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GOLD! MLM Debate

ashj1893

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https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/mindset-motivation/38411-commandment-entry-clarification.html

I like this post. It clearly states the importance of the "commandment of entry" Which I am in agreement with. MLM is easy to enter but HARD to work out. IMO MLM only violates the commandment of control. But In reality you are at the mercy of your government so control becomes and illusion.

I'm Willing to take the heat here Only because I see hypocracy. None different than Suze Orman. Which I know MJ hates. But I reallly think this is important and needs to be discussed.

Is Another's "experience" really beneficial? MJ says MLM's are bad but fractal thinking tells me he used them to get where he is whether consciously or unconsciously. MLMs and all the seminars and experience have certainly taught him something. You mean to say I am to follow MJ unquestioningly in a 300+ page book and get all the answers? the taxcode alone is over 80K pages! Plus I have a few dependents in the mix that foil the $300 a month apartment and ramen noodle plan.

Not saying what MJ has is bad. But is it right for everyone? We all have different experiences. We all have different reference that coallece into our thought patterns. IF I am one millimeter off my target that is 500 yards away I could miss the mark completely.

Thats the point i'm trying to get across. And BTW if you want my fiance to have a nice dress to wear for the next function I'd appreciate a click and registration below.
vvvvvvvvvv

So I get Hammered for questioning the great and omicient MJ? As much respect I have for you MJ Because I have learned a lot It's not a one size fits all. That's what I'm saying. I'm asking, "what did you do?" as opposed to "What should I ought to do?"

Is this a bad thing? Honestly I don't know because I haven't made my first million.

vvvvvvvvvvvv
No...everyone's simply telling you that by being involved in MLM as an employee (technically what you are), you playing Russian Roulette with your financial future...which in turn has HUGE consequences for your life in general....
 

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^eagle^

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I'm quite aware of the 1099 employee my Fiance is. But it's deprogramming her. And I'm enjoying it as well. Great people. And the rent a wheel comment was uncalled for. Everything I own except my mortgage is paid for cash. This is digging into my time so I'll not bother to post here again.

Edit: Sorry, Rent a wheel comment was on another thread but Im done posting in both. too much to do in my few precious seconds left on the planet.


Sounds like we are agreeing to disagree. No worries.
 

Jill

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There are no absolutes -- there are exceptions to everything. There are rich MLMers. There are rich people with jobs. There are rich lottery players. I like to think in terms of probabilities ... if a passionate Fastlaner might get rich at an odds rate of 1 in 50, a passionate MLMer might get rich in 1 in 1,000. Both events occur.
What do you think are the odds of getting into Internet Marketing and turning it into a multi-million $ business like you did? Not asking as a hypothetical, but reality. How many folks do you think get excited about it, buy an eBook, go to a seminar, and try to build a few sites, then quit? What do you think that % is? Just curious.
 

Kak

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You can not calculate the odds at all. It depends on so many things. It is definately historically accurate that the richest people all own their own or started their own businesses. I know lots of multi-millionaire entrepreneurs, know a handful of salespeople (job) worth over a million but barely over. Same with ladder climbers just a handful who invested well. And mlm, not a single one....

How do ya like those odds?

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GTC1187

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Anyone who would argue with "MJ" himself on his own forum just deserves to be branded with the word "Dolt" on his forehead...
 

Kak

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I firmly believe that it is easier to make millions in a job than in mlm. Unless of course you start the mlm. You people arguing are so fricking stupid. Good luck selling $70 environmently friendly soap from amway lmao. Ill continue buying mine from HEB for $3....

Entrepreneur > sales > corporate ladder > dead end job > mlm
 

Jill

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Stupid? Dolt?

I firmly believe that it is easier to make millions in a job than in mlm. Unless of course you start the mlm.
I agree with you. It took me 8 years to hit the million dollar mark in MLM, but only 6 in a job, due largely to the skills I learned in the MLM.

You people arguing are so fricking stupid. Good luck selling $70 environmently friendly soap from amway lmao. Ill continue buying mine from HEB for $3....
Wow. There's that vitriol again. How many were there at which you failed before developing this level of anger? Stupid? Really? $70? Again, the hyperbole doesn't bolster your argument. It just makes you sound hysterical.

For the record, I am not interested in, nor do ever intend to participate in another MLM business. At the same time, I must say to all the critics here, that a man with an experience is seldom at the mercy of a man with a theory.

And to the poster who stated so emphatically that it was stupid to argue with MJ clearly doesn't know MJ. While I don't know him well, and I don't purport to speak for him, I think it's safe to say that he's not like that. From my 4 years of experience on this great forum, he has always welcomed healthy, respectful debate.
 

Kak

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I agree with you. It took me 8 years to hit the million dollar mark in MLM, but only 6 in a job, due largely to the skills I learned in the MLM.

Wow. There's that vitriol again. How many were there at which you failed before developing this level of anger? Stupid? Really? $70? Again, the hyperbole doesn't bolster your argument. It just makes you sound hysterical.

For the record, I am not interested in, nor do ever intend to participate in another MLM business. At the same time, I must say to all the critics here, that a man with an experience is seldom at the mercy of a man with a theory.

And to the poster who stated so emphatically that it was stupid to argue with MJ clearly doesn't know MJ. While I don't know him well, and I don't purport to speak for him, I think it's safe to say that he's not like that. From my 4 years of experience on this great forum, he has always welcomed healthy, respectful debate.
Jill do you think you would have had better expirence if you would have socked 8 years in an actual business that yoy had to actually run?

You may not be working right now if you had chosen an actual business.

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Jill

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It's hard to say, Kak. How many years would've been wasted trying to find the right business? What other kind of business could be started by a 22 yr old with no capital, no experience, and even less credibility? And don't say IM or eBay. LOL! This was 1986. I'm not saying that there were no other options. But at the time, it was a good opportunity for a young, entrepreneurial recent college graduate to get into business with a lot of other older, more experienced college graduates who served as coaches and mentors for years to come.

I was exposed, at that tender young age, to dozens of executives, millionaires, politicians, entertainers, motivational speakers, etc. I spoke onstage in front of crowds numbering in the thousands on a regular basis. I can't think of any other "job" or business that I could've done that would've given me that experience. I learned to interact comfortably with everyone from ditch diggers to CEOs, which I believe (as I stated in a previous post) gave me the soft skills that enabled me to take a $15/hr job (on a bet) and turn it into a $200k+ job within 18 mos. Because, believe me when I tell you, I'm nothing special. I'm not the most highly skilled consultant out there. But I learned back then that people do business with those they know, like and trust. That lesson has served me well.

Again, I'm not pimping MLM here. I've done it. It served a purpose at a particular time in my life. and I never plan to do it again. I just hate to see everyone pile on to a guy who is just TRYING to step up and do something to help his fiancé, or himself make a little extra cash as a means to and end. It CAN work for such a purpose.
 

Kak

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Likewise ive done it too. Sorry if ive came across angry or something, but you have literally lots of people here telling eagle not to waste his time but he will not listen.

I did the supplement thing, i did the comission junction thing and i also did the adsense stuff. Every bit of it added up to maybe a 9-10 thousand dollar net. I also owned lawn services, and auto detailing businesses that were a better bet than MLM and supported my lifestyle and kept me in shape.

I am 22 like you were when you started. I currently own a business that is netting me about 28k per year that i have maybe put 300 hours of actual hard work into as i have been in business school and when I try to do both I suck at both. I chose to make damn sure I graduate as this is my last semester even though my time is a sunk cost (wont be using the degree to look for a job) Needless to say, i am exited to see what happens when I sock 80 hours a week into the thing after I graduate. I turned down a conflict of interest position paying 6 figures to continue my work in my business. I am very confident that I have found the right business.

Now what you were saying about how long would it take to find the right business I believe it is more about your will power and drive to make it work than it is about what you pick. Sure some ideas just suck but i think you could sell enough ice cubes to make a million dollars if you worked hard eniugh at it. Failing is a learning expirence, I would take a failed business every year for 10 years over 10 years of mlm in a heartbeat.

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MJ DeMarco

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Once again Fractal thinking.
Seriously, all of your arguments (now and in the past) are always based on a straw-man logical fallacy.

Wikepedia said:
A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[1][2]
You create arguments where none exist so you can purposely strike them down and claim "hypocrisy" or a valid point.

On my article regarding earning income on a lump sum, you wrote:

This is great MJ if you have a large lump sum of cash. But after 20 years of trying to make a lump some I haven't been able to make those types of investments. Not to down grade you but coming up with the cash is not as easy as you make it out to be.
Really? Where did I say it was easy. This is another one of your straw-mans that you can effectively argue. Time after time I make mention (here and in my book) that the Fastlane isn't easy. But of course, you can't attack that -- so lets say "MJ says its easy!" Your interpretation, despite contrary evidence in print, is problematic.

Experience may have taught you that you only eanred $3.08 per hour but what networking did you get?
Absolutely nothing other than these aren't the type of people I want to associate with, unless they understand 100%, that I'm not interested in their overpriced products, or their opportunity. I'm an entrepreneur, not a commissioned sales rep. I have NOT ONE relationship with anyone who I knew back in my "MLM" days. The networking value was worth ZERO. I suspect those same people are still walking the same MLM walk ... peddling some other company's product and claiming to "be their own boss."


I just don't have the education.
Funny, and here we are trying to educate you ... but of course, your way has been working all these years so why change now?

But In reality you are at the mercy of your government so control becomes and illusion.
I'm also at the mercy of the heart in my chest and the air that I breathe. With this type of thinking, I really should build a bunker in the back of my house.

MJ says MLM's are bad
Really? Here is another straw-man that you manufacture so you can refute an argument when none exists. Show me where I said "MLM is bad!" My book even says MLM has networking and training value. Of course, you can't debate that so lets create an argument where none exists.

MLMs and all the seminars and experience have certainly taught him something.
Yea, it helped me crystallize the real concept of entrepreneurship. It also taught me that most people are gullible and looking for "events" over "process".

You mean to say I am to follow MJ unquestioningly in a 300+ page book and get all the answers?
Not at all; another straw man.

Plus I have a few dependents in the mix that foil the $300 a month apartment and ramen noodle plan.
This isn't my fault. You made the choices that would impact your life for a lifetime, not me.

But is it right for everyone?
Another straw-man. I never said there is only one way. Life's answers are NEVER one-size-fits all. Jill's explanation is a great example on how MLM had value to her life. MLM had value in my life because it showed me EXACTLY where I didn't want to be.

So I get Hammered for questioning the great and omicient MJ?
You're getting hammered because you don't like seeing what you're reading. You seek education and when you get it, you throw it back. I guess the advice of several millionaires isn't credible enough. I get it. Your response to not liking what you hear is to create faux-arguments that you can attack and refute.

What do you think are the odds of getting into Internet Marketing and turning it into a multi-million $ business like you did? Not asking as a hypothetical, but reality.
Internet marketing? I don't recommend internet marketing as a business. I didn't do "internet marketing" - I built a business based on a value exchange. If someone does the same, and has all the variables that fall into the "hot zone" I'd put the odds very high. 10, 20, or even 30%!

The problem is, most people fail to possess all the needed variables. Sure, they may start a business with CENTS but they fail to commit. They make other bad choices that derail the odds. They buy expensive cars that forces them to get a job. They do shit that cause them to fall outsize of the hot zone. You see, most people don't have the commitment, nor drive to make the hard choices, and the right ones. CENTS was what I felt gave someone the better odds, independent of the other life's choices.

Anyone who would argue with "MJ" himself on his own forum just deserves to be branded with the word "Dolt" on his forehead...
I always welcome debate and discussion... the problem is, the arguments here are faux arguments manufactured for the sake of refutation. As I wrote in my book, I believe MLM has value in a Fastlane process but ultimately, if you seek a Fastlane, you don't want to be joining one, you want to be owning one.

Cheers,
MJ
 
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^eagle^

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Well I first said I wasn't going to go back to this thread. But SinceMJ responded and this is between he and I will make a few points.

I never said this was fastlane, Nor did I even say it was my business. It's my fiance's. That part seems to get lost in the wash. Talk about your straw man arguments. The whole debate is based on one from you. I'm supportive because I intend to have a product to fit in with those big fat bonus checks those guys make. And when it's finished some of you may also. Once my Live four figure account doubles to five figures I might start turning a few heads. Cant sell an $90 account turned Into $150 in 7 months with little effort and no effort on the investors part.

Now if you want to purchase from me great. If you want to join the MLM because you think you may be good at it. Fine. If you want no part of it AWESOME! If you don't want to be a friend because I am in one. Cool! Well really... I'm hurt because off line in the real world most people like me. Not sure what it is about the online world. But I shrug it off as I know it's probably the body language and the fact I'm usually smiling and people sometimes don't get that through the internet.

I'm not asking for any sympathy. I accept my choices and I know because of those choices it's going to be more difficult. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Being a father is very important to me. Sometimes more so than making a buck.

I personally am learning networking while doing this. It's been an interesting experience to get out of my little nerd shell and go out and meet new people. Looking forward to doing it some more. Quite the opposite of hunkering down in a bunker.

My fastlane Plan was bombed down by the Frank-Dodd Bill. Nothing I can do but completetly start back up form scratch. It still works in Russia but I might have a hard time convincing people to send their money to Russia, Which shows me that control is the least important of the commandments.

In the shark tank episode above They stated they have no product. Thats was the problem.

I really do have 5 cents a gallon glass cleaner and 50 cents a gallon shelf and counter cleaner. Also got really good hosipital grade disinfectant, Coffee service, And The best LAundry detergent on the planet. wash 100 lbs of clothes for Under a dollar. Overpriced? I think not!


I think it's time to agree to disagree.

PS: I had a couple Beers in me the other night as well which may have contributed to some of my Grandiosity. It was meant as tongue and cheek humor. Probably didnt translate well in the written word.
 

Likwid24

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Not sure what it is about the online world. But I shrug it off as I know it's probably the body language and the fact I'm usually smiling and people sometimes don't get that through the internet.
Finally! Something that makes me agree with you! LOL

It is very true though. Just like text messaging. So many things get taken out of context. I guess that's one of the negatives of forums or texting.
 

PatrickP

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Name the 5 biggest complaints about MLM?
 

The-J

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I literally just had this conversation with my friend. He sees it as a pyramid scam where people go, waste their money on products they'll never sell, and repeat the process. I agree with him.

I've never done MLM, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
 

^eagle^

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The part that I don't get is that even You ,MJ, says that MLMs can offer business education, Sales education and motivation education at a fraction of the cost you could find it elsewhere. Yet When I bring to everyone's attention and proclaim I am in one FOR PRECISELY those reasons as well as a networking education opportunity, I am Labeled a lazy do nothing, Wantrepeur. Do you see the irony? All though it may not be as hypocritical as a Suze Orman or Robert Kyosaki, I still see hypocricy or at the very least Irony. That is what I'm debating. Not that MLM is fast lane. It's not. But I think I wasted enough time here.
 

JEdwards

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But I think I wasted enough time here.
You said that before. So why did you post again?


I am in one FOR PRECISELY those reasons as well as a networking education opportunity,
Did you say you were in one? I thought you said your wife was in one, you trade the forex and are opening a b&M store and can out work anyone on the planet?


I think you are taking what people are saying wrong.. But you will soon learn.. Again take 6 months, come back prove us all wrong.
 

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^eagle^

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Well played Jack. I support my fiance but i also sell and recruit as that is part of the learning process. I bought into it for her so that she may learn as well. and I teach her by example. But You are correct in that I am in one as opposed to My fiance being in one. My error. Touche'!

Edit: Markets closed, Buyer is not scheduled to meet til monday so Got some free time. But now my brother's coming over to talk about my roof. So Gotta go!.
 

DeletedUser394

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This thread used to be terrible, but now I can't stop coming back for the next installment!
 

kwerner

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This thread used to be terrible, but now I can't stop coming back for the next installment!
Yep, this is how this thread went:

[video=youtube;mvqdXVn421A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqdXVn421A[/video]
 

Erica DSnap13

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Hello everyone.

My mentor mentioned to me that the company we are in is not a MLM and has no pyramid scheme but we get paid as a team bonus and so on. If I asked someone to look at the legit company that pays people to socialize, Could you tell me if it is actually a MLM or not? It is hard to tell because we don't sell anything except ask people to join as members and get the benefits of being a member - also get paid to be a member if you get others to join as members using your membership name.

I also joined a MLM that allows parents to teach children OR people who are not sure about MLM businesss but have no loss in money if they spent $1.75 to enroll (No hidden costs, etc) so they can learn the ways of the MLM business.

I want to improve how to represent the company without the MLM itself being mentioned. I am here to learn and improve. :)
 

Ninjakid

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MLM is simply a pyramid scheme that barely qualifies as legal.
Their whole business model is based on what you can convince and promise others, not actually a reliable transaction of services.
My incredibly biased opinion rejects anything similar to an MLM
 
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GuestUser113

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Hello everyone.

My mentor mentioned to me that the company we are in is not a MLM and has no pyramid scheme but we get paid as a team bonus and so on. If I asked someone to look at the legit company that pays people to socialize, Could you tell me if it is actually a MLM or not? It is hard to tell because we don't sell anything except ask people to join as members and get the benefits of being a member - also get paid to be a member if you get others to join as members using your membership name.

I also joined a MLM that allows parents to teach children OR people who are not sure about MLM businesss but have no loss in money if they spent $1.75 to enroll (No hidden costs, etc) so they can learn the ways of the MLM business.

I want to improve how to represent the company without the MLM itself being mentioned. I am here to learn and improve. :)
 

MJ DeMarco

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I want to improve how to represent the company without the MLM itself being mentioned.
Hmm, you don't find that odd that you need to hide something? If you need to hide something in your business dealings, you should NOT be in that business.

I am here to learn and improve.
Sorry but you're at the wrong forum when it comes to MLM.

Our universal advice will be to create your own dream instead of hitching a ride on someone else's.
 

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