The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success
  • Join 50,000+ entrepreneurs who are earning their freedom and living their dream.

    "Fastlane" is an entrepreneur discussion forum based on The Unscripted Entrepreneurial Framework (TUNEF) outlined in the two best-selling books by MJ DeMarco (The Millionaire Fastlane and UNSCRIPTED™). From multimillionaires to digital nomads, the forum features real entrepreneurs creating real businesses.

    Download (Unscripted) Download (Millionaire Fastlane) Register
    Registering for the forum removes this block.

Make Money with building Websites: The ultimate Way

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
So you want to learn how to program websites?

Good.

Don't.

You can spend hundreds of hours on teaching yourself the basic skills. Then you will be on the same level as half the Indian subcontinent. Only they are willing to work for a fistful of dollars per day.

You won't be very good at programming websites.

It takes thousands of hours to master a craft as complex as that.

So you have to ask yourself: Can't I get a better ROI on my time?

Yes you can.

Learn how to SELL websites.

Making money with websites is not about the websites. It's about the sales.

Why put yourself in competition with millions of people who are willing to work for less than you'd make flipping burgers at the golden arches?

You live in the western world and you have direct contact to businesses who are willing and able to spend several thousand dollars on basic websites.

Sell them those websites.

And then let somebody who has a clue of it implement the website.

Don't wast your time trying to tackle a highly challenging and highly frustrating technical craft.

Learn how to sell.
 

Become a Fastlane INSIDER to view the forum ad free.

ProcessPro

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Apr 26, 2018
143
188
142
So you want to learn how to program websites?

Good.

Don't.

You can spend hundreds of hours on teaching yourself the basic skills. Then you will be on the same level as half the Indian subcontinent. Only they are willing to work for a fistful of dollars per day.

You won't be very good at programming websites.

It takes thousands of hours to master a craft as complex as that.

So you have to ask yourself: Can't I get a better ROI on my time?

Yes you can.

Learn how to SELL websites.

Making money with websites is not about the websites. It's about the sales.

Why put yourself in competition with millions of people who are willing to work for less than you'd make flipping burgers at the golden arches?

You live in the western world and you have direct contact to businesses who are willing and able to spend several thousand dollars on basic websites.

Sell them those websites.

And then let somebody who has a clue of it implement the website.

Don't wast your time trying to tackle a highly challenging and highly frustrating technical craft.

Learn how to sell.
Have you done this yourself? Can you describe how you've been able to execute this? I'm genuinely interested.
 

hydemx

Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 20, 2018
28
55
28
As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Read Millionaire Fastlane
May 20, 2014
8,072
34,180
4,306
Ireland
www.andyblack.net
As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.
A sales tip for techies
 

LinorCG

Business Building Warrior
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Feb 6, 2014
405
471
246
Australia
Sell them those websites.
So is the process:

1. Offer businesses their own website
2. Look for affordable website developers
3. Provide website to the business

Or is it:

1. Create multiple website templates
2. Offer to businesses

Thanks.
 

GrandRub

Bronze Contributor
Mar 27, 2019
79
102
129
Germany
very good point! also applys to art. you dont have to be a starving artist. just learn how to sell.

"selling" is a very bad word for many people (including myself 2 or 3 years ago). reminds us of that cliche of a a pushy salesman or boilerroom telephone calls.

but what is a "salesman"? just somebody who consults somebody and informs them that they may have a great solution to the problems and needs of the buyer.
 

Fox

Moderator
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Aug 19, 2015
1,855
13,548
2,776
Europe
"Sell websites that sell" is my personal approach.

This way you use your sales skills to not only land projects but also to build a better product that gets much higher ROI for your clients.

Code is cheap. Sales are always in demand.
 

Become a Fastlane INSIDER to view the forum ad free.

mdivljina

Contributor
Apr 1, 2019
40
58
110
Croatia
Code is cheap. Sales are always in demand.
Yes, yes and yes. I so agree with this line.

To be honest, I believe I was lucky because my life took a turn where I'm going to be a salesman and not the guy who does code, but that is so true.

Good salesmen are always in demand and the 80/20 principle just highlights that. Selling is no zero-sum game.

Don't know what the 80/20 principle is? Here is a wikipedia article.
 

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
Have you done this yourself? Can you describe how you've been able to execute this? I'm genuinely interested.
My background is in tech, I've been developing software for something like 20 years. For the past three years I've been growing a freelance website business (i.e. I already knew how to code). And only in the recent past have I learned that a mediocre website with great sales earns heaps more than a great website with weak sales.

These days I'm outsourcing most of my development work to developers in Vietnam and Romania and focus on selling and project management. In addition, I have started to offer people commission if they bring me new clients. Commission is usually in the 12-15% range, which is quite attractive for sales prices of €3000 to €5000.

As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.
So true!

So is the process:
1. Offer businesses their own website
2. Look for affordable website developers
3. Provide website to the business
Or is it:
1. Create multiple website templates
2. Offer to businesses
My recommendation would be:
1. Find local web developers/designers with a good track record
2. Contact them and offer to bring in business for a commission
3. Approach local businesses with outdated websites (i.e. those that already know that having a website is of importance) and get them to invest in something new and shiny.
4. Redirect leads to the developer and
5. in case of a sale: collect your commission
 

GrandRub

Bronze Contributor
Mar 27, 2019
79
102
129
Germany
but if i am good at selling websites and services - why should i stay with the comission and not do it myself/outsource?

3/4 of local businesses just need a good converting, modern looking website and nothing special that would need a deeper coding knowledge.


Selling is indeed the most valuable knowledge. not selling and pushing things like a idiot on cocaine. but finding and screening prospects, adressing needs, building relationships and solving problems.

that is something no machine can do and i think if you know how to sell you could sell almost everything.
 

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
but if i am good at selling websites and services - why should i stay with the comission and not do it myself/outsource?
Doing it yourself would again mean investing time in learning a technical skill. Time you could better spend on selling websites and making money.

Oursourcing is very difficult, as 99.9% of the cheap developers suck balls.

Even if you manage to find a good one, running them well is still a new challenge (that usually requires some technical know-how on your end).

The idea is to rid yourself of the technical part of the business. You'll never be good at building websites or running an outsourcing team - unless you spend hundreds/thousands of hours on doing it. Which brings you back to the ROI question.

3/4 of local businesses just need a good converting, modern looking website and nothing special that would need a deeper coding knowledge.
Very true. And they need a website that looks good across devices and loads fast. A website that can be adjusted quickly and easily and doesn't require fiddling around with a visual composer for hours. Something secure that doesn't get hacked the moment you index it on google.
 

Danczyk

Contributor
Feb 20, 2019
32
34
99
Belarus
You live in the western world and you have direct contact to businesses who are willing and able to spend several thousand dollars on basic websites.
What if you don't live in west? Do you have a blueprint for those of us far from the civilization? There is always the trust issue.

I have no problem finding local businesses but it's peanuts and not worth working on really.
 

ClaverCasley

Bronze Contributor
Sep 6, 2017
59
112
129
23
Malaysia
What if you don't live in west? Do you have a blueprint for those of us far from the civilization? There is always the trust issue.

I have no problem finding local businesses but it's peanuts and not worth working on really.
But a web design company do exists outside of the western world. If you 'sell websites that sells' to these web design company that should clear the problem:
"Sell websites that sell" is my personal approach.


Regarding the trust issue, you're running a B2B, not a B2C. Present them all the numbers, figures, that should convince them.

But, again. The website must sells.
 

hydemx

Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 20, 2018
28
55
28
How long should it take to make a decent, basic website?
It depends what basic and decent means to you. If you have a clear idea of what you need and is a static website you can grab a template and get the site up and running in matter of hours. The more experience you have the less time it’ll take of course.
 

The Abundant Man

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Jul 3, 2018
1,338
1,857
552
Have you done this yourself? Can you describe how you've been able to execute this? I'm genuinely interested.
Step 1
It depends what basic and decent means to you. If you have a clear idea of what you need and is a static website you can grab a template and get the site up and running in matter of hours. The more experience you have the less time it’ll take of course.
How does hosting work after creating an html website?
 

srodrigo

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 11, 2018
243
325
167
Oursourcing is very difficult, as 99.9% of the cheap developers suck balls.
Yeah, bargains apart, you get what you pay for. Also, good devs are usually intelligent people; intelligent people wouldn't ask for less than they're worth.

I have no problem finding local businesses but it's peanuts and not worth working on really.
Maybe to start with and build a portfolio, local business are fine. Then, markets where you can add more value.

BTW looks like everyone is selling static websites :)
 

Become a Fastlane INSIDER to view the forum ad free.

Jeff Noel

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Oct 26, 2018
512
1,009
369
Quebec, Canada
jfnoel.com
Step 1

How does hosting work after creating an html website?
I don't know if you're asking them the question, or you're genuinely curious.
Once you got your hosting setup with an hosting provider, you usually have access to cPanel or another similar hosting management panel (at least, FTP credentials). You upload the HTML files in the www directory. You then access them through your domain name (if you already have one setup, with it's DNS linked to your hosting provider) by typing https://example.com/myfile.html

Even if you're not building a transactionnal website, I highly suggest getting an SSL Certificate so your website uses the HTTPS protocol. Popular web browsers and search engines have already begun punishing HTTP websites, since they aren't using a secured protocol.

If you're just starting, I can recommend NameCheap's Stellar Hosting bundle. If you purchase your domain name with then, they also include the SSL Certificate for the year most of the time (I'm not affiliated with them, I just prefer them to GoDaddy & Hostgator from past experiences).
 

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
Interesting reading. How do you plan on selling to the owners?
As mentioned above, I target businesses that already have a website. They don't need to be sold on the general idea of a website, only the idea of a new one.

Fear generally works well for any kind of selling and google provides good tools for striking it into their hearts. Most older websites fail horribly on Page Speed and Mobile Friendliness:
PageSpeed Insights
https://search.google.com/test/mobile-friendly

Reports full of red colours are quite effective. You can also tell them how google punishes mobile-unfriendly sites, how slow load times loose business, etc.

Ca$hvertising is a good read on learning to sell:
Ca$hvertising: How to Use More Than 100 Secrets of Ad-Agency Psychology to Make BIG MONEY Selling Anything to Anyone by Drew Eric Whitman
 

ZeroTo100

Silver Contributor
Speedway Pass
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Feb 2, 2016
331
554
255
New York City / New Jersey
I’ve done this before and actually am working on one that will be done within the next week or so.

I can probably build around 1 Amazon/affiliate site a week with around 25,000 - 30,000 words as well as include some highly authoritative backlinks (non PBN) and sell them for $2200 bucks each.

PM me if you’d like one :).
 

cwalto12

Contributor
Feb 21, 2018
48
90
123
Louisville
As mentioned above, I target businesses that already have a website. They don't need to be sold on the general idea of a website, only the idea of a new one.

Fear generally works well for any kind of selling and google provides good tools for striking it into their hearts. Most older websites fail horribly on Page Speed and Mobile Friendliness:
PageSpeed Insights
https://search.google.com/test/mobile-friendly

Reports full of red colours are quite effective. You can also tell them how google punishes mobile-unfriendly sites, how slow load times loose business, etc.

Ca$hvertising is a good read on learning to sell:
Ca$hvertising: How to Use More Than 100 Secrets of Ad-Agency Psychology to Make BIG MONEY Selling Anything to Anyone by Drew Eric Whitman
How do you transfer the website domain and stuff?
 

Jeff Noel

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Oct 26, 2018
512
1,009
369
Quebec, Canada
jfnoel.com
How do you transfer the website domain and stuff?
This is relatively easy. In most cases if you never did this, ask help from their domain registrar or hosting provider (most of the time they're the same entity). They need to provide you a transfer code that the new domain registrar will require for the transfer.

Some registrar charge fees for domain transfer as far as I know.
 

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
How would you do this?
Would you create a partnership with a skilled coder or would you "sell" leads for a commission?
The latter is what I have experience with. It is easy to convince developers of it, because it requires no investment on their side. You just give them the qualified lead and wait for your commission to be paid. Which obviously requires some trust on your part.

How would you imagine a partnership to work?

That’s OP’s point. It’s none of your business. Just sell and leave that to someone else.
Thank you for pointing that out :)
 

MakeItHappen

Silver Contributor
Speedway Pass
Apr 12, 2012
446
648
281
Thanks @Patrick Jones
How would you imagine a partnership to work?
I am not sure.

Maybe finding a designer that is interested in starting a business with you (likely after you have sold him some leads so that he knows you gab sell).

He could take care of the design work and ultimatively outsourcing/hiring more good designers.

You would grow and scale the customer acquisition, hiring sales people etc.

Both of you profit from the growing value of the equity of the business.

Atleast this could become fastlane instead of just getting a commission?
 

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
Atleast this could become fastlane instead of just getting a commission?
That sounds like building up a web agency.

For me the approach outlined in this thread is not fastlane. It's something that allows you to work flexibly, pays good money and teaches you to think in terms of needs and wants.

It gives you the freedom and space to build something fastlane.
 

banjoa

Present
May 7, 2017
61
117
129
30
Nigeria
This thread reminds me of a post I read about finding a niche.

Many people have difficulty finding ideas, niches or what to do because they think about what they can fulfill.

Thinking about what you can fulfill/do will limit a lot of people in coming up with a business idea because most people lack skills that the market wants and will pay for.

An easy way to go around this is to have a mindset shift:

Do something you don’t have the skills to fulfill. This way you will be forced to think like a business man and actually providing what people want.

I was listening to a podcast where Dan Norris said the reason why wpcurve was successful was because he outsourced all the technical aspects of the business from day one.

This forced him and his cofounder to focus on more important and high ROI activities from day one like marketing/sales.

Having this mindset shift will provide you with more ideas and niches to take on.

Why?:

Because you won’t be limited to only ideas you have the skills to execute.

All you have to do is listen to the market. Look around you and see what people are paying for without worrying about whether you can fulfill it or not.

This brings me back to one of my favourite quote:

‘Sales solves everything.’

When make sales you will figure it all out. So worry about only that.
 
Last edited:

Mr992

New Contributor
Nov 29, 2016
10
7
20
27
1. Find and partner with a reputable web agency in your area.
2. Write up contracts so nobody gets scammed.
3. Ask them how much is their average sale. Let's say they say 5k.
4. Double that price. You find businesses that need a website, you sell each one for 10k.
5. Get paid 50% upfront from the client. You then pay 50% of that to the agency so they begin the work.
6. When the work is done (Which you won't have to do any of it, this is what the agency specializes in, let them deal with all the back and forth and designs and colors and whatever) you collect the remaining 50% from the client and do 50/50 with the agency again.
7. Win-win for all parties.

This will require hustle and good sales knowledge. Won't be easy and simple at first. You will probably have to keep trying until you find an agency that is a good fit. The transition between you the seller and the agency that the client goes through should be simple, professional, smooth and efficient.

But is doable. You have to take care of all the details at first, then you can create a system that makes you 100k profit a year (or more if you want it and can hustle).

8. Now use that money to go Fastlane. Or simply live comfortably on your 100k profit a year business.



There are many ways you can use to make this work. Agency, freelancers, your own in-house development team.
You will need to spend some time learning the basics of the technologies used, but nowhere near close professional skills.


If you are a good coder, and learn enough sales, then you've hit the jackpot. You can do anything you want. You're a goldmine waiting to be used.
 
Last edited:

Arqium

New Contributor
Apr 20, 2019
4
7
13
As a software engineer, most of us grow up with this kind of one sided mentality about ROI. We always push for the technical mastery; we want to use the fanciest framework, use shiny things like GraphQL and other buzzy technologies, but at the end, the people who know how to sell get the most money, at least in my experience. It's hard to swap the chip from being overly technical to be a good seller.

I was working as consctruction manager as architect (civil engineer job btw) a few years ago, building a very luxurious condo here in Brazil.

A friend of mine was a real state agent, he sold 1 apartment that I was building, and walked away with something like 1 year of my pay in the bag as his comission.... in fact a bit more.
I was earning something like 20k year (salary here is low), and he went out with 30k comission... because the apartment he sold was something like 600k, and his comission was 5%.
 

Over

New Contributor
Aug 19, 2018
17
12
22
I know it is a basic question, but I am not familiar with this stuff. Out of curiosity - let's say I have found a web developer from poor country. He is ready to do a site for me. Then I've found a local compay with bad and old site. I talked with them and they agreed to change their website. Do I need some accesses to their webpage to modify it? Or do I need to ask my developer to create it from the scratch? And If yes, then what about a domain name? Can someone please explain me this part of process? Thanks.
 

KeepGoin

Contributor
Speedway Pass
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Mar 17, 2016
62
88
128
31
You forward the lead to the developer and collect your commission.

Technical stuff you do not want to concern yourself with.
Do you contact these leads through a cold call after finding the outdated site? Or is it an email?
 

Over

New Contributor
Aug 19, 2018
17
12
22
You forward the lead to the developer and collect your commission.

Technical stuff you do not want to concern yourself with.
Can you tell something more about the profits and earnings? How much usually those programmers from countries like Vietnam/Romonia takes per one website and how much profit do you get per the whole transaction? I know it depends on the client, but just typical price spread.
 

Patrick Jones

growing
Speedway Pass
Dec 9, 2018
118
322
170
Berlin
Do you contact these leads through a cold call after finding the outdated site? Or is it an email?
Try both, see what works for you. It depends heavily on country, target audience, etc. You can also try and find out where they network, meet them in person.

Can you tell something more about the profits and earnings? How much usually those programmers from countries like Vietnam/Romonia takes per one website and how much profit do you get per the whole transaction? I know it depends on the client, but just typical price spread.
You don't want to interact with developers from remote countries. For it to produce good results, you will need to have a solid understanding of the technical side of things. As well as be very good in project management, issue management, etc.

The idea is for you to bring clients from a western country in touch with a developer from a western country. Clients need websites and developers don't like doing sales/acquisition. That's the need you want to address.

Bring a developer a lead for a new website that the client pays €3,000 for. Receive 12% commission - you do the math.
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post thread…

Search the Forum



Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe to become an INSIDER.

FASTLANE INSIDERS

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.


Top Bottom