Make Money with building Websites: The ultimate Way

[Patrick Jones]

So you want to learn how to program websites?

Good.

Don't.

You can spend hundreds of hours on teaching yourself the basic skills. Then you will be on the same level as half the Indian subcontinent. Only they are willing to work for a fistful of dollars per day.

You won't be very good at programming websites.

It takes thousands of hours to master a craft as complex as that.

So you have to ask yourself: Can't I get a better ROI on my time?

Yes you can.

Learn how to SELL websites.

Making money with websites is not about the websites. It's about the sales.

Why put yourself in competition with millions of people who are willing to work for less than you'd make flipping burgers at the golden arches?

You live in the western world and you have direct contact to businesses who are willing and able to spend several thousand dollars on basic websites.

Sell them those websites.

And then let somebody who has a clue of it implement the website.

Don't wast your time trying to tackle a highly challenging and highly frustrating technical craft.

Learn how to sell.

 

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[Fox]

"Sell websites that sell" is my personal approach.

This way you use your sales skills to not only land projects but also to build a better product that gets much higher ROI for your clients.

Code is cheap. Sales are always in demand.

 

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[hydemx]

As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.

 

[Patrick Jones]

Have you done this yourself? Can you describe how you've been able to execute this? I'm genuinely interested.

My background is in tech, I've been developing software for something like 20 years. For the past three years I've been growing a freelance website business (i.e. I already knew how to code). And only in the recent past have I learned that a mediocre website with great sales earns heaps more than a great website with weak sales.

These days I'm outsourcing most of my development work to developers in Vietnam and Romania and focus on selling and project management. In addition, I have started to offer people commission if they bring me new clients. Commission is usually in the 12-15% range, which is quite attractive for sales prices of €3000 to €5000.

As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.

So true!

So is the process:
1. Offer businesses their own website
2. Look for affordable website developers
3. Provide website to the business
Or is it:
1. Create multiple website templates
2. Offer to businesses

My recommendation would be:
1. Find local web developers/designers with a good track record
2. Contact them and offer to bring in business for a commission
3. Approach local businesses with outdated websites (i.e. those that already know that having a website is of importance) and get them to invest in something new and shiny.
4. Redirect leads to the developer and
5. in case of a sale: collect your commission

 

[banjoa]

This thread reminds me of a post I read about finding a niche.

Many people have difficulty finding ideas, niches or what to do because they think about what they can fulfill.

Thinking about what you can fulfill/do will limit a lot of people in coming up with a business idea because most people lack skills that the market wants and will pay for.

An easy way to go around this is to have a mindset shift:

Do something you don’t have the skills to fulfill. This way you will be forced to think like a business man and actually providing what people want.

I was listening to a podcast where Dan Norris said the reason why wpcurve was successful was because he outsourced all the technical aspects of the business from day one.

This forced him and his cofounder to focus on more important and high ROI activities from day one like marketing/sales.

Having this mindset shift will provide you with more ideas and niches to take on.

Why?:

Because you won’t be limited to only ideas you have the skills to execute.

All you have to do is listen to the market. Look around you and see what people are paying for without worrying about whether you can fulfill it or not.

This brings me back to one of my favourite quote:

‘Sales solves everything.’

When make sales you will figure it all out. So worry about only that.

 

[The Abundant Man]

 

[Patrick Jones]

Interesting reading. How do you plan on selling to the owners?

As mentioned above, I target businesses that already have a website. They don't need to be sold on the general idea of a website, only the idea of a new one.

Fear generally works well for any kind of selling and google provides good tools for striking it into their hearts. Most older websites fail horribly on Page Speed and Mobile Friendliness:
PageSpeed Insights
https://search.google.com/test/mobile-friendly

Reports full of red colours are quite effective. You can also tell them how google punishes mobile-unfriendly sites, how slow load times loose business, etc.

Ca$hvertising is a good read on learning to sell:
Ca$hvertising: How to Use More Than 100 Secrets of Ad-Agency Psychology to Make BIG MONEY Selling Anything to Anyone by Drew Eric Whitman

 

[GrandRub]

very good point! also applys to art. you dont have to be a starving artist. just learn how to sell.

"selling" is a very bad word for many people (including myself 2 or 3 years ago). reminds us of that cliche of a a pushy salesman or boilerroom telephone calls.

but what is a "salesman"? just somebody who consults somebody and informs them that they may have a great solution to the problems and needs of the buyer.

 

[Andy Black]

As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.

A sales tip for techies

 

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[Jeff Noel]

Step 1

How does hosting work after creating an html website?

I don't know if you're asking them the question, or you're genuinely curious.
Once you got your hosting setup with an hosting provider, you usually have access to cPanel or another similar hosting management panel (at least, FTP credentials). You upload the HTML files in the www directory. You then access them through your domain name (if you already have one setup, with it's DNS linked to your hosting provider) by typing https://example.com/myfile.html

Even if you're not building a transactionnal website, I highly suggest getting an SSL Certificate so your website uses the HTTPS protocol. Popular web browsers and search engines have already begun punishing HTTP websites, since they aren't using a secured protocol.

If you're just starting, I can recommend NameCheap's Stellar Hosting bundle. If you purchase your domain name with then, they also include the SSL Certificate for the year most of the time (I'm not affiliated with them, I just prefer them to GoDaddy & Hostgator from past experiences).

 

[Patrick Jones]

Atleast this could become fastlane instead of just getting a commission?

That sounds like building up a web agency.

For me the approach outlined in this thread is not fastlane. It's something that allows you to work flexibly, pays good money and teaches you to think in terms of needs and wants.

It gives you the freedom and space to build something fastlane.

 

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[itfactor]

As mentioned above, I target businesses that already have a website. They don't need to be sold on the general idea of a website, only the idea of a new one.

Fear generally works well for any kind of selling and google provides good tools for striking it into their hearts. Most older websites fail horribly on Page Speed and Mobile Friendliness:
PageSpeed Insights
Mobile-Friendly Test - Google Search Console

Reports full of red colours are quite effective. You can also tell them how google punishes mobile-unfriendly sites, how slow load times loose business, etc.

Ca$hvertising is a good read on learning to sell:
Ca$hvertising: How to Use More Than 100 Secrets of Ad-Agency Psychology to Make BIG MONEY Selling Anything to Anyone by Drew Eric Whitman

I had some limited but rewarding success using this method in the past in selling SEO services.

What I did was:
- Find a local business that have just published a print ad in the newspapers. In case you don't know, a tiny square in the classifieds can cost $X,XXX to $X,XXXX. This way I know that these guys have the marketing budget to spend on.

- Research on the business site's Google search position, Google Maps reviews, Yelp, Facebook page reviews.

- Print everything on paper. Whip out a red marker and circle every little item that is negative. Bad reviews, low Google ranking. I'll even stick some handwritten post-it notes with my own comments to give it a personal touch.

- Put every page together in a nice folder with the cover that reads "Important SEO information about XYZ LLC", put a paper band around the folder (like those that comes with those expensive writing notebooks) that contains my contact info.

- Mail the folder in a manila envelope to the target business. Sometimes they will call back, but usually they won't. I will give a follow-up call and ask them what they think about my little report about their business.

From there on it's smooth-sailing to a close. For every 10 mailers each month I closed 3 clients.

This mailer method costs about $4-6 per business including all the writing materials and stamps. It's cheap considering the amount of fees you are charging for SEO services.

Now the reason why I had limited success was because:

- It becomes very time consuming to scale. In one month I could only manage 15 mailers max. If I hire another guy to do 30 a month, the labour costs do add up.

- I shifted my services from SEO to PPC shortly (because that's where my interest lies), and for PPC this method doesn't work with the mailer because it's impossible to get any data about your target business's ad campaign unless you have access to their Facebook or Instagram account.

Overall, I would say this mailer method is a highly effective way to get your foot in the door for an SEO, website design, or even online reputation management business. And it sure as hell beats cold-calling hundreds of people and getting the phone hanged up on you

 

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[ProcessPro]

So you want to learn how to program websites?

Good.

Don't.

You can spend hundreds of hours on teaching yourself the basic skills. Then you will be on the same level as half the Indian subcontinent. Only they are willing to work for a fistful of dollars per day.

You won't be very good at programming websites.

It takes thousands of hours to master a craft as complex as that.

So you have to ask yourself: Can't I get a better ROI on my time?

Yes you can.

Learn how to SELL websites.

Making money with websites is not about the websites. It's about the sales.

Why put yourself in competition with millions of people who are willing to work for less than you'd make flipping burgers at the golden arches?

You live in the western world and you have direct contact to businesses who are willing and able to spend several thousand dollars on basic websites.

Sell them those websites.

And then let somebody who has a clue of it implement the website.

Don't wast your time trying to tackle a highly challenging and highly frustrating technical craft.

Learn how to sell.

Have you done this yourself? Can you describe how you've been able to execute this? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[mdivljina]

Code is cheap. Sales are always in demand.

Yes, yes and yes. I so agree with this line.

To be honest, I believe I was lucky because my life took a turn where I'm going to be a salesman and not the guy who does code, but that is so true.

Good salesmen are always in demand and the 80/20 principle just highlights that. Selling is no zero-sum game.

Don't know what the 80/20 principle is? Here is a wikipedia article.

 

[Danczyk]

You live in the western world and you have direct contact to businesses who are willing and able to spend several thousand dollars on basic websites.

What if you don't live in west? Do you have a blueprint for those of us far from the civilization? There is always the trust issue.

I have no problem finding local businesses but it's peanuts and not worth working on really.

 

[banjoa]

How do you transfer the website domain and stuff?

That’s OP’s point. It’s none of your business. Just sell and leave that to someone else.

 

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[Arqium]

As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.

I was working as consctruction manager as architect (civil engineer job btw) a few years ago, building a very luxurious condo here in Brazil.

A friend of mine was a real state agent, he sold 1 apartment that I was building, and walked away with something like 1 year of my pay in the bag as his comission.... in fact a bit more.
I was earning something like 20k year (salary here is low), and he went out with 30k comission... because the apartment he sold was something like 600k, and his comission was 5%.

 

[Patrick Jones]

You forward the lead to the developer and collect your commission.

Technical stuff you do not want to concern yourself with.

 

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[BlokeInProgress]

Sell them those websites.

So is the process:

1. Offer businesses their own website
2. Look for affordable website developers
3. Provide website to the business

Or is it:

1. Create multiple website templates
2. Offer to businesses

Thanks.

 

[srodrigo]

Oursourcing is very difficult, as 99.9% of the cheap developers suck balls.

Yeah, bargains apart, you get what you pay for. Also, good devs are usually intelligent people; intelligent people wouldn't ask for less than they're worth.

I have no problem finding local businesses but it's peanuts and not worth working on really.

Maybe to start with and build a portfolio, local business are fine. Then, markets where you can add more value.

BTW looks like everyone is selling static websites

 

[Patrick Jones]

How would you do this?
Would you create a partnership with a skilled coder or would you "sell" leads for a commission?

The latter is what I have experience with. It is easy to convince developers of it, because it requires no investment on their side. You just give them the qualified lead and wait for your commission to be paid. Which obviously requires some trust on your part.

How would you imagine a partnership to work?

That’s OP’s point. It’s none of your business. Just sell and leave that to someone else.

Thank you for pointing that out

 

[Bellsman]

A sales tip for techies

Awesome post. Enthusiasm is key.

 

[GrandRub]

but if i am good at selling websites and services - why should i stay with the comission and not do it myself/outsource?

3/4 of local businesses just need a good converting, modern looking website and nothing special that would need a deeper coding knowledge.


Selling is indeed the most valuable knowledge. not selling and pushing things like a idiot on cocaine. but finding and screening prospects, adressing needs, building relationships and solving problems.

that is something no machine can do and i think if you know how to sell you could sell almost everything.

 

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[Patrick Jones]

but if i am good at selling websites and services - why should i stay with the comission and not do it myself/outsource?

Doing it yourself would again mean investing time in learning a technical skill. Time you could better spend on selling websites and making money.

Oursourcing is very difficult, as 99.9% of the cheap developers suck balls.

Even if you manage to find a good one, running them well is still a new challenge (that usually requires some technical know-how on your end).

The idea is to rid yourself of the technical part of the business. You'll never be good at building websites or running an outsourcing team - unless you spend hundreds/thousands of hours on doing it. Which brings you back to the ROI question.

3/4 of local businesses just need a good converting, modern looking website and nothing special that would need a deeper coding knowledge.

Very true. And they need a website that looks good across devices and loads fast. A website that can be adjusted quickly and easily and doesn't require fiddling around with a visual composer for hours. Something secure that doesn't get hacked the moment you index it on google.

 

[MakeItHappen]

And then let somebody who has a clue of it implement the website.

How would you do this?
Would you create a partnership with a skilled coder or would you "sell" leads for a commission?

 

[Jeff Noel]

How do you transfer the website domain and stuff?

This is relatively easy. In most cases if you never did this, ask help from their domain registrar or hosting provider (most of the time they're the same entity). They need to provide you a transfer code that the new domain registrar will require for the transfer.

Some registrar charge fees for domain transfer as far as I know.

 

[KeepGoin]

You forward the lead to the developer and collect your commission.

Technical stuff you do not want to concern yourself with.

Do you contact these leads through a cold call after finding the outdated site? Or is it an email?

 

[Patrick Jones]

Do you contact these leads through a cold call after finding the outdated site? Or is it an email?

Try both, see what works for you. It depends heavily on country, target audience, etc. You can also try and find out where they network, meet them in person.

Can you tell something more about the profits and earnings? How much usually those programmers from countries like Vietnam/Romonia takes per one website and how much profit do you get per the whole transaction? I know it depends on the client, but just typical price spread.

You don't want to interact with developers from remote countries. For it to produce good results, you will need to have a solid understanding of the technical side of things. As well as be very good in project management, issue management, etc.

The idea is for you to bring clients from a western country in touch with a developer from a western country. Clients need websites and developers don't like doing sales/acquisition. That's the need you want to address.

Bring a developer a lead for a new website that the client pays €3,000 for. Receive 12% commission - you do the math.

 

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[Deleted67963]

as a fullstack dev too, you don't imagine the work and investment in term of time it cost us to be top notch.
tech is growing so fast and competition is so high that you need to dedicate all your time for it.
currently I'm selling my time 400€/day (7h) (in the French country side so my costOfLife/income ratio is very good for my needs) on a 5 to 6 days per week and I can assure you it's exhausting AF, and that's why I joined the community.

@Patrick Jones is 100% right, you can have the nerds knowlegdes or the fanciest tech in your plateform, if you don't know how to sell you are doomed. Simple as that

I'm amazed by all the shitty stuff being sold (from a tech and engineer view)....

 

[0dysseus]

I am a developer, and I agree. Me learning sales and marketing is a proof of that.

If you just want to make $$$, probably no need.

But don't forget, being technical is a ridiculous advantage. Should you pursue that mastery if you don't already have it? I wouldn't recommend it, unless it is of interest to you. Having both skillsets developed will put you in the top 1% of online entrepreneurs IMHO.

Plus, being an engineer develops in you an entire new set of worldviews and models, whose value leaks out into every area of your life.