Some questions about web design

[LaneMan]

I watched his interview with a big agency called A Nerd's World and it got me interested in the $2000 web school course that claims to have a ROI of $100k.

The agency charges $1k for Wordpress sites but Fox claims to charge $10K for websites that are much simpler but supposedly has some copywriting and stuff to increase the client's conversions.

The problem is, I haven't seen any of Fox's websites and I don't see any links to them. Where are these legendary websites?

 

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[George Appiah]

Disclaimer: I'm NOT a student of @Fox. I've watched ALL his YouTube videos, including the very video you seem to be referencing. And while I agree with him on most points, I disagree with him on quite a few, including his advice to newbies to build a few free websites to build a portfolio before selling.

That said, you probably should re-watch the said video and dig a little deeper into any material you consume before drawing conclusions, as you seem to have missed key points.

The agency charges $1k for Wordpress sites but Fox claims to charge $10K for websites that are much simpler but supposedly has some copywriting and stuff to increase the client's conversions.

I don't know where you got this $1,000 figure from. But since your sole (or at least a key) argument is why Fox is claiming you can charge $10k for a project while an established agency he interviewed is supposedly charging $1k, one would have thought you'd visit the said agency's website to check their pricing for web design.



If you need help to decipher the above pricing table, the $1,000 is just for their most basic BRONZE WordPress setup, using an off-the-shelf theme customized for you (2 rounds of revisions). That doesn't give you a complete website though: it's just a WordPress site with no page built. A 3-page website would cost $1,900 total... and $300 for EACH additional page.

A 10-page GOLD package (which has a few other WordPress plugins and config thrown in) costs $11,000, plus $300 for EACH additional page. And that's still a basic website/blog, not e-commerce, e-learning, or any complicated setup requiring application-specific plugin(s).

As I said from the onset, I'm not a @Fox student and I can't say anything about his claims. So don't take this as a defence of Fox Web School or an endorsement. I just jumped in to share this because I found the whole premise of your argument flawed.

 

[LaneMan]

Disclaimer: I'm NOT a student of @Fox. I've watched ALL his YouTube videos, including the very video you seem to be referencing. And while I agree with him on most points, I disagree with him on quite a few, including his advice to newbies to build a few free websites to build a portfolio before selling.

That said, you probably should re-watch the said video and dig a little deeper into any material you consume before drawing conclusions, as you seem to have missed key points.



I don't know where you got this $1,000 figure from. But since your sole (or at least a key) argument is why Fox is claiming you can charge $10k for a project while an established agency he interviewed is supposedly charging $1k, one would have thought you'd visit the said agency's website to check their pricing for web design.

View attachment 35107

If you need help to decipher the above pricing table, the $1,000 is just for their most basic BRONZE WordPress setup, using an off-the-shelf theme customized for you (2 rounds of revisions). That doesn't give you a complete website though: it's just a WordPress site with no page built. A 3-page website would cost $1,900 total... and $300 for EACH additional page.

A 10-page GOLD package (which has a few other WordPress plugins and config thrown in) costs $11,000. And that's still a basic website, not e-commerce, e-learning, or any complicated setup requiring application-specific plugin(s).

As I said from the onset, I'm not a @Fox student and I can't say anything about his claims. So don't take this as a defence of Fox Web School or an endorsement. I just jumped in to share this because I found the whole premise of your argument flawed.

You have to understand that the agency charges $11k for a Wordpress site that include a ton of functionality. If you watched Fox's videos you'd know that he uses HTML templates from themeforest to build his sites and he doesn't include a CMS or any dynamic functionality at all (other than contact form).

What I'd like is to see his actual websites. I know pricing in web design varies a lot because the designer can charge whatever he likes so we can't argue much about that.

 

[LaneMan]

Prediction, Fox crushes Lanes in his G Wagon

So basically, I'm the only one who thinks that it's weird that someone says he makes $100K a year selling websites but doesn't have any links to said websites on any of his web channels?

I see where this is going...

 

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[LaneMan]

It never goes well questioning a legendary.
@Black_Dragon43 can attest to that.
Although KFS isn't legendary, he has legendary hordes.

Well I guess I'll never be able to see his websites then. I got excited for nothing.

 

[Ocean Man]

Hi OP, there’s nothing wrong with being cautious especially when you’re considering on purchasing a high-ticket course. All you’re asking for is a bit more evidence of what he’s worked on personally.

Considering you’ve checked out his YouTube video. Maybe try reading through his threads and posts here on the forum. There might be some of his previous work here or there.

Read what has been made available by him and what other people have said and then make a decision.

 

[LaneMan]

Hi OP, there’s nothing wrong with being cautious especially when you’re considering on purchasing a high-ticket course. All you’re asking for is a bit more evidence of what he’s worked on personally.

Considering you’ve checked out his YouTube video. Maybe try reading through his threads and posts here on the forum. There might be some of his previous work here or there.

Read what has been made available by him and what other people have said and then make a decision.

I looked around but didn't find anything he built. On his channel he says that he doesn't show his projects but it doesn't make any sense because it's common sense for a designer to have a publicly available portfolio.

The agency he interviewed lists all of their works on their website.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

It never goes well questioning a legendary.
@Black_Dragon43 can attest to that.
Although KFS isn't legendary, he has legendary hordes.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, I got more clients and exposure out of questioning @Kung Fu Steve than anything else I've ever done in the forum. I've become a household name because of it.


So I think by all means authority should be questioned if they give you reasons to question them, and you're not just doing it for no reason. Smart people respect others who don't follow like sheep. And a community is helped by people who are on guard for possible unscrupulous behavior.

 

[sparechange]

Plot twist, what if laneman has a web dev agency and he is collaborating with black dragon?

 

[LaneMan]

Plot twist, what if laneman has a web dev agency and he is collaborating with black dragon?

I'm gonna need some context here. What did he actually do?

 

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[sparechange]

I'm gonna need some context here. What did he actually do?

Your friend attacked a well known poster on the forum and the popcorn fest began..

 

[LaneMan]

Your friend attacked a well known poster on the forum and the popcorn fest began..

Ok first off he's not my friend but might be in the future because he seems like a cool guy.

Secondly, do you have the link to said thread or have the title in mind so that I can search for it? I would like to know what happens when you question the system.

 

[sparechange]

Ok first off he's not my friend but might be in the future because he seems like a cool guy.

Secondly, do you have the link to said thread or have the title in mind so that I can search for it? I would like to know what happens when you question the system.

I'm sure you could find it with enough effort

 

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[JordanK]

Fox used to pubically showcase sites that he built but since his threads & youtube content became really popular he had to remove them as people were contacting/spamming his clients.

 

[sparechange]

Fox used to pubically showcase sites that he built but since his threads & youtube content became really popular he had to remove them as people were contacting/spamming his clients.

The plot thickens.............

Laneman is the spammer and black dragon is his accomplice!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

So basically, I'm the only one who thinks that it's weird that someone says he makes $100K a year selling websites but doesn't have any links to said websites on any of his web channels?

I see where this is going...

Well, there are a few legit reasons why Fox may not want to share the websites:
1) He is still working with those clients;
2) He has a confidentiality agreement with them which does not allow him to disclose their business relationship. The website itself is publicly available info, so that by itself cannot be under a confidentiality agreement. But his business relationship with the client COULD be.
3) He's worried that people will spam the client or try to steal them.

Now 99.9% there will be at least one case where both (1) and (2) don't hold. Therefore, even if he doesn't do it publicly, Fox SHOULD be able to share stuff with you privately via PM (in case he's worried about 3). Even if he makes you sign an NDA in the worst-case scenario. Although whether he will do that or not is up to him, personally I don't feel that it's sufficient to discredit his work, because look at it this way:
• Even if he never actually did any of this stuff, some of his students obviously have success with what he's teaching them. So for at least SOME people, it's been helpful.
• Someone doesn't actually have to be a doer to be a teacher. Some of the best football coaches for example have never played football themselves at a professional level.

 

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[Deleted74338]

Maybe wants to keep it all private? I would want that too. And he is pretty transparent, he said if I remember correctly that his only source of income is coaching. And there are people who can prove his advice works.

 

[Menery]

The price you can charge depends entirely on the value you create or the problem you solve for your client. In most cases they could not care less how you achieve this

A really simple example.
- You have the skills to double the conversion rate on a landing page of an insurance company that has 10k visitors / month from 2%-4%. If they believe that you are capable of achieving this you can charge whatever you want.
- You increase the conversion rate from 2%-4% for your mom and pop pizza store, you are gonna do it for a sandwhich because thats how much its worth to them.

Same person, same tech stack. You have to change your mindset ans start looking for clients where you can create massive value so that you can charge a percentage of the value created.

 

[LaneMan]

Fox used to pubically showcase sites that he built but since his threads & youtube content became really popular he had to remove them as people were contacting/spamming his clients.

That's a pretty nice excuse reason. I might start using that when my prospects ask me why my portfolio is so small.

Well, there are a few legit reasons why Fox may not want to share the websites:
1) He is still working with those clients;
2) He has a confidentiality agreement with them which does not allow him to disclose their business relationship. The website itself is publicly available info, so that by itself cannot be under a confidentiality agreement. But his business relationship with the client COULD be.
3) He's worried that people will spam the client or try to steal them.

Now 99.9% there will be at least one case where both (1) and (2) don't hold. Therefore, even if he doesn't do it publicly, Fox SHOULD be able to share stuff with you privately via PM (in case he's worried about 3). Even if he makes you sign an NDA in the worst-case scenario. Although whether he will do that or not is up to him, personally I don't feel that it's sufficient to discredit his work, because look at it this way:
• Even if he never actually did any of this stuff, some of his students obviously have success with what he's teaching them. So for at least SOME people, it's been helpful.
• Someone doesn't actually have to be a doer to be a teacher. Some of the best football coaches for example have never played football themselves at a professional level.

It doesn't make sense because during his sales calls, the client says that he came across a website that he made. So he probably has his contact info in the footer of the client's website or something.

I agree about the teacher not being a doer part though. That's how most people make money anyway. They make money by teaching you how to make money.

And there are people who can prove his advice works.

You mean anonymous people on the Internet?

 

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[LaneMan]

The price you can charge depends entirely on the value you create or the problem you solve for your client. In most cases they could not care less how you achieve this

A really simple example.
- You have the skills to double the conversion rate on a landing page of an insurance company that has 10k visitors / month from 2%-4%. If they believe that you are capable of achieving this you can charge whatever you want.
- You increase the conversion rate from 2%-4% for your mom and pop pizza store, you are gonna do it for a sandwhich because thats how much its worth to them.

Same person, same tech stack. You have to change your mindset ans start looking for clients where you can create massive value so that you can charge a percentage of the value created.

Sure, I already said that pricing varies a lot.

I just want some examples of websites he made that provided massive value to his clients. I don't believe there's anything wrong in asking for proof when someone makes bold claims.

 

[Deleted74338]

That's a pretty nice excuse. I might start using that when my prospects ask me why my portfolio is so small.



It doesn't make sense because during his sales calls, the client says that he came across a website that he made. So he probably has his contact info in the footer of the client's website or something.

I agree about the teacher not being a doer part though. That's how most people make money anyway. They make money by teaching you how to make money.



You mean anonymous people on the Internet?

Dude just do it yourself, what is the point of arguing? You don't have to buy his course to achieve those things, just like you don't have to buy a course to learn coding, there are free resources out there already. Learn coding, read about how to sell and just do it, then you will see. Buying his course won't automatically get you there.

 

[LaneMan]

Dude just do it yourself, what is the point of arguing? You don't have to buy his course to achieve those things, just like you don't have to buy a course to learn coding, there are free resources out there already. Learn coding, read about how to sell and just do it, then you will see. Buying his course won't automatically get you there.

Nah, I've made up my mind to enroll in his course because I want to make $100K per year.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

It doesn't make sense because during his sales calls, the client says that he came across a website that he made. So he probably has his contact info in the footer of the client's website or something.

You never know... maybe the client recommended someone from the same industry, so that's how the person on the call knew that Fox made it. Or maybe they called up the company and asked. Who knows...

And that still doesn't solve the spam problem, even if it is as you say.

I agree about the teacher not being a doer part though. That's how most people make money anyway. They make money by teaching you how to make money.

I think that's a legit way to make money though. Of course it depends on how you do it and the claims made, but in and of itself I don't find an issue with that. I make around 10% of my money teaching others how to build sales funnels (to make money) - whether through consultancy or selling my course. I wish that percentage was greater. And here's why: I could spend my time doing the stuff that will make you money for you and a few other people OR I can basically transfer that SAME knowledge that I have into your head or the heads of your team members, and then many more people can do it.

As Elon Musk would say, it's just a question of the most effective way of transferring the knowledge. I can transfer it by building a funnel for you... Or I can sell you a course/system or consultancy for 1-10% of the price, and transfer that knowledge to 10,000 times more people that way.

Because in the end what stands between you and success is the knowledge.

And what people really want anyway is websites that sell... you can't really do that with websites anymore, since conversions are so small. Now sales funnels are the new game, and there's only a handful of people on the entire planet that have the direct response background and technical expertise to know how this more advanced, customer-centric sales process works and how to set it up.

So if you can build a $100K funnel, then you can easily take $10K. The missing ingredient is knowledge, which can be acquired by buying the right material, OR by experience, and of course hard work. Once you start thinking FUNNELS instead of WEBSITES, you income will go through the roof, almost instantly.

 

[LaneMan]

You never know... maybe the client recommended someone from the same industry, so that's how the person on the call knew that Fox made it. Or maybe they called up the company and asked. Who knows...

And that still doesn't solve the spam problem, even if it is as you say.


I think that's a legit way to make money though. Of course it depends on how you do it and the claims made, but in and of itself I don't find an issue with that. I make around 10% of my money teaching others how to build sales funnels (to make money) - whether through consultancy or selling my course. I wish that percentage was greater. And here's why: I could spend my time doing the stuff that will make you money for you and a few other people OR I can basically transfer that SAME knowledge that I have into your head or the heads of your team members, and then many more people can do it.

As Elon Musk would say, it's just a question of the most effective way of transferring the knowledge. I can transfer it by building a funnel for you... Or I can sell you a course/system or consultancy for 1-10% of the price, and transfer that knowledge to 10,000 times more people that way.

Because in the end what stands between you and success is the knowledge.

And what people really want anyway is websites that sell... you can't really do that with websites anymore, since conversions are so small. Now sales funnels are the new game, and there's only a handful of people on the entire planet that have the direct response background and technical expertise to know how this more advanced, customer-centric sales process works and how to set it up.

So if you can build a $100K funnel, then you can easily take $10K. The missing ingredient is knowledge, which can be acquired by buying the right material, OR by experience, and of course hard work.

I don't get the spam problem to be honest. Every company will put their contact info on their website and digital marketers are scraping their info for their blasting campaigns. For example, your company can be contacted at office@tandacopywriting.com and you have your website in your signature. What's stopping people from spamming you exactly? And what kind of spam are we talking about here? I can email you right now and try to sell you my web development services and I'm sure you've received a million requests like that already.

Also, I'm not against making money by selling money making techniques. I think it's completely legit.

My goal for this thread is go get a few example sites that Fox sold for $10K and where the client made massive sales as a result. So far it's all been said and written in words without anything concrete being shown.

As a matter of fact, when he shares this stuff, people reading this thread might be more willing to enroll as well, which means more money in his bank account. It's a win win situation.

 

[loop101]

That's a pretty nice excuse. I might start using that when my prospects ask me why my portfolio is so small.

You asked for a reason, you were given the reason, and you rejected the reason as an excuse. If you don't believe the answer you were given, why do you think anyone else would bother to give you any more answers? You are wasting people's time when you casually disregard their answers to your questions.

 

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[LaneMan]

You asked for a reason, you were given the reason, and you rejected the reason as an excuse. If you don't believe the answer you were given, why do you think anyone else would bother to give you any more answers? You are wasting people's time when you casually disregard their answers to your questions.

Ok I apologize, I meant reason. English isn't my first language and I made an interpretation mistake there.

 

[JordanK]

You really should just have DM’d him instead of trying to call him out in a thread. I’m a previous client and friend of his. We’ve met in person many times and travelled from Europe together for the Summit in Phoenix last February. I have seen plenty of websites that he has built and he has shared them with others too.

The spam that I was referring too was not just your generic typical spam that you ignore. People were calling & emailing the companies asking if they were real and telling them “Oh I’m a better website designer than Fox and I can do a new even better site for x price. Multiply that by hundreds/thousands of inquisitive people like yourself that read his threads & watch his youtube vidoes and yes it becomes a major problem.

Not wasting anymore time with this thread. Your attitude sucks. Fix that first before you ever go into business. You have a scarcity mindset and you are pissing off people who could possibly help you along your journey. Wrong approach imo.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

For example, your company can be contacted at office@tandacopywriting.com and you have your website in your signature. What's stopping people from spamming you exactly?

Spam bots will typically automatically submit the contact form knowing the website. That doesn't work on mine.

In addition, I get around 5-10 emails of spam per day anyway, I don't care. They automatically go to spam, since my email client is set up that way.

But you know those antiquated, old businessmen how they are... they're not like us younger people. They get a spam message and freak out. So they don't like it and don't know how to deal with it.

I can email you right now and try to sell you my web development services and I'm sure you've received a million requests like that already.

Sure, every day I get requests for people looking for a copywriting job, web design services, SEO, people pointing that this link or that link is broken on the website, don't you want to replace it with my article and on and on.

 

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[LaneMan]

You really should just have DM’d him instead of trying to call him out in a thread. I’m a previous client and friend of his. We’ve met in person many times and travelled from Europe together for the Summit in Phoenix last February. I have seen plenty of websites that he has built and he has shared them with others too.

The spam that I was referring too was not just your generic typical spam that you ignore. People were calling & emailing the companies asking if they were real and telling them “Oh I’m a better website designer than Fox and I can do a new even better site for x price. Multiply that by hundreds/thousands of inquisitive people like yourself that read his threads & watch his youtube vidoes and yes it becomes a major problem.

Not wasting anymore time with this thread. Your attitude sucks. Fix that first before you ever go into business. You have a scarcity mindset and you are pissing off people who could possibly help you along your journey. Wrong approach imo.

1. I didn't call out anyone, I just wanted some input from real people. This is a forum and we're supposed to start threads to discuss things. If you don't like that then you're in the wrong place.

2. Just because you claim to be his friend and saw his work doesn't mean I should believe you. If you think I should then by your logic you should believe that I'm friend with Donal Trump and that we trained together at Gold's gym yesterday.

3. Spam is spam, it doesn't matter what kind. If you have any online presence at all, you get spammed. Hell, I have a tiny business and I get spammed.

4. If you think my attitude sucks because I ask questions then you're in the wrong community.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I've sold an $8,000+ website using Fox's course. It was the second website I ever sold. A wordpress template.

The site has been modified at least three times by others and looks nothing like what I delivered. Also, I am not a web designer and I haven't tried to sell any other websites since.

The company makes $50k to $100k+ on every sale they earn. So dropping $8k+ on a website wasn't a big deal for them.

That said, I don't consider myself representative of the status quo and I have experience selling other high-ticket items.