The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

Managing Elancers

PEERless

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
7%
Jan 23, 2008
1,460
106
As suggested, I posted my web development project on Elance. I've had a few responses, but I am wondering how to manage the project once it begins. I admit that I know next to nothing about this -- hence hiring someone. But I hope I'm not ignorant enough to get screwed. Help?

I need a new site for Luck-Struck. I want more than sales copy. I want a community with a forum and a blog and a store. Something people will like visiting. I don't know how to describe that adequately. The most aggressive responder to my listing says they will do "Blog, Forum, Admin to manage ebooks, Cart, Gateway Integration. User interaction, Contact, and FAQ" What else am I missing... mainly I'm worried that I'll get what I described, but it won't be what I need! I'm especially ignorant of back-end stuff.

What am I missing?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

fanocks2003

Banned
Mar 31, 2008
1,319
167
Sweden
As suggested, I posted my web development project on Elance. I've had a few responses, but I am wondering how to manage the project once it begins. I admit that I know next to nothing about this -- hence hiring someone. But I hope I'm not ignorant enough to get screwed. Help?

I need a new site for Luck-Struck. I want more than sales copy. I want a community with a forum and a blog and a store. Something people will like visiting. I don't know how to describe that adequately. The most aggressive responder to my listing says they will do "Blog, Forum, Admin to manage ebooks, Cart, Gateway Integration. User interaction, Contact, and FAQ" What else am I missing... mainly I'm worried that I'll get what I described, but it won't be what I need! I'm especially ignorant of back-end stuff.

What am I missing?

If you pay money to a third party escrow account and set as a demand that you need to be 100% satisfied with the job before escrow money is to be released to the consultant, then you should not (atleast) lose any money (the only loss would be escrow fees).

Because that is the thing: If you are not satisfied then the consultant has not done his/her job correctly. As is usually said "both parties shall be satisfied. That is a good deal". You are satisfied when you get what you want (usually you need to give some guidelines for the consultant to use in his work. A frame is needed), in this case a website that is designed and programmed as to your liking and the consultant is happy when he/she gets your money:).
 

PEERless

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
7%
Jan 23, 2008
1,460
106
pay money to a third party escrow account
Yes, that is what I am doing. Thanks!

Here's a snippet of conversations I'm having with one proposed designer:

Me: We just need to be assured that this will be a complete system that is easy for us to use and edit. We will add items to the store in the future.
Designer: Yes this would be a complete system which would be extreemly easy to edit and use. You would be able to add as many products as you want anytime. I can show you a demo on how things work at CTC if you can join me online.
Me: Will we be able to accept credit cards? Or must we set up a separate merchant account to be used with the site?
Designer: Payments could be processed via paypal and you can create a merchat account at Paypal. We would use that account and all payments woud be directly added to it. Users would be able to pay via paypal and also via credit card.
Me: How would we manage edits once the project has begun?
Designer: Minor chnages and modficiations are always welcome as they are a part of the project but additions of significant features would be considered as add ons. If we were to charge extra for that then the price would be in ration of the feature as compared to the website and price charged for it.

...Anyone notice any red flags or questions I'm not asking?
 

SaraK

Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
27%
Apr 25, 2008
229
61
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I have worked as a designer on elance. The main thing is to make sure everyone is clear on expectations, which is sounds like you're doing well. If you signed up with the escrow option with Elance then Elance holds the funds until you are satisfied and release the funds. (This is like what fanocks was talking about). Elance charges a fee for this service but it is paid by the service provider, not you.

What you need to do (if not already done) is have the service provider give you a list of deliverables - these can be posted on elance's system - and you and the provider agree on the amount of money to be released after each deliverable is released.

You can give the provider examples of sites you like and ask them if you site will match that in functionality. You can also ask the provider what kinds of situations would add to the cost of the project. It should also be clear between you that they will tell you before starting on any work that will add to the scope of the project and the price.

As long as you are keeping communication open and not making any assumptions then things should go pretty smoothly.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

andviv

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
40%
Jul 27, 2007
5,361
2,143
Washington DC
Thanks for referring him to that other thread, MrPink.

PEERless, do a search about that same topic here in the forum. Others have answer your same question already.

Two other things I notice you are missing, and may be an issue if not taken care of:

1. Who owns the code once it is complete? There are many developers that build a system for you and then install it on your server using an encoder or obfuscator, that way THEY own the code. Any further changes to the application must be done by them as you don't have the source code.

2. Many people request a forum and then they get a forum. Problem is, it is not user-friendly or does not have any SEO integrated or many more plugins available to make it better for you, and everything else has to be coded at an hourly rate. Same story with the blog. That's why I am saying, go check their demo if they are telling you one is available. It is great if you tell them what features you want for each module. Like I said, a blog is a blog, but not all blogs are the same. This is even more evident on forum and e-commerce software.

Again, go search for those other threads about hiring developers. It has AMAZING input from people that have done this a few times, like lighthouse and biophase, among others.
 

andviv

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
40%
Jul 27, 2007
5,361
2,143
Washington DC
oh, and by the way... read the horror stories about elance developers scamming people... learn what are the loopholes and how you can protect yourself.

This is a great example of it, and look for the milestone date loophole:

Xicom Technologies of New Delhi, India Scams Elance User out of $10,000  Xicom Technologies of New Delhi, India Scams Elance User out of $10,000
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Bilgefisher

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
17%
Aug 29, 2007
1,815
308
Aurora, Co
oh, and by the way... read the horror stories about elance developers scamming people... learn what are the loopholes and how you can protect yourself.

This is a great example of it, and look for the milestone date loophole:

Xicom Technologies of New Delhi, India Scams Elance User out of $10,000  Xicom Technologies of New Delhi, India Scams Elance User out of $10,000

Kinda sounds like elance is as big of a problem in that story as Xicom. The questions begs to be asked, which customer is more important. The user or developer?
 

andviv

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
40%
Jul 27, 2007
5,361
2,143
Washington DC
I honestly believe the next "bubble" will be small internet businesses.

The demand is just too big, and growing.

Elance will have no issue finding more customers, but will miss big time a big developer like that company. Companies with great reputation and income are anchors for elance. People go with those companies thanks to the great reputation.

Usually a small entrepreneur tries to hire a developer for their site once, gets burned by the developer and then decides that this model only works for people that can develop their sites themselves.

So, the answer is, elance needs some big companies with great reputation and great income (half a million in 6 months with that type of service???) so they will protect them.

That is why you need to know the rules and the loopholes so you can be protected. And that is also one of the reasons I did not want to advertise over there either.

Just as a curious note, my best customers are those that have had terrible experiences in the past with shaky developers, as they do appreciate the service we provide.

Also, these same customers have the understanding of the importance of communicating the details. Requirements gathering is key, that is why I created the thread about the secret to successful websites.

If you ask for a blog, I can give you a blog in less than 5 mins. (don't believe me? I did that demo for lighthouse the other day). Same thing with a forum. Problem is, that is not what you wanted in the first place. Or, even worse, not even what you needed. The entrepreneur needs to understand the difference between must-haves and nice-to-haves. And then communicate that accordingly to the developers and make sure they understand what you ask for.

anyway, sorry for getting out of the original topic... you can tell I'm passionate about the topic and can talk and talk and talk and talk about this.
 

Bilgefisher

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
17%
Aug 29, 2007
1,815
308
Aurora, Co
No worries. I'm more then willing to listen. Web development is something that interests me on the e side of it, but frustrates the hell out of me when trying to build something myself.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

LightHouse

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
163%
Aug 13, 2007
4,297
6,996
Northern VA
If you ask for a blog, I can give you a blog in less than 5 mins. (don't believe me? I did that demo for lighthouse the other day). Same thing with a forum. Problem is, that is not what you wanted in the first place. Or, even worse, not even what you needed. The entrepreneur needs to understand the difference between must-haves and nice-to-haves. And then communicate that accordingly to the developers and make sure they understand what you ask for.

This is all absolutely on point!

No worries. I'm more then willing to listen. Web development is something that interests me on the e side of it, but frustrates the hell out of me when trying to build something myself.

The key in making money on the internet for small time business is to look at it like a B&M business. you wouldn't build your own building/storefront/parking lot all by yourself in the offline world would you? I hope not! It's not worth your time because you are not a builder. You would hire a GC (development comapny (palmera tech)) to build the store (site) properly because they have experience in doing it and know how to get the job done efficiently.

You focus on the customers and your main goal making money and leave the confusing stuff to people it doesnt confuse!
 

fanocks2003

Banned
Mar 31, 2008
1,319
167
Sweden
Kinda sounds like elance is as big of a problem in that story as Xicom. The questions begs to be asked, which customer is more important. The user or developer?

The problem seems to be more in the willingness of the customer to pay advance fees. If they made use of a third party escrow service, then most of the problems could have been solved without a loss of the fee.

Because, in third party escrow you have the right to say "no, the provider did not give me what I wanted or in the time frame I set for him to complete it. So I want my money back. Here is evidence of the fact that I'm right".

If you document the whole thing well, you should have no problem of getting out unscathed.
 

andviv

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
40%
Jul 27, 2007
5,361
2,143
Washington DC
The problem seems to be more in the willingness of the customer to pay advance fees. If they made use of a third party escrow service, then most of the problems could have been solved without a loss of the fee.

Because, in third party escrow you have the right to say "no, the provider did not give me what I wanted or in the time frame I set for him to complete it. So I want my money back. Here is evidence of the fact that I'm right".

If you document the whole thing well, you should have no problem of getting out unscathed.

fanocks, how many projects have you hired through elance?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

andviv

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
40%
Jul 27, 2007
5,361
2,143
Washington DC
I have done 5 hires through Elance. Successfully. Mostly design related outsourcing.

Have you found one company/freelancer that you like and continue the relationship with them after that, or every new job you put out there to see what you find?

I tend to stick with the people that produce the right results for me. I find going back to the market to find newer/better staff takes a lot of my time.
 

fanocks2003

Banned
Mar 31, 2008
1,319
167
Sweden
Have you found one company/freelancer that you like and continue the relationship with them after that, or every new job you put out there to see what you find?

I tend to stick with the people that produce the right results for me. I find going back to the market to find newer/better staff takes a lot of my time.

I usually have only brief encounters with consultants used via Elance.com. I already have many strategic partners that I use on a wholetime basis in my projects, but some things I do need to outsource through, example, elance.com. Usually I only need these consultants on a one time basis. It is usually odd and non-reccuring jobs:).
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Andrew

Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
22%
Aug 8, 2007
190
41
Here is a suggestion, hire a provider to do a small task for you. When they do it right, then give them another task.

Doing it this way minimizes your risk of time and money. The people who mess up the big jobs screw up the small ones too.
 

callmelucid

New Contributor
Read Fastlane!
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
13%
Jan 27, 2009
79
10
Brentwood, California, United States
be very specific. designers dont know what you have in mind for your site. basically lay the whole thing out so all he has to do is just translate it into code. you dont want him being finished following what you said but in his own eyes whereas you see it and are horrified. be very specific and both parties should be happy
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

Latest Posts

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top