Military Life Lessons

[DeletedUser86]

This thread is for vets to share life lessons from the military.

Basic Training

I am convinced that the purpose of basic training is to teach you how to put up with bullshit.

Perfectly folded bed (tighter than your girlfriend who's banging Jodi right now), perfectly folded clothes (we used tweezers to get the seems perfect), polished boots with no scuffs, toothpaste must never touch the cap, the NCO who squeezes the toothpaste prior to removing the cap for inspection in order to fail you. Constant mundane inspections and you will never escape without a discrepancy no matter how hard you try. Basic also teaches you how to deal with people getting in your face. I had this one instructor, female about 5' tall get in my face and say 'I eat little pieces of shit like you for breakfast.' How original of her, I stood there with a blank expression even though I could have open-hand slapped her half way across the room, and taken her hat

Below the Radar

One strategy to successfully complete basic training is what I call "Below the Radar." You may have heard the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease," or "shut up and color." Meet standards, don't ask too many questions, don't cause problems and skate by. 50% is showing up on time, and 50% is enduring. Show value and you will gain leadership positions. By being good at your job you will have more responsibility but not necessarily more pay, and will have to answer for other people's F*ck-ups

Hurry Up and Wait

Rush and rush, now you have to wait. Stand around, smoke and joke. Don't try and be proactive, we are waiting on bureaucracy or the bus to get here.

 

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[GMSI7D]

This thread is for vets to share life lessons from the military.

Basic Training

I am convinced that the purpose of basic training is to teach you how to put up with bullshit.

Perfectly folded bed (tighter than your girlfriend who's banging Jodi right now), perfectly folded clothes (we used tweezers to get the seems perfect), polished boots with no scuffs, toothpaste must never touch the cap, the NCO who squeezes the toothpaste prior to removing the cap for inspection in order to fail you. Constant mundane inspections and you will never escape without a discrepancy no matter how hard you try. Basic also teaches you how to deal with people getting in your face. I had this one instructor, female about 5' tall get in my face and say 'I eat little pieces of shit like you for breakfast.' How original of her, I stood there with a blank expression even though I could have open-hand slapped her half way across the room, and taken her hat

Below the Radar

One strategy to successfully complete basic training is what I call "Below the Radar." You may have heard the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease," or "shut up and color." Meet standards, don't ask too many questions, don't cause problems and skate by. 50% is showing up on time, and 50% is enduring. Show value and you will gain leadership positions. By being good at your job you will have more responsibility but not necessarily more pay, and will have to answer for other people's F*ck-ups

Hurry Up and Wait

Rush and rush, now you have to wait. Stand around, smoke and joke. Don't try and be proactive, we are waiting on bureaucracy or the bus to get here.

i have been in the french mandatory military service .

the only valuable lesson i see in that whole absurd experience :

learning not to care about shit



the whole experience was so absurb that it taught me only one thing : learning not to care about stupid shit that life throws at us


this is one of the most valuable and free lesson i have received in my life

i didin't have to pay for this lesson.

the country said :

" look, we have given you this unbelievable lesson for free, you don't have to pay us anything for that ".

" make sure to use this lesson in your life "

 

[jon.a]

My guess is that you didn't excel.
Back in the olden days, the Navy's standard for success was sustained superior performance.
Some of us embraced that and excelled.

 

[Dylan_91]

It definitely allows most to look at life with another perspective, I think it made me cherish nothingness more. The ability to survive with very little, the ability to embrace the suck, the ability to take the green weenie while you just wasted 15 minutes to move your bag 6 steps forward only to sit it right back down for another 15 lol...

These are personal beliefs but I find the military to be a beautiful disaster... It's beautiful because if you're lucky enough to have a good career and do well, it can really set you up for success. It has very strong self-building opportunity and the camaraderie you can find at some units truly feels like family.

I think there are moments when people have limits and sometimes those limits can be tested or pushed in many situations, combat, loss of friends, very high stress situations, which for most happens at some point (i.e. deployments, high intensity training). These can have very lasting effects, and it's hard to deny when you see SO MANY friends who have either erased themselves or are nose deep in the drugs. The appeal for it is so much easier when your soul has given up. I hope that no one ever gives up anymore. I think most vets have a higher stress tolerance than most in most situations, unfortunately not their own personal battles sometimes.



I'm going off on a tangent! I think that the biggest takeaway is the realize that in the military we never accepted failure. You could be given a pile of shit and told to turn it into gold and god dammit you better turn it into gold.
That ability to just go and do it always surprised me how we accomplished crazy shit with little to nothing but perseverance.

Jon.a I think that the drive for superior performance is there still. I was around a bunch of Navy guys on 2 deployments, some really had their shit together and the standards were still up there.

 

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[jon.a]

...if you're lucky enough to have a good career and do well, it can really set you up for success...

LUCKY?!?!

I can speak to both sides of the dirt bag vs. rock star as I was both.

In my famous post in my signature, I mentioned having taken an 18 month break between my first and second enlistment. I needed that break because my first enlistment had been terrible. I was regularly in trouble and was nearly kicked out. In the last year I had a couple of senior members take a positive interest in me and help me to finish well enough to be eligible for re-enlistment.

The late 70's proved to be a tough time for a high school dropout with a wife and kid. I looked at my options and for me a Naval career was one of the better ones. I knew that I could retire at either Senior Chief (hard but doable) or Lieutenant Commander (a stretch).

So, I decided to play the game, as a game.

In the Navy, it was easy. They told me exactly what they wanted me to do and I did it plus just a little bit more. It was that little bit more that made all the difference. The competition was no competition. While most were complaining I just did my job well. Plus a little bit more.

I educated myself. I learned new jobs. I made myself valuable.

I got shit done. I took no shit. I gave no shit. I got to the point where I didn't give a shit. In a good way.

I reached one of my goals. Lieutenant Commander was out because I was too rough around the edges for the wardroom. When I made Senior I didn't care any more. At that point, within reason I could do anything that I wanted.

The Navy was good for me. I was good for the Navy. The military would be a fair choice for some. A military career is a good choice only for a few.

 

[Charnell]

What's the point of this thread? We're on an entrepreneur forum, and your third sentence is about Jodi. A lot of members won't understand that reference, and even though I do, you still come off as a tryhard. "Oh, I'd smack that DI/DS across the room if I wanted to." Neat.

You went on 2+ deployments but still come off like you got out of boot camp yesterday.

 

[DeletedUser86]

Charnell said: "What's the point of this thread? We're on an entrepreneur forum, and your third sentence is about Jodi. A lot of members won't understand that reference, and even though I do, you still come off as a tryhard. "Oh, I'd smack that DI/DS across the room if I wanted to." Neat.

You went on 2+ deployments but still come off like you got out of boot camp yesterday."

I start with boot camp as that is the first logical step. This forum is more than entrepreneurism, it is also about self-improvement, hence the section I posted in. Many have never served and would like to know certain insights. I don't give a F*ck about YOU, if you don't like this post keep scrolling. And no, I did not just come from basic training a$$-wipe. Whatever, find something better to spend your time on or go drink bleach IDGAF. I will keep posting my shit; it's more for me than for anyone else. On to what other's have discussed..

Don't give a F*ck, but do your best

"Excellence in all you do" is one of three core values in the Air Force. You have people who join for benefits/steady pay and you have people who join to serve their country. The "F*ck you pay me" types are abundant. The first ranks before non-commissioned officer are a matter of time, provided that you have not f*cked up. Then comes testing to make the rank of E5 (first NCO rank).. testing involves all of your performance reports, then a job skills test and a "profession of arms" test. Awards and decorations also come into play, but at that rank you are mostly among equals. Promotion rates vary by job and by year, but usually they are around 40%. That means in order to get promoted you must be better than half your peers. Take a look around, can you say that you are better than half of your peers? How many take the time to study vs partying or playing video games on time off?

Take the time to learn your craft
You want to be the guy that knows his shit, that means you have value. Learning usually requires one to sit down in a quiet space with training materials, and combine it with his own experience. Sometimes one does not have experience so he must push through and stay focused. If you can answer a question better than the next guy you may be looking at a promotion, probably in leadership but eventually in rank. Ask yourself this question: is it easier for my job to replace me or for me to replace this job. If the latter, then you are on the right track. You will get the cool jobs, and you will be able to properly mentor others coming through the ranks

Having said that..

Don't give a F*ck

Things don't always go as planned. Why worry? As Jesus once said, "Will worrying add a moment to your life?" Roll with the punches, adapt and overcome with what you got. You will (probably) not die in the immediate term, so why worry? In my personal opinion: worry is an useless emotion. There are times when you must do what you must do, and there are times when the ball is out of your hands. We are on this rock moving forward regardless of what you think or feel

 

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[jon.a]

I don't understand the point either.
Some of us served. Some didn't.
Some that served did well. Some didn't.

None of which matters.
I've privately engaged with many forum members. Few mention my service. Some say thanks.
It has little to do with the exchange of ideas.
I'm privileged to share ideas with forum leaders because I'm jon.a not ATCS Anderson, USN, Retired.

 

[DeletedUser86]

Charnell, with his lack of input and haterism did remind me of something..

The Last Duty Station

People tend to talk about where they just came from. In technical school, they talk of basic training. At their first duty station, they tend to talk about technical school. At their next station, they talk about their previous station. Usually they talk with nostalgia, even though they probably were complaining about their environment while there. I've heard people bitch while at a location, then they move and wish they could go back.

It's like the zen story of the traveler asking a zen master if he will like a city. The zen master replies "only if you liked your last city"

 

[DeletedUser86]

The point? Does there have to be? If it's a good read then it's a good read, if not then move on. It's just things I ponder that I want to write down, that is all. Maybe someone gets value from one of the posts, if one person gets value then there is a point. If it belongs in a different section then let me know, if I should quit posting non-business on the TFM forums then let me know also

Thank You For Your Service

During Vietnam, vets were spit on. Today, the populace is brainwashed into thanking random people in uniform for their service. Doesn't matter that the service members may still be in training and haven't actually done anything yet. The motivations of the service members may range from actually wanted to serve their country to wanting free college. When prompted the "thank you for your service" I simply say "you don't have to thank me." I could have killed children for all they know. I agree with Jon on this one, it was a fair-exchange and I'd rather be a first name than a last name. "They gave you a number and took away your name"

 

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[jon.a]

The civilians are too polite to call you out on this. I'm not.

This thread is a waste of bandwidth unless you pivot to something relating to business asap.

Otherwise, since we can't have an ignore thread feature (it doesn't exist) I vote landfill.

 

[SteveO]

and your third sentence is about Jodi.

Yes. Jodi was screwing my girlfriend also. One of the drill instructors intercepted pics from a modeling session. They surrounded me every night screaming in my ear for her address and phone number. This went on for five or six days. Not sure what lesson was learned from that.

 

[DeletedUser86]

OK Jon I respect your input and will cease all posting. Much more to say but will save you a few kilobytes of bandwidth

 

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[SteveO]

A little harsh guys. You don't have to read every thread. This is a forum though and people talk about things that mean something to them.

 

[jsk29]

I wonder if vets who pursue entrepreneurship have an easier or harder time than civilians?

From what I hear, the military is a very structured environment. Entrepreneurship, not so much.

Seems it would be difficult to adjust to such an unpredictable lifestyle after years of following orders and strict protocol.

On the other hand, there are vets who've gained valuable leadership skills and developed hardcore work ethic which is extremely valuable in business.

Thoughts?

 

[Dylan_91]

I wonder if vets who pursue entrepreneurship have an easier or harder time than civilians?

From what I hear, the military is a very structured environment. Entrepreneurship, not so much.

Seems it would be difficult to adjust to such an unpredictable lifestyle after years of following orders and strict protocol.

On the other hand, there are vets who've gained valuable leadership skills and developed hardcore work ethic which is extremely valuable in business.

Thoughts?

Structured in command but decentralized in control so many have had leadership experience even at a lower rank/grade (younger guys) but even then that really depends.
Just like with a business, in war or training there is uncertainty and adaptability is necessary.
Plus a lot of veterans are used to high-stress environments, learning to keep calm and focused.

 

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[jon.a]

I wonder if vets who pursue entrepreneurship have an easier or harder time than civilians?

From what I hear, the military is a very structured environment. Entrepreneurship, not so much.

Seems it would be difficult to adjust to such an unpredictable lifestyle after years of following orders and strict protocol.

On the other hand, there are vets who've gained valuable leadership skills and developed hardcore work ethic which is extremely valuable in business.

Thoughts?

At my level the environment was predictably unpredictable. In other words what F*ck up will I have to unfuck up today. Most generally stupid mistakes.

So, I learned to...
think fast to assess the situation
review my resources
develop an action plan
put the plan into action
review the results
plan for correcting the condition that failed in the first place
etc.

Sounds like normal business shit to me.

 

[SteveO]

Sounds like normal business shit to me.

Ha!

 

[DeletedUser86]

I read another thread the other day that started off with hating (which may have been deserved) but actually turned into an 8-page thread with good info exchanged. This is not show-boating by me; we can turn this thread from "Are vets good leaders" to vets giving us leadership advice. Anyone can post here, doesn't have to be vets. And no, I'm not a woman-beater I was just trying to express the ridiculousness of a situation I couldn't walk away from. I didn't even start with the low-hanging fruit, I started with the fruit that had already fallen off the tree and been stomped on. pardon

Not All Vets Are Equal

To answer that ksc23's question would be hard. Some are infantry, some are pilots, and some are finance and everything in between. Some work office hours and get holidays off. There are the F*ck-ups and the slackers. One can just stay out of trouble and skate by, 'meet' standards, and 'retire' at 20 years with a pension and health insurance. It's the depressing mindset of the grind, but works for some. Then there is the type that takes charge of their career, taking the time to study instead of partying in order to make rank. Some even go from enlisted to officer.

Not all are thinking about business for some the military was it. You have a steady paycheck, structure in your life, someone to tell you what to do and where to go and for how long. You do have a little control over where they send you to an extent. They say vets that retire tend to die younger than their peers, possibly due to the lack of structure (and no stress)

I've known plenty that did 20 and started a small business. One guy does car headlight retrofits locally. Got a nice big (work) truck that's probably a write-off, 'company cell,' etc. There was the story of the SEAL who started a business because he wanted a way to work out when he wasn't home so he created some resistance cables. Marcus Latrell probably made a deserved chunk of change from "Lone Survivor." "Jarhead" probably made some money too even though it was the most disappointing 'war' book I've ever read. It was real though, I will give it that

You won't find better leadership training as far as I'm aware. They actually teach you about group dynamics in leadership school. They don't teach you HOW to be a leader. You will see good examples of a leader, and bad examples. A leader-to-be will take the good traits and ditch the bad. The other part of leadership is knowing how to deal with people. The dynamic is different because you have people constantly changing and you meet so many different personalities. It was the best of times and it was the worst of times. On the flip side the structure and the rank-and-file of leadership means that you are a mid-level leader. You are used to getting some sort of guidance and overall direction-the "script" if you will.

Oh and that homeless guy wearing camo is probably not a vet, he just bought that shit at a yard sale. That's homeless marketing for ya

 

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[SteveO]

@mrgray03
I thought you were done with this thread so started another to replace it.

 

[SteveO]

17 was a bit young to join the Marines. After getting booted from a couple of schools, my dad was very willing to sign for me to go in. It was difficult to conform in school. He must have thought that the Marines would whip me into shape.

One of the aspects that was troubling was the techniques they would use. Punching, belittling, spitting in our faces, locking us in closets with people stacked on each other, biting, and exercising us into sweaty puddles of goo.

They seemed to get extra pleasure out of turning us against each other. Afterward, we would be punished for our lack of teamwork.

After a couple of months of pleasantries, we finally got into the war games. Fun, right? Trouncing through the mountains at night in the rain with little protection was a blast! By this time I was beat into submission and very intimidated by those in power.

On to the real part of the story:

Our platoon commander was a loon. Bat-shit crazy. We were assigned to launch a ground assault on another platoon. They had taken up positions in foxholes on the side of a hill. Conventional practice would be to come in from different types of formations to gather advantage over the hill. The attackers would rarely win. The defenders had the advantage. We would just expect a lesson about it afterwards.

Our commander took 6 (out of 80 per platoon) and told us to clear a path for the remainder to march through. This would involve physically clearing out the soldiers on the way up.

It was a dark night. We talked among the group and planned to at least get a couple of spots cleared before our cover was blown. We had to be quiet so as to not render ourselves dead or exposed.

We found the first station. One of the guys, a native American, launched himself into the hole in a very quiet leap and covered his mouth.

We continued up the hill with Geronimo, our new name for him, jumping into each hole and subduing them. They were each held captive in the hole until four were secured. The last two members walked up to the captain at the top of the hill and informed him the hill was captured. He proceeded over and grabbed their flag. This was shortly before the main group made a thrust though the passage in waves.

I was absolutely amazed by the stealth power of this 130 to 140 pound person to boldly dive in and subdue people with hardly a sound. He basically did all this with the rest of us supporting by holding the captives and following along.

None of this makes any real sense because the other foxholes should have seen/heard something. Rustling around, movement, etc but nobody let out any alerts.

I thought we would be captured or pronounced shot real early. Geronimo lead the way with no fear and full confidence that none of the rest of us had.

Clearly, you can all see the learnings from this. But, I came away with an exaggerated individual respect for this person. Never have I seen a feat like this.

What was there to fear in the first place? Nothing. I did not see that until it was over.

It only worked because everyone on both sides were too scared to blow cover or make a move. There was ONE lone person that had no intimidation or fear.

 

[Iwokeup]

17 was a bit young to join the Marines. After getting booted from a couple of schools, my dad was very willing to sign for me to go in. It was difficult to conform in school. He must have thought that the Marines would whip me into shape.

One of the aspects that was troubling was the techniques they would use. Punching, belittling, spitting in our faces, locking us in closets with people stacked on each other, biting, and exercising us into sweaty puddles of goo.

They seemed to get extra pleasure out of turning us against each other. Afterward, we would be punished for our lack of teamwork.

After a couple of months of pleasantries, we finally got into the war games. Fun, right? Trouncing through the mountains at night in the rain with little protection was a blast! By this time I was beat into submission and very intimidated by those in power.

On to the real part of the story:

Our platoon commander was a loon. Bat-shit crazy. We were assigned to launch a ground assault on another platoon. They had taken up positions in foxholes on the side of a hill. Conventional practice would be to come in from different types of formations to gather advantage over the hill. The attackers would rarely win. The defenders had the advantage. We would just expect a lesson about it afterwards.

Our commander took 6 (out of 80 per platoon) and told us to clear a path for the remainder to march through. This would involve physically clearing out the soldiers on the way up.

It was a dark night. We talked among the group and planned to at least get a couple of spots cleared before our cover was blown. We had to be quiet so as to not render ourselves dead or exposed.

We found the first station. One of the guys, a native American, launched himself into the hole in a very quiet leap and covered his mouth.

We continued up the hill with Geronimo, our new name for him, jumping into each hole and subduing them. They were each held captive in the hole until four were secured. The last two members walked up to the captain at the top of the hill and informed him the hill was captured. He proceeded over and grabbed their flag. This was shortly before the main group made a thrust though the passage in waves.

I was absolutely amazed by the stealth power of this 130 to 140 pound person to boldly dive in and subdue people with hardly a sound. He basically did all this with the rest of us supporting by holding the captives and following along.

None of this makes any real sense because the other foxholes should have seen/heard something. Rustling around, movement, etc but nobody let out any alerts.

I thought we would be captured or pronounced shot real early. Geronimo lead the way with no fear and full confidence that none of the rest of us had.

Clearly, you can all see the learnings from this. But, I came away with an exaggerated individual respect for this person. Never have I seen a feat like this.

What was there to fear in the first place? Nothing. I did not see that until it was over.

It only worked because everyone on both sides were too scared to blow cover or make a move. There was ONE lone person that had no intimidation or fear.

This sounds very similar to a conversation that I had recently...

 

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[ZF Lee]

17 was a bit young to join the Marines. After getting booted from a couple of schools, my dad was very willing to sign for me to go in. It was difficult to conform in school. He must have thought that the Marines would whip me into shape.

One of the aspects that was troubling was the techniques they would use. Punching, belittling, spitting in our faces, locking us in closets with people stacked on each other, biting, and exercising us into sweaty puddles of goo.

They seemed to get extra pleasure out of turning us against each other. Afterward, we would be punished for our lack of teamwork.

After a couple of months of pleasantries, we finally got into the war games. Fun, right? Trouncing through the mountains at night in the rain with little protection was a blast! By this time I was beat into submission and very intimidated by those in power.

On to the real part of the story:

Our platoon commander was a loon. Bat-shit crazy. We were assigned to launch a ground assault on another platoon. They had taken up positions in foxholes on the side of a hill. Conventional practice would be to come in from different types of formations to gather advantage over the hill. The attackers would rarely win. The defenders had the advantage. We would just expect a lesson about it afterwards.

Our commander took 6 (out of 80 per platoon) and told us to clear a path for the remainder to march through. This would involve physically clearing out the soldiers on the way up.

It was a dark night. We talked among the group and planned to at least get a couple of spots cleared before our cover was blown. We had to be quiet so as to not render ourselves dead or exposed.

We found the first station. One of the guys, a native American, launched himself into the hole in a very quiet leap and covered his mouth.

We continued up the hill with Geronimo, our new name for him, jumping into each hole and subduing them. They were each held captive in the hole until four were secured. The last two members walked up to the captain at the top of the hill and informed him the hill was captured. He proceeded over and grabbed their flag. This was shortly before the main group made a thrust though the passage in waves.

I was absolutely amazed by the stealth power of this 130 to 140 pound person to boldly dive in and subdue people with hardly a sound. He basically did all this with the rest of us supporting by holding the captives and following along.

None of this makes any real sense because the other foxholes should have seen/heard something. Rustling around, movement, etc but nobody let out any alerts.

I thought we would be captured or pronounced shot real early. Geronimo lead the way with no fear and full confidence that none of the rest of us had.

Clearly, you can all see the learnings from this. But, I came away with an exaggerated individual respect for this person. Never have I seen a feat like this.

What was there to fear in the first place? Nothing. I did not see that until it was over.

It only worked because everyone on both sides were too scared to blow cover or make a move. There was ONE lone person that had no intimidation or fear.

For some reasons this story sounds like the classical entrepreneural story...getting in and killing it because everyone is too afraid or too busy fighting....and they swoop in and take the spoils...I think that is how being the 'lone wolf' works best and succeeds in the first place in high performance circles.

Good story. Loved it. I think that military people make very good entrepreneurs, but for some reasons my country never has this kind of trend,unlike the USA...

BTW, do you still have contact with the Native American?

 

[SteveO]

BTW, do you still have contact with the Native American?

No. We were not allowed to talk to each other in boot camp. I spent 14 weeks with 79 other people in the same barracks and did not get to know any of them.

 

[DeletedUser86]

Been a busy week, grabbed a beer to catch up. I'm about half way through Unscripted and so far the biggest thing that stuck out to me was the push/pull of advertising. Same concept works for leadership.

The Push/Pull of Leadership

I often hear people say "I didn't join the military because I couldn't deal with someone yelling at me." This style of "wall-to-wall counseling" typically doesn't happen after the first year or two. The "one-way conversation" is the push style of leadership. Do what I say because I outrank you. The problem with rank is that often you find people in leadership positions simply because of tenure. On the civilian side you find leadership usually when someone knows their shit. The problem with the push style of leadership is that it usually fails on people who have options. In the military, one must fulfill a contract and could be legally charged for insubordination. In the civilian world a person of value could walk in two weeks or today. The 'pull' style keeps them around.

Would I follow you into battle?

Think about it for a moment.. what are the qualities of someone you would follow into battle? That you would trust your life or livelihood with?

I would want someone who looks the part, is articulate, knows something that I don't, takes charge of an uncertain situation, gives a 'commander's intent' or overall objective and at the same time gives me the tools and authority to carry out my part. The pull leadership style makes you want to do your part.

Door Kickers VS Those Who Decide Which Doors Get Kicked

One can go with lone wolf, but greater things are accomplished as a team. In a team it is important to understand that everyone brings something different to the table, and in small teams it is customary that each person doesn't know the same shit. Think about a stereo-typical action movie: you have explosives expert, sniper, jack-of-all-trades, close-combat expert, hot chick, and computer-hacker guy. Everybody plays a part, but nobody does the same shit.

It takes a leader to put all of those talents together, work towards a common goal, and make them feel appreciated.

In a slightly larger team it is ideal to have at least two people who can cover a primary function. One person may take a sick day or go to lunch and the other person is there to cover. If you call a business do you want to hear an answering machine?

 

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