MacBook Air or Dell XPS 13 Laptop for programming?

[MTF]

I've been using Dells for over a decade. For business use, they have one super important advantage over competition: their Next Business Day on-site warranty. If you have any issues, you call Dell and if the issue requires a technician, they'll fix it at your home or office the next business day. They never failed me.

 

[OverByte]

Mac vs Windows is basically an ideological argument, it will be hard to get objective responses. There are cults for both. I don't know anyone who likes both platforms equally.

A few thoughts for anyone looking to purchase a computer for programming:

Throwing out the benchmark specs is likely over thinking this unless you are using your computer for graphic processing or other high stress tasks. If you are talking about running VS code to program some node apps you don't need to look at benchmarks anything modern will work. However, some more robust (read: bloated) IDEs (like Xcode/IntelliJ) will suffer on a macbook air (i speak from experience)

If you are going to purchase a computer for business, and if your business is programming, then the computer is a tool which means buy the best you can afford. You want something you enjoy using. On this point, if you are going to buy a Mac then I would highly suggest a pro vs the air for this reason provided you can afford it. Buy one used if cost is a concern, people tend to take really good care of them (re: cult reference above). Having owned and programmed on both the pro is way more enjoyable to use, it's speedier, crisper display, can easily run external monitor, etc.

Screen size and resolution is important, especially if you are going to be using the laptop screen as primary screen. IMO a 13 inch screen is not realistic to use for lengthy sessions.

If you are hooking up an external monitor (which you probably should be) then you should consider if the laptop can support this (ie can it support a 2k monitor, can it support 2, etc).

What you are planning on building should inform your OS decision:

Examples:
- Buying windows for programming will limit some options (like iOS development), not sure if that is important to you, but considering the size of the app store it's something to keep in mind.
- The .NET argument was raised for windows (tangent dotnetcore was released to address this though not fully baked), more importantly I don't know why you'd choose .NET for anything if you're building something new.
- Windows could be a better platform for game dev (depending on the circumstances)

Now....

Since I tried to keep things objective above, I'll now give my completely biased and unabashed personal assessment as a software engineer who has professionally developed in Java, C#, Swift/Obj-C, Javascript, Python, PHP, Ruby and a bunch of other languages, using too many IDEs and frameworks to list... and that is that... Windows is terrible compared to OSX for programming. I find the usability terrible, the terminal is terrible (and being comfortable with the shell is a big productivity booster), the tooling is terrible... it goes on... I'll caveat and admit that I've stayed as far away from windows as possible for along time it's possible they have gotten their act together.. but i doubt it.

Personally, i use a macbook pro 2015 model, I've had it for years, it's awesome. Buy a PC if you want to play games or need to do something graphically intensive. Macs are expensive but well worth it IMO for business/programming.

Re: Linux recommendations: buying a PC and putting Ubuntu on it is like buying an unpolished half-baked Mac. OSX is just a polished version of Unix that most apps actually have proper compatibility with because there is sufficient demand/market. Using linux you will quickly run into some app you want to use that isn't supported (like photoshop), or something you want to do that isn't supported by the drivers for some reason (like writing shader code) and you'll be forced to dual boot into your Windows nightmare and wish you took this advice seriously

 

[eliquid]

As someone that has been coding since 1999 and is on my 7th SaaS, I picked up a ASUS PRO 5440

I think mine might be a slightly diff model than this : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DKVHS8M/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20 ( no affiliate link ), but I also looked at Mac as I have an older 17 inch MacBook Pro.

I also looked at the Dell XPS 13.

I settled on this ASUS PRO 5440 model. It is so small and light and handles everything I throw at it.

I did have some headphone port issues ( software related, not hardware related ) but a few updates fixed it.

If I didn't pick this, I would have went Dell XPS 13.

Take a look at the ASUS PRO models if you are an advanced user of Windows.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Depends on what platforms you want to develop for. Though I don’t think you can go wrong with either.

Remember you can dual boot a Mac with MacOS and windows.

@GrayCode @lowtek

 

[Kak]

As someone typing this from a Macbook Air that I picked up about 3 months ago... I freaking love it, but I would get the XPS if it was going to be my only computer. I have a desktop that I built myself as well. It has an 8 core processor, 32GB of ram, 3.5TB of storage and a graphics card that pushes 4k@60Hz for my 50 inch TV "monitor."

It isn't the operating system that is the problem. The hardware and power specs are just a lot lower on the Air than on the XPS. If you want a Mac as your only computer, I would take a look at the Macbook Pro.

The majority of my computer work is simple communications though... I know nothing about programming. So the low powered Air suits my needs just fine. I wouldn't try to record and edit a radio show on the Air though.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[csalvato]

I do prefer Windows over Mac, but what bothers me is that I can't easily program for all operating systems using a pc unlike with a Mac.

However, I think I will go with the XPS as at this point I'm not 100% sure where my programming skills will take me.

Thanks for your feedback!

if you aren’t sure then the safer bet would be a Mac since Mac can run Linux, windows and OS X.

If you want to program and get a PC, I would suggest checking out Ubuntu Linux as a Windows alternative since most programming tutorials assume a Unix based OS like OS X or Linux.

 

[Kak]

OK I can also recommend this. It is something @ChrisV recommended.

I own a "Shadow PC" as well. It is targeted at gamers, but it is a powerful PC that you can access from the weakest of laptops. Transform your device Into a Gaming PC!

I totally forgot about it, but it makes the Air totally viable as your only computer again. I seriously can't recommend the Shadow enough.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[GIlman]

You can program on either, but depending on the stack you intend to deploy to, there are advantages to mac or PC. If you intend to deploy to .net servers, I would program on PC, because you can setup the native environment on your laptop. If you are deploying to linux based servers, you can setup a native environment better on a mac than windows, since it is BSD based and all the server software can be installed on your mac. Of course you could have a PC or MAC with linux.

Now days all the programming I do is Node.js/mongodb on the server, so I prefer to have mac with the actual terminal to setup and manage my servers. I use to be die hard linux, but I really missed the quality commercial application support, and switched to mac many years ago because I felt I got the best of both worlds. Linux like (BSD) core that you can access at any time through the shell, with a slick GUI and commercial grade apps on top.

As an aside, I actually own a development shop in vietnam. We have about 20 computers we use. About 1/2 are macs, 1/2 PC's. We don't dictate what people choose to use, but all the PC's are linux installed not windows, I have never asked but I believe it's the same reason I stated, which is people like to be able to have full native install of the server on their dev machines.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[rpeck90]

I use a Dell XPS 15 9560.

Beyond hardware, one of the primary concerns you should have is library compatibility for each OS.

Because of its unix origins, macOS has homebrew, and access to a number of centralized repositories for such things as OpenSSL, libxml etc. Windows has none of this. Although the likes of chocolatey and msys2 provide some respite.

This means developing on Windows can be difficult, particularly if you're doing things not directly covered by Microsoft (Visual Studio etc). I prefer Windows, but you may need to take time to set up your development environment.

-

If you detail what languages/frameworks you're hoping to be coding in, I'd be able to provide a more informed response. For now, I'd recommend Windows on a new XPS. Dell have done a terrific job.

-

I'm aware that with a pc you can't develop iOS/Mac

You can actually develop them (with Xamarin), but can't compile/deploy them unless using XCode which only runs on mac.

 

[Donkky12]

I would also like to add that you should check the requirements for the programming language you want to use. Like minimum specs etc. I am using a Macbook Pro with 250 GB of storage. Using Bootcamp to install windows on a Mac is now easier that Apple's official site has instructions. The only issue is - it takes up like lots of space (60-70GB if i remember correctly). Hence, if you still want to go for Macbook Pro - preferably get one with a higher storage (than mine).

Also if your programming language requires really strong graphics requirement as part of your process, Macbook isn't the best for running high GPU softwares (I can't play high quality graphic games on a Macbook pro with an Intel graphics card, it would just lag or not load properly even with the "retina display").

In summary, check the specs between the platforms you're considering and compare it with the requirement of what you intend to do (the programs you'll be using etc.) and avoid finding yourself not able to run a certain program smoothly post-purchase

 

[andrewsyc]

I'm currently looking to get a new laptop as the old one I have is pretty old and slowing down. Since I'm beginning to learn how to code and program, I'm basing the new laptop's features on what I would need for programming.

If you can put an SSD in your old laptop and upgrade the ram I'd do just that. Putting an SSD in an old laptop is like adding 5-10 years to it. I had a beefy computer from 2008 I gave to my dad, upgraded the ram and put in an ssd and he still uses it in 2020.

If too complicated just listen to recommendations in this thread.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[csalvato]

This depends entirely on whether or not you prefer Windows over Mac.

In my circle, programming on a Windows machine is like heresy. Programming on a Windows machine sounds like my own personal version of hell.

But in other circles (i.e. .NET developers), Windows is the preferred development environment.

There's no wrong choice here.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Rawiri]

If you are more comfortable with Windows, go with that.

There's some benefit to Mac (it uses Unix and often people doing tutorials will be using it or Linux so you can just type what they do in the command line). In Windows you MAY have to look up a command or two since what they type won't be exactly the same.

Even if you decide you want to write an app for iPhone you still can on a windows computer - you would just use a virtual machine (which if you are going into programming you will eventually learn about).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Raoul Duke]

Dell XPS with a Ubuntu

Dell XPS Laptop Computers & 2-in-1 PCs | Dell USA

Explore Dell's XPS Laptop computers—where cutting-edge performance meets stunning design. Ideal for professionals seeking power and style.

www.dell.com

 

[csalvato]

So would you say that the advantage of being able to run Linux, windows, and OS X is greater than having better RAM, SSD presence & storage, and CPU performance?

My two options in my price range are:

Dell XPS 13: 16GB Ram, 516 SSD, 10th Generation Intel® Core i7, 4 processor cores
vs
MacBook Air: 8GB Ram, 256 SSD, 8th Generation Intel Core i5, 2 processor cores

it’s really a matter of preference at this point.

For beginner programming through to writing your first production app and beyond, the specs on a MacBook Air are fine.

You can get a used MacBook Pro for much cheaper and explore all options. I bought a 2015 with less than 75 power cycles on the battery for $500 on FB marketplace and use it to write production code for my business and collaborate with people on my team.

 

[Raoul Duke]

it’s really a matter of preference at this point.

For beginner programming through to writing your first production app and beyond, the specs on a MacBook Air are fine.

You can get a used Mac for much cheaper and explore all options. I bought a 2015 with less than 75 power cycles on the battery for $500 on FB marketplace and use it to write production code for my business and collaborate with people on my team.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

A lot of deals in that marketplace.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[eliquid]

Interesting, I appreciate your input!

I think I likely will go with the XPS as it seems like the specs are a lot better.

I suppose I'll just have to deal with any issues relating to not having a mac when I run into them.

You mentioned you were wanting to do a SaaS and why you needed the laptop ( to program ).

SaaS is hosted online/centrally hosted.

You don't need a Mac or Windows to worry about languages to code in. You don't need to develop a SaaS for Mac users or Windows users. It will be online and hosted.

Just buy a Windows machine and install the language you want to code in on it and start at it.

Also, the ASUS PRO 5440 has the same specs as the Dell XPS 13 you are looking at. Mine has the same 16gb Ram, 512 SSD, and 4 core i7 you are looking at in the Dell XPS 13.

There shouldn't be a worry over a Mac or Windows machine, the code you will develop will get FTP'd up to an online server anyways. You won't need to design for one or the other with a SaaS.

 

[ChrisV]

OK I can also recommend this. It is something @ChrisV recommended.

I own a "Shadow PC" as well. It is targeted at gamers, but it is a powerful PC that you can access from the weakest of laptops. Transform your device Into a Gaming PC!

I totally forgot about it, but it makes the Air totally viable as your only computer again. I seriously can't recommend the Shadow enough.

Cosign. Shadow is amazing. It's just one of those essential things like an iPhone or [insert your favorite thing here.]

You can seamlessly run MacOS and Windows in separate windows.

Why choose when you can have both for pretty much the same price?

However, I'm aware that with a pc you can't develop iOS/Mac apps and there's apparently better tools for Macs.

Even more reason to go with the Mac/Shadow combo. IMO Windows is terrible for coding.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[andrewsyc]

if you aren’t sure then the safer bet would be a Mac since Mac can run Linux, windows and OS X.

If you want to program and get a PC, I would suggest checking out Ubuntu Linux as a Windows alternative since most programming tutorials assume a Unix based OS like OS X or Linux.

@eliquid and this guy know what they are talking about. I would just go with a Mac, as long as you are hygienic about it (spill crumbs or water) it'll last a solid decade. It's the most versatile for development and if you ever decide to go iOS you're in the native environment

 

[picanha-guy]

If you're going with the MacBook. Please do yourself a favor and get the new (2020) MacBook and not the "old" (2019) one.

The big difference is the keyboard. The old "butterfly" keyboards are nice in the beginning but keys are getting stuck quite fast and then it's terrible typing on one. (I've got a 2018 MBP from my 9-5 job with the butterfly keyboard, and for my own business I'm definitely buying one with the new keyboard).


You can see the difference by looking at the left and right arrow keys. Left 2020, right 2019.
Buy the one without the full size arrow keys.

As for coding, I'm using Visual Studio Code, that works on both windows and Mac so just get what you are comfortable with. I would not settle for 8GB of RAM though, get 16GB.

And for hard drives 265GB is more than enough for coding. Not so much for audio or video work. But you can always buy external hard drives later. The internal SSD space is quite expensive at apple.

 

[srodrigo]

I'd get the Dell and install a user-friendly Linux distribution, specially given you want to code SaaS. Windows is a pain for that kind of things, and a Macbook Air will lack power. A Macbook Pro would be ideal, but if that's above your budget, Dell + Linux. There are even some XPS that come with Ubuntu preinstalled.

 

[picanha-guy]

I don't know about Geekbench, TBH.

The reasons why I say the Air will most likely lack power are (non-exhaustive list):

1. They historically lacked of power compared to a MBP.
2. MBPs have higher base CPU speeds.
3. MBPs have termal issues. I can imagine so does the Air if put under stress (haven't researched this though). This makes sense, as the thinner the body case, the more difficult is to dissipate the heat.

This article compares both: Dell XPS 13 (2020) vs. MacBook Air (2020): Which ultraportable wins?

But once we started our synthetic testing, the XPS 13 dominated with its 1.3-GHz Intel Core i7-1065G7 processor and 16GB of RAM. On the Geekbench 5.0 overall performance test, the XPS 13 hit 4,648 while the Air and its 1.1-GHz Intel Core i5-1030NG7 CPU and 8GB of RAM only reached 2,738. When we ran the HandBrake test, the XPS 13 transcoded a 4K video to 1080p in 15 minutes and 10 seconds while the Air completed the task in 27:10.

Also, I've seen a 2020 Air i7 on your screenshot? How is that possible? On the Apple website, there's only i3 and i5.

Having said that, I might just be speaking snake oil, as I haven't tried the Air. But I would personally never buy one for software development).

It can surely be used to start with though, and it depends on what tools you are using. Examples:

• Compiling Java? No way.
• NodeJS, Python or Ruby? Then, maybe yes.

2020 air i7: 13-inch MacBook Air - Space Gray (select the i7)

Good points. Especially about thermal issues, running a few node instances and the 2018 MBP will lift off

I'll be using nodeJS, typescript, python and a bit of PHP, no java.

It will be at least a few weeks before I buy the MacBook if I'm deciding to get the air I'll let you know how that works out.

 

[srodrigo]

2020 air i7: 13-inch MacBook Air - Space Gray (select the i7)

Lol, thanks. I didn't see that. They don't show it on the front page, just i3 and i5. I'm really surprised they managed to get some i7 in such a thin thing. But...

Good points. Especially about thermal issues, running a few node instances and the 2018 MBP will lift off

...yeah, I would be wary of thermal issues. It might be fine though, research and looking at reviews should clarify this.

I'll be using nodeJS, typescript, python and a bit of PHP, no java.

I've seen people coding JS with an old Macbook Air. I think that's silly, as time is more valuable than a few extra hundred bucks, but hey, it's possible.

It will be at least a few weeks before I buy the MacBook if I'm deciding to get the air I'll let you know how that works out.

Sure, I'll be interesting in knowing how it goes.

 

[OverByte]

What air did you use Xcode with?

I'm pretty sure it was a 2013 macbook air (it was a few months old at the time). Xcode did work but it got really sluggish with things like storyboards (interface builder), I also used blender on it for some basic 3d modelling and it worked but got choppy at times. It was definitely a workable computer and my first foray into using a Mac. Once I got it I was instantly converted from linux (I already didn't like windows) and never looked back.

Shortly after I got it I took a job offer as an iOS developer and was given a macbook pro 2013, the difference between that an the air was pretty huge in terms of display crispness (retina display is great), speed (especially in xcode) and it was just generally more pleasurable to use. The 15 vs 13 in screen was a big plus as well. I rarely actually use it without an external monitor but 15 inch is way better than 13 for me and it can actually be used as a second display when I have it on my desk.

I ended up buying a 2015 pro for myself shortly after (basically in 2015). Again for me I treat it as a tool and wanted the best tool. I haven't looked at the specs in a long time but the pro had quite a bit more RAM than the air offered which is an important consideration. Some of the IDEs (like Xcode) can be resource hogs and if are using Docker for some of your infrastructure this will chew up resources quickly. VSCode is a very light IDE so shouldn't be an issue by itself.

The air will likely work for you but it almost certainly will not be as good an experience as the pro if you are doing app dev, if doing basic web dev you may not notice a difference, if you are planning on building a SAAS with moderate-complex infrastructure then I would definitely go with the pro.

 

[lobo]

I program on a 2020 MacBook PRO. Would recommend the 16GB RAM Tbh

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[csalvato]

I'm pretty sure @LitaVK has made her purchase by now. If not, its taken her nearly a month to make a relatively trivial life decision, and she has bigger problems

 

[LitaVK]

Hey guys,

I'm currently looking to get a new laptop as the old one I have is pretty old and slowing down. Since I'm beginning to learn how to code and program, I'm basing the new laptop's features on what I would need for programming.

I've narrowed it down to the Dell XPS 13 and the MacBook Air as these fit my budget and seem to be highly recommended as both good laptops for beginners and professional programmers.

I'm leaning towards the XPS because I found one with 16GB Ram, 4 cores and 516 SSD storage at a decent price plus I'm not a huge fan of the MacOS and limited number of ports. However, I'm aware that with a pc you can't develop iOS/Mac apps and there's apparently better tools for Macs.

Then again, maybe I'm just overthinking it and really any laptop with the basic specs will be fine considering I'm just starting out with programming.

I'm hoping some of you experienced programmers out there could share your opinions and offer some advice - would be very much appreciated! Thanks in advance

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[LitaVK]

If you want a Mac as your only computer, I would take a look at the Macbook Pro.

Thanks for this recommendation!

 

[ShamanKing]

Apple products have proven to be rock solid. I use my air for everything school, stores, video editing, and even gaming. 6+ years still running right now.

 

[csalvato]

I'm actually already somewhat familiar with using a virtual machine

So within the VM I should be able to write code for users using MacOS? This is great news - thanks!

AFAIK it’s not possible to virtualize OSX... at least not easily.

Last I looked into that was several years ago though, and times do change.