in signing additional NDA and WFH if you both (you and the designer) already agreed to them when signing on Fiveer?

Some Sellers on Fiverr dont even offer Commercial Use

Then check UpWorks.