Jordan Belfort’s Sales Training - Is it worth It?

[Likwid24]

Yup. Like I said, to each his own. Thats whats working for you. If it works then great. Do what works for you.

 

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[DaRK9]

Interesting. What’s been your main takeaways? What are you doing different after reading their books?

I’m repelled by even the idea of reading sales books. I just think they’ll mess with my mojo. Am I mistaken?

Josh is big on making deposits with no withdrawals. Most sales are geared around boxing the customer into categories, removing objections and going for the kill. Which, yes you need to do that but more tactfully than most go about it.

Both of the people I mentioned are much more passive and value-based.

Check out Josh on LinkedIn. I pretty much only use LinkedIn to read his posts. This video alone has helped a ton.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuzR3zC-Jg


Landed an IoT dev project using the methods.

I knew the company was looking to develop an IoT solution in house, knew what the product was and I sent them detailed renders for a prototype with no strings attached. No "Let's schedule a 15 min chat, no pressure."

What, no pressure now that I've given you value then immediately asked for your time? Even if the person schedules they are doing it out of being polite most of the time if you gave them something for free first.

It’s on my list of things to do as well, but I aim to write a whole book on this technique and the different applications of it to gain control and keep control of the conversation, conversation structure/ people’s expectations, and how to always be closing using the technique

I used to sell the same way but moving to these newer methods in B2B has crushed my old methods. People know when they are being controlled and lead into a bunch of yes traps and micro-agreements and all that BS. Especially at higher levels when they have read all the same books as you if not more.

 

[Andy Black]

Josh is big on making deposits with no withdrawals. Most sales are geared around boxing the customer into categories, removing objections and going for the kill. Which, yes you need to do that but more tactfully than most go about it.

Both of the people I mentioned are much more passive and value-based.

Check out Josh on LinkedIn. I pretty much only use LinkedIn to read his posts. This video alone has helped a ton.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuzR3zC-Jg


Landed an IoT dev project using the methods.

I knew the company was looking to develop an IoT solution in house, knew what the product was and I sent them detailed renders for a prototype with no strings attached. No "Let's schedule a 15 min chat, no pressure."

What, no pressure now that I've given you value then immediately asked for your time? Even if the person schedules they are doing it out of being polite most of the time if you gave them something for free first.



I used to sell the same way but moving to these newer methods in B2B has crushed my old methods. People know when they are being controlled and lead into a bunch of yes traps and micro-agreements and all that BS. Especially at higher levels when they have read all the same books as you if not more.

What a great idea to have a screen when doing a presentation! He’s engaging with it too, for one video at least.

His sales style is right up my street.

I’m in B2B too. The people I talk to have likely read the books telling them that whoever breaks the silence loses - hence me breaking it if I think the game is afoot.

I also agree with more “You” than “I”, as most people would.


I love the phrase “big on making deposits with no withdrawals”.


I don’t do outbound, but respond to inbound queries.

I just ask a few questions and then offer to jump on a quick call to review their (Google Ads) account. People are delighted/relieved to have someone look at their account to give them tips.

At the end of the call I wish them good luck. I’ll only explain our service if they ask for it. I’ll send an email summary of what was discussed. I’ll check they opened the email and if they have then that’s it, I’m done.

My thinking behind those emails is very similar to Josh’s, although I don’t mention what we’ve done for similar clients. I’ll probably continue not to.

It’s super passive, and my interpretation of “always be closing” is to always be moving - down my list of people who’ve contacted me.

After all, I subscribe to “Sales is a screening process.” (Blaise Brosnan)

I don’t even like having call-to-actions in my YouTube videos (but am testing them and will go with what the data tells me to use).

Thanks for your reply @DaRK9.

 

[Akeem]

Okay, so I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so excuse me if I say something that's already been said.

Jordan Belfort's Sales Training - Worth It?

Honestly, I have no idea whether it's actually worth what you pay for - but I'd stay away from JB. Sure, back at the time he did what he did, but it feels like he's just milking it now. You could argue that there's a movie about him and his past, but if anything, that should probably raise some concerns as he's pretty well experienced in talking a load of sh*t and getting money out of it. You'll probably get some nice info out the sales training as there's always something new to learn, however, how much of that is going to be of value depends on what you already know and what you don't.

That's just my opinion though.

 

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[SinisterKid]

Before he made a course there were leaked videos online. Everything in those videos were covered in his book The Way of The Wolf.
Idk if the new course will contain anything new.
Maybe start with the book? See if you like his ideas.
A note on selling:
Read the book SPIN selling!
It is recommended by IceCreamKid and Dane Maxwell.
It seperates pros from amateurs and focuses on the prospect to name his/hers problems and come up with your product as a solution. Very natural, very persuasive!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Imo, Jordan's Straight Line Persuasion is too expensive compared to the value offered. You pretty much get a brain-dump of sales information, which is good information, but it's not very well organized and you don't really have any homework or ways to really get it into your system provided.

If you ask me Jordan does a far better job at being a marketer and salesman selling an expensive course. If you do buy it, you're likely to make more than you paid for it based on the info inside, but it's not the most efficient allocation of your money - there are better courses out there.

I'd recommend Tony Robbins' Mastering Influence in its place. At around 300 bucks it's significantly cheaper and goes over pretty much the same NLP techniques, but also has added homework to help you remember the concepts and tailor them to your own situation.

Funnily enough, 6-7 years ago, when I first heard about TFLF, Jordan's SLP course was frequently recommended around here for sales. Now, it's very rare to see it recommended as evidenced by this thread. The forum is lower on the sales/marketing type of entrepreneurs and greater on the producers at the moment.

 

[Alexio]

I'v found a copy of the SL Persuasion, so I did not pay for it
And just let me say, that in my way of thinking is too expensive 997 dollars is really to much
cost and value are on two different levels
So with the copy in my hand (170 pages) I've followed him on Facebook and Patreon, for the whiteboard Wednesday and the daily motivation (just for two month October and November 2018)
plus the free webinars (during August and September 2018).

And "let me tell you something": it works
because you get some skills about how to answer against a "NO"
how to talk with a client (or not) if he is a man or she is a woman
some more skills about tonality and body language
Skills that works even in the "normal life"

In my case for example
1) I convinced my mother to cut the trees that risked falling over her house
2) I convinced my mother to have a stock of food for 3-4 months in early February, before the coronavirus appeared in Italy

Then of course you need to know what to do, how to do, how to speak, how to dress (dress for success).... have a grate product and some more

but you can not sell something if the persone in front of you does not need the thing that you are selling: the famous phrase: "sell me this pen"
that's the point, ones you have done the straight line you can "add a zero to your income" only if you found the clients in target, knowing the straight line does not Make you a millionaire overnight
iF YOU WANT to do the straight line, DO IT!!
But you have to know how to get the clients in target (hot clients and not cold, and remember that you have to warm the client, with salesLetter, advertising and so on) before to pay learn the Straight line
And personally, I suggest it, it's interesting, but do not pay too much

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I feel like sales is at a turning point and old tactics are being thrown out the window. It honestly doesn't feel like I'm selling anymore after implementing the tactics from these two.

The thing with sales, marketing and persuasion more generally is that they are always changing. We'll never have a "final" way to sell that is the best. An important factor in selling is standing out - the moment everyone starts sending cute gifts along with their letters, etc. will be the moment when those tactics no longer work. Suddenly the straight forward approach "I wanna sell you this pen" will be back in vogue and you'll appear honest and straightforward by adopting it, as opposed to masking your intentions. At the moment, sending the cute gifts, empathy driven, etc. makes you stand out because so few sales people do it and it's a more human way focused on building relationships. It gives you credibility because you're not just trying to make a buck. But as soon as the people who ARE just trying to make a buck start copying these approaches, that will be the end of them.

 

[DaRK9]

The thing with sales, marketing and persuasion more generally is that they are always changing. We'll never have a "final" way to sell that is the best. An important factor in selling is standing out - the moment everyone starts sending cute gifts along with their letters, etc. will be the moment when those tactics no longer work. Suddenly the straight forward approach "I wanna sell you this pen" will be back in vogue and you'll appear honest and straightforward by adopting it, as opposed to masking your intentions. At the moment, sending the cute gifts, empathy driven, etc. makes you stand out because so few sales people do it and it's a more human way focused on building relationships. It gives you credibility because you're not just trying to make a buck. But as soon as the people who ARE just trying to make a buck start copying these approaches, that will be the end of them.

I agree to an extent, but until recently salespeople have never really ever ben customer-centric. This is a paradigm shift that I'm not sure will revert.

People have always done gifts and letters. That isn't anything new. The real change has been how salespeople view customers.

The old way of looking at customers is they are all dumb sheep who need to be herded down a "straight line" and to try and one call close every single person you get on the phone with.

The mindset was never "I wanna sell you this pen", in fact, the quote is "Sell me this pen." Which is a command, and how the entire old-school sales process is. Controlling the convo and customer and hardline the sale.

Modern companies that are EQ focused and customer-driven have changed customer buying habits permanently.

The slime-balls might try to emulate EQ but the customer will be able to sniff out the intent.

Using empathy is counterintuitive to the mindset of someone who only cares about the close.

Empathy is a mindset, not another sales tactic and when you get it wrong, it goes very wrong. It's not a masked intent, it's the entire process.

I might be wrong, but I don't see it reverting, only evolving. Sales has been done the same way with only minor adjustments for so long that people kind of accepted all the hard closing and micro-agreements and bs that comes with it.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

The old way of looking at customers is they are all dumb sheep who need to be herded down a "straight line" and to try and one call close every single person you get on the phone with.

Yes, it's true that for the most part sales training adopted this line of thinking.

However, the best salesman in the past 100 years had adopted the empathy mindset. Take a look at Joe Girard the Guinness World Record holder for sales (auto sales) who treated his customers like friends and hired assistants to make sure that each customer was contacted on their birthday and would receive greeting cards on other important dates. He was born in 1928 (so he's 91 years old now) - definitely not new school.

Or David Ogilvy who said things like "if you can’t make a lady laugh, you can’t make her buy". Also old-school.

Or even Dale Carnegie with his book How To Make Friends And Influence People - also empathy based.

The mindset was never "I wanna sell you this pen", in fact, the quote is "Sell me this pen." Which is a command, and how the entire old-school sales process is. Controlling the convo and customer and hardline the sale.

I agree that this is generally how sales was taught because it was effective. Customers had not yet caught up with the tricks, that's why it worked. Also, tips and tricks can be taught easily, but teaching empathy is a lot harder.

Modern companies that are EQ focused and customer-driven have changed customer buying habits permanently.

That's true, I think customers are also a lot smarter today than they were in the past. Today you are bombarded with sales messages, so you have a lot more experience with them, and a healthy skepticism. In the past, sales messages were fewer.

The slime-balls might try to emulate EQ but the customer will be able to sniff out the intent.

Using empathy is counterintuitive to the mindset of someone who only cares about the close.

Empathy is a mindset, not another sales tactic and when you get it wrong, it goes very wrong. It's not a masked intent, it's the entire process.

I can't debate you on that. Empathy is here to stay, and it was always here to stay as an attitude. What will change though is the tactics. Take mirroring. Both Josh and Chris Voss advocate it. Imagine a world in which every salesman, everywhere you go, is mirroring your language back to you to get you to talk more. You'll catch up to it, and sooner or later you'll think about it as actually some disingenuous way to get you to buy something. Sure, not everyone will be disingenuous, but more and more of the empathy-driven people will get caught along with the others when using this tactic.

Empathy is an attitude, so people who have this attitude will just change their tactics to adjust to the market. This has always happened and will keep happening.

 

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[Kevin88660]

I am in the space of B to C sales of financial products.

I noticed there is still a generation difference in consumer behavior. Baby boomers tend to emphasize on relationships and personal touch. Millennials tend to emphasize on the logical orientation of the deal-What’s there for me? Tell me how is this a bargain? Send me the quote and let me compare with five others...

 

[csalvato]

I agree to an extent, but until recently salespeople have never really ever ben customer-centric. This is a paradigm shift that I'm not sure will revert.

People have always done gifts and letters. That isn't anything new. The real change has been how salespeople view customers.

The old way of looking at customers is they are all dumb sheep who need to be herded down a "straight line" and to try and one call close every single person you get on the phone with.

The mindset was never "I wanna sell you this pen", in fact, the quote is "Sell me this pen." Which is a command, and how the entire old-school sales process is. Controlling the convo and customer and hardline the sale.

Modern companies that are EQ focused and customer-driven have changed customer buying habits permanently.

The slime-balls might try to emulate EQ but the customer will be able to sniff out the intent.

Using empathy is counterintuitive to the mindset of someone who only cares about the close.

Empathy is a mindset, not another sales tactic and when you get it wrong, it goes very wrong. It's not a masked intent, it's the entire process.

I might be wrong, but I don't see it reverting, only evolving. Sales has been done the same way with only minor adjustments for so long that people kind of accepted all the hard closing and micro-agreements and bs that comes with it.

I can see how you think that if your focus isthe sales trainings you’ve seen as popular, especially on this forum. But SPIN selling, which is customer centric, has been around and popular for a long time.

I think this is more a case of your perception, and that you’re becoming a more mature salesperson (and, possibly, that this community’s focus is also becoming more mature)

 

[reedracer]

What a great idea to have a screen when doing a presentation! He’s engaging with it too, for one video at least.

I'm loving the videos done with these...

How to Make a Lightboard for Less Than $100 (Step-by-Step, With Illustrations) - Flipped Learning Network Hub

This Powerful Teaching Tool can be Affordable Too There have been some great blog posts from flipped educators Jon Bergmann, Kevin Hogendorp, and Joel Speranza recently on how to make lightboards. I want to share with you how I made my lightboard for less than $100. I also want to show you...

flippedlearning.org

 

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[DaRK9]

I can see how you think that if your focus isthe sales trainings you’ve seen as popular, especially on this forum. But SPIN selling, which is customer centric, has been around and popular for a long time.

I think this is more a case of your perception, and that you’re becoming a more mature salesperson (and, possibly, that this community’s focus is also becoming more mature)

Possibly. Maybe it’s also industry related because in my past corporate job every software or tech salesperson was grimey af and constantly trying to contact and set another call or demo to where it became a major annoyance.

“You want to do X and Y and help you using Z. Does that sound right?”

Yes.

“Okay so if 3 months from now we could fix X would it be worth it today?”

The stereotypical bs yes traps. The fact is me personally I don’t care how many micro-agreements and yes’s you get I’m still going to get quotes from every competitor and weigh everything out.

So maybe my view of sales is tainted from that being a big part of my job and why I never wanted to be in sales before.

 

[Kevin88660]

Possibly. Maybe it’s also industry related because in my past corporate job every software or tech salesperson was grimey af and constantly trying to contact and set another call or demo to where it became a major annoyance.

“You want to do X and Y and help you using Z. Does that sound right?”

Yes.

“Okay so if 3 months from now we could fix X would it be worth it today?”

The stereotypical bs yes traps. The fact is me personally I don’t care how many micro-agreements and yes’s you get I’m still going to get quotes from every competitor and weigh everything out.

So maybe my view of sales is tainted from that being a big part of my job and why I never wanted to be in sales before.

Yes, a lot of sales stuff taught are nonsense. They insult the level of intelligence of the prospect.

They are trying to interfere or overwrite the the buyer’s decision making process which will never work.

 

[The Patriot Way]

1. I used to manage a call center, I recommend a 3 step solution to each response. The steps are: Statement, Question, Silence.

2. When would you like to hear a post expanding on these ideas?

3. (Be silent, don’t say a word no matter how long it takes. It’s a duel of who will break the silence first)

What's about the longest silence you ever had? Did one of you just hang up after a while?

 

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[Kevin88660]

Jordan Belford way of presentation, if executed elegantly is a very refined presentation that can impress your client. But I do see two problems for my experience.

1) Effort. Belford’s styles a high level of energy and very quick on the spot reaction towards clients’ body language and verbal response. It is constantly trying to be sincerely reasonably without being too pushy. It is technically elegant. But is it worth the effort? Most sales appointment do not lead to sales and factors outside of your control are mainly at play. You might be better off just be straight to the point without trying so hard.

2) The issue is that the style of trying to hard can backfire. Jordan’s style, from the customers pov is that someone will love him and someone else will dislike him. If someone who is looking to be impressed by an eloquent expert will be impressed. But a lot of times speaking to my experience from a sales person customer are not looking to be impressed. Customers did their own preliminary research and are often looking for someone “down to earth” and reliable. They are not looking for a shining star but they are looking for someone who looks like they are not going to let him down or rip him off. Think of the honest quiet boy in your high school class who is not the smartest or most popular but the least likely to lie or steal. If you do the JB system you are at risk of being seen as shrewd at at worse slimy. It just raises people’s guard.

 

[Kepler]

What's about the longest silence you ever had? Did one of you just hang up after a while?

A solid 30-40 seconds, and no usually they answer the question or ask if you are still there.

 

[Kepler]

What's about the longest silence you ever had? Did one of you just hang up after a while?

Also after they answer don’t say anything until they stop talking, people will usually give you more information than you asked for and can help you in the sale.

 

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[The Patriot Way]

A solid 30-40 seconds, and no usually they answer the question or ask if you are still there.

That's fantastic. I don't know if I could do that.

 

[Kepler]

That's fantastic. I don't know if I could do that.

Honestly just think of it as a game and remember the worst thing that can happen is they curse at you or hang up