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Not Fulfilled? Depressed? Maybe You Need An Alignment

MidwestLandlord

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align up to 4w2

Wings are adjacent to your basic personality type.

So a 4 can have a wing of either 3 or 5 (some believe, as I do, that you are actually both wings but one is more dominant than the other. My 8w7 is certainly looking more and more like 8w9 as I age. I'm getting more mellow, and giving less shits about what other's think of me haha)

@rollerskates

(my type 8 is leaning towards type 2 [helpful], so I hope this helps you lol)

This site and page is a good resource: How The System Works

It does a good job explaining the centers (instinctive, feeling, or thinking), the dominant emotion of each center (anger, shame, fear), the lines of integration and disintegration (growth and stress), and how the wings play a part in your overall personality.

Maybe it will help to study each of the centers, and each of the dominant emotions to find which one matches you. You can then rule out each center that doesn't fit (for example, since you tested 6,4,2 then instinctive center is probably not yours, nor is the dominant emotion of anger)

Just don't get married to one type and convince yourself that's what you are. No one type is better than the others by any means.

I hired an Enneagram coach many years ago, and it still took months for me to figure it all out (and it's really a life long process, I won't quit learning about myself until I'm dead. After all, we change during the years too)
 
D

Deleted50669

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I'm sticking my neck out here because I know that SOME people will consider this topic along the same lines of "action-faking", "passion following", and other guru life coaching BS.

However, I'm going for my 3rd Gold on purpose with this thread.

Yes this will be a massive post, covering several posts actually. It gets deep and gets into tapping emotions sometimes. When you think you know what I'm talking about, I might actually spin it around on you later. If you really like what you read, make sure you pay attention.

My aim is not to convince you or "life coach" you. My aim is to help specific people who were once like me on this forum. When you read this thread, you will know who you are and you will understand why I am helping you and posting this. For everyone else that doesn't get it, this post just wasn't meant for you at this time of your life.

And yes, I posted this on another forum first. Why? I didn't know how some of you would take it. So I decided to post it elsewhere, get feedback, and refine it for here. Kinda like how Seinfeld and other comics try out their new jokes on smaller venues before doing them in front of larger crowds.

I'm going to give an intro here first on why I am posting this that will then lead into the actual posting. So here goes....

Intro/Background
Years ago I really thought I knew who I was. I was living a largely unscripted life for the most part and doing things my way.

In many ways, I was also still attached to the the "script" my parents and grandparents passed down to me, as well as society. Each time the script got in my way and I was let down by it, I grew more into the unscripted me.

These events lead me to certain beliefs, values, and goals. It helped me move forward to an unscripted life before MJ's book came out. Based on this, I thought I knew who I was and what I wanted to be.

But see, life is funny in that way.You think you have it all figured out but many times you don't know the WHY behind those things. Many times you don't care to look into the WHY because "life happens" or you feel you know the real why already.

In 2008 I had a massive FTM. It was one of many and it was not my last. However, this one specific FTM lead me to huge financial success in my own business. Years later even with success in business, I found myself depressed over the same things that lead to my FTM in 2008.

So in 2015 I decided to do some soul searching. What come out of that is what I present to you below.

I didn't post this background information elsewhere. I wanted you all to know the background so you could see where I was coming from and why I posted it. The story jumps to the present day now below:

The Post

Every 12 months or so, I take a look at my goals and I figure out if what I completed is in alignment with what I want in life.

But the big question is, what is it I want?

And what do I do when my want's change?

It's be proven that depression can come from doing work that doesn't align with your core values, whether you know your core values or not. If you are stuck doing things daily that really do not fit you, wouldn't you be depressed too?

In 2015, my core values were:
  • Individuality
  • Freedom
  • Trust
  • Simplicity
  • Activeness

These past few days I re-evaluated my core values and came up with:
  • Simplicity
  • Creativity
  • Entrepreneurship
  • Stability
  • Autonomy
Now these words all mean something different, to different people. That's OK. What they mean to you when you make out your list is all that matters. Sometimes, these values can mean different things at different times to the same person...

It took me a few days actively thinking about these values ( from multiple different lists I pulled up online ) and thinking about my past, current, and future life. What I ended up with fits me now. This is key because what you want and need can change every year.

So why is this important?

As builders and entrepreneurs, you are going to get distracted with new shiny projects and ideas. Maybe in the middle of building your empire you get offered a sweet cushy executive job.

Maybe it's as simple as you get the urge to move to another city.

If you know your core values, you can compare these new projects, job offers, urges to change against the core values and see if it really makes sense to do so.

For a personal example, I took my core values above and made a personal mission statement:

"To solve problems with simplicity, creativity, and entrepreneurship while creating a full and stable life that provides autonomy"

If something comes up, I ask myself if it aligns with my core values and mission statement.

An example of this might be:
  • Work on new shiny Adsense project - Is it simple? Yes. Is it creative? No.
    • I found a no, so I should pass on this new shiny object
  • Got offered a cushy VP job at XYZ Inc - Is it simple? No
    • It also isn't entrepreneurial, so I need to pass on it
  • Found a new house I love, its $475,000 and I need a mortgage
    • It doesn't fit autonomy. I will feel obligated to pay my mortgage and do things to make sure it's paid like take a job or give up a trip I really wanted to go on maybe to pay the bills.
    • However, maybe I can find a creative and entrepreneurial way to still get this house, like live in for 6 months and AirBNB it the other 6 months of the year.
A lot of you might disagree with what I put above as examples.

You might say, a mortgage isn't a problem really. You need a house, its your dream house, its just one bill, it doesn't really impact your independence and freedom.

But this exercise is about how "I feel and I think". When you do yours, you use your feeling and wisdom that you live by. That's the whole idea of core values and how YOU personally understand them.

So if you had the same core values as me and made the same mission statement as me, it's no wonder you feel depressed and miserable working a J-O-B as the Director of some web agency. It's no wonder your miserable working on projects where none of your creativity shines through. It's no wonder your sick and worried all the time when you have no stability in your life bouncing from girlfriend to girlfriend while moving to a different city and changing jobs every 3 months ( if stability was one of your core values, as it is for me ).

Get the picture?

Knowing your core values is like knowing your goals.

Once you figure them out, you can make better decisions about what choices you make in life. Backing that up with a mission statement ( personal ) will further strengthen that.

BTW, your core values and mission statement can be different from the ones you pick for your business.

One last thing I do to further ensure I stay on track is to add in Priorities.

My priorities for 2015 where these:
  • Family
  • Charity & Faith
  • Building Net Worth
I haven't figured out my priorities yet for this year since I just changed my core values and mission statement for the next 12 months, but once I figure those out I will share here.

Since I know my core values, my mission statement, and my priorities I am never stuck trying to figure out, "what do I do?" when presented with a decision I need to make. I also know exactly how to define my goals for the year, month, week, and day because my goals are going to be reflections of my values, mission statement, and priorities.

For example, I'm not going to go through with, or make new goals, that have me trying to land a job with higher pay. That doesn't fit in anywhere. Im also not going to make goals that have a high % of violating any of my value and priorities in the future.

I'm not going to make goals that don't reflect my values, mission statement, and priorities. I'm also going to know what I always need to be doing without second thought since I make decisions based on these values, missions statement and priorities.

And because I'm doing things that align with me and my values, I'm going to be fulfilled and happy regardless if I hit the goals I make 100% or not.

This is why you have to be brutally honest with yourself in doing this exercise.

You may even need to be like me and figure out values, then rework them daily for the next week to get down to what really resonates with you and is honest with you. Then take a couple days to refine your mission statement and priorities to make sure they really are truly you.

Say I made one goal of making $100,000 in 12 months with Amazon Kindle and at the end of the year I miss it. I only made $45,000 instead.

Would I be sad for missing my goal? Maybe, but really only because I knew I could have done better and I really needed the extra money. However, I won't feel miserable or depressed because I was doing work and aligning my future with what resonated with me and fits me.

Working on Amazon Kindle projects more than likely would be:
  • Simple - It's not hard to write content
  • Creative - I can write about any topic and any when I pick one, any idea in that topic with a touch of flair
  • Entrepreneurial - I'm working for myself, no one tells me how to do it, sky is the limit income wise
  • Stable - Maybe not rich and wealthy, but once the ball is rolling it can be stable and recurring
  • Autonomy - I have freedom and independance and options working on these projects
So if I miss my goal, all is not lost.

Now think of yourself with the goal to make $100,000 and you're in a job. You have the same values, but the only way you can get more money is to convince your boss to give you a raise, or change jobs to another company. Even if you hit $100k at another company, you are not in alignment with your values and you will have this nagging and unfulfilled desire.

It's not hard to prove either.

Look at all the depressed and sad people in the world around you. Maybe they are family members, co-workers, friends, or just people you overhear at Qdoba eating lunch next to you.

You think those people are actively doing exercises like this? Or do you think they are reacting to their surroundings like lost sheep in the woods?


Do yourself a favor....
  1. Figure out your true, real core values. Spend several days on it
  2. Make a mission statement around them
  3. Figure out your top 3 priorities
  4. Erase your old goals and make new ones based on #1-3 above. Make sure every goal fits and doesn't violate a core value or priority.
  5. Once your goals are set, set smaller daily, weekly, and monthly goals to hit those larger goals. Make sure these smaller goals that set you up to your larger goals don't violate values or priorities.
  6. In 6 or 12 months, re-evaluate who you are and your values. Adapt if need be.
Love this post. I have done several core value exercises over the past few years. For comparison (not that a comparison offers anything of value beyond observation), mine were;

1. Autonomy
2. Venture
3. Influence
4. Conceive
5. Calmness

I like that you crafted a mission statement, I hadn't gotten that far. I'll give it a whirl here;

" Conceive novel solutions that influence others through a venture that affords me autonomy and a calm environment."

... sounds viable. I think this fits the mold of copywriting relatively well, which is my current path of choice.

Now for goals!

Thanks for the mind stretch.

- Cheers
 

rollerskates

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We often speak about doing uncomfortable, yet sensible things to get ahead on the forum and when we are honest about who we are, what our principles are and the like, it helps overcome the discomfort, as we become more focused on what is important.

Yes! Focusing on what we are instead of what we are not.
 

Dan_Fastlane

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I've never heard of this, but just looked it up.

Will have to report back later once I take it a "few" times.

my result was: The Mechanic (short version)

Strengths: Completing things, finding ways to improve systems, making things simpler, perfecting projects, paying attention to details.

Weaknesses: Often takes a long time to complete tasks. Gets caught up in details, forgets about the team around them, often inflexible and unwilling to change.

Successes: Mechanics are at their best when they are looking for ways to improve things. They love to tinker and take things apart, and then put them together in new and better ways. They are best when completing things.

Failures: Mechanics are not so good at starting things from scratch, as they are perfectionists who are worried of getting it wrong from the beginning. They aren’t comfortable in chaotic or political situations and aren’t so sensitive to feelings.


So because i know this now i go with more confidence into eCommerce(improving products, improving processes etc..) , if you know such stuff you can take a look at CENTS and see what best suits you!!! i think your thread can provide a lot of value if people really figure this out and THEN find there Fastlane vehicle!!!
 

dgr

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I had this threat bookmarked but I was avoiding it. Because... you know... I already know about this shit.

Well... I've finally started to read it when a lot of pieces have take their place. When everything I read, see or experience tell me the same message.

And probably the best moment to read it is now. Not a month ago. Now. Because maybe a month ago I would have read it without taking any action at all.

It's a great post @eliquid.

The funny thing is: I've done this before. I've done this kind of exercises since 2013, trying to clarify my values, my passions, how can I provide value, what are my strengths... And it was really helpful. But...

But I'm making the same mistakes that before. Not working with a leverage in my strengths. Not working with a strong purpouse honning my values.

A lot of things have changed in this years and I'm happy for that. But still not in my Path.

So I've taken the 16personalities test again (as a INTP, I like your systematic approach ;)). Right now I'm going to take again the enneagram test (I'm a 5w4 according to previous tests, but I have a lot conflict with some 3 characteristics).

I'll take the Strenghts Finder test (I've just bought the book How Full Is Your Bucket that gives acces to the test). I'll take also the one oriented to entrepreneurs.

I'm still not at the end of the thread, but what made me decide to read it was that I was searching for reviews of the Marketing Dna Test from Perry Marshall, that I'll take the next week.

I'll keep you informed, but I agree with everything you say here. To know your values and honor them, is the key to a fulfilled life.

Because everything you want is a way to fulfill some of your values. And we tend to over-complicate the means (the fast car) when the important thing is the end (the acceptance value, or whaterever). Probably we can have simpler means than leads to the same ends.

What really helped me was, I finally got validation that who am I isn't some strange socially awkward recluse that has a huge ego who needs fixing because the world tried to tell me to conform to their standard.

No, I learned who I am is natural and recognized. I don't have to second guess who I am and what I do. It's ok to not be an extrovert. It's ok that I spend a lot of time reading alone instead of going to parties and drinking and making aimless small talk. My fear of being useless is perfectly valid and I'm not just this depressed person always thinking about. In fact, I'm not depressed at all.. its just a natural fear for someone with my personality type actually.

Do you see how massively helpful that is? I don't need to see a shrink for my phone "fear" or a Dr. for some pills and my sleep insomnia. I don't need to question myself anymore. At the same time, I realize my weakness and how to actually address them.
This resonate with me, because I felt the same after taking the 16personalities test. I started to accept a lot of things about me. Some of them in common with yours.

If I had known about these tests ( and trusted them ) when I was 16, could you imagine the difference it would have made in my life?

Sure, maybe I wouldn't have been super successful and rolling in money because of it, but I wouldn't have been miserable with 100 jobs either.
I think that a personality test can be dangerous if you use it to label yourself (or others) as a excuse to not to grow or not change some aspects of your personality.

But they're a great starting point for self-development. They serve you as a compass that helps you focus on thrive in your strengths and take conscious decisions about what to do with your awakeness.

My point is: maybe if you had know about these tests at an early age you'd have label yourself this way.

Anyway, it is as it is. You are building over your background. Is your unique path what makes you unique.

Thanks for taking the time (and vulnerability involved) to share this with us :)
 

RayAndré

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When the beginning and end are more closely matched, I think you naturally find the path though because you start aligning the shortcut based on where you are now and what truly fits you.

Did that help in any way?

@eliquid yes, thank you. I'm going to go back and read that a few more times so it really sinks in. I may have been trying to change too far to one extreme, and could probably be more effective by seeing who I really am now and how that person would look like as a successful businessman/fastlaner. Before, I was of the mindset "All these successful fastlaners are doing XYZ so I should do XYZ," but it brought me a lot of stress and guilt.

Its like when I finished reading TMF , I naively emailed MJ asking (summarized) "Hey MJ, great book! My life looks like XYZ right now. What should I do?!" (Sorry for that @MJ DeMarco :hilarious:) To which he replied (summarized): "I don't know what you should do because I don't know you."

Well, apparently I didn't know me either.

When I got to this point, the future self goals become more clear and focused and actually aligned to who I am now.

Sounds like the goal is to get to this "knowing point", then find the goals that are aligned. Don't just copy someone else's.

Time to get to work...
REP++
 
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eliquid

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Just a side-note to anyone:

It's also worth to check this again if major changes happen in your life, like beeing left by a longtime spouse or something similar. Maybe you are really not the one you thought you are, when you were with him/her.

Thanks again for this thread. It provides some light on otherwise darkend paths.

Def.

I recommend doing this every year myself.

Disregarding major life changes like divorce ( or similar ), you might find the past 12 month have been really good to you ( goal-wise ), or really bad. If it has, you might have moved to a different "level" and learned more about yourself.

That experience can slightly change you. A new perspective. A different outlook maybe.

You realize that going after "freedom" the last 12 months wasn't as accurate as you thought it was 12 month prior. What you really wanted ( now with a new perspective ) is autonomy. This is just an example.

Slight changes like that can make a big shift and you might not know it if you haven't had a large life event yet.

If anything, it serves as a "check up" every year to make sure you are on the right path.

.
 

eliquid

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How did you overcome this in your case?

The ideas never stop. I feel it's part of an INTJ/INTP 5W4 whatever.

Not saying others don't have ideas or can't, just putting pressure on the number of ideas and non-stop activity of those types with their brain.

As far as execution and not having it for all of these ideas, I use to feel bad and thought I was wasting all these ideas by not executing on them.

Before I knew about the MBTI and Enneagram and other tests, I just felt like a loser with ideas and no execution.

Afterward, I learned that's what is normal for me ( the stream of non-stop ideas ) and there is no possible way I have enough time in the world to even finish them, let alone try to start all of them. But it was also afterward that I started down the road of core values, a mission statement, priorities and more.

While the ideas never stop, my core values and mission statement essentially funnel what ideas I could even consider good ones ( good as in what fits me, not good for money-making ).

So while I still might have 5 ideas a day, only maybe 2 of them are even a GOOD FIT FOR ME and match my core values, mission statement, and priorities.

Out of those 2, maybe 0 or 1 make CENTS. Generally, this will be 0.

Over a month, that might be 150 ideas where 60 could even fit me on a first pass. With the second pass of my core values and mission statement, those 60 might dwindle to 20. Out of those 20, maybe only 1 will make CENTS in the way I view CENTS.

Now I don't feel bad about the ideas I don't execute on. They just were not a fit passing through the funnel of my core values, mission statement, and priorities. The ones that do pass sit in my head and go through another pass several times until I find something that could be really workable.

By that time, I look at it as CENTS and many I give up on at that point for one reason or another.

The ones that make it past CENTS, I try to work in as goals and outsource as much work as I can on it while I still work on my main focus ( my SaaS or consulting ). This way, I don't take my eyes off my main businesses while still being able to work on new ideas.

As time has passed, I have added more filters to business ideas that are outside of CENTS or my core values. This is purely personal and something that might not even apply to you. For example, I have started requiring that workable ideas have to be entirely online or within a specific set of niches. Or that it has to be be delegatable from day 1 instead of me "doing it" and then trying to pass it on to someone else later. Or that it must have a definable exit plan from day 1 too.

Stuff like that, that is maybe outside of my core values or CENTS. You would have to create this yourself as time goes on to what fits you though.

Doing this has helped me go from 150 ideas that never get worked on per month, to maybe ( if I'm lucky ) 1 really workable idea a month that I can pass to someone else to get started for me while I still work on my main business. Many months go by I have 0, so it's not like it's a new race every month to start something new.
 
Last edited:

jlwilliams

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After reading this thread and posting my response last night, I took a simple online mbpt test this morning. I didn't like what it said, or even really agree with it. So I took another. Now I have two, vastly different sets of results. Did I let my reaction to the first color my responses to the second? Was the second, more questions with multiple choice options more accurate?

I see the value here, and I see the opportunity for self delusion. There is no one easier to fool than oneself. The stakes are really high because I need accurate, actionable information here.

I'm going to follow this path more seriously than a couple of free online quizzes. The fact that this morning's results are so unsatisfying makes me even more convinced that this is worth the work. It's not a simple, cut and paste project.
 

rollerskates

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Because of this, we spend most our time fighting our own nature.

We take massive action and what we get is more problems.
We wind up doing unfocused work that drains our energy levels.
All because we didn't take the time to figure out who we really are.

Yes. This is very well said. I spent a lot of years sucking at life because I didn't understand myself. Getting there!

Worth repeating:

"We spend most of our time fighting our own nature"
 

eliquid

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Excellent thread so far @eliquid and I'm not even all the way through it yet. Thank you.

As you did, I'm going through a list of 600+ values to discover and refine my own list of 5.
But how do you define a value? Here are the first thoughts that came to my mind:
  • Something I want to embrace
  • Something I want to live by
  • Something I want to be a part of my life
  • Something I want to be
  • Something I want others to know me for
  • Something I should prioritize if I want to really be happy
  • Something my endeavors should align with
  • Something that attracts me to others if they have it or make me feel it

For me, that's hard to define.

As an INTJ, I want the real answer and not the one that just makes me emotionally feel "good". I haven't been able to really define it yet.

That's why for now, I let others define it and I used multiple sources to create my "values list". While not a perfect answer, I felt that if at least I could get every core value that other's have listed, that would be a start at least. I made sure to use multiple sources for best experience and then combined into 1 list.

At that point, I told myself I had a good sampling of the data.

I went through every value listed. If I felt nothing on the first pass, I crossed it out immediately and moved on.

If I felt anything at all, even the smallest twinge.. I put a star next to it.

The ones with stars is where I started asking the "Why" questions to. This would lead me to values that seemed like duplicates and I would ask "Why" there too. This would lead me to values that seemed similar, but were stronger than the original value I was looking at. Again I asked "Why".

At some point I was able to remove what seemed like duplicates and weaker versions of other values in the list.

What was left was a trimmed down version of 30-ish values total.

I had to ask "Why" on that group over and over and really get to the core of what each meant to me. Some words I had to look up even if I already knew them just to get other's input on the word and its origin/meaning in case I was wrong. Most times I wasn't though.

For example, I had Freedom down as a value for a while. I had to ask myself why many times and really think about how I wanted to live my future and how I had lived my past. What is freedom really? What would I miss if it went away? Doing several exercises like that got to me realize it wasn't freedom, but autonomy I really wanted.

That's where clarity comes into play and you have your "ahHa" moment with yourself.

So while I really didn't answer your question, I think that's because for now I took enough sample data from others to conclude their list works for me now until I can define what a core value is to me and thus introduce new ones later when I have that felt out better.

.
 

RayAndré

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Finding out who you are without all the scripted BS from society, and then choosing to live congruently to that?
^ This is good. Its got me thinking.
To add to this I would say yes, finding out who and how you really are. Not who and how you want to be, or have tried to be.
And then not only choosing to live congruently to that, but building your life using those as building blocks. Build these into your current work. Or if you're looking for a change, look for something where these can be a part of it.

For example, a software engineer can work in virtually any field. Medicine, energy, music, technology, shoes, money, physics, etc. Your skills as a software engineer are who you are and how you work in the field you choose.
With these values, you can apply them to virtually any lifestyle, job, or business. For example lets take adventure and simplicity. They can be applied to software engineering, marketing, real estate, etc. It might take some experimenting to see in what ways they can best be applied, but I bet it can be done.

Historically well-known successful people became that way for being true to who they are. They didn't try to be someone else. They don't let society change them. (I think of MLKJ, Steve Jobs, etc)

We could be next, even at a smaller scale, if we find who we really are and live up to it.
 

Andy Black

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@eliquid what you think about the wealth dynamics test?? it could maybe give someone the best direction on the path to entrepeneurship?
I think I took this one years ago.

And Perry Marshall's Marketing DNA Test (which I found very insightful ... I've posted my results somewhere in my AndyTalks Progress thread).

I also took the Belbin a couple of times years and years ago. I came up as a Teamworker both times.

Isn't there a thread somewhere in the forum where loads of people take that test that shows up as INTJ and suchlike. I can't remember what I ended up, and can't even find the thread.


EDIT: Here's the output of my Perry Marshall Marketing DNA test:
 
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rollerskates

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So, I did this! I did the core value words, the enneagram test and the MBTI test several times over several weeks. The MBTI results gave me a 4 way split personality. :rofl: I am split between being an extravert and being an introvert in a lot of ways and so I said could go either way. But, more often than not when I took it, it had me as an introvert. Basically I am an INFP, which explains my uniqueness because it is a very small percentage of the population. I really liked the in depth analysis of the 16personalities.com test, and I definitely recommend taking that one along with several others.

On the enneagram test, I hover between a 4 (the Individualist) and a 2 (the Helper), and could also be a 6 (The Loyalist). This also explains me, and here too, I was a split personality. I think most often, I got 4w2, though.

I also did my core value words, which I think I am going to keep to myself, but I will use them as a barometer for things I am considering doing.

@eliquid --I can't thank you enough for posting this, as it's really narrowed down what I should do, and what fits with me.
So THANK YOU! :clap:: Major rep + coming your way.

Seriously, anyone who is considering doing these exercises--DO THEM! You won't be disappointed, well, you might be a bit. I was a little nonplussed to find that my personality is HELPER. I don't want to be a helper o_O, I want to focus on me for a bit.
 

eliquid

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So, I did this! I did the core value words, the enneagram test and the MBTI test several times over several weeks. The MBTI results gave me a 4 way split personality. :rofl: I am split between being an extravert and being an introvert in a lot of ways and so I said could go either way. But, more often than not when I took it, it had me as an introvert. Basically I am an INFP, which explains my uniqueness because it is a very small percentage of the population. I really liked the in depth analysis of the 16personalities.com test, and I definitely recommend taking that one along with several others.

On the enneagram test, I hover between a 4 (the Individualist) and a 2 (the Helper), and could also be a 6 (The Loyalist). This also explains me, and here too, I was a split personality. I think most often, I got 4w2, though.

I also did my core value words, which I think I am going to keep to myself, but I will use them as a barometer for things I am considering doing.

@eliquid --I can't thank you enough for posting this, as it's really narrowed down what I should do, and what fits with me.
So THANK YOU! :clap:: Major rep + coming your way.

Seriously, anyone who is considering doing these exercises--DO THEM! You won't be disappointed, well, you might be a bit. I was a little nonplussed to find that my personality is HELPER. I don't want to be a helper o_O, I want to focus on me for a bit.

You very well could be split 4 ways.

I kinda cringe at that. Nothing you did wrong though.. but I cringe thinking I (myself) couldn't get it down to 1 or 2. BUT that is me and how I am. You might be fine with that which is good for your type.

Not sure if you did this, or want to......

But I found that after figuring out my MBTI ( INTJ ), that it heavily aligned with my Enneagram ( type 5 ), and heavily aligned with my core values ( which I did before ever taking MBTI or Enneagram ). That kinda helped me know I really was an INTJ.

If you want, I would suggest looking at your core values and Enneagram results and working backwards to possibly find which of the 4 MBTI you really are.

We are complex things as humans.. I see some traits of me in other types ( very very few though ) and also my mood that day/week/month influences that ( see @MidwestLandlord post above in this thread ).. but when I noticed my Enneagram and values matched up to the MBTI, I knew I had a winner.

You may or may not be able to do that. Again, only do it if you want.

But I could ( if you hadn't ) start looking at what type 4/2/6's generally are when it comes to MBTI. There is research out there, trust me, that will generally say things like, "type 5's tend to be INTJs and INxJs" and there are things out there that will say "INTJ's tend to have these values"....

That's how I was able to confirm mine. You may want to do that later on if you want to narrow down.

Not trying to get you down to 1 "box", but just trying to help if you decide later you really want to narrow it down.

.
 
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RayAndré

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eliquid

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Had my birthday a couple of days ago.

Going to revisit this plan of action and redo my goals and mission statement for 2019 if things have changed.

I suggest doing this yearly to make sure the goal posts haven't moved internally for you.

Will let you know if anything changes on my end and share what I find if they have.

.
 
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eliquid

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Here's something surprising.

Can you grow out of your personality type? Can it change over time?

Maybe I mislabeled myself from the beginning?

IDK.

But I was poking around the other day since I mentioned in my last post above that I fell into a downward funk some ( end of June ).

I was going over the whole INTJ - T that I am, and 5w4 Ennegram.. and my core values and mission statement... and I came across something called the Keirsey Temperament Sorter.

If you scroll down 50% of the page, there is a box that labels the INTJ as "Mastermind (INTJ): Entailing"

I read that over and felt this person labeled the INTJ wrong. It just didn't fit me. Something was off. But all of the other research I have done before had strongly put me in that.

So I looked at the other introvert label in that category ( INTP ) and read it and to my surprise I felt myself more aligned with INTP. Thinking maybe the data could still be off, I went back through MBTI and read about INTP and did some research and felt that I could just be INTP instead of INTJ.

This is where the Enneagram really came in and helped me.

A lot of 5w6 tend to be INTJs, while lots of 5w4's then to be INTPs. Sure there can be times where one is the other, but Im leaning towards INTP more and more.

This is why I stress on looking into multiple areas/tests when doing this exercise, and doing this multiple times too to weed out emotion and other things that may impact.

For several years one test really pegged me as a INTJ ( MBTI ), another had me at the crossroads of potentially being a INTJ or INTP ( Enneagram ). A 3rd didn't label me, but lead me to rethink I might be the INTP.

It wasn't until I went back and reread the other types by hand ( meaning, not taking a test but doing it backwards and reading the types first ) that I am starting to see that I might have had this wrong ( or grew out of it ).

Does it change anything, really?

No.


INTJ and INTP are so closely matched in many areas, values, actions, etc that NO nothing is really going to change for me.

My core values, mission statement, priorities, actions, etc are not changing or getting updated.

But it interesting to see how this played out and how I came to a new finding.

If I can get this slightly wrong after years and many times doing it, I can't imagine someone that takes it lightly or as a joke and does it 1 time half assed.

Only 1 letter off, but things make a lot more sense now then they did before. I was 95% there.. now I feel I got it pegged 100%.

What's funny is, my new mission statement/core values ( June 11th above ) had the hint there all along BEFORE I realized I should have been an INTP.

Here is what they are:

To:
  1. Solve problems with simplicity, creativity, and entrepreneurship
  2. Share my full knowledge, wisdom and insight with those that deserve it
  3. Live a full and stable life with complete and utter autonomy
#2 had a big secret in it. The "those who deserve it" part.

I'm not going to reveal it all out, but this digs into a huge part of the INTP actually.

It was sitting there in my mission statement/core values all along this year before I realized I was more INTP than INTJ.

Odd how things work out, right?

.
 
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WarWizard

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Here's something surprising.

Can you grow out of your personality type? Can it change over time?

Maybe I mislabeled myself from the beginning?

IDK.

But I was poking around the other day since I mentioned in my last post above that I fell into a downward funk some ( end of June ).

I was going over the whole INTJ - T that I am, and 5w4 Ennegram.. and my core values and mission statement... and I came across something called the Keirsey Temperament Sorter.

If you scroll down 50% of the page, there is a box that labels the INTJ as "Mastermind (INTJ): Entailing"

I read that over and felt this person labeled the INTJ wrong. It just didn't fit me. Something was off. But all of the other research I have done before had strongly put me in that.

So I looked at the other introvert label in that category ( INTP ) and read it and to my surprise I felt myself more aligned with INTP. Thinking maybe the data could still be off, I went back through MBTI and read about INTP and did some research and felt that I could just be INTP instead of INTJ.

This is where the Enneagram really came in and helped me.

A lot of 5w6 tend to be INTJs, while lots of 5w4's then to be INTPs. Sure there can be times where one is the other, but Im leaning towards INTP more and more.

This is why I stress on looking into multiple areas/tests when doing this exercise, and doing this multiple times too to weed out emotion and other things that may impact.

For several years one test really pegged me as a INTJ ( MBTI ), another had me at the crossroads of potentially being a INTJ or INTP ( Enneagram ). A 3rd didn't label me, but lead me to rethink I might be the INTP.

It wasn't until I went back and reread the other types by hand ( meaning, not taking a test but doing it backwards and reading the types first ) that I am starting to see that I might have had this wrong ( or grew out of it ).

Does it change anything, really?

No.


INTJ and INTP are so closely matched in many areas, values, actions, etc that NO nothing is really going to change for me.

My core values, mission statement, priorities, actions, etc are not changing or getting updated.

But it interesting to see how this played out and how I came to a new finding.

If I can get this slightly wrong after years and many times doing it, I can't imagine someone that takes it lightly or as a joke and does it 1 time half assed.

Only 1 letter off, but things make a lot more sense now then they did before. I was 95% there.. now I feel I got it pegged 100%.

What's funny is, my new mission statement/core values ( June 11th above ) had the hint there all along BEFORE I realized I should have been an INTP.

Here is what they are:

To:
  1. Solve problems with simplicity, creativity, and entrepreneurship
  2. Share my full knowledge, wisdom and insight with those that deserve it
  3. Live a full and stable life with complete and utter autonomy
#2 had a big secret in it. The "those who deserve it" part.

I'm not going to reveal it all out, but this digs into a huge part of the INTP actually.

It was sitting there in my mission statement/core values all along this year before I realized I was more INTP than INTJ.

Odd how things work out, right?

.

Hey Jason,

Good question.

From my research on these things (I'm an INTP after multiple testings over the last 7 + years), yes there is a chance that we could test differently.

Between INTP & INTJ, they are in some senses 2 sides of a coin.

When we undertake developing ourselves, we could build skills that add to our natural tendencies that then reflect in the result of tests.

We can also consciously take on characteristics of opposing types, but if we do it for too long, we can experience internal stress and burnout that can seem 'unexplained'.

These are the functional stacks of INTP & INTJ
INTJ: Ni – Te – Fi – Se
INTP: Ti – Ne – Si – Fe

I've got to say though, when I read your whole story, it seemed that you could be naturally an INTP, but had developed the 'action taker' aspect that seemed to give you the feel of being an INTJ (a developed Te). I just didn't have the deep understanding of all the aspects of this at that stage, but now I understand it much better.

I'm working on consciously being able to use the Te aspect, while being an INTP. Other tests like Kolbe A and DISC, do point to the fact that I have enough of the Te aspect developed, and I seem to instinctively use it (take action quickly) in some areas of life, where as the Ti seems to predominate (leading to over analysis) in other areas.

My thoughts at this stage are that, in areas of life where I have already got all the data & learning I need and have built the appropriate mental models, I take action quickly without over analysing (unless I hit failure and have to analyse it again), and in areas where there is no solid mental framework, I'm still 'seeking understanding' which can seem like procrastination, and will need the mindset of, 'let me do small experiments to test what I think I know to see if it is really true'.

Wondering how those that took part in this exercise early on ( 2017 and 2018 ) are doing now and if has helped in them some way.

Please let me know.

It has helped me a lot in understanding where I was out of alignment, but as I mentioned above, it has also led to seeking deeper understanding of the various aspects to use it effectively.

A.J. Dreneth has written a couple of really good books on the INTP (he's one too from memory), which are helping me a lot at the moment.
 

eliquid

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Bumping again as we get into the Holidays and I know some people can naturally get depressed.

Also a lot of people start thinking about new and different life choices this time of year as we head into 2021.

Has being shut in ( any of you that did ), during the Pandemic gave any one time to reflect and think about this?

Thanks!
 

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Just read this again and it made me realize why I'm so unhappy lately. I'm definitely not enjoying the business I've created and I feel stuck in my city. My goal is to have the freedom to live where I want and to live in a sunny country.
Same here mate. I actually read through some of my old posts in this forum from like 5 years ago and nothing has changed. Seen my old Facebook post in memories the other day from 11 years ago saying Can't stand these dark nights, roll on January for our next holiday. And that's still exactly the case now.

The good thing is I know why nothing has changed. Too much reading, too much spending time on this forum looking at posts that don't solve my immediate problem. Not enough action, not enough prospecting to find new clients for my business.
 

MJ DeMarco

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But so many things about it violated my core values and mission statement.

Any specifics?

I'm curious to what raises the red-flags on that particular SAAS. I mean, what are they demonstrating publicly (or in the collab offer) that made you go, "Uh, no."
 
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BD64

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Your stuff is always really great @eliquid.

So far so good here and I'm looking forward to reading more. As for getting in touch with yourself and figuring out your core values/mission statement/goals what has worked for you? I've always had trouble digging deep and truly coming up with something meaningful.
 

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The 16 personalities test outcome was very interesting to read, and after doing like you suggested (looking up more info on other sites), even on the first attempt the result seems very fitting. This is really interesting to read about when something speaks to you so much and you recognize yourself.
(I got back ISFJ-T by the way). I'll be doing the test again later on to see if anything changes.

Getting a clear view on personal values and goals really makes sense, and is what I think I've been doing all along, without knowing it. Looking at my current life and actions, not everything seems to align.
Food for thought.
Thanks for the write up. Following to read the rest
 
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Wow @eliquid your posts are SPOT ON! I absolutely overstand what you mean as I have been experiencing similar for quite some time now and indeed, the empowering part of the whole equation is really being honest with oneself; this helps in sorting out the b.s. from what is necessary. I have been facing the good, the bad and the ugly about myself, I'm also getting to recognise where my strengths and weaknesses lie, and while I will not know every single thing about me, it IS helping me make changes necessary for me to succeed in different aspects of life.

We often speak about doing uncomfortable, yet sensible things to get ahead on the forum and when we are honest about who we are, what our principles are and the like, it helps overcome the discomfort, as we become more focused on what is important. As you have stated, as we grow on the journey, our core values change, but this is necessary, as life is about evolving and not being stagnant.

Your post helped put into words what I've been going through in my head for a while. Thanks for this, I am saving this post.
 

RayAndré

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Myers Briggs picks me as an ESFJ. A lot of what the description on 16personalities says is true. Some of it not so much. But as I read it I can tell...I don't want to be the stereotype personality it describes.
Now I have some direction.
Another really good test I good was the DISC assessment. It was introduced to me through Tony Robbins' website and man that thing is detailed!

Also, I went through the 600+ value list and narrowed it down to the following five.

Adventure
Elevate
Different
Variety
Efficiency

(If you're looking for a good way how to narrow down the list let me know, it was pretty daunting but I found what I think to be a good approach.)
Writing a mission statement will be next. I'm also planning to do a similar narrow-down approach to my list of strengths from all these tests to have a clear understanding of what I'm naturally good at.
This has been really interesting and a great self-learning experience so far.

Thanks @eliquid
 

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So, I did this! I did the core value words, the enneagram test and the MBTI test several times over several weeks. The MBTI results gave me a 4 way split personality. :rofl: I am split between being an extravert and being an introvert in a lot of ways and so I said could go either way. But, more often than not when I took it, it had me as an introvert. Basically I am an INFP, which explains my uniqueness because it is a very small percentage of the population. I really liked the in depth analysis of the 16personalities.com test, and I definitely recommend taking that one along with several others.

On the enneagram test, I hover between a 4 (the Individualist) and a 2 (the Helper), and could also be a 6 (The Loyalist). This also explains me, and here too, I was a split personality. I think most often, I got 4w2, though.

I also did my core value words, which I think I am going to keep to myself, but I will use them as a barometer for things I am considering doing.

@eliquid --I can't thank you enough for posting this, as it's really narrowed down what I should do, and what fits with me.
So THANK YOU! :clap:: Major rep + coming your way.

Seriously, anyone who is considering doing these exercises--DO THEM! You won't be disappointed, well, you might be a bit. I was a little nonplussed to find that my personality is HELPER. I don't want to be a helper o_O, I want to focus on me for a bit.

2's and 4's are on the same stress/growth line.

You might be a 2 in a growth pattern and leaning towards 4, or a 4 in a stress pattern leaning towards 2.

I'm an 8, and I lean towards 5 when stressed. I had a few initial tests that told me I was a 5 (at the time I was more like a 5)

Since 2 and 4 are connected, seems like a good place to dig deeper anyway.
 

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