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Massive Need But No Desire – True Sometimes!

MustImprove

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So, is losing a million dollars painful enough for you to take action?


Not for some people!


Earlier today on my problems/solutions thread, a pleasant and enthusiastic new member (@Richie_Sage ) asked me if it’s a good idea to think of 10 solutions every single day.


Well, Richie was heading along the right lines of course.

I wanted to write a decent answer for Richie, so I started to tell a personal story from my business life.

As I was writing I realised the story might just deserve a thread of its own.


Well, here we go…..





Hey @Richie_Sage ,



Thanks for the positive feedback, and yes, you are going along the right path with your thoughts.



I'll throw a twist onto your twist if I may. :)



You must focus on solutions to problems or concerns that people have (or believe they have) today.



You might see a problem, and even think of a most outstanding solution. However, unless a viable number of customers are trying to solve that particular problem then you will always be trying to open the biscuit barrel whilst wearing straightjacket.



Which leads to………



The Three Most Important Words When Evaluating An Idea



Validate, Validate, Validate



Ho ho ho…..I know.
clip_image001.png




….but truly madly deeply, that’s why @MJ DeMarco and so many of the wise guys and gals on TFF talk about validating the need first. Yup……we say it often, and we’ll say it again. Validation is vital!



It’s not impossible to elevate a customer’s awareness so that they suddenly realise they have a need (and therefore need your solution), but it’s a lot easier to sell a solution to someone searching for it themselves.



@Andy Black does this all the time. Andy has done some simply stupendous posts about validation from an Adwords perspective. Well worth a read in their own right.


Anyway, I can speak from experience here too, and you might be surprised how much self-inflicted pain a company needs to suffer before it will accept that a problem exists and that a solution is needed.



I’ll give you a real example of how some companies act, and it all comes down to who feels pain (or not) regardless of the issue at hand.



The Background


My company was running a project to deliver “Solution X” for a very large international company.…..a job that lasted several months.


The customer-chap was a pretty important manager, multi-million budget, smart, decent, sharp, critical, kind and fair).



He was fantastic to work with and always looked out for the whole company, not only his own part. Just the kind of guy you would want running your show.



The project was going great….ahead of schedule. Smiles and biscuits all round.




The Unbelievably Obvious Problem That Any Sane Individual Would Want To Solve….errrr right?


During the delivery of “Solution X”, our customer-chap noticed a problem in a different part if the organisation.



It was a well sized one…oh yes.



A million dollars……



…………per month!



........sized problem.



Now, it was a big company, but a million a month is still some serious juice to bleed.



It wasn’t his area, but customer-chap asked me and my right-hand to quickly review the situation and work out a solution………by the way, now I write this that’s another terrific example of how solving problems leads to new business, but let’s stick with the current play.



Within 1 or 2 days we could describe v0.1 of a solution that would cost roughly 250k and were invited to meeting with some fairly big wigs.


There was our (again, very good) customer, and 3 other senior guys from the most relevant departments.


The problem definitely fell within one of those 3 other departments, and it was definitely not within our customer’s portfolio.


Well, the meeting was insightful to say the least.




An Insightful Meeting With A Great Business Lesson



The 3 big-wigs soon agreed that a million a month was indeed unacceptable and warranted an urgent fix. Much nodding and gruff manly approvals.



But there was a twist in the tale……isn’t there always!



By a circumstantial accounting anomaly the million-per-month was not hitting their individual budgets. It was real money flowing out of the company, but no individual pain…….aha, and here is the relevant point.



Yes indeed, none of the 3 people needed a solution at that point in time.



So when the elephantine question was raised (i.e. who will find the relatively paltry 250k) there was much head shaking, and the guttural manly approvals gave way to rather less endearing sighs of difficulty.


No pain, no desire!


To a man they were sucking teeth and finding more excuses than a bad plumber.



It was like asking seven year olds to eat broccoli instead of ice cream for their dessert.



Considering the shareholder money at stake it was especially bizarre to witness this spectacle.



I was amazed that not one of them was “big enough” to play the hero. I mean, that’s surely an opportunity to plonk your pair of giant “problem solving” cojones on the board’s table come bonus time…..but no.



My customer really did a good job of explaining and logically outlining the case, but to no avail.




The Aftermath



The meeting ended with a decision that would make civil servants the world over rub their hands with glee and pride………to plan another meeting in 2 weeks. Well woopity doo……top work y'all!



Got that?....a decision to delay a further 2 weeks?



Since dear reader you are fastlane type, you will no doubt notice that the 2 week delay would likely cost more than at least one possible solution. True.



Do you think they would have become dynamic go-getting corporate superheroes sporting underpants over Armani suit trousers the next time? Hmmmmmm…… errrrr……..no, nor do I.




A day later my customer-chap called us in and said...



“Just fookin do it. I’ll pay, and I’ll explain my overspend come budget time”.



What a guy. What a guy. Clap clap.



So we did and he did.



The shareholders (and my company) were lucky to have customer-chap in that organisation. Without him I’m confident that the pain would have lasted a long time without anyone looking particularly hard for a solution.




The Lesson


For me at least, that was a fascinating lesson.


…a lesson about focus, and how you should sometimes recognise and bend with the political flow.



Effort to address even this massive pain point (at least with those individuals) would likely have resulted in no reward.



….but focusing on an alternative route via a different department, with the right person, who happened to feel the pain even though he formally didn’t need to bother worked!


Be flexible, and look for who is feeling the pain.



Do you know, it wasn’t even that complicated in the end, so it was quite a profitable piece of work for us.



…..and later on, when an organisational change came round with some layoffs looming, guess who was selected as “primus inter pares”…..yep good ol customer-chap. Well, whad’ya know, the good guy won in the end.




Time for a celebratory biscuit.



A Summary, and back to the twist on a twist……..



So there you go….a real world “millions of dollars” “no painy, no spendy” example just for you.



In short, yes get started thinking of solutions, but as soon as you can, start zeroing in on the problems that people/companies are complaining about today, and talk to the people who feel the pain.



Better to develop a solution for one of today’s validated problems than solving a hundred problems that might become complaints in the future.



A validated problem with a viable market is where you will find the biggest smiles and the tastiest biscuits. Yum yum.
clip_image001.png




Good luck!
 
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Andy Black

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Thanks @MustImprove.

Nice story.


...


In my mind, I have an (over-simplified or over-complicated?) hierarchy like this:


1) They NEED it, but don't know they need it yet.
You can't sell to these people yet. You're going to have to educate them first, and generate the demand.

2) They KNOW they need it, but don't want it yet.
You can't sell to these people either. They're educated enough to know they need it, but not motivated enough to do anything about it. (I know I need to do more exercises for my back, but I don't want to enough to do anything about it yet.)

3) They WANT it, but aren't looking for it yet.
(They may or may not NEED it - after all, who really "needs" that nicer car or bigger TV?) If you can get what they want in front of them, then there's a chance you can sell it to them.

4) They want it, and are actively LOOKING for it.
Ooo... now we're cooking. Sales happen when we get the right product in front of the right people at the right time. The right people are the people who are ready, willing, and able to buy it. The right time is when they've decided to buy it. This is simple demand fulfilment... just sit at the bottom of the hill and catch the people charging down to you with their credit card in hand.



There's a difference between demand generation, and demand fulfilment. One is easier than the other, and it makes sense to start with one before the other.

Here's a related video.
 
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Richie_Sage

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Hey Mustimprove!

That was nice of you! I actually didn't expect to receive any reply at all, but I did, so I'm taking notes as I read! Oh and I like stories with good endings, especially when I remember something funny as I read. The part where you used kids as an example made me remember something from the past, a little story of my own. :D

Several months ago I used to work as a waiter, just to see what the experience was like. I actually liked the job, except that I was not allowed to talk with the customers for too long and I like connecting. I had to talk quickly and to the point and It was kinda sad, because it made me feel like a robot ( maybe because of my kind of introvertic nature ).

Anyway, once a nice couple came over and ordered a delicious Ice-cream with Strawberry flavor, unfortunately for them... I didn't bring that for them. I gave them something else, yet Ice cream but with another flavor. My mistake. When they saw that desert they were soo sad, like those little dogs who show their sad eyes whenever they want to get their own way. :D I mustered my courage and tried to use all my charm and persuasion, but to no avail. Proves right, that if there's no pain - there's no desire! I believe that at that moment they got another pain, like an unsatisfied eagerness to tease me because of my mistake, haha, but I was nice, so they took that Ice cream anyways.
 

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this is hard to do with game apps. if the game is really simple like mines are, i really do actually fear the idea being possible stolen lol
 
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wade1mil

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1) They NEED it, but don't know they need it yet.
2) They KNOW they need it, but don't want it yet.
3) They WANT it, but aren't looking for it yet.
I didn't read the OP because formatting and TLDR, but for the sake of discussion...
For some reason this made me think of automobiles and high-speed internet.
How great would it be if there was a way to get your product into their hands without them having to ask.
Back in the late 90's, what if your ISP took you from 56k to 1000MB for a month without even telling people?
How on Earth could you NOT pay for the 1000MB if you used the internet more than a little bit?
I guess this is the ultimate way to demonstrate that they do need/want it right now.
Would just require some investment by offering your product/service at a loss to begin with.
 

Andy Black

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How great would it be if there was a way to get your product into their hands without them having to ask.
...
I guess this is the ultimate way to demonstrate that they do need/want it right now.

Would just require some investment by offering your product/service at a loss to begin with.

There's that giving to recieve again!

Rather than me trying to sell my lead generation service to businesses, I could first generate and fire the leads at them. Then turn the cannon off and ask if they'd like it turned back on...

Provide the value up front.
 

MustImprove

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Rather than me trying to sell my lead generation service to businesses, I could first generate and fire the leads at them. Then turn the cannon off and ask if they'd like it turned back on...



I was thinking about @Andy Black 's line today. It's a good one.

Until a couple of years ago I would have expected that model to work in pretty much any business....maybe even charities too.

You are effectively giving them cash (if they know what to do with your leads).

I mean, who doesn't want more cash, right? Well, it don't always work like that........


You see, I did some lead-gen testing in the healthcare niche.

I spent a fair amount of effort developing, SEOing, and fine-tuning a website and funnel that successfully generated leads. Wowsers.......can't fail I was thinking!

In fact, it was better, since I generated bookings, real appointments, so the practitioners just had to accept the booking and BAM...cash walked in the door.


Once I had a good set of bookings coming in I started calling the niche practitioners. Full of the joys of spring I was.

Just like oracle Andy says, and like a good little Fastlane soldier I offered the practitioners the free bookings. Yep, hurling the moola away. Fill yer boots!....for free!

To my absolute astonishment (and this was my duff mistake I know), practitioner after practitioner turned the free cash down.

I tried different scripts, and another very trustworthy caller, but it just didn't work.

In the end we got a few to open up a bit.

It turns out that the niche was rather local, and a) they had plenty of customers, and b) felt that a customer would find them anyway, without the internet.

Again, a need but no desire. Interesting, thinks I at least.


....so a duff niche with my approach. Some of you would perhaps have made a much better job of it than I did, but I'm really pleased it worked out like that because I learnt a lot.



So what's the extra lesson / value here?

For me, it was that validation on both "sides" is important before investing too much time and effort.

Validate that the end customers want the service/product (the leads you generate) , AND validate that the organisations you will sell the leads to are prepared to pay for them.

I stupidly assumed that the practitioners would welcome the leads........but they didn't.

Don't assume a particular niche wants the wonga. Call them first.:)
 
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Andy Black

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I was thinking about @Andy Black 's line today. It's a good one.

Until a couple of years ago I would have expected that model to work in pretty much any business....maybe even charities too.

You are effectively giving them cash (if they know what to do with your leads).

I mean, who doesn't want more cash, right? Well, it don't always work like that........


You see, I did some lead-gen testing in the healthcare niche.

I spent a fair amount of effort developing, SEOing, and fine-tuning a website and funnel that successfully generated leads. Wowsers.......can't fail I was thinking!

In fact, it was better, since I generated bookings, real appointments, so the practitioners just had to accept the booking and BAM...cash walked in the door.


Once I had a good set of bookings coming in I started calling the niche practitioners. Full of the joys of spring I was.

Just like oracle Andy says, and like a good little Fastlane soldier I offered the practitioners the free bookings. Yep, hurling the moola away. Fill yer boots!....for free!

To my absolute astonishment (and this was my duff mistake I know), practitioner after practitioner turned the free cash down.

I tried different scripts, and another very trustworthy caller, but it just didn't work.

In the end we got a few to open up a bit.

It turns out that the niche was rather local, and a) they had plenty of customers, and b) felt that a customer would find them anyway, without the internet.

Again, a need but no desire. Interesting, thinks I at least.


....so a duff niche with my approach. Some of you would perhaps have made a much better job of it than I did, but I'm really pleased it worked out like that because I learnt a lot.



So what's the extra lesson / value here?

For me, it was that validation on both "sides" is important before investing too much time and effort.

Validate that the end customers want the service/product (the leads you generate) , AND validate that the organisations you will sell the leads to are prepared to pay for them.

I stupidly assumed that the practitioners would welcome the leads........but they didn't.

Don't assume a particular niche wants the wonga. Call them first.:)

Haha. You've been there too I see!

Yes, back in 2009, I created CorkWashingMachineRepairs.com, created an AdWords campaign, and then started cold calling plumbers out of the Yellow Pages to ask them if they wanted a free one month trial of leads. Every single one of them couldn't get off the phone fast enough. I realised they didn't understand wtf I was talking about.

I've also fired leads at businesses in a different vertical, and a lot of them don't want the leads either. This was great learnings in that particular vertical, because we got to find out what types of leads they didn't like, and what type of leads they desperately wanted more of.

As my business partner on that project said: "We're firing lots of peanuts at their door. We need bigger ammo (fewer leads, but with higher potential ticket value) to get that conversation with the business owner."

When you get it right though, it's like the tables are reversed, and you end up almost interviewing them, rather than pitching to them.

So yes, you've got to be able to generate the leads in the first place, then you've got to be able to sell them. Both steps have to be tested / validated / overcome for it to work.

So far, the strategy has been to:
  1. See if we can generate leads first.

  2. Use the leads to get first contact with businesses that can fulfil them. Give them the lead for free, on the understanding we'll call back tomorrow to see how they got on.

  3. Sell them on a one month free trial. It's not a given they will want to do this, and we're only interested in people who bite our hand off. One of the conditions is that they provide feedback on the leads (quote value, whether they converted into a sale, etc). So far they've been happy to supply this data which has been a little surprising to me actually - although we explain it helps us to filter out the lower quality leads, and increase the better quality leads. Even if they don't sign up later, we've bought *great* market data, and we should have a great testimonial.

  4. Move their needle.

  5. Turn off the leads, and start negotiating. (The "puppy dog" sale?)

I've got to step 5 a couple of times and am hopeful we'll close the most recent business.

For the other vertical, we're still working at it, but from a different angle based on our deeper understanding of the vertical.


Hmmm... I hope this is adding to the OP, and not derailing...



You are effectively giving them cash (if they know what to do with your leads).

^^^ This. You've got to find the businesses that can convert the leads into cash. It's their customers who will be paying for the leads at the end of the day. If they can't get ROI on the cost of the leads, then they're not going to be buying leads for very much longer.
 

marklov

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started cold calling plumbers


Yikes these guys are second only to dentists in the amount of solicitation
calls they get. Super jaded , even the one man ops can get over 20+ sales calls a day.

I'll tell you something interesting though.

Find a way to get these guys "DRY" setup construction type leads and they'll love you for it.

Leads where they can work in the dry, eat lunch work then go home.

Emergency based problems are the bane of their existence, imagine having a bad
day and have someone call you with a fat turd stuck in their toilet:mad:and you gotta hurry before it floods their wherever.

Man the stories I could tell lol
 

Andy Black

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Yikes these guys are second only to dentists in the amount of solicitation calls they get. Super jaded , even the one man ops can get over 20+ sales calls a day.

I'll tell you something interesting though.

Find a way to get these guys "DRY" setup construction type leads and they'll love you for it.

Leads where they can work in the dry, eat lunch work then go home.

Emergency based problems are the bane of their existence, imagine having a bad
day and have someone call you with a fat turd stuck in their toilet:mad:and you gotta hurry before it floods their wherever.

Man the stories I could tell lol
Yeah, plumbers, and low ticket washing machine repairs. Lol. What was I thinking?

There's money to be made from appliance repairs, but I think it's from a better backend than most plumbers have or think of.

It was so funny speaking to them, or their wives. I also have an English accent, so that would have been completely dodgy sounding here in Ireland (I'd sound like some dude in a UK call centre).

You're 100% right though... get them the type of work they want, and it's game on again.
 
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marklov

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There's money to be made from appliance repairs, but I think it's from a better backend than most plumbers have or think of.

Yeah, plumbers, and low ticket washing machine repairs. Lol. What was I thinking?

Appliance repairs, there's definately good money there so you weren't off mark at all
sorry if I implied that. Dishwasher repairs, water filter installs, heater repair,water softeners .

I always wanted to see if if having "appliance repair" stickers could work.

"if I break call Mr.fixer upper" or something would do for leads but's that's the offline marketer in me.



.
 
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wade1mil

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I stupidly assumed that the practitioners would welcome the leads........but they didn't.
This reminds me of reaching out to major bloggers/journalists to write about a new product or service.
Assuming your product isn't Earth shattering or backed by influencers...
If you just send an email and ask them to write about you, you'll get turned down a ton.
Instead, people suggest you develop a relationship with the journalists — like, comment and share their articles and social media messages.
Maybe something similar would have worked here as well.
If you were friends with those practitioners, do you think they'd be more open to buying the leads?
Surely if you were golf partners they'd do it, right? What if you walked into their office and hand delivered the lead or something?
Anyways, interesting story :)
 

MustImprove

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If you were friends with those practitioners, do you think they'd be more open to buying the leads?
Surely if you were golf partners they'd do it, right? What if you walked into their office and hand delivered the lead or something?
Anyways, interesting story :)

Hey Wade,

Thanks, and those are reasonable points. I'm sure there must have been a way of making a better fist of it than I did.

Of course what you (meaning all of us) need to figure out is the lifetime value of a customer.

Once you have that figure nailed then you can define how chummy you want to get with each customer, and how much effort you will put in.

In this case I'm not sure it would be worth a couple of rounds at the Royal and Ancient followed by a night of Tosca.....

........but if I'm selling "you" your second luxury yacht with a mil margin, heck we'll do it, and I'll polish your shoe studs with asses' milk on every tee!:)


I guess the overall point is ........validate (on both sides), including obtaining a very good understanding of the customer LTV. Then you make your moves.

Good thoughts, and thanks again!
 
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