Movies like Zeitgeist and The Secret?

[Sparlin]

Spoiler alert: I'll write this just to save someone else 3 hours.

I just watched Zeitgeist and thought it was very interesting. What I gathered is that it basically advocates a Utopian global society. One that abolishes all currencies and greatly reduces man's responsibilities to self while calling for equality among the masses. The film is based on several presuppositions which are more easily disproved than proved.

The opening premise is that genetics determine one's ability to adapt to life; however the range of adaptation depends greatly on environmental factors. Its these predetermining factors that explain all negative human behaviors. Since behavior is a product of environment combined with genetics, no one is truly accountable for his actions.

The movie then discussed a history of the world's economies along with their emergence into the current global system, all of which is explained from a singular viewpoint. The film spends almost an hour defining capitalism only to demonize it and it's supporters. Holding true to the theory that no one is accountable for their actions, capitalist are sympathetically viewed as mentally impaired (movie's stated viewpoint, not mine).

The plot continues by showing how the planet is being exploited by those who greedily choose to build their lives on the backs of the destitute. It exposes what is perceived to be the problem with the current consumption rate of global resources, then mockingly questions the decision making abilities of capitalist.

A model of the proposed Utopian world is then shown and explained. Of course, individual happiness on a global scale is assumed. The society functions primarily by using 97% mechanical automation to address their daily needs. A global network is established to monitor various regions and corrects any logistical problems.


The movie concludes by indicating that we are at the precipice of global catastrophe and that change must occur. This is symbolized when the mostly docile, yet massive world population face off against police powers who are the paid protectors of capitalist. Rather than resorting to all out violence, the world's population refuses to play by the established rules and voluntarily discards all money.


My conclusion is that this film was interesting because it presented a philosophy which seems to be permeating many cultures. My OPINION is that the film's message is misleading because it takes some truths then mixes them with broad accusations in order to support their premise. Although their reasoning appears sound at first, it can be easily rebutted if viewed objectively.

 

[Neon]

"The Secret" has some good info in it but I believe it's been so successful because it sells the lie that just thinking about something will make it happen.

"Hey, I don't need to quit playing Xbox for 5 hours a day and eating Hot Pockets...I just need to spend 15 minutes a day visualizing my Ferrari!"

It literally enables people who probably aren't doing much with their lives anyway to justify extravagant aspirations without any value coming into the picture.

Successful people didn't get there by wishing for big houses and fast cars...they looked for an opportunity to provide value to society, charged a fair price for it and became wealthy by serving others. Out of that success flows the wealthy lifestyle.

 

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[Robert Francis]

The Secret And Zeitgeist and Fastlane Mentality

Anybody have any recommendations of movies like these? They are pretty captivating and get you to open your mind.

This thread caught my attention because both of these films (for different reasons) would be the type of films I need to avoid when attempting to maintain a "Fastlane Attitude."

I was just re-reading MJ's book last night and happened to stumble on the section related to "The Secret" and loved that section, particularly because he so clearly drew comparisons between a "Fastlane" mind set and that of "The Secret."

After reading it, I was actually RELIEVED because since watching "The Secret" years ago, I've been carrying around a vague subconscious ADDITIONAL guilt item that I wasn't ALSO spending enough time "Manifesting" and that the REAL reason I was not exactly where I wanted to be was because I hadn't spent enough time "thinking" about what needed to be done.

MJ made me feel as if it was okay to just "get to it" and focus on the "doing" and quit worrying about "bringing the universe around with my mind"; I can bring the universe around with my ACTIONS.

Granted, for some, the concepts in "The Secret" are new and probably helpful (i.e. Whatever you believe you can achieve, etc.), but for an OLD guy like me, it does (per MJ) seem like just the latest re-hash of the Positive Mental Attitude stuff I discovered decades ago.

Relative to Zeitgeist, where do I begin?

Is there anything in those movies that won't IMPEDE your attempt to stay in the Fastlane?

Again, maybe it's just me, but those movies (and the million others online) that have the basic theme of "They" are really in control (Not YOU!), etc. Just SAP every ounce of motivation out of me.

Although it is very possible that aliens or reptiles or the Illuminati or the Bilderbergs do, in fact, run the world...what is me watching a video about it going to accomplish?

And, even if it is true, it makes me think of that famous line, "We tell ourselves stories every second of our day...I choose to tell myself stories that make me feel empowered and motivated and happy."

It's really hard for me to feel "positive" after watching 99% of these films.

IMHO, these films propagate just one additional "slow lane" idea that someone else/something else is the cause of my non success/non happiness....but, instead of it being "the man"...it's a 6 foot reptilian Illuminati.

 

[michael]

Spoiler alert: I'll write this just to save someone else 3 hours.

Thanks for the write up.

I just watched Zeitgeist and thought it was very interesting. What I gathered is that it basically advocates a Utopian global society. One that abolishes all currencies and greatly reduces man's responsibilities to self while calling for equality among the masses. The film is based on several presuppositions which are more easily disproved than proved.

How can removing money be beneficial to man? Without a price system that signals to producers so that they know how much individuals consume how can they claim peoples needs will be met by some magical zeitgeist?

The absolute necessity of the price system is a simple concept outlined by preeminent economist Ludwig Von Mises in his writings "Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth" and later "Socialism, an Economic and Sociological Analysis" and expanded one by others including Friedrich Hayek and Murray N Rothbard.

It is a simple concept if you read works by these people. In history we only need to look at the USSR, Mao's China, East Germany, Democratic Kampuchea, Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea to see what happens when the price system is eliminated and replaced by rationing. Food and medicine shortages result and hundreds of millions die.

The opening premise is that genetics determine one's ability to adapt to life; however the range of adaptation depends greatly on environmental factors. Its these predetermining factors that explain all negative human behaviors. Since behavior is a product of environment combined with genetics, no one is truly accountable for his actions.

This is another crazy assertion which when you accept the logical conclusion that free will exists and as they admit one is influenced by their environment, if one's environment is causing them to make bad choices they are more than capable of moving into a more positive environment.

The movie then discussed a history of the world's economies along with their emergence into the current global system, all of which is explained from a singular viewpoint. The film spends almost an hour defining capitalism only to demonize it and it's supporters. Holding true to the theory that no one is accountable for their actions, capitalist are sympathetically viewed as mentally impaired (movie's stated viewpoint, not mine).

No doubt their definition will confused capitalism (private ownership AND control of means of production) with statism, socialism/corporatism and communism. Whilst they deride the billions of people who endeavor to trade between each other in a system that resembles capitalism as impaired they probably follow it up by making a flawed case that 'benevolent' planners in charge of their zeitgeist have infinite wisdom.

The plot continues by showing how the planet is being exploited by those who greedily choose to build their lives on the backs of the destitute. It exposes what is perceived to be the problem with the current consumption rate of global resources, then mockingly questions the decision making abilities of capitalist.

Again the makers of this film show they lack an understanding of simple economic theory. They arrogantly suggest the collective knowledge and decision making abilities of close to 6 billion people worldwide is less than a handful of 'benevolent' planners.

Blaming capitalism for the uneven playing field that exists demonstrates lazy logic, conveniently they forget an immense number of tariffs, trade restrictions and manipulation of currencies not to mention racist institutions like India's caste system and direct military intervention by powerful states that has destabilised so many nations. Deliberately confusing capitalism with statism, socialism and statism is yet another act of intellectual dishonesty the film makers commit.

A model of the proposed Utopian world is then shown and explained. Of course, individual happiness on a global scale is assumed. The society functions primarily by using 97% mechanical automation to address their daily needs. A global network is established to monitor various regions and corrects any logistical problems.

Again they show extreme arrogance by suggesting their system can ensure individual happiness better than one that puts an individual in charge of their own life and that a 'global network' that has the power to exercise control over people can be a positive thing.

This automation they call for, surely it must be powered by resources they deride capitalists as wasting. Surely it come to fruition through the sharing of knowledge, how can this knowledge be shared without a price system that incentives people serving others?

Do they offer a disclaimer that their system would almost certainly lead to sloth and prohibit man from making numerous breakthroughs in medicine, materials, energy production and transfer and more areas that promise to provide another huge leap forward in living standards?

The movie concludes by indicating that we are at the precipice of global catastrophe and that change must occur. This is symbolized when the mostly docile, yet massive world population face off against police powers who are the paid protectors of capitalist. Rather than resorting to all out violence, the world's population refuses to play by the established rules and voluntarily discards all money.

Once again in concluding that police are protecting capitalists they confuse a system that incentives sharing, peaceful cooperation and ingenuity with a sick system of socialism and corporatism that pervades today.

My conclusion is that this film was interesting because it presented a philosophy which seems to be permeating many cultures. My OPINION is that the film's message is misleading because it takes some truths then mixes them with broad accusations in order to support their premise. Although their reasoning appears sound at first, it can be easily rebutted if viewed objectively.

I agree, it is certainly interesting to see some people hold these views you outlined. Based on your write up the film relies on a series of false definitions, baseless accusations and a distinct lack of fact to seize on peoples opposition to socialism and corporatism in order to fuel an attempt for another move to a marxian society.

People who are interested in viewing this film would ultimately be better served by learning the real definition of capitalism so they do not confuse it with statism, socialism or corporatism. They would be better served by reading up on the economic calculation problem to understand why doing away with money is fanciful and destructive. They'd be better of learning the distinction between inflation (monetary expansion) and the resulting price increases which people often muddle and once they've learned that then learning how monetary expansion creates business cycles would be wise.

That people allow themselves to be dumbed down by movies like this is a great shame and is a reflection on the lack of critical skills most people posses. I fear that works like this and others which blame capitalism for the crisises caused by bastardised versions of capitalism across the world will be the fuel that rockets great nations decades backwards into the destructive grip of socialism.

Relative to Zeitgeist, where do I begin?

Is there anything in those movies that won't IMPEDE your attempt to stay in the Fastlane?

Again, maybe it's just me, but those movies (and the million others online) that have the basic theme of "They" are really in control (Not YOU!), etc. Just SAP every ounce of motivation out of me.

Although it is very possible that aliens or reptiles or the Illuminati or the Bilderbergs do, in fact, run the world...what is me watching a video about it going to accomplish?

It's really hard for me to feel "positive" after watching 99% of these films.

IMHO, these films propagate just one additional "slow lane" idea that someone else/something else is the cause of my non success/non happiness....but, instead of it being "the man"...it's a 6 foot reptilian Illuminati.

100% Agree.

We all are given a choice to be who we want to be. In America we can wake up in the morning and choose to be who we are. We have the ability to pursue our own dreams, our own happiness.

What makes me happy doesn't necessarily make my neighbor happy or their neighbor. The film talks about this country is made up of all kinds of different people. We don't have black problems or jew problems or hispanic problems but we have human problems. That is fine to state but we have to also realize that all humans are different. What I choose to pursue and what makes me happy is not the same as what my sister chooses to do, even though we were both brought up under the same roof, had the same influential parents and teachers and friends in the community.

I want to make millions. My friend doesn't need or want a lot of money and wants to be in the Army for the rest of his life. I have another friend who likes to sit on the couch and watch TV. He knows he can do other things but is perfectly content.

The film assumes all people want the same things in life and can all live together in harmony once we remove money from the equation.

Exactly, the subjective nature of value highlights yet another fallacy in the movies reasoning. In a system where people are not free to pursue their individual needs it is impossible to assume individual happiness on a global scale as the film does.

 

[TK1]

Stuff like The Secret is like religion etc.

For any intelligent and logically thinking person it's clear that it's food for the masses to make them feel good etc.

Nevertheless it's senseless to argue with anybody in the world about religion, The Secret, music taste or whatever.

Either you are on the first side or the second, or third etc. whatever...waste of energy ;-)

 

[ryanpal]

Anybody have any recommendations of movies like these? They are pretty captivating and get you to open your mind.

ps - for those that haven't seen zeitgeist, you can watch for free online

 

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[Jonleehacker]

So you've finally recovered from B&P?

Nice to see you're still alive!

 

[ryanpal]

two words "short sales"

 

[alainn]

check out the compass

 

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[NHS]

I enjoyed watching both movies. You might check out some of David Icke's speeches. Very interesting guy.

I did learn one very important lesson from watching the secret. That is "Everything is your fault." Gave me a new perspective on things and it has served me well.

 

[DeletedUser394]

The Secret is an abomination.
Not to mention a sizeable portion of the "experts" interviewed have been charged with various forms of scams since its release.

Common sense that the "Law of Attraction" cannot work on its own (as the movie so claims);

Why "The Secret" Sucks!

NHS are you for real??? Please tell me you don't follow the insanities preached by Icke. The man is a raging lunatic. The fool is even banned from entering my home country, on the basis of anti-semitism, not to mention he is a holocaust denier who believes that reptilian humanoids are secretly controlling the universe through ancient brotherhoods. Give me a break.

 

[John Rogers]

I hadn't seen Zeitgeist and really didn't know anything about it other than it sounded interesting. I had been waiting for it to pop up on Netflix. Then I saw someone post today on Facebook that you can stream it for free. I'm going to watch it this afternoon.

It seems to stream direct from YouTube better than through the official site.

YouTube - ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

You can also get the DVD from the official site for $5 plus shipping (a more than reasonable $8 total in the US).

The Zeitgeist Film Series Gateway | Zeitgeist: The Movie, Zeitgeist: Addendum, Zeitgeist Moving Forward

 

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[onmyway]

Zeitgeist was a really good it kept me hooked throughout especially when they talk about the federal reserve. I haven't seen The Secret yet I'm going to have to check it out/

 

[NHS]

NHS are you for real??? Please tell me you don't follow the insanities preached by Icke. The man is a raging lunatic. The fool is even banned from entering my home country, on the basis of anti-semitism, not to mention he is a holocaust denier who believes that reptilian humanoids are secretly controlling the universe through ancient brotherhoods. Give me a break.

Yes I am for real that I enjoy his speeches. Has a very different way of looking at the world. If you don't want to here other peoples perspective how will you ever understand others? In fact it's the anti-semetic and reptile stuff that people accuse him of that made me take a look. Because to the best of knowledge he has never said anything anti-semetic. So I had to hear what this guy was talking about that scared people so bad. Guy talks about reptiles and how he views reality and somehow that scares the shit out of people, so yes I find it all very interesting.

Now I watched Avatar? Heck I kind enjoyed it. So how does watching something by David Icke get such an ignorant response but saying I enjoyed Avatar doesn't. Here is a guy with a unique view of things and creates a much more interesting story then cowboys and indians in space. What did he say that scared you so bad? Hell I could be wrong but I think he did voice over for Zeitgeist.

 

[Gymjunkie]

The Secret is an abomination.
Not to mention a sizeable portion of the "experts" interviewed have been charged with various forms of scams since its release.

Common sense that the "Law of Attraction" cannot work on its own (as the movie so claims);

Why "The Secret" Sucks!

.

The Secret is good and works, but it should have focused more on telling people to take action. Visualization works.. not just imagining what you want to be but actually being OBSESSED with your vision and constantly thinking about how to make it happen. It is advice from friend I got in 12th grade. We were classmates but he already had a successful company and somehow he gave the similar advice to the Secret..

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

What the bleep do we know?
What the Bleep Do We Know!? & What the Bleep!? - Down the Rabbit Hole

Quantum Physics, documentary, interesting viewing. Another thread somewhere in this forum.

 

[DeletedUser394]

Yes I am for real that I enjoy his speeches. Has a very different way of looking at the world. If you don't want to here other peoples perspective how will you ever understand others? In fact it's the anti-semetic and reptile stuff that people accuse him of that made me take a look. Because to the best of knowledge he has never said anything anti-semetic. So I had to hear what this guy was talking about that scared people so bad. Guy talks about reptiles and how he views reality and somehow that scares the shit out of people, so yes I find it all very interesting.

Now I watched Avatar? Heck I kind enjoyed it. So how does watching something by David Icke get such an ignorant response but saying I enjoyed Avatar doesn't. Here is a guy with a unique view of things and creates a much more interesting story then cowboys and indians in space. What did he say that scared you so bad? Hell I could be wrong but I think he did voice over for Zeitgeist.

That's some flawed logic right there.

What does Avatar (a FICTIONAL movie for entertainment purposes) have with David Icke (who means everything he says in a LITERAL sense)

You think his detractors are afraid of what he has to say? That's laughable. Scared? I pity the fool, for he clearly has no concept of reality.

You can say anything on any topic, but if you can't quantify it or prove it unequivocally, then any opinion can be easily refuted.

"A review in The Irish Times entitled “Zeitgeist: the Nonsense” wrote that “these are surreal perversions of genuine issues and debates, and they tarnish all criticism of faith, the Bush administration and globalization—there are more than enough factual injustices in this world to be going around without having to invent fictional ones." -Skeptic magazine's Tim Callahan

Other reviews assert that it is "conspiracy crap", “based solely on anecdotal evidence” and “fiction couched in a few facts”, or disparaging reference is made to its part in the 9/11 truth movement."

Completely laughable. THERE ARE BLATANT FACTUAL INACCURACIES THROUGHOUT... who is too ignorant to see this?

Is it true that the majority of Americans will believe anything? To the rest of the world, it seems like it.

That's about the end of my contribution to this thread. Why I waste my time on lunacy is beyond me.

 

[DeletedUser394]

The Secret is good and works, but it should have focused more on telling people to take action. Visualization works.. not just imagining what you want to be but actually being OBSESSED with your vision and constantly thinking about how to make it happen. It is advice from friend I got in 12th grade. We were classmates but he already had a successful company and somehow he gave the similar advice to the Secret..

Know what you want.
Write down your goals with a deadline for completion.
Develop a plan to reach them.
Do it.

(I just saved anyone who hasn't watched the Secret two hours)

 

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[Gymjunkie]

Know what you want.
Write down your goals with a deadline for completion.
Develop a plan to reach them.
Do it.

(I just saved anyone who hasn't watched the Secret two hours)

It's worth watching to get motivated! And not become too self-critical even tho it's all your fault all the time!

 

[DeletedUser394]

It's worth watching to get motivated! And not become too self-critical even tho it's all your fault all the time!

I have asthma, scoliosis, and cancer. Is that really my fault?

At my age, of course not. It has to do with genetics, and environmental factors (that are outside of my control).

There, I've just disproved the main point of the damn movie.

If you need to watch a movie to keep your motivation, then you clearly don't want it bad enough.

Financial freedom, and philanthropy are good enough for me.

 

[John Rogers]

I have asthma, scoliosis, and cancer. Is that really my fault?

At my age, of course not. It has to do with genetics, and environmental factors (that are outside of my control).

Well, I just watched Zeitgeist and according to the film it has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with environmental factors that are/were outside of your control.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Well, I just watched Zeitgeist and according to the film it has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with environmental factors that are/were outside of your control.

Geneticists, Oncologists, Cancer Specialists, Biologists, Family Doctor Practitioners, and anyone else who is qualified on such topics would disagree with that statement.

I'd like to know what qualifications Peter Joseph or David Icke have. Clearly none. (surprise)

 

[Gymjunkie]

I have asthma, scoliosis, and cancer. Is that really my fault?

At my age, of course not. It has to do with genetics, and environmental factors (that are outside of my control).

There, I've just disproved the main point of the damn movie.

If you need to watch a movie to keep your motivation, then you clearly don't want it bad enough.

Financial freedom, and philanthropy are good enough for me.

You clearly have a negative point of view. Focus on what you have and can do man!
Having cancer twice didn't prevent Steve Jobs from making Apple great.. Being dyslexic didn't keep Richard Branson away from being the only man to have 8 multi-BILLION companies created! The guy is literally dumb and he still made it.. Your fault is your attitude not that you have a disease! You got talent, USE it. Don't worry about what is in your way.. If you have it harder than others, ok, work harder and your reward will be that much bigger and sweeter!

 

[DeletedUser394]

You clearly have a negative point of view. Focus on what you have and can do man!
Having cancer twice didn't prevent Steve Jobs from making Apple great.. Being dyslexic didn't keep Richard Branson away from being the only man to have 8 multi-BILLION companies created! The guy is literally dumb and he still made it.. Your fault is your attitude not that you have a disease! You got talent, USE it. Don't worry about what is in your way.. If you have it harder than others, ok, work harder and your reward will be that much bigger and sweeter!

You clearly can't read.

I was refuting your comment that "everything is your fault". Me having cancer is not an impediment. It's just a stepping stone.

 

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[John Rogers]

Geneticists, Oncologists, Cancer Specialists, Biologists, Family Doctor Practitioners, and anyone else who is qualified on such topics would disagree with that statement.

I'd like to know what qualifications Peter Joseph or David Icke have. Clearly none. (surprise)

I'm not defending the film or anyone involved in its production (and I don't recall David Icke being associated with it, though I may have missed it). I'm merely pointing out that you discredit yourself in your efforts to discredit the film by saying it said something that it didn't.

 

[DeletedUser394]

I'm not defending the film or anyone involved in its production (and I don't recall David Icke being associated with it, though I may have missed it). I'm merely pointing out that you discredit yourself in your efforts to discredit the film by saying it said something that it didn't.

Actually, the post in question was regarding The Secret in which they say "Everything is your fault"

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't talking about the Zeitgeist.

 

[Gymjunkie]

You clearly can't read.

I was refuting your comment that "everything is your fault". Me having cancer is not an impediment. It's just a stepping stone.

Life is like Poker, you do what you can with the hand you have. YOu play it, you know it, so use that strategy, good players at poker can be good players in life.
Yes having cancer is not your fault but being negative about it is. You control what you can do and how you react. It's a lesson I have to learn too.. Now go and do something and you will see that whatever happens you can find your fault in it too, yes not a disease not how pretty, book smart or tall you are, those are not your fault, but everything else is.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Life is like Poker, you do what you can with the hand you have. YOu play it, you know it, so use that strategy, good players at poker can be good players in life.
Yes having cancer is not your fault but being negative about it is. You control what you can do and how you react. It's a lesson I have to learn too.. Now go and do something and you will see that whatever happens you can find your fault in it too, yes not a disease not how pretty, book smart or tall you are, those are not your fault, but everything else is.

I'm not negative about my diagnosis.. I'm negative towards the stupidity of the movie The Secret. We are misunderstanding each other.

 

[Gymjunkie]

I'm not negative about my diagnosis.. I'm negative towards the stupidity of the movie The Secret. We are misunderstanding each other.

Believing is Seeing... You see what you believe in..

 

[John Rogers]

It's been quite awhile since I watched The Secret. I found it very heavy on fluff and very light on substance.

My first exposure to "The Law of Attraction" was in Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich. I can't even remember if that's what he called it, but hindsight being 20/20 it's exactly what he was talking about. That was in the mid 90s, and there are some very specific achievements measurable in dollars and time that I attribute to the "law of attraction" exercises I did as a result of reading that book.

My opinion is that how the law of attraction works for an individual is directly related to the quality of energy they invest in it.

 

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