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Is SEO even worth it?

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eliquid

( Jason Brown )
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I could tell you a lot about this, considering I run a SaaS to help SEO's while also having a background in PPC the last 20 years.

Without getting into specifics, just follow this advice:

DOUBLE DOWN ON WHAT'S WORKING FOR YOU NOW

That isn't SEO atm for you.
 

Fairhill

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Jun 7, 2018
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Dedicated landing pages for Google Ads is a must so it's good you're doing that. How many sales are you generating from organic web vs paid web?
I'm more than happy to run your domain through some traffic analysis tools to see what improvement you could have. You could also look at your Google Analytics data to discover whether people are bouncing which would suggest a 'bad' website.

We are not generating any sales from organic as I have spent 0 time on SEO or content marketing. We are getting sales solely from PPC and refferals.

I need to get more familiar with Google Analytics, thanks for the reminder. Thanks for the offer on traffic analysis as well but I got that covered now I think.

Thanks for the info!

1. This looks great! Having a slight profit margin is where you want to be at. Most importantly, you're CTAs are working for the audience you want to reach so far.

2. Yeah, those credentials and being in big corporate environments is giving me some red flags. If his advice on nav bars, blogs, and SEO is coming from that context, then that prescription may not work. This feels like apples to oranges; a company with the billion dollar revenue to support a marketing budget versus a company starting out would have different SEO needs. I'd say shelve your friend's advice for now, but seek out another SEO expert who has a closer track record to yours, such as having used SEO to deliver the right results.

3. This is great! Hope your Thursday call goes well and is a productive one.

Also just received your DM; I'll take a look and see what I can do there.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, this really is apples to oranges I reckon.
 

Fairhill

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Jun 7, 2018
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I run a tutoring business and our website is a simple one-page site, but I've gotten mostly good feedback on it.

We also run Google Ads to dedicated landing pages which are even simpler. The goal is to simple get a phone number lead, or engage them with the on-site chat, and get them on the phone to build trust.

Today, I spoke with a friend who is a digital marketing manager for a larger company.

He was suprised I didn't have a "proper" website with nav menus, blog, etc etc.

He said he wouldn't trust my website as a customer.

He also said I need to improve SEO.

Well our Google Ad campaign is giving results, but it got me thinking...maybe we could be doing much better?

The natural thing here would be to test his suggestions to see if it gives better conversion rates, more clients etc. But getting good SEO and creating our website from scratch would entail many months of work.

What do you guys think, what have been your experiences? Am I stupid for not doing SEO, and for having a very "simple" home page? (if you want to see the site, PM me and I'll send you a link)
 

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minivanman

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For YOUR business, do you need/ want to grow faster? Can YOUR business handle faster growth or is it at a steady pace for what is best for YOUR business? Those are the real questions you need to ask yourself, questions about YOUR business, not about SEO or advertising or what some 'professional' says.

For the record, I usually want to know what a 'professional' says, so I can do the opposite.
 

Kid

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SEO is a trap.
You might get some bump but if its your main strategy then the upside is limited.
And you will always have to lie to normal people how you've got there.
 

imdchange

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Hi Fairhill, gotta admit, I'm curious about a few things before we even dive into whether SEO is good, which is if this person's SEO advice to your current business stage is valid to begin with.
  1. What are your financial metrics like? How much is your business bringing in now?

  2. Who's this 'Digital Marketing Manager'? Has this person been in a position to generate massive results, like bringing in 100,000 buyers or generated $2 million in revenue for his company? Or is this some guy that has a 'cushy job' with a $100k salary who never started a business?

  3. It makes sense to test, but make sure you're testing the 'right advice', too. Going back to #2, I'd think about it this way: If I'm making $100,000/mo right now, and want to make 2x, 5x, or even 10x of that, does my friend's SEO advice get me there? Do I even feel ready to make that leap and deal with that complexity?
You're right about SEO being complex; not just to set it up and 'start from scratch', but also to maintain a standard of quality than cheap keyword tactics, and potential quarterly/annual changes in algorithms, rules, and regulations from search engines will take time to adjust, too. It's definitely a longer-term play with maintenance over time.
 

Fairhill

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Jun 7, 2018
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Hi Fairhill, gotta admit, I'm curious about a few things before we even dive into whether SEO is good, which is if this person's SEO advice to your current business stage is valid to begin with.
  1. What are your financial metrics like? How much is your business bringing in now?

  2. Who's this 'Digital Marketing Manager'? Has this person been in a position to generate massive results, like bringing in 100,000 buyers or generated $2 million in revenue for his company? Or is this some guy that has a 'cushy job' with a $100k salary who never started a business?

  3. It makes sense to test, but make sure you're testing the 'right advice', too. Going back to #2, I'd think about it this way: If I'm making $100,000/mo right now, and want to make 2x, 5x, or even 10x of that, does my friend's SEO advice get me there? Do I even feel ready to make that leap and deal with that complexity?
You're right about SEO being complex; not just to set it up and 'start from scratch', but also to maintain a standard of quality than cheap keyword tactics, and potential quarterly/annual changes in algorithms, rules, and regulations from search engines will take time to adjust, too. It's definitely a longer-term play with maintenance over time.

Thanks for your response,

1. Our revenue for the upcoming month will be 5-7k USD, with a slight profit margin (just made my first hire, not counting independent subcontractors)

2. While I can't speak for what results this person has produced, the company has roughly a billion dollar revenue if I read their financials correctly. The person I spoke to has a degree from a very prestigious school and held marketing and marketing management positions before. I have no idea about his entrepreneurship/startup experience. It may be that his "view" is more aligned with what a big established company should do and his advice is actually counter-productive for my scenario...

3. "A/B-testing" advice from others is a good point, I actually have a meeting booked thursday with a guy who seemed really eager to help. I can update you if you're interested.

I DM'd you my website and landing pages, if you could take a look I'd be very happy.
 

Putt

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Dedicated landing pages for Google Ads is a must so it's good you're doing that. How many sales are you generating from organic web vs paid web?
I'm more than happy to run your domain through some traffic analysis tools to see what improvement you could have. You could also look at your Google Analytics data to discover whether people are bouncing which would suggest a 'bad' website.
 

imdchange

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Thanks for your response,

1. Our revenue for the upcoming month will be 5-7k USD, with a slight profit margin (just made my first hire, not counting independent subcontractors)

2. While I can't speak for what results this person has produced, the company has roughly a billion dollar revenue if I read their financials correctly. The person I spoke to has a degree from a very prestigious school and held marketing and marketing management positions before. I have no idea about his entrepreneurship/startup experience. It may be that his "view" is more aligned with what a big established company should do and his advice is actually counter-productive for my scenario...

3. "A/B-testing" advice from others is a good point, I actually have a meeting booked thursday with a guy who seemed really eager to help. I can update you if you're interested.

I DM'd you my website and landing pages, if you could take a look I'd be very happy.

Thanks for the info!

1. This looks great! Having a slight profit margin is where you want to be at. Most importantly, you're CTAs are working for the audience you want to reach so far.

2. Yeah, those credentials and being in big corporate environments is giving me some red flags. If his advice on nav bars, blogs, and SEO is coming from that context, then that prescription may not work. This feels like apples to oranges; a company with the billion dollar revenue to support a marketing budget versus a company starting out would have different SEO needs. I'd say shelve your friend's advice for now, but seek out another SEO expert who has a closer track record to yours, such as having used SEO to deliver the right results.

3. This is great! Hope your Thursday call goes well and is a productive one.

Also just received your DM; I'll take a look and see what I can do there.
 
D

Deleted81125

Guest
SEO doesn't get talked about much here so I guess it's not a priority.
Doesn't it require a lot of content marketing type posts?
Personally I'd rather have a simple webpage that generates leads than a tome website that people spend the afternoon reading then click away.
 

StillGrindin'

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He was suprised I didn't have a "proper" website with nav menus, blog, etc etc.

He said he wouldn't trust my website as a customer.

He also said I need to improve SEO.

But getting good SEO and creating our website from scratch would entail many months of work.

If you're serious about adding a blog, a CMS system like Wordpress would be the easiest solution for you. You can use a theme and keep it simple. If not, why not keep the layout simple and effective?

Navbars are really simple to create, it's the styling that can get complicated. Hamburger menus and dropdown menus will require Javascript (you can use some CSS wizardry to make a hamburger menu sans Javascript, but it's not easy). If you stay away from those things, it's not too bad. Just aligm your navbar with flexbox, then when you run media queries switch the flex-direction to column and you've got a perfectly responsive mobile friendly navbar that will come across the center. Best way to do it if you want to keep it simple and do it from scratch.
 

VINTALEADSBPO

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Aug 25, 2020
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I run a tutoring business and our website is a simple one-page site, but I've gotten mostly good feedback on it.

We also run Google Ads to dedicated landing pages which are even simpler. The goal is to simple get a phone number lead, or engage them with the on-site chat, and get them on the phone to build trust.

Today, I spoke with a friend who is a digital marketing manager for a larger company.

He was suprised I didn't have a "proper" website with nav menus, blog, etc etc.

He said he wouldn't trust my website as a customer.

He also said I need to improve SEO.

Well our Google Ad campaign is giving results, but it got me thinking...maybe we could be doing much better?

The natural thing here would be to test his suggestions to see if it gives better conversion rates, more clients etc. But getting good SEO and creating our website from scratch would entail many months of work.

What do you guys think, what have been your experiences? Am I stupid for not doing SEO, and for having a very "simple" home page? (if you want to see the site, PM me and I'll send you a link)

There are lot of platform for the success of a business whether it's product or services your in website isn't hard to promote if you have the right platform.. live:.cid.47f8fe2e30785242 can you send me the link so I can see and help you
 

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Timmy C

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I run a tutoring business and our website is a simple one-page site, but I've gotten mostly good feedback on it.

We also run Google Ads to dedicated landing pages which are even simpler. The goal is to simple get a phone number lead, or engage them with the on-site chat, and get them on the phone to build trust.

Today, I spoke with a friend who is a digital marketing manager for a larger company.

He was suprised I didn't have a "proper" website with nav menus, blog, etc etc.

He said he wouldn't trust my website as a customer.

He also said I need to improve SEO.

Well our Google Ad campaign is giving results, but it got me thinking...maybe we could be doing much better?

The natural thing here would be to test his suggestions to see if it gives better conversion rates, more clients, etc. But getting good SEO and creating our website from scratch would entail many months of work.

What do you guys think, what have been your experiences? Am I stupid for not doing SEO, and for having a very "simple" home page? (if you want to see the site, PM me and I'll send you a link)


I believe SEO is worth it as it diversifies your traffic sources.

Build out one traffic source and then work on building out others do you are less exposed to risks.
 

theofficepass

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Jan 27, 2020
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You
I run a tutoring business and our website is a simple one-page site, but I've gotten mostly good feedback on it.

We also run Google Ads to dedicated landing pages which are even simpler. The goal is to simple get a phone number lead, or engage them with the on-site chat, and get them on the phone to build trust.

Today, I spoke with a friend who is a digital marketing manager for a larger company.

He was suprised I didn't have a "proper" website with nav menus, blog, etc etc.

He said he wouldn't trust my website as a customer.

He also said I need to improve SEO.

Well our Google Ad campaign is giving results, but it got me thinking...maybe we could be doing much better?

The natural thing here would be to test his suggestions to see if it gives better conversion rates, more clients etc. But getting good SEO and creating our website from scratch would entail many months of work.

What do you guys think, what have been your experiences? Am I stupid for not doing SEO, and for having a very "simple" home page? (if you want to see the site, PM me and I'll send you a link)
You should really create more pages on your website. It will help to get your website ranked on more keywords. More keywords ranked means more traffic and leads. Write articles on website helps to grab more traffic because thousand of people have different queries about your product everyday.
 

Jlaugh

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Aug 1, 2018
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There have been plenty of great replies here, but I'd like to reply too because I think OP and I have a similar background. I'm also a tutor; I also edit research papers.

For small businesses, especially if they're local, I'd suggest particularized local SEO strategies. That's a bit of jargon, but it really only means trying to optimize your site to become more visible to internet users from a specific region. For instance, you could aim to optimize for "tutors in Seattle," or "math tutors in Seattle," or "online math tutors in Seattle." To decide how you go about optimizing for these will require a little more SEO knowledge, but it's nothing one can't pick up from simple online reading.

In fact, several of the links that have been mentioned in this thread will help you in this regard.

If you use wordpress, you could consider getting the full paid version, since it now gives you access to Google Analytics as well. Which means you'll find out who's visiting your site, where they come from (referrals), and what they see when they first come.

SEO is rather easy to pick up. There are plenty of easy-to-follow guides. Some certifications also. SEO is also becoming more respectable. Courses in Digital Marketing now involve a great deal of SEO-related modules. Even Information Security courses are now focusing on the ethical aspects of SEO, and why it's not necessarily a bad way of building presence (some people still look down on SEO). If you're interested, Whitman and Mattord's Principles of Information Security deals a little with SEO. Just mentioning this to reinforce that SEO is worth it. If you're not doing it, others who are doing it can potentially render you invisible online, especially if they're competitors. Hope this helps :)
 

bracknelson

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Oct 28, 2020
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In short, the answer is SEO is so important for every website or business, because it makes your website more visible, and that means more traffic and more opportunities to convert prospects into customers.

According to smart insights research, 94% of people click on organic results(SEO) than paid(PPC). It means that If you’re able to get one of those top 3 slots in the SERPs (Search Engine Results Pages), users are more likely to see your content first. This leaves the impression that you're the thought leader in your industry.
 

Kal-El1998

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SEO is definitely a necessity for every industry today...however...I'd be nervous of any marketer that says "I wouldn't even trust your site as a customer".

Sounds like his intentions might just be monetary.
 

Johnny boy

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I run a tutoring business and our website is a simple one-page site, but I've gotten mostly good feedback on it.

We also run Google Ads to dedicated landing pages which are even simpler. The goal is to simple get a phone number lead, or engage them with the on-site chat, and get them on the phone to build trust.

Today, I spoke with a friend who is a digital marketing manager for a larger company.

He was suprised I didn't have a "proper" website with nav menus, blog, etc etc.

He said he wouldn't trust my website as a customer.

He also said I need to improve SEO.

Well our Google Ad campaign is giving results, but it got me thinking...maybe we could be doing much better?

The natural thing here would be to test his suggestions to see if it gives better conversion rates, more clients etc. But getting good SEO and creating our website from scratch would entail many months of work.

What do you guys think, what have been your experiences? Am I stupid for not doing SEO, and for having a very "simple" home page? (if you want to see the site, PM me and I'll send you a link)
You are in the sales game of running ads to a landing page.

Your friends suggestions are for branding. (mostly)

It definitely won't hurt you to have a proper website, and you should if you want to build a brand over the long term. Right now just sending traffic to a landing page will work, but if you want people to remember you, find you from other traffic sources, etc... you should think more long term about how to build awareness.

Not just from a proper website either...think about why we do business with major companies. People don't buy Coca Cola because it's objectively better tasting or cheaper than anything else. It's about BRAND.

It all depends on your goals. If you want to play the "our ads are profitable right now" and that's all you worry about then that's fine. If you have bigger goals for it then you need to think about how people perceive and remember your company in a larger and long-term way.
 

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