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OFF-TOPIC Money Buys Happiness

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Vigilante

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I just took a drive along the Northwest shore of Maui with my son.

We checked out the private residences at the Ritz Carlton in Kapalua, Maui.

And I conclude and propose to you that whom ever says that money doesn't buy happiness...

never tasted it much less possessed it.

I can conclusively and factually say that someone living in some shit hole in downtown Detroit in the middle of winter will never be as happy as I will be living in a debt free penthouse on the northern coast of Maui. The ONLY differentiating factor in that equation is money.

Money buys happiness.
 

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Runum

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We were on the northwest side of Maui a couple of summers ago. Awesome scenery.
 

Deon

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Money is definitely a good thing to have, and it is a big part of the happiness equation. It's not the only part though.
If you have a lot of money, and no friends to share it with, or no lover, then you won't really be happy. Like you can have friends and a lover, and struggling to pay rent and food, which makes it hard to be completely happy.
 

InMotion

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I don't disagree, however I would like to add my two cents and humble quote;

I believe...

"Money buys freedom and opportunity. The freedom to do what you want, when you want, and the opportunity to build more, and grow more, in life and in business."
 

Rickson9

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More accurate to say that money buys temporary happiness. Stay in the Ritz for a year or two and your happiness will decline towards baseline within that timeframe.

Having money is nice, but you need more and more of it to keep the feeling going. It's like cocaine. There's no end point.
 

kirrubi

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hello vigilante i really dont disagree with you about money buying happiness.
i think in how much money can amplify the happy moments, lift you faster from the down moments and provide a safe net when you need help.
i readed in the book millionaire mind by T.harv eker he said money "works in the areas money works and love in the areas love works and try to go to a bank and deposit love" for me made sense as long i dont mix love and money.
i belive that we are seeking peace and freedom to do what we whant to do when we whant it, take good care of the loved ones and healthy in the jorney.

thank you
 

awjt

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Money doesn't buy happiness. It can remove obstacles to happiness. Happiness is self-generated, either with or without the money. If there are many obstacles, it might be harder to get to the happiness. But it all depends on who you are.

I know people who are poor and average wealth who are happy. I'm happy, with above-average-but-still-quite-average wealth. The money didn't bring it to me. I realized a few things, put them in place in my life with what little money I had, and now, as a result of my hard work, I have a better material standing in the world, and aim to increase it. The happiness though... that's just ME. Not my money.

Be careful with identity issues around money. Dangerous territory.
 
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I read each of your posts, and appreciate the insight from each. One of the most salient points is that happiness changes like an emotion. There's an ebb and flow.

My premise is simple. On any given day, I am happier when I have 1k in my wallet than if I had zero in my wallet and bills to pay. I am happier with zero debt (definitely interlinked to cash flow). I absolutely am happier when I can afford to drink Pellegrino, eat sushi, and drink Mai Tais than if I couldn't. One of the biggest rushes in the world is to give away money. I had an amazing experience a few weeks ago in that regard... but I had to have the money to begin with in order to give it away.

Money is part of identity, whether we like to acknowledge that or not. Where you work, where you live, what you drive, how you dress, what you eat, what you give... these are all superficial aspects of identity but part of identity none the less. Hidden wealth is one of the coolest aspects of wealth - when you don't allow people to judge you by your material possessions by downplaying them intentionally. However, every single one of us assesses others in part because of these superficial aspects of identity.

We talk in this forum, for example, about posers. People driving luxury cars that are not paid for. That wanna be lifestyle is part of that person's identity. Traveling the world after cashing in of a fastlane business becomes part of your identity. Living on Maui... becomes part of your identity.

You can give me spiritual, intellectual, and slowlane arguments that advocate the virtue of happiness absent of money, and I can agree with you. There's an argument to be made for a fisherman in Uganda who has never had a dollar in his life, and never had a single possession. That guy can absolutely be content/happy. I have learned to be content in all circumstances.

I have a friend whose little girl is terminal. I have encouraged them to raise as much as money as possible for research and clinical trials. Money buys access to uncommon resources, and access that they could otherwise not get to the best research minds in the country. Even in cases of tremendous grief and sadness and difficulty (such as illness) money provides for a better navigable control of that situation than if you had none. The hypothetical ability to trade money for health doesn't exist... (ask Steve Jobs)... but it provides better comfort, better information, and better medicine than the absence of money. Money can make the afflicted happier.

There's a fundamental and universal fact that money enables you to eliminate stresses that those without it are required to endure. I would be happier on a yacht in the Pacific ocean watching dolphins play than I would sitting in a slum in New York City. The yacht increases my happiness, and requires money.

Money provides peace of mind, eliminates stresses, and enhances enjoyment of things in life that contribute to happiness.
 

Pinnacle

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A quote from Francisco's Money Speech in Atlas Shrugged

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent."
 

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puckman

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My premise is simple.
it is very simple. its such a blatant fact of life and law of reality. its a real mystery to me, the resistance to such a simple statement, 'money provides more happiness.' The resistance to this fact is more of a statement of our society, a result of what people consume in the media, a gov't & pop culture that eschews hard work and self reliance, the individual. We have all been taught since public grade school that people with money are greedy immoral dirtbags.

The presupposition is that, if you have enough money to cover the basic necessities in life like, food, shelter, health, etc, that you somehow earned it erroneously, that you are flawed or immoral, that you earned your money in an illegal fashion, that you sacrificed your relationships in the greedy pursuit of money, that you're a bad father/husband/brother/son etc.

So yes, if you can afford to support yourself and family, and minimize the guaranteed random trauma we all experience in life, money does in fact provide the ability to be more happy. To think otherwise is romantic and immature. funny that I often reflected on this on our many trips to kauai.
 
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Puckman. You accurately captured my thoughts, and in a more articulate fashion than I ever could. Thanks.
 

911Carrera

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Or get a serious illness, and you will trade your location for Detroit and better health in a second.
Getting a serious illness in any situation is bad, whether you're rich or poor. The fear of death and illness causes men to be cowards. That's a more serious illness.

Money can buy happiness. The only people that say otherwise are those without money, those who don't know how to enjoy money and those with money who lie to you because they don't want you to be jealous of them.

Having money doesn't automatically mean you will be happy if you have other issues in your life that you fail to address. The moral of the story is money gives you the power to fix the common reasons for unhappiness if you know how to use its power.
 

Limitless

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"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent."
If you are able to make millions of dollars and keep growing it you are more competent than the 99%.

Money can give you the time and freedom to pursue concepts of what you want, values, knowledge, purpose, respect, wisdom and to to a certain point intelligence, even get trained physically and mentally to be more valiant. You can pay the best expert in any of those areas to help you improve them.

Instead of being stuck in a !@#$ing cubicle from 9-5 and trading 5 for 2 like an idiot.

So yes money can in many ways make you better and happier if thats what you want.
 

kahem89

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I think you can be happy 90% of the time. However being super happy is not something that is gonna be normal.Supperhappy is when you get that rush of pure ecstasy, times would be when you win the lottery, sell your company, have a newborn child, released from prison, you get the deal :p

From my own experience i been happy with no money, but money problems like debt, not affording a trip with friends, wearing worn out clothes, "having to work" and so on is a constant source of stress and is dragging your physiologically down.

Money take away allot of the day to day stresses out, and buys you freedoms. Ultimately making you more happy.
 

puckman

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"having to work"
The millionaires I know work more and harder than anyone I know, than any one of their employees, than pretty much anyone. When you run a $50mm company, you work 24/7/365. No joke, no exaggeration.

Happiness to me = security. Sure, I would like to lounge around, workout and record music all day, but being able to afford proper health insurance, pay for legal issues, live in a safe home & neighborhood, buy your way out of any emergency(or lesson the blow of a random incident), drive good transportation, be able to help sick parents, be able to send your kids to good schools, be able to have good dental care for your entire family(I am british, this hits home) being able to just go on an average vacation without incurring debt. Just these basics are what inspire me to earn money, to smooth out the bumps
 

kahem89

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The millionaires I know work more and harder than anyone I know, than any one of their employees, than pretty much anyone. When you run a $50mm company, you work 24/7/365. No joke, no exaggeration.
It might be different for each person. But I personally enjoy working when im not forced too. I believe its called freedom. Most people will work more effective as millionaires( I think). But having to work with something that leads too no where and something that's pays close to nada, is what I realy ment by having to work.:smxF:
 

mmtprofile

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I don't agree that money buys you happiness. I believe money is just a tool. There are a lot of people who have money who are still miserable. I don't actually know any because the majority of people I know who have multi-millions have amazing character and are happy people in general.
 

Trevor Kuntz

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Lacking money and/or being massively in debt is slavery. An adequate amount of money provides security and freedom. An overabundance of money or an excessive love of money exacerbates one's character flaws.

That's what I think about money.
 

cliqflip

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Money doesn't buy happiness but, everyone wants to figure that out for themselves
 

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bell12

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hmm, i think in a way it does though. I used to work construction and i hated it for 2 years. Tired, not alot of money saved.. and just same old routine every day and only looking forward to the weekends...but dreading monday. I finally said this is not my life and i ended that scenario. I havent worked since then and that was 4 years ago and things have turned out well for now...and the plans i have now shall hopefully take me to that millionaire status by next year...but anyhow i do have enough money now to do what i want pretty much, when i want within my means. I cant go out and buy a lambo, but i mean i have a nice place,family, bills are all taken care of and i can wake up when i want which is a bonus too ;) haha. i would say money buys FREEDOM, which then buys hapiness. But running/starting your own business can definitely take a stress toll on you, but its all on the person you are...for me i love money and thinking of ways to make it. If your working for someone though its very tough to get that freedom...
 

kirrubi

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cliqflip i whant to share with you something i readed and made sense to me "money works in the areas money are suposed to work and love works in the areas love is supose to work try it go to a bank and ask the teller to deposit love in your account" T. Harv Eker The millionaire mind.
its the reverse of what you said buying love or can you go to a restaurant and pay the bill with love?

thank you
 

Iqen

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Great discussion. This is a subject I've studied deeply.

The factors that cause happiness have been studied quite a bit. Money does indeed play a role up to around $70,000/year. After that the relationship sharply plateaus.

Research shows that we are consistently wrong about our forecasts on what will make us happy. Winning the lottery, moving to a place with great weather, getting a promotion etc are all examples of things that are not shown to raise long term happiness by any significant level.


Here's a great presentation on the subject by economist Dan Gilbert:

Dan Gilbert asks, Why are we happy? | Video on TED.com

Dan Gilbert on our mistaken expectations
 
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DeletedUser397

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I have a cousin who has said it best this way...

"Money may or may not buy happiness, and it's indeed possible to be rich and miserable, but I would rather be sad and miserable while rich than sad and miserable living broke."

And I agree with that. I also believe that happiness is a state of mind and can be achieved at any time, place, or in any situation.
 

Rickson9

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"An international team of researchers led by Jordi Quoidbach report in the August 2010 issue of Psychological Science that, although wealth may grant us opportunities to purchase many things, it simultaneously impairs our ability to enjoy those things."

Scientific American

Somewhat obvious, but a good quick read.
 

PatrickP

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Lack of money may cause unhappiness.

Money does not buy happiness all you have to do is look at Charlie Sheen and all the rest of his lot.


BUT money can RENT happiness by the hour and her name is Candy :)

I will say 100% for sure than if I happen to wake in the middle of the night I no longer think about if I have bills etc which I can not pay. So in that sense for me money certainly does bring peace of mind.

I was happy when I was poor with no a/c and no heat and I am still happy now that I have that plus more.
 

DavLung

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Great discussion. This is a subject I've studied deeply.

The factors that cause happiness have been studied quite a bit. Money does indeed play a role up to around $70,000/year. After that the relationship sharply plateaus.

Research shows that we are consistently wrong about our forecasts on what will make us happy. Winning the lottery, moving to a place with great weather, getting a promotion etc are all examples of things that are not shown to raise long term happiness by any significant level.


Here's a great presentation on the subject by economist Dan Gilbert:

Dan Gilbert asks, Why are we happy? | Video on TED.com

Dan Gilbert on our mistaken expectations
yeah, i agree, a friend of mine told me he saw an article that said similar. About $60,000/year, the relationship between money and happiness shallows out quickly. I guess after all the bills are taken care of and one can afford small things here and there, it doesn't matter. I think our happiest moments are when we are with the people we love and care about. There was a woman who sold her company and made millions of dollars but when looked through her phone to try to find someone to celebrate with, she couldn't.

All this said, although money can't make you happy, being poor doesn't make you happy either, so might as well be rich.

Many things can be bought with money but not friends and family, so don't forget about them on the way to the top.
 

ashj1893

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Whether or not money can buy happiness is 100% subjective...it's relative to the individual person. The End.
 

Lights

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Stupidity as it's highest form. No, money doesn't bring me happiness. It brings me financial security to do what I want, but what I want is free. It is all relative to each person, and I rather be a homeless version of "me" than you. I dreamt of going homeless in Detroit in fact, but I don't want that right now.

Happiness depends on what the person wants, and if you feel rich then that's all that matters. I want millions so I can retire, but it's not for the material goods I get. Material goods are nice, but one is only poor if they choose to be.

A yacht is only nice if you like water and sun, and to me; I HATE THE SUN. I hate the sun because it will make me old and ugly, and so I avoid it as much as I can. See, it's relative.
 

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