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Invented Product: Testing Market w/ Amazon Product Listing and Facebook Ads

Chibbs

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Hey all,

I recently started a new ecommerce business venture. When I moved to a new house and installed by weight room in the basement. I realized the I-joist ceiling was the perfect place to hang pullup bars & monkey bars. I came up with a design that allowed me to create a pull up bar product with a piece of steel pipe and some 3D printed parts.

I have since filed a provisional patent, generated a ton of marketing content, and listed on amazon FBM and PPC the next day. I have everything sorted out for the installation manual, product packing, etc. so the product is ready to ship.

This is where I'm a bit stuck. I would like to test the concept as quickly as possible, but I also don't want to waste advertising money bringing people to a product listing when I could be creating a sales funnel to capture emails and engagement. My plan now is to create a facebook ad to target market market and generate awareness of the product. However, I am reading up and most people suggest using a landing page to gather leads, which would require more efffort and money from me (seems like a product video is crucuial to landing page success).

I am wondering, in this type of situation, what would you all suggest a guy do. Immediately create a facebook ad to drive customers to my amazon listing or take the time to set up the sales funnel first?
 
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but I also don't want to waste advertising money bringing people to a product listing when I could be creating a sales funnel to capture emails and engagement.

Why wouldn't you want to bring people directly to product page if you have a product that is ready to ship? Do you want emails or do you want sales?

I suggest running Facebook ads for conversion objective and have them run direct to your product page. You don't need a video for this to get started just have good pics and copy and get started. If you don't have any sales start with low budget and work on optimizing your page.

Not sure where you saw advice to capture leads and emails instead of selling. All situations are different but in e-commerce context if you have a product ready to sell go direct response for the sale.

If you're new to fb ads then test a few creatives using objective conversion landing page view. See which ones have highest ctr after a couple thousand impressions and then use the winning post for a conversion purchase objective. You can run low budget engagement campaign using the same post id to get some social proof on the winning creative. Use the same post id for conversion objective and test different audiences. Rinse repeat test test test
 
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Are you looking to build your sales around paid marketing?

I would say that your biggest issues with running FB ads to a physical product in the sub $50 arena is profitability. You are learning how to run FB ads at the most expensive time of year with the run up to Christmas. As a result you are likely to be running negatively the entire season unless you have a great funnel with strong upsells.

The only glimmer of hope I see to making profit is early January when you can guarantee lower ad costs and you can capitalise on the New Years Resolution brigade who will be out in full force with the ‘lose weight and get fit’ promises to themselves.
 

Chibbs

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Why wouldn't you want to bring people directly to product page if you have a product that is ready to ship? Do you want emails or do you want sales?

I suggest running Facebook ads for conversion objective and have them run direct to your product page. You don't need a video for this to get started just have good pics and copy and get started. If you don't have any sales start with low budget and work on optimizing your page.

Not sure where you saw advice to capture leads and emails instead of selling. All situations are different but in e-commerce context if you have a product ready to sell go direct response for the sale.

If you're new to fb ads then test a few creatives using objective conversion landing page view. See which ones have highest ctr after a couple thousand impressions and then use the winning post for a conversion purchase objective. You can run low budget engagement campaign using the same post id to get some social proof on the winning creative. Use the same post id for conversion objective and test different audiences. Rinse repeat test test test

Wow, this basically confirms my initial thinking. I love the idea of a/b testing the creatives.

My experience with FB ads limited, so I'm a bit lost in the jargon but I'm sure it won't take me long! Looking into setting these ads up now. Thanks
 

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I am basically funding the marketing from my own pocket until I can get sales going (crossing fingers). I feel the quickest would be to run the ads straight to amazon to see if I can get at least a few bites and then roll out a proper funnel.
That's also a good way. Be sure to set budget gradually. People advise $5-$10 a day budget for a start on FB to test waters. You can increase budget anytime so no problem in doing it quicker -when you'll get more comfortable with the system.
 
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Chibbs

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What would a successful test of concept look like to you? If it's organic sales through Amazon then you'd need to rank for the search terms you are targeting and have reviews. What's your plan for these?
I rank no-where near the top in amazon. Right now I have no reviews and even my PPC campaign has had no results thus far. My product is sufficiently unique that it is different that anything else out there. I would like to drive people to the listing, get sales, get reviews, and slowly move up the organic rankings.
 

Chibbs

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I haven't updated in awhile but things are going fine. I have sold around 10 of the items so far. No thanks to Amazon PPC, which has yielded no results after around 30 clicks. I think the sales are related to posts I've made on facebook groups and organic sales through amazon.

Good news is, I have my first review! So that should help with the conversion rate.

As for the facebook ads, I should have a video ad done today (Fiverr), so should get that going this weekend. I am not planning to do a ianding page, but instead I will use facebook to currate my audience for retargeting purposes. I am expecting sales to pick up once I roll out the facebook ad. Stay tuned!
 
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Chibbs

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Product video is complete! So I started facebook ads today. I am sending people to my amazon page directly but also think it will help grow my facebook product page. I will let you all know how it goes. Keeping the budget low at $3/day to see where that gets me.
 

Chibbs

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This is quickly turning into a progress thread. Unfortunately, no sales since last week but I have a couple of facebook ads running now, starting to grow the facebook page for the company as well.

1606870542018.png
I'm still running the amazon PPC but it has failed to convert thus far. I'm getting very few impressions right now because I limited to the keywords that would lead to a higher conversion rate. Only got 16 impressions yesterday :( I'm fine with it though, I really think facebook allows me to promote my product and pique interest. Hopefully it will result in some sales soon! I'll keep you all posted
 
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Chibbs

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The facebook ad has finally converted. First sale since I started them. Here are my stats so far.

1607128152650.png
I am considering doing a second ad with a different description and see which one get more clicks. The glaring problem I am seeing now is that I am sending people to amazon but don't know if the sale can be attributed to the facebook ad or if it was simply an organic sale from Amazon.
 

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If i were you i would capture leads on YOUR website.
It can be something simple done on free websites like wix.

If your ad budget is small, email would give you ability to resend your message
for fraction of the cost (instead of having them click CPC again).

If your budget isn't that limited, do ads to Amazon listing.
If people will buy, create website with lead capture to maximise return on ad spend.
 

Chibbs

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If i were you i would capture leads on YOUR website.
It can be something simple done on free websites like wix.

If your ad budget is small, email would give you ability to resend your message
for fraction of the cost (instead of having them click CPC again).

If your budget isn't that limited, do ads to Amazon listing.
If people will buy, create website with lead capture to maximise return on ad spend.
So you're saying, set up a landing page to capture leads and direct them to the amazon listing would maximize my return on ad spend. Seems to be a trade off here. As in this method would be better long term but longer to implement.

I am basically funding the marketing from my own pocket until I can get sales going (crossing fingers). I feel the quickest would be to run the ads straight to amazon to see if I can get at least a few bites and then roll out a proper funnel.
 

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I rank no-where near the top in amazon. Right now I have no reviews and even my PPC campaign has had no results thus far. My product is sufficiently unique that it is different that anything else out there. I would like to drive people to the listing, get sales, get reviews, and slowly move up the organic rankings.

PPC is hard to convert when you have no reviews. Can you get some through friends & family (make sure they don't live in the same household)? Lot's of sellers use full rebates to get the initial reviews. (Ad -> Manychat flow / landing page -> Amazon super url / SearchFindBuy method -> 1 week later customer submits review and you give them a rebate through paypal / giftcard).

Fb ads to landing page with super url will get you ranking for keywords in no time if your product is priced low or you use a deep discount code.
 
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Would you suggest I start my own website versus selling amazon? I'm not tied to anything here, just thought amazon would be easiest way to get listed.

Yes, I'm running Amazon PPC but don't think I'm getting any traction their since my product has no reviews.

Edit-- Price point is $25-55 range

How does your listing look? Run ppc ads to it and drop the price to $14.99 and you will get sales.
 

Chibbs

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Just a quick update.

I am still running my amazon PPC campaign but I lowered the price of the product to under $20.

Right now I need to get the first sales and also test out which quantity the buyer is typically going to purchase (the product works as a system, I believe 2 will be the most common).

Today I am going to be learning facebook ads, pixel, etc so I get a better understanding of it. Hopefully can get this thing going!

What do you all think about asking friends to purchase and review the product? Is that viable?
 

OverByte

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Would you suggest I start my own website versus selling amazon? I'm not tied to anything here, just thought amazon would be easiest way to get listed.

Yes, I'm running Amazon PPC but don't think I'm getting any traction their since my product has no reviews.

Edit-- Price point is $25-55 range

Re: website vs amazon. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Pros to amazon are that the platform is provided for you and it provides a ready to go infrastructure along with access to a market, PPC abilities and probably most importantly TRUST. People will buy things on amazon from unknown brands because they know amazon will back them if the product turns out to be faulty. The con is you lose control which is the pro of the website route. With your own website you have greater control over the listing and probably most importantly have access to the appropriate metrics and retargeting abilities. This is the biggest benefit. The biggest con with your own site in my opinion is the lack of trust you must overcome with new customers. Reviews are a big part of overcoming this but there are other ways to get around it as well. Like offering a guarantee, lower price point to start with to reduce risk, you could also indicate the sale is limited and stick a NEW badge or something next to the product (these are all strategies for selling on your own site, not all applicable/possible on Amazon)

If you have a profitable product ideally you do both (amazon and own site), which one you want to start with is debatable.

As some other posters mentioned the price point of $25 will be challenging to run profitable PPC, even if that was 100% margin. If you have a $50-55 product though with a 50% margin or better I think PPC can work for you.

Also you can lower your price point to get initial sales and reviews but don't have to sustain that breakeven/loss price point. I believe @biophase has described a strategy similar to that for a new brand in his AMA (which is excellent and you should definitely read if you haven't and follow him as he provides valuable insight into the e-commerce industry). Basically if you think the product can be profitably you can sell at a loss to get reviews to climb through the rankings, note that is an Amazon strategy since Amazon will reward you with higher placement once you get reviews. On your own website I would say this is less valuable.

How much have you spent on PPC so far without any sales (would be good if you gave a breakdown of amazon vs facebook)? Also is this the first product you're selling? If so it's possible your product is ok but your listing is the problem...
 
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@Chibbs I think you should first define, what exactly you want to test. a) If the product itself is working for customers (like if they understand the concept, are able to use it, like the quality etc.) or b) if you can sell the product to someone = if there is a market for your product.

In your initial post for me it sounds like a), because you write "I would like to test the concept as quickly as possible, ...." In this case, the numbers about the ads, how much you spent etc. are not interesting, because in this phase, you don't want to test the market :)

I had the same problem: My (digital) product is ready as a prototype and I wanted to test, if people like it. But I wasn't able to sell it. It took me weeks to figure out, that it was the best for me, to first go for b) - if the market is ready and THEN, after I sold a few, to collect the feedback about the product from real customers.

My suggestion:
"My solution" to first go for b) won't work for you, because you want to get quickly reviews for Amazon. I think in this case it's even more important, that you know, that your product works as expected and people like it (meaning a). Otherwise you get bad reviews...

Therefore I'd focus on a) and for this the best way is to give out a bunch of your products for free in exchange for a review via e-mail (based on a questionnaire provided by you). If the reviews are positive, you know that your product works AND you have access to real customers. Ask them, if they can add this review also at Amazon and the most people will do ;)

How to get customers, that you can hand out the product for free? Facebook groups. Just become member of some groups, where you think your target audience is present. Be honest and tell them, that you'd like to test a new product and want to have feedback. Explain the idea of the product with a picture and create scarcity by saying: "Only the first [number of people you're willing to get a free product] until this Sunday will get it" and most likely you will get some testers. Use this chance to also understand demographics and WHY people think, they would need your product. This helps you optimizing your campaigns (targeting, keywords etc.) later on.

When you have reviews you can go on with Amazon PPC and in parallel with Facebook ads and a landing page with real testimonials. You know then much more about your target audience, know that your product works - then you are ready to test the market - it only took you X products for free and time. Testing the market with a product that is proven is much better than the other way around. Because you have lots of options to test the market (channels, price, ads, copy, images etc.) but limited options to change the product ;)

For my product I didn't chose this way, because I was able to test my prototype with people around me. I saw, that it works, therefore I went on with b) and get more feedback from real customers afterwards.

And finally: Congrats that you went this far with your product already! I feel with you - I'm still figuring out, how to place my product in the market (also fitness) correct, but every week there is progress!
 
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Chibbs

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@Chibbs I think you should first define, what exactly you want to test. a) If the product itself is working for customers (like if they understand the concept, are able to use it, like the quality etc.) or b) if you can sell the product to someone = if there is a market for your product.

In your initial post for me it sounds like a), because you write "I would like to test the concept as quickly as possible, ...." In this case, the numbers about the ads, how much you spent etc. are not interesting, because in this phase, you don't want to test the market :)

I had the same problem: My (digital) product is ready as a prototype and I wanted to test, if people like it. But I wasn't able to sell it. It took me weeks to figure out, that it was the best for me, to first go for b) - if the market is ready and THEN, after I sold a few, to collect the feedback about the product from real customers.

My suggestion:
"My solution" to first go for b) won't work for you, because you want to get quickly reviews for Amazon. I think in this case it's even more important, that you know, that your product works as expected and people like it (meaning a). Otherwise you get bad reviews...

Therefore I'd focus on a) and for this the best way is to give out a bunch of your products for free in exchange for a review via e-mail (based on a questionnaire provided by you). If the reviews are positive, you know that your product works AND you have access to real customers. Ask them, if they can add this review also at Amazon and the most people will do ;)

How to get customers, that you can hand out the product for free? Facebook groups. Just become member of some groups, where you think your target audience is present. Be honest and tell them, that you'd like to test a new product and want to have feedback. Explain the idea of the product with a picture and create scarcity by saying: "Only the first [number of people you're willing to get a free product] until this Sunday will get it" and most likely you will get some testers. Use this chance to also understand demographics and WHY people think, they would need your product. This helps you optimizing your campaigns (targeting, keywords etc.) later on.

When you have reviews you can go on with Amazon PPS and in parallel with Facebook ads and a landing page with real testimonials. You know then much more about your target audience, know that your product works - then you are ready to test the market - it only took you X products for free and time. Testing the market with a product that is proven is much better than the other way around. Because you have lots of options to test the market (channels, price, ads, copy, images etc.) but limited options to change the product ;)

For my product I didn't chose this way, because I was able to test my prototype with people around me. I saw, that it works, therefore I went on with b) and get more feedback from real customers afterwards.

And finally: Congrats that you went this far with your product already! I feel with you - I'm still figuring out, how to place my product in the market (also fitness) correct, but every week there is progress!
Dude, love it!

Yes I think I will need to go the facebook route. I think testing the market for something like this on amazon is not going to be as quick and dirty as I thought it would be. Totally understand the concept from a SW standpoint (day job), so I like that approach. Definitely can still iterate on the design, however, I do not think a design improvement would make a difference for the customer.

I will start looking into these groups. Have you done this before? Wondering if I would join as my business page profile or personal? Anyone have experience with this??
 
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Chibbs

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Interesting product and marketing experiment. Thank you very much for sharing.

- Is this product for an unfinished room such as a basement or garage ? or just any room in a house ?
- If yes above, is there a way to target people as they move into new homes, or when they are looking to install a new gym in their garage / basement ? This must be pretty popular now that many rather not go to gyms.
- Have you considered licensing it ? (I am interested in this path for a few ideas of my own)
Glad you are enjoying it!

Yes, it's intended for an unfinished basement, most modern homes (last 20 years) would be compatible. What piqued my interest in facebook was the microtargeting, I can target people who just moved, for example.

I do not think it would work in most garage gyms, but I could create a secondary offering that works for these, although my guess is it would double my manufacturing costs.
 

Chibbs

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Update: Facebook has deactivated my facebook ads privileges because of "suspicous" activity. Whatever that means!

On the bright side, I did get another sale today. That will help. I am on the verge of being profitable for the month. Still need a few more months of sales at this level to be profitable on the year with all of the upfront costs.
 
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Chibbs

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Facebook ads are back up and running. Had a decent week this week but might be running into an issue. The Amazon money is tied up. I have around $500 is profit (amazon profit) this month but am only being distributed $150 on the 18th. It will barely cover my costs. Does anyone have experience with the "account level reserve" algorithm on amazon?
 

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Time for a little update.

The product sold fairly well through the holidays. I am making decent margins on the 1-pack variation but the 4-pack is where I am really doing well. I have sold more four packs in fact that I have sold 1's. The problem is, my reviews are all on the single variation SKU.

I'm considering going to FBA for at least the 4-pack variation, since I've sold around 4/month. I did release the product on 11/1, so there is a bit of a concern there about sales slowing post-Christmas. I currently am sending the packages (4 and 1 pack) in exactly the same box, so I get the same price shipping regardless with the Priority Mail cubic option. This helps on the margins for the 4-pack.

This weekend I am going to pick up a bunch of materials and do a production run to send in to Amazon prime. Hopefully can have this fully operational by the end of the month. Unfortunately for me I contracted COVID two weeks ago and can't go pick up supplies until the quarantine window is closed!

A few things on my radar (but not pursuing yet). Any words of wisdom on from you experienced vets would be appreciated!

- Shopify website
- Marketing sales funnel optimization
Currently running facebook video ads directly to amazon, no email capture
- Second new product (working on prototypes for a product that fills a need in the same industry)
- New facebook video ad for purposes of retargeting people who have clicked on my initial video ads

I think the key on my marketing efforts is going to be to find my niche. I have had great reaction to the product, but it's only for a small niche and a lot of people won't have a home gym that is compatible with my product. I have been messing with different targeting options on facebook ads but that is it. I would like to curate a group to use as a "lookalike audience" that converts.
 

FitRay

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Time for a little update.

The product sold fairly well through the holidays. I am making decent margins on the 1-pack variation but the 4-pack is where I am really doing well. I have sold more four packs in fact that I have sold 1's. The problem is, my reviews are all on the single variation SKU.

I'm considering going to FBA for at least the 4-pack variation, since I've sold around 4/month. I did release the product on 11/1, so there is a bit of a concern there about sales slowing post-Christmas. I currently am sending the packages (4 and 1 pack) in exactly the same box, so I get the same price shipping regardless with the Priority Mail cubic option. This helps on the margins for the 4-pack.

This weekend I am going to pick up a bunch of materials and do a production run to send in to Amazon prime. Hopefully can have this fully operational by the end of the month. Unfortunately for me I contracted C0VlD two weeks ago and can't go pick up supplies until the quarantine window is closed!

A few things on my radar (but not pursuing yet). Any words of wisdom on from you experienced vets would be appreciated!

- Shopify website
- Marketing sales funnel optimization
Currently running facebook video ads directly to amazon, no email capture
- Second new product (working on prototypes for a product that fills a need in the same industry)
- New facebook video ad for purposes of retargeting people who have clicked on my initial video ads

I think the key on my marketing efforts is going to be to find my niche. I have had great reaction to the product, but it's only for a small niche and a lot of people won't have a home gym that is compatible with my product. I have been messing with different targeting options on facebook ads but that is it. I would like to curate a group to use as a "lookalike audience" that converts.

Any update on your latest progress?
 

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Thanks for the prompt @FitRay ... Here is a little update.

I've still been selling pretty steadily over the course of the year. I've pretty much stopped advertising as I haven't had much success with it. All of my sales are organic through amazon, meaning I have no idea about the customer journey to finding my product. I'm really not sure what else to do with it other than just let it ride and take the $200/month it makes me. (Happy to listen to anyone that has had success selling straight from amazon. )

With that being said, I've been putting my profits back into product development. I have a second product that I am going to be releasing before the holiday rush. It is another specialty fitness device and targets hardcore fitness people (home gym and professional/athlete type people). The cost of this product is much more than the previous and the market is once again niche. The product allows customers to strength train more efficiently than with standard weights or bands. So my R&D and first batch cost has got me cash strapped at the moment. I'm hoping to get this product launched soon! My guess is I can make around $200/unit with a price tag between $5-650.
 
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Great progress @Chibbs. I am just tuning in.

Sounds like we have remotely similar products and the same target audience.

I recently launched a fitness accessory product on Amazon as the first product of my brand. It's doing just fine in the launch phase, even though I am not profitable just yet. There are several strategies, techniques to use when it comes to launching products on Amazon.

What specifically haven't worked with your amazon PPC, so I could offer more tailored advice?
Feel free to msg me or just reply here.
 

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I'd say there is a big opportunity to set up some funnels and e-mail campaigns.
I'm currently in a similar process - but my products are 100% digital. There we some successful sales and now I try to scale it. I'm currently setting up sales funnels and e-mail campaigns and reading your message it appears to me that it could be also an option for you.

You create basically a one-pager landing page for your specific niche and you explain/sell it to your customers. Then you lead them to your amazon-page. This Funnel would consist of an Ad, the Landing page and your amazon product page.

You mentioned, that you stopped campaigns. What campaigns where that? Directly within Amazon? From Facebook and then directly on the amazon-product? If so, setting up a sales page in between could work wonders.

Second approach would be setting up a landing page and then collecting e-mails addresses in exchange for a free e-book, video or stuff. Then you sell your product to your e-mail-list. The final sale would happen again within Amazon.
I did try a landing page earlier in the year (landingcube) but didn't have much succcess. Drove a few people to the page but wasn't able to get them past the landing page to the amazon page. Most of my success getting them to the landing page was from facebook ads. I tried youtube ads too but it didn't work out.

I really like some of your ideas from earlier in the year where you suggest using facebook groups. I just recorded some videos and photos of my prototype for the new product and will see what kind of response I get from them. I'd like to find a way to get people to use the product in exchange for the reviews when I launch.

So for now, I'm pushing to get things to launch with the new product but I won't get parts in until late October, after which I will need to take product photos and get that listing up ASAP. Need to try to get this off the ground for the holiday rush!
 

Chibbs

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If you are interested, this 2 books can give good input:
Jeff Walker - product launch formula
Russel Brunson - dotcom secrets

--> I can't guarantee, that they work, because I test it by myself, but just reading them was a great help for me. Maybe for you too.

As you are setting up an additional product, I think this book can also give some advise (especially first 25 - 40 %):
Michael Masterson - Ready, Fire, Aim

What do you think? Might work for you or do you have other experiences?
I will definitely check out the Jeff Walker book. I develop products as part of my actual job, but our distribution channels are already solidified. This eCommerce stuff is new for me. I'm confident in my ability to identify problems and find an innovative solution, but getting the word out is another thing!

Thanks for the recommendation. What would you say were your takeaways from the dotcom secrets book? I am very interested in the software side of things in the future. I have some offshore connections to developers that I could partner with given the right resources.

If I'm able to get some steady cash flow from these first couple simple products, I will use that money to finance future products in the domain of sw/hw/human interfaces, which is where my experience is professionally.
 

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Please keep in mind that you cannot do proper attribution if you do (non-amazon) PPC to Amazon listing directly.
 
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samuraijack

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Hey all,

I recently started a new ecommerce business venture. When I moved to a new house and installed by weight room in the basement. I realized the I-joist ceiling was the perfect place to hang pullup bars & monkey bars. I came up with a design that allowed me to create a pull up bar product with a piece of steel pipe and some 3D printed parts.

I have since filed a provisional patent, generated a ton of marketing content, and listed on amazon FBM and PPC the next day. I have everything sorted out for the installation manual, product packing, etc. so the product is ready to ship.

This is where I'm a bit stuck. I would like to test the concept as quickly as possible, but I also don't want to waste advertising money bringing people to a product listing when I could be creating a sales funnel to capture emails and engagement. My plan now is to create a facebook ad to target market market and generate awareness of the product. However, I am reading up and most people suggest using a landing page to gather leads, which would require more efffort and money from me (seems like a product video is crucuial to landing page success).

I am wondering, in this type of situation, what would you all suggest a guy do. Immediately create a facebook ad to drive customers to my amazon listing or take the time to set up the sales funnel first?
What would a successful test of concept look like to you? If it's organic sales through Amazon then you'd need to rank for the search terms you are targeting and have reviews. What's your plan for these?
 

OverByte

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What's the product price point? Higher priced products will typically have longer cycles and benefit heavily from retargeting.

Also, I'd like to caveat my initial post and say that I did not realize you were running the fb ads to amazon vs your own site, as @maverick pointed out your attribution will be off and this may affect fb ad performance. Someone more experienced with fb and Amazon may be able to let you know. My experience is with fb to my own site. Still I think the method I laid out is the fastest to get you sales. I also believe fb has the ability to upload conversion data manually so if you get sales on amazon this may be a way where you can get proper attribution back to your adsets which will be important for ad performance as well as creating lla's in the future. You can still retarget based on post engagement audiences even if running on amazon though these won't be as good as website visitor retargeting. I suggest you start retargeting with a small budget ad set. Keep your eye on frequency if your audience size is small. Keep budget low so you aren't spamming your ads with a 5x frequency
 
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