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Lambs being sent to the slaughterhouse

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MJ DeMarco

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I know Chris (Piranha) has met Jim Cramer and has said positive things about him, but this guy is sending his own lambs to slaughter and anyone that listens to this nut-job deserves to lose money.

On some other forums I have been noted to say "Whatever Jim Cramer is buying, I'm selling" -- Jim Cramer tells me what DUMB MONEY is doing -- if you follow dumb money, they lose their shirts most of the time.

Folks, you should not be taking investment advice from a guy on TV. You need to EDUCATE YOURSELF about the stock market and have your own plan for stockpicking. If Jim Cramer is your "investment plan", I'm sorry, but you need your head examined. This guy is the SUZIE ORMAN of the stock market.

If you visit the Yahoo Message boards, you see post after post about people who have lost their shirts listening to Cramer. For example, here's one:

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_U/threadview?m=tm&bn=26926&tid=21282&mid=21282&tof=4&rt=2&frt=1&off=1

Bottomline .... educate yourself and quit listening to guys on CNBC and TV. They could care less if you lose $100K in one day.

Peace out
~ MJ
 

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tbsells

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Jul 27, 2007
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Good Post MJ. Especially the part about EDUCATE YOURSELF. This is very closely related to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY which is not popular in our culture. People like the easy way and that usually leads to trouble. As far as stocks go, I know I'm not informed enough to be good at picking individual stocks so I don't do it. If I'm going to gamble I prefer blackjack. It never crossed my mind to follow some TV guru. I have seen the show and I think Cramer does caution people to do their own research, but many are too lazy I'm sure.
 

kimberland

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Jul 25, 2007
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The issue that I have with Cramer is the same with most "experts".
He covers the big name stocks
which frankly don't have a lot of opp left in them
for the small investor.
There's no margin of safety.

However, what I do use the phone in shows for
are company names to investigate.
That's where I get most of the "leads" for my fun portfolio.
For example:
When a certain ice company I love bought a U.S. competitor,
it made the news
and someone phoned in to ask about it.
Of course, the fund manager said it was too risky
but I looked into it
and didn't think it was risky at all
(the short term distribution might have been at risk
but that would have been offset by growth in net book value).

The other issue with those shows
is that they talk about only one side of the equation.
They'll say buy but won't tell you when to sell.
You only make money when you know both.
 

JesseO

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Jul 25, 2007
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I once heard that if you were to have bought every stock that Cramer recommended, your investments would do worse than the market average. Worse than average on a slow money vehicle doesn't sound too great to me. He's fun to watch though, lots of movement :p
 

hakrjak

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LOL -- I hate Suzie Orman.... Anytime anybody tells me that she's some great financial planning genius, I almost die from fits of laughter.

Pay off your house early? Save 6 months of pay in a savings account? Give me a break lady....

Cramer is a joke too -- I never liked him from the get go when his big IPO "TheStreet.Com" went broke almost immediately in the dot com boom.. I see it's back now and doing better, but whatever... He also pissed me off big time last night by playing a big role in blaming Gene Simmons for the loss on the Apprentice... what a joke!:iamwithstupid:

- Hakrjak
 

shummer

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Jan 19, 2008
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Wow. I checked out that link. It's pretty scary how quickly wealth can be lost. We all work hard for our money, and it's important to keep it, and make it work hard for you. Without proper research and understanding of how equities can move up or down, you are shooting yourself in the foot.
 

RAiMA

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Good post :) I normally have people asking me for a stock tip and I always steer them towards getitng self educated.

If Jim Cramer is your "investment plan", I'm sorry, but you need your head examined. This guy is the SUZIE ORMAN of the stock market.
Gonna use this analogy in some form for the future. Love how it's brutally honest and simple :thumbsup:
 

WheelsRCool

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Aug 12, 2007
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I LOST $120K BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TO BUY THIS FUKING STOCK, I'M COMING TO GET YOU.
:dupe: :nopity: :eek:wned: :rofl: :D :rofl: :D

WHO THE HECK SEES A GUY ON TV SAY TO INVEST IN A STOCK AND THEN RISKS $120K IN IT!?

It's one thing if it's a small amount of money, but if it's $120K, JEEZ, DO YOUR RESEARCH or you deserve what's coming to you.

I can see if it's like a grandmother who risked a few hundred or maybe a few thousand dollars, and learned her lesson, we all make mistakes, but $120K, you'd think people would be smarter.

I wonder how this person even got to be financially successful enough to risk $120K if they were stupid or ignorant enough to listen to a guy on TV:coco:
 

Rawr

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We discussed this on LVS board - he told everyone to sell all casino stock - and we raved "BUY NOW" - very next day it goes up 2%.

Once again - if the advice is available to a huge number of people at the same time think about what your odds are


But you know -we all probably were at a point where we thought advice like Suze or Cramer was good - before we were educated.

By the way, if anyone listened to Cramer about hedge funds controlling stock prices and how they do it - it is scary how little power an average investor has.
 

Rawr

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What I was talking about is hedge funds calling news companies with alert tips, then pre playing the market. Don't know how often this happens but it sounded messed up
 

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piranha526

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Aug 20, 2007
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I know Chris (Piranha) has met Jim Cramer and has said positive things about him, but this guy is sending his own lambs to slaughter and anyone that listens to this nut-job deserves to lose money.

On some other forums I have been noted to say "Whatever Jim Cramer is buying, I'm selling" -- Jim Cramer tells me what DUMB MONEY is doing -- if you follow dumb money, they lose their shirts most of the time.

Folks, you should not be taking investment advice from a guy on TV. You need to EDUCATE YOURSELF about the stock market and have your own plan for stockpicking. If Jim Cramer is your "investment plan", I'm sorry, but you need your head examined. This guy is the SUZIE ORMAN of the stock market.

If you visit the Yahoo Message boards, you see post after post about people who have lost their shirts listening to Cramer. For example, here's one:

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_U/threadview?m=tm&bn=26926&tid=21282&mid=21282&tof=4&rt=2&frt=1&off=1

Bottomline .... educate yourself and quit listening to guys on CNBC and TV. They could care less if you lose $100K in one day.

Peace out
~ MJ
MJ,
The man made millions in the market prior to TV but I would NEVER listen to him now. He is a nut on TV - nothing like he is behind closed doors or cameras I should say.

I do not recommend his show or any of his books (you won't find links on my site either).

Your thread title is perfect for his followers. :thumbsup:
 

hakrjak

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Sep 15, 2007
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Unless you have inside information, investing in the stock market is barely 1 step above gambling it in a casino.

Investing your money into your own business, where you ultimately control your destiny and profits is so superior to blowing it on worthless stocks.

- Hakrjak
 

hakrjak

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Very ignorant statements! I'll keep it at that.
Tell that to the millions of people who are going to lose a lot of money when the stock market opens in the morning. :)

I know Baccarat players who create fancy charts and analyze trends as well. The only difference between those guys and day traders is that the Baccarat players admit that they're gambling. :banana:

- Hakrjak
 

piranha526

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Aug 20, 2007
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Tell that to the millions of people who are going to lose a lot of money when the stock market opens in the morning. :)

I know Baccarat players who create fancy charts and analyze trends as well. The only difference between those guys and day traders is that the Baccarat players admit that they're gambling. :banana:

- Hakrjak
So what do I say to my short positions in the morning? And the thousands of others that have been short for weeks?

Just curious! :eusa_naughty:
 

JScott

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Unless you have inside information, investing in the stock market is barely 1 step above gambling it in a casino.

Investing your money into your own business, where you ultimately control your destiny and profits is so superior to blowing it on worthless stocks.
Instead of making obviously inflammatory statements like this -- but to still get your point across -- perhaps you should consider mentioning *why* you think investing in the stock market is nothing short of gambling?

Is it because you believe the market is so efficient that all information is already built in? Is it because you think that commissions offset any reasonable gains you can accomplish? Is it because you think the markets are irrational, and trying to predict them is just a crapshoot?

If you tell us why you believe something, perhaps we can have a constructive discussion about whether that belief can be supported with evidence one way or the other. In that way, maybe we can actually learn something as opposed to just hearing about various people's personal beliefs and opinions (all of which may or may not be true).

Just a thought... :)
 

phlgirl

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You are blaming the investment, Hakrjak. Although, at times, it would be nice to think otherwise - the investment is never at fault. It is always the responsibility of the investor.

I think you know this.

Unfortunately, quite a few people have been told that they should invest a certain way. They are often either not given the proper direction or they choose not to partake in the research which is necessary for ANY investment. An investment into any company, big or small, requires ample research and understanding of risk. By making the investment, you assume the risk. Otherwise, you have no business investing.

There are many, many people who have taken the time to educate themselves and are truly skilled in the analysis of ‘paper assets’. (For me, it’s too confusing! I like it simple.) The rest of the population are either gambling or still kidding themselves that they have done enough research.
 
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MJ DeMarco

MJ DeMarco

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The people who are short are gonna make a lot of $$$. More money is made in bear markets than in bulls. FEAR is a stronger emotion than GREED hence the greater opportunities for profit.
 

Rawr

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I was looking at some bear funds today to buy tomorrow.

Can anyone recommend some short term (3-6 months) no load or low fee without a huge starting investment?

Or is it better to just short QQQQ?
 

hakrjak

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So what do I say to my short positions in the morning? And the thousands of others that have been short for weeks?

Just curious! :eusa_naughty:
I'd say it's a bet... A good bet, but still a bet (And with unlimited risk!). Depending on when you sold short this morning, the Fed Rate Cut has already paired the losses of the Dow, so I'm sure some short positions lost money today.

When playing Baccarat you can bet on the Player (Long) or the Banker (Short)... In craps you can bet on the Pass (Long), or the Don't Pass (Short). So telling me that you can make money in a hot or down market doesn't qualify the stock market as an investment. I can make money in Vegas on a hot or cold table too.:smx7:

- Hakrjak
 

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Edge

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I was looking at some bear funds today to buy tomorrow.

Can anyone recommend some short term (3-6 months) no load or low fee without a huge starting investment?

Or is it better to just short QQQQ?
Check out some of the ultra short ETFs - TWM, SDS, QID, FXP. I've been trading them some lately, pretty good liquidity.
 

piranha526

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Aug 20, 2007
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I'd say it's a bet... A good bet, but still a bet (And with unlimited risk!). Depending on when you sold short this morning, the Fed Rate Cut has already paired the losses of the Dow, so I'm sure some short positions lost money today.

When playing Baccarat you can bet on the Player (Long) or the Banker (Short)... In craps you can bet on the Pass (Long), or the Don't Pass (Short). So telling me that you can make money in a hot or down market doesn't qualify the stock market as an investment. I can make money in Vegas on a hot or cold table too.:smx7:

- Hakrjak
Let’s straighten out a few misconceptions you have:
First; trading is a risk/ reward business that can be and is profitable to the professionals that establish winning expectancies.
It is also a loser’s game for gamblers that don’t understand expectancy (98-99% of all traders so you do have an argument, somewhat).

Second, the games you keep mentioning at the casino are for gamblers. I don’t play them. I only play poker at a casino because that too has risk/ reward expectancies that can make the professional a consistent winner over time.

Net results are what traders and poker players look for to be profitable.

Baccarat and craps are for suckers with the odds in the casino’s favor (proven mathematical fact). Pure gambling!

Poker and Trading can be profitable and is, proven every day, week, year, decade, century and generation by the professionals that understand the expectancies (risk/ reward). The subject itself can be explained here but I wouldn’t waste my time because I already know you have not educated yourself on them at this point in time. Until you do, I would advise to stop talking out of your a**. This forum is not meant for that. :eusa_naughty:
 

Rawr

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Check out some of the ultra short ETFs - TWM, SDS, QID, FXP. I've been trading them some lately, pretty good liquidity.
Nice gains on TWM in the last month!! I'll look into it.

Rep+
 

kimberland

Bronze Contributor
Jul 25, 2007
825
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Unless you have inside information, investing in the stock market is barely 1 step above gambling it in a casino.

Investing your money into your own business, where you ultimately control your destiny and profits is so superior to blowing it on worthless stocks.

- Hakrjak
If I had a penny for every time I heard this.

I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box.
If I can make money on stocks,
anyone can (at least long term).

Is there risk?
Of course.
Simply attending toilet u is a risk
(did you know that the bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house?).
But it is manageable risk
and if you manage it enough,
you can get it down to pretty much zero.

I bought a REIT yesterday during the Cdn drop.
I bought it at book value (adjusted for airy fairy stuff).
It distributes 14% annually (cash flows a lot more).
It has very little debt (no subprime mess for me).
Is this investment risky?
I guess.
But combine it with 3 other similar investments
and my risk gets darn low.
 

Rawr

Gold Contributor
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Let’s straighten out a few misconceptions you have:
First; trading is a risk/ reward business that can be and is profitable to the professionals that establish winning expectancies.
It is also a loser’s game for gamblers that don’t understand expectancy (98-99% of all traders so you do have an argument, somewhat).

Second, the games you keep mentioning at the casino are for gamblers. I don’t play them. I only play poker at a casino because that too has risk/ reward expectancies that can make the professional a consistent winner over time.

Net results are what traders and poker players look for to be profitable.

Baccarat and craps are for suckers with the odds in the casino’s favor (proven mathematical fact). Pure gambling!

Poker and Trading can be profitable and is, proven every day, week, year, decade, century and generation by the professionals that understand the expectancies (risk/ reward). The subject itself can be explained here but I wouldn’t waste my time because I already know you have not educated yourself on them at this point in time. Until you do, I would advise to stop talking out of your a**. This forum is not meant for that. :eusa_naughty:
I feel you are little quick in your judgment. All games are in casino's favor at all times - that's the juice they make on each bet - hence it doesn't matter to casinos what you play, as long as you do. Then we have the stockmarket with that same juice - the difference between bid/ask and then a brokerage fee on top of this. Craps and BJ are some of the best odds in the casino by the way.

Given that the whole spiel is a zero sum game anyway, somebody out there has to lose money for the professionals to prove you right every day, week, year. So for an average investor, things might look very similar to the view of an average gambler.
 

tbsells

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Jul 27, 2007
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As dumb as this might sound I think both Hakrjak and Piranha are right. I personally am like Hakrjak, to me its just a gamble. Its a game I have no business playing. I don't know the rules, the strategies, the terminology, not much at all. Just enough to know its not for me because I don't know how to play. If I had Piranha's knowledge, experience, access to high quality research AND the wisdom to know how to interpret it, then I would be comfortable investing. To some its a gamble, to others its a business. Much like anything else, it depends on what you know.
 

hakrjak

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Baccarat and craps are for suckers with the odds in the casino’s favor (proven mathematical fact). Pure gambling!
For my example, I chose the 2 games in the casino that are the best for giving you the opportunity to bet for the player, or with the casino.

Yes, if you bet on the banker or player 100% of your bets, the casino will grind you out overtime. Same thing if you bet on the Pass line 100% in Craps. The winning strategies gamblers use are to switch back and forth between the Player & Banker in Baccarat, and the Pass & Don't Pass in Craps. If you can correctly identify trends, and move your bets appropriately -- you can increase the edge to your favor the majority of your sessions.

With all of that said -- I'm just saying, that I would personally not like to risk a substantial amount of my net worth in something that I have little control over, where the risks are about the same as gambling in a casino. I'd rather invest that money into a business I have a hand in managing, or a company I own - where I can determine my own destiny and returns.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak
 

JScott

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With all of that said -- I'm just saying, that I would personally not like to risk a substantial amount of my net worth in something that I have little control over, where the risks are about the same as gambling in a casino.
I think Chris' analogy to poker is a good one...

Not all bets made in a casino are equal, and poker is one of the few bets where you are not playing against the house -- you're just paying the house a fee to host the game. The stock market is very similar -- you're not playing against the house, but you do pay a commission to be in the game.

And much like poker, investing in the market is a zero-sum game, minus the commission to the house. If you are a smart player/trader, and can earn enough to beat the rake, you can make money long-term.

There are millions of poker players out there who think poker is no different than craps or slot machines; then there are the 1-2% of poker players who earn a living playing the game because of the misconceptions of the other 98-99%.

Stock trading is no different.
 

hakrjak

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And much like poker, investing in the market is a zero-sum game, minus the commission to the house. If you are a smart player/trader, and can earn enough to beat the rake, you can make money long-term.
Don't forget that the rake in the Stock Market also includes taxes, on top of the commissions you pay. These can make a good year turn "Just ok" really quick... and when you lose, there is only so much you can write off each year.

Yes, you could say that Poker & Sports Betting are skill games for sure. I still know a lot of guys who gamble at Poker, because they claim it's a skill game -- and then proceed to lose their asses, because they don't know what they're doing in the end :) haha... Sports betting is probably a better analogy though, because you are so reliant on research & information.... And if you have inside information, about an injury for example -- You can really clean up.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak
 

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