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REAL ESTATE Just attended a REI seminar. your thoughts?

ChrisS417

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Sep 24, 2007
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It was a long 3 day weekend for me attending a $500 seminar via Rich Dad Poor Dad company. Turned into a sales pitch for "Advanced Trainings" ranging in cost from $8000-$50000! The trainings were offered by the Wealth Intelligence Academy. The seminar was given by a guy named Alan Swails. He all but guaranteed success if one were to attend these courses. Needless to say I was skeptical so I put Alan Swails in google and the first two links have some pretty scary reviews. I was pretty sold on RDPD being a good honest company, but then hearing such negative reviews about these people they are closely associated with makes me a bit disappointed.

Has anyone else seen, heard about, or been to this?

Or do you have any other thoughts?

Thanks
Chris
 

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czach41

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Hi Chris.
As it turns out, I will be attending the same three day training session offered by RichDad company. My buddy and I were able to get in for $250 each. However, one of my main concerns is whether or not they will actually be teaching me the necessary skills and knowledge needed to go out and make my first deal. I am worried that it is just another expensive sales pitch though. I do not mean to hijack your thread, but could you elaborate a little bit on whether you thought the training was beneficial or ultimately a sales ploy?
Thanks a bunch Chris.
- Cody
 

hakrjak

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The whole Rich Dad brand is built around upselling. Don't get me wrong -- I love Kiyosaki's books, and have learned a lot from them -- but you can't read them without getting a sales pitch for his next book, his boardgame, his seminars, other people's books and seminars who are operating under the Rich Dad brand, etc etc....

I applaud Kiyosaki's success, because he's truly made an art out of upselling people -- The man is an absolute expert at it. Reminds me a lot of Bill Gouldd before Equinox International got folded up by the FTC in the late 90's.

- Hakrjak
 
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ChrisS417

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czach:

Unfortunately you will not leave this seminar with the tools necessary to go out and make a deal unless you already know a whole lot going in. However they will give you a few good nuggets of information, but no concrete money making how-to except for spend at least $8000 and then we'll teach you exactly how-to do it.

On the first day your instructor will tell you to go out and call your credit card company and get your limit raised and interest lowered. Then on the second day they pitch you the sale and price of the course. He will use the sales tactic of creating a sense of urgency in order to get you to sign up for the on-site only half off price for the courses. Sound familiar? He'll say they're running out of the $1500 software you get that looks like a high schooler programed it.

In essence you pay for an infomercial. But hey I didn't make the decision to "go forward in my life" so I'm just a dummy on the left side of the quadrant. Be careful and if you feel that it is a little bogus ask Alan Swails to type his name Google, click on the very first search result, and start reading. I'm not saying that Google is a judgment of character, I just know that I wouldn't want a discussion of the class I teach being a scam to show up when my name is typed in a search engine.

Put them on the spot and see what happens.
Best of luck,

Chris
 

NoMoneyDown

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Find your local REI club, join it, and ask a lot of questions. You'll probably get 100x the info for 1/10,000ths the price.
 

yveskleinsky

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You will never learn everything you need to know to move forward from a seminar. They are designed to sell you additional projects, not give you knowlege to move forward. ...Not to say that the info gained from certain books or tapes they are selling is all bad there are just (generally) cheaper and better ways of getting the same thing. Exhast all of your free resources first before you jump into $50k seminars. ...I was sorely disappointed in the seminar when I went.

...I had a whole post about this on the RD site: http://forum.richdad.com/forums/fb.asp?m=601378&key=whitney
 
Oct 4, 2007
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i just did the same thing here in chicago last week the class was good for me because i did learn something but it still not enough for me to jump out there in the realestate game like they were talking i did not sign up for the other course's if i had that kind of money then i would have enought to do a realestate deal
 

MJ DeMarco

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Hmmmm....

200 people X $20,000 seminars = $400,000 earned FAST.

Sounds like RK has tapped the nuts-n-bolts of a Fastlane plan.

Always a great question that exposes these seminars for what they are ....

Are you in the Fastlane? Or apart of someone's Fastlane plan?

The tactic of getting you to increase your credit line is really low rent and hypocritical.

While I won't question the quality of the education, I will outwardly puke at the price considering $200 in books at Amazon.com can get you the same thing.
 

czach41

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I appreciate the feedback. I have been reading many books the past two years, including: RDPD, How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie, Think & Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, The Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller, The Traveler's Gift by Andy Andrews. I am in the process of reading two others right now which focus more on business and entrepreneuring. However, aside from the textbooks, I have spent what seems like millions of hours pouring over such websites as reiclub.com, creonline.com, the Richdad forums, and now this. I understand and agree that $200 at amazon.com can go a long way. I felt that maybe this seminar was the next step I could take.
I have already targeted a REI club which meets once a month here in Northern Colorado. Once I get my car fixed, I will be going to the monthly meeting in the human form of a sponge :)
 

Bilgefisher

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czach, which REI club are you talking about. There is only one that I am aware of in Fort Collins area. They have a $100+/yr membership and the last two monthly meetings have been canceled.
 

randallg99

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I appreciate the feedback. I have been reading many books the past two years, including: RDPD, How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie, Think & Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, The Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller, The Traveler's Gift by Andy Andrews. I am in the process of reading two others right now which focus more on business and entrepreneuring. However, aside from the textbooks, I have spent what seems like millions of hours pouring over such websites as reiclub.com, creonline.com, the Richdad forums, and now this. I understand and agree that $200 at amazon.com can go a long way. I felt that maybe this seminar was the next step I could take.
I have already targeted a REI club which meets once a month here in Northern Colorado. Once I get my car fixed, I will be going to the monthly meeting in the human form of a sponge :)

Now that you have read at least some of the most important business books that every person on this forum should have read at least once (I put them in bold in your text), what more do you expect from a BS seminar? to learn how to sign an offer?

come on...
 

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reipro

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This is something that makes me sick. These guys are doing nothing but taking your money. They give very little in return. Please ask them the next time that you see one of these seminars what there gurantee is? They will be speachless!!! Ask them to gurantee that you will make your money back over the next 12 months or they will refund your training fee less the travel costs. We have always done this, now it puts both of us in the same boat rowing the same direction.
 

AroundTheWorld

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I appreciate the feedback. I have been reading many books the past two years, including: RDPD, How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie, Think & Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, The Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller, The Traveler's Gift by Andy Andrews. I am in the process of reading two others right now which focus more on business and entrepreneuring. However, aside from the textbooks, I have spent what seems like millions of hours pouring over such websites as reiclub.com, creonline.com, the Richdad forums, and now this. I understand and agree that $200 at amazon.com can go a long way. I felt that maybe this seminar was the next step I could take.
I have already targeted a REI club which meets once a month here in Northern Colorado. Once I get my car fixed, I will be going to the monthly meeting in the human form of a sponge :)


Hmm. I bold the same book but for a very different reason.

I don't want to learn how to manipulate people for my own gain. I would rather let my values guide me - and my relationships.
Manipulating others will come back to bite you someday.
 

czach41

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Now that you have read at least some of the most important business books that every person on this forum should have read at least once (I put them in bold in your text), what more do you expect from a BS seminar? to learn how to sign an offer?

come on...
First of all randall, books like TNGR and How To Win Friends & Influence people, do not teach me specifics about real estate do they?
Considering that I am seeking knowledge in REI, I figured a seminar where I could talk to and interact with succesful people in REI would be a good thing. My bad for thinking that.
What I am looking for is specifics. For example, it would be great to see one of their every steps in a shortsale deal they did. As a noobie who hasn't done his first deal, but read a few books, I know that I do not know all of the specifics. What lawyers do I talk to and for what? What are the exact methods of doing a shortsale, foreclosure, rent to own, etc. I am not familiar with a lot of that paperwork and legal jargon, thus, I figured for $250 I would gain more specific knowledge of doing these deals, more confidence to get out and do it, and perhaps rubbed a few shoulders with future investors.
 

MJ DeMarco

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First of all randall, books like TNGR and How To Win Friends & Influence people, do not teach me specifics about real estate do they?
Considering that I am seeking knowledge in REI, I figured a seminar where I could talk to and interact with succesful people in REI would be a good thing. My bad for thinking that.
What I am looking for is specifics. For example, it would be great to see one of their every steps in a shortsale deal they did. As a noobie who hasn't done his first deal, but read a few books, I know that I do not know all of the specifics. What lawyers do I talk to and for what? What are the exact methods of doing a shortsale, foreclosure, rent to own, etc. I am not familiar with a lot of that paperwork and legal jargon, thus, I figured for $250 I would gain more specific knowledge of doing these deals, more confidence to get out and do it, and perhaps rubbed a few shoulders with future investors.
For $250, you paid for the privilege to be upsold into a more expensive seminar. Welcome to someone else's Fastlane plan. :fastlane:
 

Frankjxx

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I suggest you spend your time & money finding a great mentor...How?

Just focus on what sector / area you want to become wealthy in and look for someone

who's already making money there.

Example:
Years ago after graduating from the school of hard knocks in residential flipping/ rehabbing and landlording I wanted to go to the next level. I focused on multifamily and started hitting the road 2x aweek talking to property managers , landlords and tenants. I soon realized this is a totally different game from single family & condos so I focused on looking for experienced landlords.

I asked lots of questions and soon I met a landlord/investor with 1500 units. For 6 yrs he was my mentor and gave me direction when I was totally blinded by my emotions. I learned more from just doing it and his advice than any seminar I ever attended...(Unfortunately he passed away this summer)

Good Luck
 

yveskleinsky

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A seminar is designed to give you an overview of what's out there. You will not learn anything step-by-step. The books you've been reading fall under the self-development category and not REI. If you want to learn REI, study REI. ...Here are some ideas:

1. Put an ad in the paper saying you'll trade sweat for knowledge.
2. Get you RE license and start working- at least you'll learn sales and about the market.
3. Find an REI club of any kind and join.
4. Form your own REI club if need be.
5. Find a CF club.
6. Form a CF club is need be.
7. Check out 10 books from the library about REI. Any books, just start reading.
8. Spend an hour everyday combing through RE sites like this one.
9. Check out the classic posts section on the richdad.com site (beeter yet--here on the Fastlane.)
10. Run practice numbers...meaning find a deal that you would be interested in (if you knew how to move forward) and bring details back here. We will help you fill in more details and tell you what you need or are missing.
11. Ask questions. Find 5 local people in your area that are involved in some aspect of RE and pick their brain- take them out for coffee and listen to what they say.
12. Print out business cards that say you are looking for a mentor and that you are willing to do all the grunt work (see #1). Pass them out to everyone you know.

That should get you started. If you are thinking that you can pay a flat fee for all the knowledge you need, you are thinking inside the box. F#$k the box. Redefine the box. The box only exists if you choose to live inside of it. ...Welcome to the Matrix. ;)
 
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artherd

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Yeah, my thoughts are: "Wow, seminars are a great way to get rich, infact they're better than anything else this seminar host has ever done."
 

tbsells

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Run! Fast! The idea of raising your credit card limit on day one so that you can buy the next seminar on day two is repulsive. The lack of character is appalling.
 

phlgirl

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I agree with quite a bit of what has been said here already - particularly the following points:

tbsells - Re: Just attended a REI seminar. your thoughts?
Run! Fast! The idea of raising your credit card limit on day one so that you can buy the next seminar on day two is repulsive. The lack of character is appalling.

reipro - Re: Just attended a REI seminar. your thoughts?
Please ask them the next time that you see one of these seminars what there gurantee is? They will be speachless!!! Ask them to gurantee that you will make your money back over the next 12 months or they will refund your training fee less the travel costs.


That said, I am going to buck the trend here and say that not all seminars are bad. Like anything else in life, you have to do your due diligence and find out which products are worthwhile and which are poorly run, often unethical business models, designed to get your money when you walk in the door, without as much as a thought of you, once you have left.

After recommendations, from several people I respect greatly, I decided to spend the money to attend a seminar. I can say, without a doubt, that is was some of the best money I have spent in my life. At this particular seminar, it was a group of 30 people - each of us had 1 on 1 time with the business expert. I presented my actual financial situation, all of my holdings (real estate and other), and painted a picture of our business model. The expert - a man who has done over a billion dollars in deals for HIMSELF - reviewed my situation and made key suggestions, which, at the time, I had been completely missing. His advice and mentoring provided our company the knowledge we needed to be able to move forward at a much more rapid speed.

Would our business have survived and continued to make money without this advice? Probably. Did we end up making substantially more money than what I had to invest to spend time with this expert? Absolutely. Just like anything else, folks, it's all about ROI.

I think there are a lot of bad programs out there. In fact, I feel safe to say that there are more bad than good. It's unfortunate, but that's life. Do the research and find an education program, which is tried and tested. It should be a program where the person who is teaching the course, is a person who actually MADE MONEY doing what is being taught. It should be a program where you can interact with that individual, not where you are one, in a sea of thousands (or, even worse, the expert is not even in the room).

As for the comments about how much money these seminars are making........ IF the program is worthwhile and makes money for you, who cares how much they are making! That's like the guy/gal who has NO MONEY, finds a great deal, which is guarenteed to make a 100k return. Someone comes along and offers to finance the deal but wants 60% of the profit. A lot of people, out of pure greed and stubbornness would walk away from the deal. Let's see.....what's better?? 40% of 100k or 40% of nothing??? Focus on yourself and your own outcome and quit worrying about the other guy.

Be smart. Do your homework. This was not a decision I made overnight.
 
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ChrisS417

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Phlgirl:

What was the seminar you attended?

One of the good ones I've heard about isn't exactly for business/REI. It's the Dale Carnegie course. Apparently it teaches sales and personal betterment I believe. My girlfriend's dad swears by it and that it changed his life. It was back in the 50s so whatever they offered then. Looking at the website now they offer tons of different courses and trainings. He went from dirt poor, having 3 kids without even a high school diploma to becoming a millionaire in real estate and his three kids are even more successful than him at it.
 

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reipro

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phlgrl,

That is an excellent post. Some times we are very short sided. You must look everythign over very close then decide which is best for you. 100% of zero is still zero!
 

phlgirl

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Chris -

The program I attended was Business Mentoring, by Keith J. Cunningham. http://www.keystothevault.com/about/index.html

It was a great program for WHAT I NEEDED. I needed a business expert to review my current situation and make key recommendations, so that I could acheive my business goals in the most efficient manner possible. This was not, in my opinion, something that could be learned by reading a book, as every business/financial situation is unique.

Keith has financed/bought/sold companies so many times that doing an evaluation on financial statements is a walk in the park for him. Although I have a degree in Accounting, I do not pretend to be an expert in financial analysis.... until you have done it, in real life, hundreds of times, it is simply not an easy task.

This is not a course in how to invest in RE. I hear there are such courses in existence but have not been to any of them and therefore cannot speak to their value (or lack thereof).

It seems, to me, like you are shopping around for something to get you started. Without a goal in mind, I would say that this can be very dangerous. It is very important that you first determine what it is that you want to do/acheive and then find the proper education to suit that need. I would NOT recommend just shelling out cash for a seminar, with no end goal in mind. As a matter of fact, I would say that you should have a serious plan, in writing, and have done substantial research on your own, at a minimum. No one at these seminars is going to tell you what to do with your life - you have to DECIDE and then seek the proper education/guidance.

Otherwise you end up a seminar junkie (there are more out there than you could imagine) - people who just jump from one seminar to the next but never do anything with the skills learned. I can see how it might be addiciting - these sessions are often very empowering and motivational but without action, it is a serious waste of time/money. Unless, of course, you just have money to burn (there are quite a few of those people out there too).

I hope this helps.
 

SteveO

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I was a presenter at a seminar where Keith spoke as well. Although he only had a couple of hours, he did seem to be very dynamic and knowledgeable.
 

moolamaker

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:smx4:eek:h my goodness!!! Well, I am here in El paso Tx and I also attended a one day free seminar and geez i'm glad I am not the only one that felt pressured to buy ...so ok I did! I paid the $495 for the 3 day seminar! I am so dissapointed to read that it's a ploy to pay for something else! I have read his books and now I am here to learn more and gather info so that I can make an educated move...I'm sure i'll get something out of the seminar ...RK seems to be the master...sales tactics and pressure were used and I fell for it...
 

CVentures1B12

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Of course these guys are going to sell you something else. But that is how they make some money. The fact of the matter is, is that Robert Kiyosaki is a very upstanding man and has an incredulous reputation in the investing world. Although not quite the worth of Mr. Trump, he is definitely up there with him in the world of investing.
Basically it is the Whitney Organization teaching their strategies while using the Brand of Rich Dad. Now this means two things to me. One: It means that Robert, being the honorable man that he is, would never lend his name and brand to someone who was going to rip people off. Of course they are going to upsell...thats what the world revolves around, sales. Two: It means that Robert saw an opportunity in these strategies, and knows that there is money to be made with this way of Real Estate Business.
You made a good decision by going to this course because the fact remains that, even though you will hear a few more sales pitches, your world will be opened up! Your context will be expanded and after this short boot camp, your content will begin to fill that expanded context. They will teach the basics of everything to do with Taxes, Foreclosures, Lease Options, Wholesaling etc., which is a booming business right now!
You may think that I work for Rich Dad or something, but actually I just bought this 3-day seminar as well. And even after I read the negative reviews. If nothing else, I got the amazing "Choose to be Rich" package. But for me, it was necessary and I will tell you why. I am now "officially" taking my financial education seriously. I have been reading, listening, watching, and playing Cashflow for almost a year now and never made any moves past that. Whether this seminar is a bust or not...I have now taken action and taken the next step. So don't be discouraged, contrary to the skeptics...YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING. So congrats on taking the next step!!!!

Happy Investing,
Josh Curtis
 

MJ DeMarco

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Of course these guys are going to sell you something else. But that is how they make some money. The fact of the matter is, is that Robert Kiyosaki is a very upstanding man and has an incredulous reputation in the investing world. Although not quite the worth of Mr. Trump, he is definitely up there with him in the world of investing.
Basically it is the Whitney Organization teaching their strategies while using the Brand of Rich Dad. Now this means two things to me. One: It means that Robert, being the honorable man that he is, would never lend his name and brand to someone who was going to rip people off. Of course they are going to upsell...thats what the world revolves around, sales. Two: It means that Robert saw an opportunity in these strategies, and knows that there is money to be made with this way of Real Estate Business.
You made a good decision by going to this course because the fact remains that, even though you will hear a few more sales pitches, your world will be opened up! Your context will be expanded and after this short boot camp, your content will begin to fill that expanded context. They will teach the basics of everything to do with Taxes, Foreclosures, Lease Options, Wholesaling etc., which is a booming business right now!
You may think that I work for Rich Dad or something, but actually I just bought this 3-day seminar as well. And even after I read the negative reviews. If nothing else, I got the amazing "Choose to be Rich" package. But for me, it was necessary and I will tell you why. I am now "officially" taking my financial education seriously. I have been reading, listening, watching, and playing Cashflow for almost a year now and never made any moves past that. Whether this seminar is a bust or not...I have now taken action and taken the next step. So don't be discouraged, contrary to the skeptics...YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING. So congrats on taking the next step!!!!

Happy Investing,
Josh Curtis
Kiyosaki = Honorable?
Kiyosaki = Trump w/respect to investing world?

After reading these two ridiculous comments, I stopped reading. You sound green with celebrity envy.
 

mglshark

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I been to many seminars, books, how to kits, etc. What comes to mind about seminars is that much of the solid info is already out there for cheap or free. Look up Les's RD forum back posts for a complete RE education (via Amazon) for less than $50 (if I remember correctly)! Even "how to" kits can be found cheap on E Bay, thrift stores and free at the public library and the web! Get fellow students "to chip in" to get the course info. Through the public interlibrary loans I could even borrow a $5000 course on commodity trading, let alone RE courses!

So the real question is the cost worth it? Yes if you do something with it! Often the real good stuff comes from talking to people in the hallway, on break, at lunch, networks and masterminding. I pick up tons of stuff from hanging out with such people more then the guru on the stage! So even a overprice seminar can be cheap & great deal viewed from from this.

Sometimes you pick up stuff not related to the seminar, for example I learn and did the Wade Cook method, spend lot's of money (at the time), broke even, learn and realize I am a value investor not a gun slinger. This help me long term with the way I invest now. But better than that I learn about the different business structures that save me some good tax money long term, with my tax adviser blessings. So you can say I overpaid for Wade's stuff at the time but now going forward I reduce my taxes and became a better investor for the next 15 - 20 years! Now that was worthwhile!


But if you a newbie then cheap / free education and finding a mentor should come first. The guys that need the seminars usually can't afford them, the ones that can usually don't need them! Spend your last dollar to go to one and you realize now your education never ends, you either pay in $$$ and / or time to get to the next level. It never ends! A seminar (for a fee) educates you by replaces your time for $$$ but cannot give you "real world" experience. Doing & mentoring does!

Seminars are not always right - putting your RE in your IRAs creates more problems than the guru on the stage tells you! Nothing down deals can go south and lease options / foreclosure's / tax lien cert. all have problems that nobody mentions from the stage trying to sell you their "kit"!

So start small, make mistakes, grab all free / cheap education, find a mentor (cheap or free), as you make money you can start hitting the high end seminars.

Hope this helps!

Marc
 

CVentures1B12

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PHxMJ,
I understand your concern and I do have many things to learn. I agree with you in the fact that I have celebrity envy, but the fact of the matter remains that Robert Kiyosaki got me into the investing world. Whether or not our thoughts/beliefs agree, I respect him for opening my eyes to the investing world. If it were not for his book, I would be completely happy with my 8-5 JOB, and planning on staying there until I am 65 (or more in today's world). So at least agree with me on that. I am not out to make enemies. I am always up for learning more and more and taking everyones advice. So please, if you must criticize, criticize well so that I may learn.

mglshark,
I appreciate your advice, and while you are correct in saying that seminars are not always right, this seminar was very right for me.

1) I have prepared for this, and it was my next step. I have now, in my mind, done the thing that takes my seriousness about investing to the next level.

2) The cost was split becaue (through a Cashflow club that I meet with weekly) I found a partner who would split the costs with me. He is an middle aged man who has been successful in the stock market, and now he is ready for Real Estate. He is a pseudo-mentor for me and I am looking forward to spending this time with him, in order to partner with him in the future.

3) I met a person there that I had been pestering for months to gain the ability to mentor under him. Finally meeting him in person, he agreed to helping me through my first deals and working with him on some of his.

This has been an amazing experience for me because of all of these reasons. PHxMJ, I understand your concern, but cut me a little slack. I just graduated from college. I owe student loans. I have no capital. I am just looking for guidance and working on my ability. I come from nothing, but I would not trade my life for anything. It has given me the drive to do more with my life. I am farther now than I ever have been and I attribute it to the choices that I have made. Whether you agree or not, I hope that we will be able to come to an agreement of some kind and mutually help each other to make some major money! I am always up to talk about anything investing.

Thanks,
Josh
 

MJ DeMarco

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PHxMJ,
I understand your concern and I do have many things to learn. I agree with you in the fact that I have celebrity envy, but the fact of the matter remains that Robert Kiyosaki got me into the investing world. Whether or not our thoughts/beliefs agree, I respect him for opening my eyes to the investing world. If it were not for his book, I would be completely happy with my 8-5 JOB, and planning on staying there until I am 65 (or more in today's world). So at least agree with me on that. I am not out to make enemies. I am always up for learning more and more and taking everyones advice. So please, if you must criticize, criticize well so that I may learn.
Ask anyone and I am a fan of Robert K's teachings - we agree on that. High pressure exploitation of his clones at the tune of $XX,XXX per seminar - we don't. Russ Whitney and "honor" in the same paragraph is like discussing Jenna Jamison's newest bible church.

Aside from that, welcome!
 

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