Narcissistic Personality Disorder in Successful people...

[hakrjak]

I took a Psychological test recently for fun, and the results came back that I'm relatively mentally healthy (A shock to you all, I know! haha) -- but I may "suffer" from a disorder known as "Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

According to the Psychologists DSM guide, you must fit 5 of the following criteria to be have this disorder:

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, or beauty.
3. Belief that s/he is “special” and unique.
4. Excessive need for admiration.
5. Sense of entitlement.
6. Tendency to be interpersonally exploitative.
7. Lacks empathy.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

I think I probably fit atleast 5 of those criteria pretty easily, and was doing some research online today -- and it would appear that I'm not alone. It would seem that this disorder might actually be something that many truly successful people share. This disorder might actually be a marker for success....

Some names that came up during my research of people who probably share or shared the disorder included:

1). Donald Trump (Probably the "poster boy" for NPD)
2). Arnold Schwarzenegger
3). Steve Jobs (Another guy who fits almost ALL the criteria)
4). Naomi Campbell
5). James Dean
6). Bobby Fischer
7). Larry Flint
8). William Randolf Hearst
9). Adolf Hitler
10). Michael Jackson
11). Jerry Lee Lewis
12). Madonna
13). Imelda Marcos
14). John McEnroe

Without having to think very hard, and using the criteria above -- I could think of a lot more successful people I know that possess the same traits, good or bad... Ones that come to mind immediately:

- Terrell Owens, Robert Kiyosaki, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Clinton, Tom Brady, Tom Cruise, Armando Montelongo, Jeff from "Flipping Out", All the Realtors on "Million Dollar Listing"... and the list goes on....

In conclusion I decided that it's not such a bad thing if I have this disorder. Atleast I am in good company, for the most part! haha

What do you guys think? Are there a lot of people that hang out in this forum that also "suffer" from NPD? (I'm betting there is a high concentration of folks here, but let's find out!)

Cheers,

- Hakrjak

 

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[PaulRobert]

The best ones that describe me. I guess I have a disorder now. :smxE:

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, or beauty.
3. Belief that s/he is “special” and unique.
4. Excessive need for admiration.
8. Believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.-Sometimes

 

[hakrjak]

Hehe, I don't want to offend anybody by naming names... But I can think of atleast 10 people here that fit these criteria!

- Hakrjak

 

[kurtyordy]

Hehe, I don't want to offend anybody by naming names... But I can think of atleast 10 people here that fit these criteria!

- Hakrjak

true narcissists will not care, just as long as you are mentioning their names.

I was 6-8 of the above, depends what mood I am in.

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

true narcissists will not care, just as long as you are mentioning their names.

I was 6-8 of the above, depends what mood I am in.

Really? That surprises me.

 

[mkzhang]

I think you should look at the DSM-IV and see if you truly qualify. Just because you have the qualities does not mean you are diagnose with the illness.

Usually in psychology, you are only diagnose with the illness if the characteristics of those traits are strong enough to affect your daily lives.

Say for example, you are so preoccupied with self success that you bum around everyday dreaming, and that you are so self entitled and think you are the ish that you call your parents plebians... then I will say you have a case for the illness.

 

[kurtyordy]

Really? That surprises me.

easy- it is a weakness I constantly work to correct. Number 7 is almost gone, but that has only begun to disappear in the last 2 years. Number 9 is my current project. 2 and 8 will probably be the last to go.

2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, or beauty.
3. Belief that s/he is “special†and unique.

5. Sense of entitlement.

7. Lacks empathy.
8. believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

 

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[hakrjak]

I think you should look at the DSM-IV and see if you truly qualify. Just because you have the qualities does not mean you are diagnose with the illness.

I had it on my lap when I wrote the post.... And I sat down with a psychologist about it a couple days ago. A diagnosis is made if a patient has 5 or more of the criteria listed, regardless of if it's a problem in their life. This particular disorder is something that people are thought to be able to live with and function quite normally. My point was that I think it's actually a benefit to most people who have it, as evidenced by the list of stars and rock star Entrepreneurs who seem to have it.... It's classified as a disorder, but it definitely seems to be something that pushes you towards achieving success much more than "normal" people.

Curious to know if MJ thinks he qualifies also?

-Hakrjak

 

[LagunaLauren]

I know a few mega-successful people who would definitely be classified under this criteria. I've thought these personality traits contributed to their success. Didn't consider it narcissistic before reading this, but definitely recognized the strong confidence (sometimes cockiness) they all possess. The unwavering belief in themselves and their abilities are a definite advantage mentally for success.

 

[mkzhang]

I had it on my lap when I wrote the post.... And I sat down with a psychologist about it a couple days ago. A diagnosis is made if a patient has 5 or more of the criteria listed, regardless of if it's a problem in their life. This particular disorder is something that people are thought to be able to live with and function quite normally. My point was that I think it's actually a benefit to most people who have it, as evidenced by the list of stars and rock star Entrepreneurs who seem to have it.... It's classified as a disorder, but it definitely seems to be something that pushes you towards achieving success much more than "normal" people.

Curious to know if MJ thinks he qualifies also?

-Hakrjak

I was just saying because there is always a fine line between whether someone has "this" or has "that". Because as you know, 99% of the the US population has OCD

 

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[WildFlower]

I know a few mega-successful people who would definitely be classified under this criteria. I've thought these personality traits contributed to their success. Didn't consider it narcissistic before reading this, but definitely recognized the strong confidence (sometimes cockiness) they all possess. The unwavering belief in themselves and their abilities are a definite advantage mentally for success.

I know a lot more unsuccessful people that fit the bill. It's all how you use it, I guess.

 

[hakrjak]

True that both types could have NPD, but are more people with NPD driven to success than not?

Sounds like a great topic for a dissertation if anybody here is working on their Psych PHD.

Would love to see some actual data on this.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak

 

[AroundTheWorld]

Sounds like a great topic for a dissertation if anybody here is working on their Psych PHD.

Would love to see some actual data on this.

Agreed! It would be a fascinating study.

 

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[michael]

I took a Psychological test recently for fun, and the results came back that I'm relatively mentally healthy (A shock to you all, I know! haha) -- but I may "suffer" from a disorder known as "Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

According to the Psychologists DSM guide, you must fit 5 of the following criteria to be have this disorder:

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, or beauty.
3. Belief that s/he is “special†and unique.
4. Excessive need for admiration.
5. Sense of entitlement.
6. Tendency to be interpersonally exploitative.
7. Lacks empathy.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

Some names that came up during my research of people who probably share or shared the disorder included:

2). Arnold Schwarzenegger

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-YbpJpS_xU]YouTube - CBC Archives: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Poised and Pensive, 1978[/ame]

Arnie's a likely candidate check out this clip and its clear he fits criteria 1,2 3 and 6 but he isn't exactly arrogant or lacking in empathy, from 4:30 he mentions about the ego being important to help drive him but its something that needs to be kept in check.

I think confidence and big dreams will get you far but humility and a willingness to listen is essential, thankfully this is something I've been taught from a young age.

Arrogance, lack of empathy and entitlement is just going to have people see you as an a$$, lead you to make foolish mistakes and end up making people wary or reluctant to deal with and help you.

 

[Oracle]

I don't see what is wrong with thinking of yourself as special or being grandiose.
Those things don't bother me, usually. Especially after reading and listening to Dr. Gene Landrum.

Its a good thing our professors are creating new diseases.

 

[kurtyordy]

Are you guys still talking about this? I already gave my opinion, and that is the only one that matters. :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:

 

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[hakrjak]

Here's a clear Jackass who has it... haha

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDumy2U3Fk]YouTube - Kanye West - Speech Vancouver[/ame]

 

[hatterasguy]

Its a disorder now? I wonder when they are going to come out with a pill for it...

 

[hakrjak]

Its a disorder now? I wonder when they are going to come out with a pill for it...

There is no recommended treatment other than therapy, which it sounds like is only suggested if you have trouble empathising with other people... And if you've got that, you've probably got other issues -- because only a true Psycho can't feel other people's pain at all...

For the rest of it, I'd refuse any therapy at all.... That would be like SUPERMAN going to Therapy to get rid of his powers to fly and have x-ray viison!!! haha

- Hakrjak

 

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[hatterasguy]

Screw them, its only a disorder when your poor. When you have money than your just a bit eccentric, which is fine.

 

[The Abundant Man]

I doubt Adolf Hitler had NPD lol. He was very introverted person who kept to himself most of the time.

 

[Bearcorp]

I doubt Adolf Hitler had NPD lol. He was very introverted person who kept to himself most of the time.

Is that so? How well did you know him?

 

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[The Abundant Man]

Is that so? How well did you know him?

Of course I don't personally know him but you read about the Nazi Party and the Third Reich and he does have a very interesting story of going from a poor broke artist to leading an entire nation. At first he was considered to be a nobody. He was this shy introverted kid who had social issues. He was a recluse. Women rejected him all the time. Nobody liked him.

He found the Nationalist Socialist Party at some rally. At first they hated him. He was doing a grassroots campaign preaching about, "The German Leadership has failed us. We've been stuck in this economic depression for the past two decades since the first World War. Every nation hates us and has always hated us." Overtime, he slowly came into power because everybody was thinking he wasn't capable. Adolf was a clumsy person. All these politicians kept putting him as assistant to other politicians thinking that his stupidity would bring these people down. It's more their own fault. Eventually Adolf was unstoppable.

It's interesting how Germany was broke before WW2, they were broke during WW2 and they were broke after WW2. Even if Germany won WW2 they would still go broke. Adolf wanted to bring back old Prussia dominance which is why he annexed Austria and took over Poland. Adolf essentially gave all these false promises to the German people.

Adolf was a very paranoid character in the last few years of WW2. He started doing a bunch of recreational drugs and was an avid ancient astronaut theorist. The Indianna Jones film series does have some truth in his wanting to collect religious artifacts believing that they did hold special powers. He had a huge grand vision of what "a thousand year reign" would look like for Germany that would rival that of Ancient Egypt, Greece and China. But Germany had absolutely no money whatsoever.

 

[NewManRising]

I don't think in general successive people have NPD or need to have it to be successful. I think the reason why you and a handful of people here have it comes down to your motives. Entrepreneurship, when successful, allows people to earn a lot of money. I think this aspect of it tends to attract people with NPD because they are the type to want to have money to show off, have people envy them, and use their money as a way to make them feel superior. They are the type who want to buy the cars, jewelry, boats, etc. And then, there are the people who simply just want to create value. The wealth they acquire does not act as an extension of their personality or who they inherently are. In other words, their identity and self-worth are intact whether they have wealth or not.

Some of the big people here on the forum like MJ, Biophase, Eliquid, Vigilante, etc to name a few I DO NOT think have NPD. If anyone has been on this forum for awhile, the wantrapreneurs proportionality outweigh the real entrepreneurs here. So, it makes sense when you say you think a lot of people here have it. Because a lot of people come here chasing money. And they are chasing money because they need it to complement their need for showing off, being better, and buying luxury items purely to gain validation and admiration from others.

Lastly, that list of successful people with NPD is full of shit. I looked through that list and don't believe any of those people have it. It's not always wise to trust bullshit websites that pop up on a google search made by some teen or some clueless jackass.

 

[NewManRising]

BTW, people with NPD and Histrionic Personality Disorder piss me off the most. I think most people with these disorders develop them through their environment, specifically their family environment. Usually starts with some sort of jealousy for a sibling or family member. They didn't get the praise they wanted and never thought other peoples' needs or attention were as important as theirs. So, that is where the lack of empathy part comes from. They feel only their needs matter because they are the most important person.

 

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[Real Deal Denver]

Of course I don't personally know him but you read about the Nazi Party and the Third Reich and he does have a very interesting story of going from a poor broke artist to leading an entire nation. At first he was considered to be a nobody. He was this shy introverted kid who had social issues. He was a recluse. Women rejected him all the time. Nobody liked him.

He found the Nationalist Socialist Party at some rally. At first they hated him. He was doing a grassroots campaign preaching about, "The German Leadership has failed us. We've been stuck in this economic depression for the past two decades since the first World War. Every nation hates us and has always hated us." Overtime, he slowly came into power because everybody was thinking he wasn't capable. Adolf was a clumsy person. All these politicians kept putting him as assistant to other politicians thinking that his stupidity would bring these people down. It's more their own fault. Eventually Adolf was unstoppable.

It's interesting how Germany was broke before WW2, they were broke during WW2 and they were broke after WW2. Even if Germany won WW2 they would still go broke. Adolf wanted to bring back old Prussia dominance which is why he annexed Austria and took over Poland. Adolf essentially gave all these false promises to the German people.

Adolf was a very paranoid character in the last few years of WW2. He started doing a bunch of recreational drugs and was an avid ancient astronaut theorist. The Indianna Jones film series does have some truth in his wanting to collect religious artifacts believing that they did hold special powers. He had a huge grand vision of what "a thousand year reign" would look like for Germany that would rival that of Ancient Egypt, Greece and China. But Germany had absolutely no money whatsoever.

If you are not a history teacher, you should be.

I can't tell you how much history bored me to the bone. Sucked the living cells out of me. Hated it with a fierce passion.

And then you come along. GREAT insight. Thanks for taking the time for a great post. Rep++

 

[The Abundant Man]

If you are not a history teacher, you should be.

I can't tell you how much history bored me to the bone. Sucked the living cells out of me. Hated it with a fierce passion.

And then you come along. GREAT insight. Thanks for taking the time for a great post. Rep++

Hmmmmm...Now how to turn this into a fastlane? Videos of History on Youtube? A History Blog? History ebooks? Maybe I can go on Indiana Jones adventures and sell any artifacts that I found through an ecommerce store?

 

[WildFlower]

Honestly. To understand a Narc you have to be in deep with the person. I have lots of experience unfortunately. AND none of them are huge successfully. In fact they sabotage themselves unknowingly. There are different levels of Narcissism. Also describe successful. Are you talking only money driven? Or relationship successful? Nearly every Narc has a hard time with relationships because the Narc mind thinks they own people. They own their wife.. or husband.. or kids so they behave that way. If you "get" them somehow they will punish you. Trust me they will punish you. If you outsmart them.. punish. If you disagree and have better points, punish. The beauty is that they think what would bother them would bother you, but often that is not true. So the punishments are lost once you recognize it's just a punishment. There's no value behind it. I will say this. Once you understand how a narcissist works, you can keep a couple steps ahead as they behave textbook. The important thing to remember is not to be emotional.

 

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[WildFlower]

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, or beauty.
3. Belief that s/he is “special” and unique.
4. Excessive need for admiration.
5. Sense of entitlement.
6. Tendency to be interpersonally exploitative.
7. Lacks empathy.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

Narcs are way more than just this. Many of these things repeat. This site is much better at listing the traits. So much deeper than just "They think they are the best" ... in fact they don't. It says he/him but I know a few women that are narcs too.

Characteristics of the Narcissist | NarcissisticAbuse.com


Certain characteristics appear with stunning regularity among narcissists. Since narcissism is on a continuum, some will have more than others.

These characteristics apply to males and females

1. Self-centered. His needs are paramount.

2. No remorse for mistakes or misdeeds.

3. Unreliable, undependable.

4. Does not care about the consequences of his actions.

5. Projects faults on to others. High blaming behavior; never his fault.

6. Little if any conscience.

7. Insensitive to needs and feelings of others.

8. Has a good front (persona) to impress and exploit others.

9. Low stress tolerance. Easy to anger and rage.

10. People are to be manipulated for his needs.

11. Rationalizes easily. Twists conversation to his gain at other’s expense. If trapped, keeps talking, changes the subject or gets angry.

12. Pathological lying.

13. Tremendous need to control situations, conversations, others.

14. No real values. Mostly situational.

15. Often perceived as caring and understanding and uses this to manipulate.

16. Angry, mercurial, moods.

17. Uses sex to control

18. Does not share ideas, feelings, emotions.

19. Conversation controller. Must have the first and last word.

20. Is very slow to forgive others. Hangs onto resentment.

21. Secret life. Hides money, friends, activities.

22. Likes annoying others. Likes to create chaos and disrupt for no reason.

23. Moody – switches from nice guy to anger without much provocation.

24. Repeatedly fails to honor financial obligations.

25. Seldom expresses appreciation.

26. Grandiose. Convinced he knows more than others and is correct in all he does.

27. Lacks ability to see how he comes across to others. Defensive when confronted with his behavior. Never his fault.

28. Can get emotional, tearful. This is about show or frustration rather than sorrow.

29. He breaks woman’s spirits to keep them dependent.

30. Needs threats, intimidations to keep others close to him.

31. Sabotages partner. Wants her to be happy only through him and to have few or no outside interests and acquaintances.

32. Highly contradictory.

33. Convincing. Must convince people to side with him.

34. Hides his real self. Always “on”

35. Kind only if he’s getting from you what he wants.

36. He has to be right. He has to win. He has to look good.

37. He announces, not discusses. He tells, not asks.

38. Does not discuss openly, has a hidden agenda.

39. Controls money of others but spends freely on himself.

40. Unilateral condition of, “I’m OK and justified so I don’t need to hear your position or ideas”

41. Always feels misunderstood.

42. You feel miserable with this person. He drains you.

43. Does not listen because he does not care.

44. His feelings are discussed, not the partners.

45. Is not interested in problem-solving.

46. Very good at reading people, so he can manipulate them. Sometimes called gaslighting.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

Nearly every Narc has a hard time with relationships because the Narc mind thinks they own people. They own their wife.. or husband.. or kids so they behave that way. If you "get" them somehow they will punish you. Trust me they will punish you. If you outsmart them.. punish. If you disagree and have better points, punish.

22. Likes annoying others. Likes to create chaos and disrupt for no reason.

I'm dealing with one of these idiots now. I just threw a couple hundred dollars of profit out the window to take a stand and not back down. Kind of painful, but worth it to maintain my own self esteem.

Sometimes these narcs cross paths with the wrong person. Although it cost me time and money, it was some of the best money I've ever spent. I know, in no way, would this pathetic person ever imagine someone would have the strength to take a stand against them and burn their own money in protest. I hope he realizes that other people can do that, and are much stronger than he will ever be.

"Some things are priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard." Is that how that saying goes? Sure applied in my case.

Thanks for a GREAT post. Rep+