Let's build your Mobile Web App!

[AgonI]

Hello all,

I am a new programmer who's just starting out, hence I decided to offer my unique service to all the members of the Fastlane forum, who have a good/great idea about a Mobile App but they don't have the money or the knowledge to build it.
I would like to JV with you and build the app. Here is the deal:

-I will charge a very small fee upfront. This will depend based on the complexity of the app (This fee will be there just to cover all the time I'll be wasting on the development part, at its lowest possible minimum)

-You will remain the owner of the app after it is developed. You keep 60% of the profits(and ownership), I keep 40% of the profits(and ownership), if there is any profit at all. ( I am open to negotiating this, based on the upfront fee).

How much is the upfront fee?
-I will quote the whole project based on a very low hourly fee. The upfront fee will be 30% of the quote. This is negotiable and we can play around with it, depending on the complexity of the app, and whether your idea is good or not.

How will I build it?
-I will be using jQuery Mobile | jQuery Mobile platform to build the app.

What Can I Build?
-Pretty much any Mobile WEB app that involves databases, ie an app will have features like, storing some type of data,having users/members, some search functions and stuff like that. Now notice I am saying WEB app. This automatically excludes GAMES. jQuery Mobile Examples - JQM Gallery Take a look here at some HUGE apps that have already been built on this platform. I will try my best to include as many advanced features as possible.

Why are we doing a WEB app?
Because it can be created in one platform, and then published in different platforms w/o having to write any extra code for each platform separately. Web Apps will be the future of Mobile and it's easy to see why. Please do some research on this if you are interested to know why.

What do you want from me?
-I will have to see whether it is worth spending so much of my time on developing your idea. I want to know your idea.I want to know:

• Is it going to fill a need?
• Is it a service/tool people will like to use?
• Is there a big enough market for it?
• Have you done any research around the idea?
• Do you have any special skills, like marketing, graphic design, etc?

Are you just trying to steal my idea?
I understand you might be thinking I am just trying to steal your idea, but believe me, I have tons of ideas myself and I don't know where to start first! I am currently developing two apps, both my ideas, which I think will be great and popular in the future.) Though, if you are still afraid that I will steal/copy your idea, we can sign some sort of contract(is it called NDA?) to protect your idea from being stolen. I'm open to that.

Where are you located?
I am from Saint Louis, MO. If there is anyone who is in the city, I would be happy to meet them in person to discuss your idea, if you prefer that. If not, then we can IM on Skype.

I hope the deal is fair to both of us. I spent more than an hour thinking how would this work and I tried to lay out as much info as possible. This means I am VERY serious about this and I would LOVE to JV with you, if I see your idea is good enough to make it possible for me to dedicated part of my life, and hopefully make it successful.

Please don't hesitate to ask any question. As I said, I am open to various ideas, so send me a PM and let's Make some Millions!

p.s. I will work maximum with 3 people. So don't wait too long before someone else grabs this opportunity from you!

 

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[theag]

I think you should post some references to make this look legit. I would never give up that much (if at all) equity though. Also, working with a novice programmer (and giving equity to him on top) sounds like a sure way to failure to me.

 

[AgonI]

I think you should post some references to make this look legit. I would never give up that much (if at all) equity though. Also, working with a novice programmer (and giving equity to him on top) sounds like a sure way to failure to me.

As I sad, I'm new to this and haven't built an app yet. I have created ecommerce stores though(and I can share one with whoever is interested, even though this has nothing to do with an app), but I'm confident I can build it, and I'm sure the outcome will be great, just as we want it.
In regards to the equity, that's actually a bigger risk for me than the person who's giving the idea. If the total cost is 3,000$, I'm taking 30% upfront, I am undervaluing myself and charging a very low /per hour/ development fee. What happens if I spend 100 hours on creating it, and we don't profit anything? I want to make sure that this won't happen though. And I will do as much work as you do in terms of marketing the app and making it successful. So we will be partners, and partners deserve to have same amount of equity.
And last, is it better to actually turn your idea in a product, or keep it for yourself and never develop it because you did not have 3,000$ right now to build it?

 

[Mike39]

The fee thing is ridiculous, you are basically pimping yourself on the forum and making it sounds nice, this is not Elance. Besides with no prior experience in web apps, nobody in their right mind is going to gamble a business idea and their money on the feeling that you are confident you can make an app. Plus what is this nonsense about $3000 bucks, is that how much you are charging, that plus a 40% equity stake, your a crook! I could go to oDesk, find an experienced and high quality developer in India and get an app made for $2,000 with no equity stake.

The cost of setting up an app should be no more than a couple hundred bucks for a developer, there are no other business costs. So you are offering a "favor" to us by charging us ridiculous prices and stealing 40% of our company, gee thanks your generosity is unheard of there bud :smxE:. And I would NEVER pay a developer 30% up front, that is not how things work.

My question to you is: Why not just develop you own app and keep 100%?

 

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[AgonI]

I am not sure if you have ever hired a developer to build something for you?
The 3,000$ was just an example. It will definitely not cost that much, unless it is very complicated.
Second, I was planning to charge 12-15$ per hour. Now go find me an Indian who will do that for you? Build you a mobile app for that much?It's not just a simple website, it is not as easy as you think. And I am taking only 30% of the whatever the quote is. And if you think I've asked for too much then you can post it on a freelance website and let's see all the crappy bids you get from people who can't even communicate with you properly.
The 40% is because I will be working on every other side of the app too(marketing, maintenance of the app(did you forget this?Do you know that your Indians will charge you 100$+ dollars every time you want to make a small change?), etc)

I am not going to keep justifying my offer. If no-one is interested, then I am okay with it. I just wanted to start out something with people who have almost no finances to invest, but they have a good idea and are willing to put up the work to make it happen.

Also, to answer your question. I am developing my apps too. I am not going to steal people's ideas. I said, I will sign a contract that I won't be doing that.
Oh, and suggest an offer that would make sense to you?

Also, one more thing. If you can find ONLY ONE developer who will do this for you, risk their time for a 40% equity in your app which could not make even 1$ profit, I will hire them NOW, myself. I've asked over 20 developers(mostly Indians) whether they would be open to something like this. ALL of them said it would be not worth their time because they want the cash instead of, what could be, 40% equity of an app worth 0$.
Also, every developer/company that I've dealt with, require you to pay 25% of the total on project confirmation. That is before they even start working on it. If you don't believe me, I can give you proofs from a project a friend of mine is financing.
edit: Regarding the experienced and high quality developer thing. If I can't build your app, I will say that to you before I even start working on it. I can guarantee that the app will look much better than when developed by an Indian, who will do extremely crappy graphics(UI) if you don't give them extra money.

Good luck!

 

[wade1mil]

You: Up front fee, $12-15 per hour (to learn), 30-40% equity.

Freelancer: No up front fee, $3-6 per hour (to learn), 0% equity.

The way I see this going down: I give you money up front for the opportunity to have my idea developed into a mobile app. You work 50-100 hours trying to figure out how to make the app I want built. In two months, you finally come to me and say you can't figure out how it's done and that I need to pay someone more experienced to finish the app. I go to said developer and give them your code and they quote me a price twice as much as starting from scratch and I scrap the idea.

And yes, you can get new programmers overseas that program web apps for only a few dollars per hour. That's because it takes them 10 hours to do something a good programmer can do in 30 minutes. I think you're going about this the wrong way. If you need $12-15 per hour, get a job and build your own app (and keep 100% equity) in your downtime.

 

[dknise]

I could go to oDesk, find an experienced and high quality developer in India and get an app made for $2,000 with no equity stake.

:smilielol:

Where? Being the only software developer on the forum who's actually worked for an Indian company, what developer is this? Because I have never seen a talented Indian developer with hard work ethic who's cheap.

Trust me... all of the talented and motivated Indian developers reject the culture, move to the United States, and end up working for Microsoft, Amazon, Google, or Apple making $150k+. There's a LOT of those guys and they're freaking awesome developers, but they get paid what they're worth.

@AgonI
I think you have a great and honorable idea that you're pitching to the forum. I think the problem stems from the upfront fee and then charging per hour for development, when you're also asking to be a near 50% stakeholder. So... after taking 30% of the quote and then the hourly wage, they could end up paying more than the original quote and it wasn't actually a bargain for them.

In starting a business, you are either an employee who gets paid upfront and takes no risk, or you do just as you say and put in hours of work with no guarantee that your work will pay off and reap the potential rewards after it is successful. Right now you're asking for both.

I definitely think there is a need for FREE development in exchange for equity from people starting out. There are people with no development skills and no marketing experience with ideas they want to try but they have no money. It sounds like you're a match made in heaven with them for a 50/50 where you get 50% to develop, they get 50% to market, blog, and manage.

There just isn't such a thing as getting a paycheck while you develop your product.

 

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[AgonI]

You: Up front fee, $12-15 per hour (to learn), 30-40% equity.

Freelancer: No up front fee, $3-6 per hour (to learn), 0% equity.

The way I see this going down: I give you money up front for the opportunity to have my idea developed into a mobile app. You work 50-100 hours trying to figure out how to make the app I want built. In two months, you finally come to me and say you can't figure out how it's done and that I need to pay someone more experienced to finish the app. I go to said developer and give them your code and they quote me a price twice as much as starting from scratch and I scrap the idea.

And yes, you can get new programmers overseas that program web apps for only a few dollars per hour. That's because it takes them 10 hours to do something a good programmer can do in 30 minutes. I think you're going about this the wrong way. If you need $12-15 per hour, get a job and build your own app (and keep 100% equity) in your downtime.

Hahaha I seriously laughed out loud when I read this. PLEASE find me a programmer who will do my Web App for 3-6$, I will give you an extra $ for each hour he/she works. And yes, I will wait 2 months if needed, Just find me a programmer who will do it for 3-6$/hour? A web app, fully functional? Do you realise this is not just an HTML website? 3-6$, you must have never dealt with a programmer before, otherwise you would not be saying this. For 3-6$, you can't even find an Indian to write you more than 2-3 short articles.

I don't need a job buddy. I have built 9 ecommerce stores in the last 40 days alone(each costing ~1000$). I am just looking for a great idea to work on and I trust members here do have them, but they might not have the funds.
I am going to let people judge this for themselves. If someone wants to work with me, that's great. If not, it's all right
And none of the negative things you are mentioning will happen, you seem too pesimitic about everything.

 

[dknise]

I don't need a job buddy. I have built 9 ecommerce stores in the last 40 days alone(each costing ~1000$). I am just looking for a great idea to work on and I trust members here do have them, but they might not have the funds.
I am going to let people judge this for themselves. If someone wants to work with me, that's great. If not, it's all right
And none of the negative things you are mentioning will happen, you seem too pesimitic about everything.

Easy to be optimistic when you're the one getting paid and it's not your money on the line.

If you've built 9 ecommerce stores, post them for validation.

 

[AgonI]

Easy to be optimistic when you're the one getting paid and it's not your money on the line.

If you've built 9 ecommerce stores, post them for validation.

Yeah, looks like I have to come up with something even better to remove all the doubts. Also, I am not charging an hourly wage on top of the upfront fee. I will give you a quote for the total project. Let's say that's 900$. I want only 30% of that upfront and that's it. No hourly wage afterwards.

Also, I am going to post only the last store that I built for an ecommerce platform called HighWire.
Shoes On-Line Store

I have to go now, will add more to this thread later.

 

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[wade1mil]

PLEASE find me a programmer who will do my Web App for 3-6$, I will give you an extra $ for each hour he/she works. And yes, I will wait 2 months if needed, Just find me a programmer who will do it for 3-6$/hour? A web app, fully functional?

I didn't want to go through all 33 pages of them on just one of the sites, but here is the list: Search results

Also, I use to program myself. I started programming when you were 4 years old. I have also hired 10-15 programmers online and haven't paid any more than $8 per hour. Only had one bad experience and didn't end up paying him anything.

 

[johnp]

Okay how about this. I'll make you an offer. If you do this then you can verify right here that you are a good app developer and get some bigger projects from people.

In have an app idea that I was never planning on acting on. It's simple enough. It deals with point of sale transactions, which can scale to the Millions. If you are good then you can build it fairly fast. I'm not going to offer money. You sre too much of a risk for me to put money on the line at thenmonment. If you build this then ill give you a 12 percent royaltee on all sales for life and a small percentage of ownership In the company.

Why should you do this? Because you can document right here about how you are a goo dev. This will be a great real life example and you will win over clients who here who need their apps built. I'll set up a sales team and get this thing profitable. As a result, you get paid for life. If we sell the business then you get paid for that as well.

What Will I get out of this? I wasn't planning on building this app because of the business model. It will either tank or become a nice passive income stream.

 

[theag]

Yeah, looks like I have to come up with something even better to remove all the doubts. Also, I am not charging an hourly wage on top of the upfront fee. I will give you a quote for the total project. Let's say that's 900$. I want only 30% of that upfront and that's it. No hourly wage afterwards.

Also, I am going to post only the last store that I built for an ecommerce platform called HighWire.
Shoes On-Line Store

I have to go now, will add more to this thread later.

LOL! You give us an ugly, empty and pre-installed e-commerce store as a reference for your skills? I can set sth like this up in 30seconds. I just completely stopped taking you serious.

 

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[dknise]

Yeah, looks like I have to come up with something even better to remove all the doubts. Also, I am not charging an hourly wage on top of the upfront fee. I will give you a quote for the total project. Let's say that's 900$. I want only 30% of that upfront and that's it. No hourly wage afterwards.

Also, I am going to post only the last store that I built for an ecommerce platform called HighWire.
Shoes On-Line Store

I have to go now, will add more to this thread later.

Woah woah woah woah woahhhh. Now I'm getting the feeling that you have no actual developer knowledge at ALL. Pre-paid drag and drop developer sites are for people who aren't developer's to do the stuff themselves. That doesn't make you a developer hahaha.

Killin me smalls! I was on your side!

 

[AgonI]

LOL! You give us an ugly, empty and pre-installed e-commerce store as a reference for your skills? I can set sth like this up in 30seconds. I just completely stopped taking you serious.

It's not a pre-installed theme buddy, it was build from scratch. See below

Woah woah woah woah woahhhh. Now I'm getting the feeling that you have no actual developer knowledge at ALL. Pre-paid drag and drop developer sites are for people who aren't developer's to do the stuff themselves. That doesn't make you a developer hahaha.

Killin me smalls! I was on your side!

OH my, you guys misunderstood me probably. I built the site FOR the platform itself. I did the HTML, CSS and JavaScript, plus implemented the site WITH the platform API(which runs on Apache Velocity). Built it from zero, it's not drag and drop. It was all BLANK, zero, nothing, NADA. Any member of this ecommerce platform Create Your Own Online Store, sell on eBay and sell on Facebook Can now use this theme and create their store with their product, its fully integrated with the platform. You probably thought I just chose the theme and added content to it LOL
Also, I am not looking to get anyone on my side here, did we start a war or something? I was just OFFERING something. Most of the people did not like the offer and I am okay with it. I thought I am offering something of value and I was being fair, but obviously many of you think differently.

 

[dknise]

OH my, you guys misunderstood me probably. I built the site FOR the platform itself. I did the HTML, CSS and JavaScript, plus implemented the site WITH the platform API(which runs on Apache Velocity). Built it from zero, it's not drag and drop. It was all BLANK, zero, nothing, NADA. Any member of this ecommerce platform Create Your Own Online Store, sell on eBay and sell on Facebook Can now use this theme and create their store with their product, its fully integrated with the platform. You probably thought I just chose the theme and added content to it LOL
Also, I am not looking to get anyone on my side here, did we start a war or something? I was just OFFERING something. Most of the people did not like the offer and I am okay with it. I thought I am offering something of value and I was being fair, but obviously many of you think differently.

Now that's what I like to hear! I think that's what everyone was looking for. Are you the guy the uses the template or makes it? And if you're the guy that makes it, you're the guy people want to be working with.



Little wisdom from MJ's book here... don't buy franchises, sell franchises. And that looks like you've done that well here, congrats.

 

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[AgonI]

I didn't want to go through all 33 pages of them on just one of the sites, but here is the list: Search results

Also, I use to program myself. I started programming when you were 4 years old. I have also hired 10-15 programmers online and haven't paid any more than $8 per hour. Only had one bad experience and didn't end up paying him anything.

I saw only a couple web developers there. Most of the 3-6$ freelancers were doing data entry, Project Manager, Keyword Research, SEO, SMM, SEM, Wordpress, Transcriber, Typist, Research, phones. The web developers were all 8-9$ and up.

Okay how about this. I'll make you an offer. If you do this then you can verify right here that you are a good app developer and get some bigger projects from people.

In have an app idea that I was never planning on acting on. It's simple enough. It deals with point of sale transactions, which can scale to the Millions. If you are good then you can build it fairly fast. I'm not going to offer money. You sre too much of a risk for me to put money on the line at thenmonment. If you build this then ill give you a 12 percent royaltee on all sales for life and a small percentage of ownership In the company.

Why should you do this? Because you can document right here about how you are a goo dev. This will be a great real life example and you will win over clients who here who need their apps built. I'll set up a sales team and get this thing profitable. As a result, you get paid for life. If we sell the business then you get paid for that as well.

What Will I get out of this? I wasn't planning on building this app because of the business model. It will either tank or become a nice passive income stream.

You would have to send me more details about the features the app will have. How is the app connected to the POS? Are we using any payment processor or anything like that?
Also, I will be doing my own app first since there is not many interested people to work with me. Once I'm done with it, I will document the whole process in a separate thread, and then we'll see what happens.

 

[AgonI]

Now that's what I like to hear! I think that's what everyone was looking for. Are you the guy the uses the template or makes it? And if you're the guy that makes it, you're the guy people want to be working with.



Little wisdom from MJ's book here... don't buy franchises, sell franchises. And that looks like you've done that well here, congrats.

Yeah I made it all from 0. One would have to be stupid to call themselves a developer for adding content to a ready-made theme.
I am not really interested to partner up with anyone after hearing so many complaints and negative thoughts from the members here. I did not know people are this much greedy until now You offer something of value, they want to eat you alive lol

Thanks by the way!

 

[Mike39]

I never said you were scamming anyone or stealing their ideas, I just think your justification on pricing is off.

Here's the gist of it:

1. I only pay developers cash, I (in general) don't do equity.

2. If I were to pay cash, I would expect to pay 2k for a average application. That is 2k and no equity whatsoever, you are asking for 40% plus x,xxx (with 30% upfront), see where someone could take that as a bit greedy.

3. If I paid the 2k, that cash then goes into a escrow service so I don't loose my money and the developer knows he/she will get paid if the job gets done. I NEVER pay ANY cash up front, that is a huge red flag for me in any circumstance

4. I pay more for the more experienced a developers is. You have no portfolio and no prior success (or experience in general), that means your time is valued at a lesser price than a more experienced persons

Now go find me an Indian who will do that for you? Build you a mobile app for that much?It's not just a simple website, it is not as easy as you think.

5. I pay in fixed prices, ensures the devs don't mess around.

6. I hired a dev out in Michigan and paid them $15 an hour...

7. I understand being a dev is not a glamorous profession, I know it is not easy, but you made the choice to pursue it, not me

Dude, I am not saying you are here to steal ideas or rip people off, I just want you to realize that your pricing structure was off and needed some major refining. If you come here offering discounted pricing I can understand, but if you come on the forum and post standard or above standard pricing, that is not right. I hope you can get something worked out with someone

 

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[dknise]

7. I understand being a dev is not a glamorous profession, I know it is not easy, but you made the choice to pursue it, not me

I have the power to sit down at my computer, type, and create something of value. I don't have to depend on the quality of others and the only limitations are my own.

When combined with entrepreneurship, sounds like the most glamorous profession in the world to me!

 

[AgonI]

you are asking for 40% plus x,xxx (with 30% upfront), see where someone could take that as a bit greedy.

Obviously you are getting me wrong. I was asking 30% of my quote, which isn't always x,xxx. It could be 50$ if I quoted someone for 150$.
The 40% is because I will be your partner in everything not just the development part. I will do marketing as much as you do, I will invest in advertising the app as much as you do, etc. Thanks anyways. Looks like it's better to keep things simple. You either have ALL the money to build it, or you will keep the idea for yourself and never implement/develop it.

 

[AgonI]

I have the power to sit down at my computer, type, and create something of value. I don't have to depend on the quality of others and the only limitations are my own.

When combined with entrepreneurship, sounds like the most glamorous profession in the world to me!

I definitely agree with you. Being a developer is VERY enjoyable, you know that with a good idea, you can become a millionaire w/o having to risk any money initially, because you can BUILD it on your own.

 

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[thinslicer]

Hey Agon,

I actually think you have good intentions that are misunderstood, but even so I would still have reservations before diving in to arrangements like these, everybody and their moms have been scammed and burned too many times to just trust anybody these days, especially over the internet. I don't claim to know the standards of pricing quotes and don't know a lot about the numbers of app development, but it seems to me that the "deal" you are offering is best done with somebody who trust you greatly and vice versa, so maybe in-person deals. You can find student entrepreneurs in your city I'm sure, start with meetup.com, your local universities, and entrepreneur organizations. Since you seem to be an aspiring developer entrepreneur, find someone who's good at marketing and designing. Correct me if Im wrong, but what you really looking for is a partner to start one project with, and with the intention of starting many more later, so an app company if you will. Well, TMF book states that partners (equity shares) are something to be very careful with so I understand the replies.

Don't take offense to these seemingly dismissive comments, they are reality, you are getting a glimpse of the real world market, it's tough out there my friend (to me they are actually helpful). Even if you would have said you will work for free, somebody would come up with something similar to say, use it for motivation and prove us wrong!! Show us your app when it's done, you got my support and 99 cents lol. But yeah, if you show the forum your finished app and we like it, Im sure people will fight to work with you, maybe even for an above-fair price. Build it, and they will come...if it's good.

Best.

 

[AgonI]

Hi thinslicer,

I appreciate your comments

I am definitely coming back with my app once it's completed(~1 month or so). Hopefully it will be a huge success as I'm expecting from all the market reasearch I've done. The market for my app is really big and it should be a great experience for me as a beginner. Best of luck to you, and thanks for the kind comments. Looking forward to work with people with the same ideology like yours.

Agon

 

[andviv]

OK, I don't get it...

Well, kinda.

I see threads here ALL THE TIME with people asking for a developer that builds the app in exchange of equity because the person with the idea can't afford a developer.

And I have not seen a real offer to work something out with the OP who offered something that sounded very similar to what some people request all the time.

I thought, when I first read it, that I would see a lot of the people with ideas coming here to negotiate a deal with this new developer.

The ones that are developers and/or have done apps with free lancers don't like this arraignment, but still, I was expecting a lot of people jumping at this if they really believe in their idea.

 

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[AgonI]

Yeah, that's why I actually offered this type of deal, because I saw it was requested in a few other threads.
But I will build the current app I am working on and then come back to show them as references. Who knows, by then I might not need new partners if it becomes successful as I am expecting it to be lol

 

[andviv]

Who knows, by then I might not need new partners if it becomes successful as I am expecting it to be lol

Great idea.

Also, why don't simply create an app and publish it to the marketplace as a demo of what you can do?

Nothing too fancy, spend a week or two, make it as a demo. Of course, a free app, but let your potential customers see what you really can do.

 

[Layna]

Hi Agon,

Sorry I missed your post yesterday. I have an idea for an app that I'd like to run by you. The functionality I want may be pretty complicated, but if it sounds interesting and feasible, and we agree on the terms, you may be just the right person to work with. If you're here, I'm betting your head's in the same place mine is and we can both benefit.

I live in Kansas City and while I don't come to St. Louis often, it wouldn't be too hard for us to meet at some point if we do decide to work together.

Let me know if you're still interested in working with someone else.

Layna

 

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[AgonI]

Layna ,will shoot you a pm in a couple of days when I get some more free time. Right now I' extremely busy, I'm just letting you know I'm constantly watching over this thread. Will def. contact you and we can chat about your idea in details.

Agon

 

[andyhaus44]

Hello all,

Where are you located?
I am from Saint Louis, MO. If there is anyone who is in the city, I would be happy to meet them in person to discuss your idea, if you prefer that. If not, then we can IM on Skype.


Hi, I am from St. Louis, MO too.. Would you be interested in starting a STL Fastlane group?