Idea Generation To Execution: Fastlane Millionaire's Step By Step Guide

NeoDialectic · Apr 19, 2022

After posting my general advice post here , I realized that one of the most burning questions that people struggle with is "how do I come up with an idea that isn't already done?" and "how do I test whether I can successfully sell this product without a huge investment?".

This is the first time I am writing down this process on paper, but this process in general is one of the ways my business partner and I have successfully launched multiple big products that have been in the hands of hundreds of thousands of happy customers.

Hopefully this thread will show you how to do that with a real step by step example of how to do this. I will also try to include my reasoning for decisions along the way. So this will be a long thread with multiple parts. Even though I have already went through the example all the way through posting; Writing detailed accounts take a long time. So today I am tackling the idea generation part. Depending on the response over the next week or so, I will add a post detailing how to bootstrap your way through successfully testing the product. I can also add a post detailing a few unsuccessful iterations, to showcase what failed attempts look like.

Disclaimers:

This is FAR from the only way to do this. By providing the following steps, I am not saying that this is the best way to start a business. But these are difficult questions to answer in an actionable and generalizable fashion, so I have chosen a niche and path that I could do just that. I believe others methods have been posted before on these forums. For example like searching for everyday items on Amazon and seeing what all the 1 star reviews have in common and solve that issue.
The best way to think of an idea is to be familiar with a product or field and try to solve an issue that you or someone you know runs into. In this exercise I am attempting to answer not just how to test a product, but also how to come up with an idea when your mind is running completely blank. The point is to show that the only thing holding you back is your willingness to put in work/time and not your experience/age/finances/etc. If you have an advantage in either of those (know a problem to solve or you have sufficient finances to fund faster experimentation) then I would recommend using that.
You are taking a peek at my exact process that I would take to think of and test a product under these circumstances. That means I have not actually made and tested this product but I actually do believe this would be a good product to test. My bar here would be to test X amount of products and only 1 has to catch on to be a success.
My example will be testing on Amazon as it is the most lucrative marketplace and simultaneously probably the hardest to do so as your are playing by their stringent rules. However you can apply the same methods for any other marketplace and/or search engine and you would just be dealing with less traffic but likely have more control.
If you want to copy any part of this, you can. But please know that I only went surface level for the purpose of this exercise. I don't endorse any of the companies mentioned (I haven't necessarily worked with them) and I haven't done all the legal research and due diligence.

Prelude:

What do I need?

An Amazon seller account
Willingness to spend $50-$200 on product and another couple hundred on advertising. There may be cheaper ways to do this with close to zero investment and I will annotate those options, but they all come with drawbacks

The Idea Framework:

When starting to brainstorm ideas from scratch, I am thinking about the question "what scenario or group of people can I provide value to in a specific way that others haven't?" Thinking about the question this way helps me find a niche. Here is an outline of the steps that you can follow.

Think of attributes that separate people into groups with possible unique needs or requirements. Example: Height, age, sex,race,hair color, eye color, skin color, disability or special needs, left/right handedness, location, etc...
Think of questions that could expose unique needs that these people would have just as a byproduct of being in this group. You are proding for problems to solve. If you had personal experience and unsolved problems, you wouldn't need to do this step. But you have none, so here we are. Examples:
- What ingredients are X sensitive to?
- What ingredients should X avoid?
- What do people with X have to be careful of?
Literally google the questions and read a good amount of results. Each problem that you encounter, add it to a Problems List and then see if there is a solution that is specifically marketed for this problem on Amazon. If the group itself is super niche, this may actually be enough! However this is usually not enough as most issues in the big groups have been addressed in the marketplace. You can also type that same question with the word "forum" afterward to see what people on forums have been complaining about as well. This can sometimes be gold for finding budding problems that the market hasn't caught up with yet. These base problems could also be harder to test sometimes because you may need to come up with a completely new invention or product versus repurposing other products that provide a solution.
If you have found that all the very general problems have been taken care of, you should move onto the next step of the niche discovery process. Put yourself in the shoes of this group and think of ways your Problems List can be affected by everyday tasks or common products. Lets call this the Interaction List. This list obviously has unlimited iterations. Just make sure it is something that would have a large enough audience.
Use google to see if the things on your Interaction list are actually issues or not. Example language: Does (some product or action) cause (some issue) for (group of people) . This is a good time to also see recommended solutions to these interactions. This will help you gauge whether this is something you can solve without reinventing the wheel.
Search Amazon to see if there is a solution for this specifically.
Go through steps 1-6 over and over again until you find a problem that has not been solved and that follow a majority of MJ's CENTS model. Ideally it would be something that you can creatively test without too big of investment. This isn't a requirement, but with unlimited problems to solve, why not make it easy on yourself?

OK. So those are the basic steps I recommend you follow for this method. If you are confused about any of the steps see the next part.

The Idea Example:

Here is the process I went through for this thread. I went through many FAILED iterations before coming up with this final product. However for brevity's sake, I will post a few examples in a follow-up post and not here. The steps line up to the previous chapters steps.

People with blonde hair.
Here are the two questions that made sense within the context of the group
- "What do people with blonde hair have to be careful of?"
- "What ingredients should blondes avoid?"
Here is a short list of things that made my sample Problems List. If you google my questions from #2, you will see that this list is easily made just from the first page of results.
- Hydration
- Heat
- Sun
- Fading
- Staining
- Using things with dye's
- Chlorine
- Harsh Chemicals
- Using color-safe hair care products
All these issues are either things that the people in the group can just avoid, or there are solutions to the problem. So now I need to make an Interactions List. A good way to whittle down the list from unlimited is by excluding things that are directly related or unique to the specific problem. For example, it should be obvious that products designed specifically for blonde or colored hair are already solving the issue. There is no need in wasting time to see if you can make a shampoo that avoids those things (unless you have reason to believe otherwise). So I will think of things that may touch or expose blonde peoples hair to things on the Problems Listas a byproduct of normal daily activity and not specific to blonde people activity. A small list of immediate thoughts:
- Hats
- Scrunchies
- Sunscreen
- Lotions
- Shower water
- Going swimming
I start googling and cross referencing with Amazon. With many of these it becomes immediately apparent that these issues have been solved (and I would have known that if I had colored hair). However I land on jackpot with "Does sunscreen discolor blonde hair". The answer is YES. Normal sunscreen discolors colored hair. Yes there are ways to continue to use sunscreen without discoloring hair. For example, further google searches shows that common ingredients like Avebenzone and Octocrylene are what cause the discoloration and mineral sunscreens do not.
I search Amazon for "sunscreen for people with blonde hair", "sunscreen for people with colored hair", "sunscreen for blonde hair", and many other iterations. What I find is that there are sunscreen that you can specifically apply to colored hair to protect it, but there is no SKIN sunscreen that is advertised as being color safe. So when someone applies their generic face sunscreen, it can fade their bangs, eyebrows, mustache, etc...
Bingo. This is an issue that affects a large group of people, so its scaling potential is huge. Even better, it has no direct competitors. This may seem like a home run, but I wouldn't get ahead of myself. Just because this is a common and unique problem that can be solved, doesn't mean people will actually search for or care for you to solve it.

That's it folks. Thats the idea part of the process. Next is the ~~testing phase.~~ Research Phase and then finally comes the Testing Phase.

:bulb:

Follow up posts to this series:
---- The Preliminary Testing Phase
---- The Testing Phase

NeoDialectic · May 5, 2022

The Testing Framework:

You have finally arrived at the most crucial step. Remember, no matter how genius you think your idea is, you are not the market. Entrepreneurship is like gambling. If you are like me, you don't like gambling when the odds are not your favor. So you want to do your best to change your odds from the odds of the player, to the odds of the house. That means having a long term mindset and leaving enough for next time. You may lose this time, but if you learn and keep trying then the odds are in your favor of winning over the long term. That is why I don't recommend blowing all your resources on your first idea. Of course it is possible that you can bet it all on 00 on the roulette table and win. But it is not likely.

So with that in mind, you have to give the idea your spiritual all but not have it ruin you. You can't keep trying when you used all your mana on the first try. This can mean different things to different people. The larger the investment you make, the faster and more accurately you finish this part. Only you can decide what is right for you. @fastlane_dad and I have always bootstrapped as much as we can through the beginning stages. We replaced investment capital demands with creativity. Hopefully I can show you how to do that as well.

This part of the process will rely heavily on you answering the 1st question from the Preliminary Research Example correctly and concisely. You want to try and figure out how you can solve the issue or provide the value to the customer with as little monetary investment as you can. Here are some ways to do this:

Making something at home
Repurposing an existing product
Finding private label alternatives
Negotiating small samples
A combination of all these things

This is probably the one step that is the most diverse and difficult to make concise steps for. Most people would be surprised by the type of things you could test. However each type of issue/product may require it's own type of test. Once you have practiced this exercise enough, it will become easier and easier to see the way.

One of the biggest roadblocks people have in their thinking is believing that their product needs to be perfect. That is far from the truth. During your testing phase, the first thing you put out can be rudimentary in most areas as long as it is effective in the specific value you are proposing to solve. Once you get a good market signal from testing, then you can scale up investment on par with the signal and you can pour your heart and soul into the final product. You will find that along the way during the testing phase, you may actually have to adapt your mission statement and end up somewhere completely different!

Another roadblock is thinking that their solution isn't worth the money your customer will give you. If you naturally think this, it may be hard to shake this feeling. But you should be able to solve any guilt associated with this concern easily. This is how we do it...We legitimately want all our customers happy. So we provide a very liberal return policy. If the customer is not satisfied, they get an instant refund and a thank you for giving us a shot. It's no skin off their back. We want everyone to walk away happy. As long as you are solving the customers issue, most people will be happy. Those that aren't, get their money back.

Keep in mind that once you start getting sales, these methods should be phased out and turned into something high quality. The point of this exercise isn't how to make the fastest money by producing the crappiest product. The point is to figure out if you should spend your valuable time and resources on making the best product to solve the problem. Making the best product you can usually means something high quality, well thought through, and just overall something you can be proud of. A better product will get more more happy customers, reorders, more referrals, less refunds, and a leg up on competitors when they finally come.

The Testing Example:

During our research in the previous parts, it became clear that a solution already exists that just isn't marketed this way. Mineral sunscreens do not have the offending chemicals and are widespread. This gives us a wide array of choices.

Side note: Remember when I said a roadblock is thinking your solution isn't worth the money? This is a place where many people would feel that way. They think just because you are selling the customer an existing product, that you are somehow pulling one over on the customer. That is a very incorrect way of looking at things. Knowledge isn't free. My mother wouldn't sit there researching what ingredients won't discolor her hair. She has better things to do with her time. She would just go on Amazon and type color safe sunscreen, or something of the sort. Currently, no one is giving her an option that she could immediately be comfortable buying without doing more digging. You will. There's nothing misleading or bad about that. That is a huge value add. Every time we buy something based on a brand, we do this too. We use the brand as a heuristic to mean "this is a well enough known brand that even though it may not be the absolute best, I think it will be good enough to solve my issue and I am willing to spend a little more for the brand name to ensure that without doing my own research". Most of us do this and are more than willing to pay for this shortcut!

Different types of product have their own set of testing solutions. Here are a diverse set of examples for this type of product.

The quickest most unethical way
You can create a mock product with 3d renderings. You will either prevent the order from being placed (on your own website) or cancel orders that are placed. Not only may this not be ethical, but there are also other issues. If you are preventing an order being placed by doing something like giving an error during checkout, then you don't actually know if the customer would have went through with it. Carts are abandoned all the time. If you are cancelling orders, this could get you into hot water very fast in most the marketplaces and you may find your account at risk and you stuck at go before you even began. So we do not recommend this route if at all possible.

The quick hands on way
It looks like the fastest ways to have a product in hand to test for this example is by making sunscreen at home.

Side note: Think no one wants your homemade sunscreen? O ye, of little faith. Why don't you type in "sunscreen" into Etsy.com search and see how many sales are happening. Even when the customer knows that it is literally hand made in a random mom's kitchen, they are still more than happy to buy it.

The tradeoff with this is that you have to do more research into regulations and you have to be willing to get your hands literally messy. This is a completely acceptable solution. We have done the equivalent of this and there is nothing unethical about this as long as you do this legitimately and follow any regulations. Don't let regulations scare you away. You can google "regulations to produce sunscreen" and there will be a ton of info on it, including directly from the FDA. A quick shortcut for regulations on labelling is just to copy existing products labels and change the design elements while keeping the same structure and wording.

The best part about this way is that with enough motivation you could literally have a product in your hands by the end of the day. More realistically you could have something within a week or so. Do the research on how to make one online, buy the ingredients, the bottles, get a local place to print labels and you are on your way! Use google at every step of the way.

"How do I make a mineral sunscreen"
"Where do I buy X ingredient"
"Where do I buy a X color pump bottle"
"Where do I buy a X color pump"
"Where can I print a label"

You can either do the designs yourself or hire someone on some place like fiverr.com to do it.

Remember....you aren't optimizing for cutting cost or absolute highest quality here. You just want something "good enough to get the job done" and while still reasonably priced in low quantities.

We wouldn't currently do this as we have money to invest, but this is a decent choice.

The quick hands off way
This is the way we would likely do things right now. I would google for "private label mineral sunscreen" and start calling places. Here are two places that I chose for this example. Keep in mind that I chose them strictly as an example because of how easy it was to find the price. I have never used them and have no idea how good the product is:

Code:

https://www.wildwestskincare.com/collections/sunscreen-with-zinc-titanium-dioxide
https://proceuticalspl.com/

The first one doesn't look as visually appealing but I can get singles for $37 or 10 at $20 a piece. The second one looks more professional in my opinion and the minimum order number is $24 at a cost of $25.50 a unit. Many private label companies will give you label templates and even make sure you are following regulation on the label. This may ease some peoples anxiety with doing it yourself.

So for $37 + shipping you can have a real product in your hand and be in the market very quickly! Or you may choose to invest a couple hundred to get a more professional looking starting batch. Again, this depends on your circumstances and goals. Don't forget that you can usually negotiate with these companies. There are dozens that provide these services and with a well thought through phone call you may be able to get a very good product, at a very low quantity and at a good price.

The traditional route
I won't spend to much time on this since this is the most intuitive route. But I would be remiss if I didn't mention the traditional route. You find a contract manufacturer that makes your types of product. You start a relationship with them and discuss your requirements for the product. They will be glad to provide you stock formulas for the type of product you want to make and then you have to do more research on how you would want to customize it. For example, you would ask them to provide you with a sample of a stock mineral sunscreen. If you like their sample, you would ask them to add X, Y, Z ingredient to it to provide even more value to your customer. Or maybe there is an expensive ingredient that most don't use but you can because you will price your product accordingly. The guy you talk to can be a wealth of knowledge as this is what they do all day and they too want you to succeed. So don't be afraid to ask. Doing this could demand a $3,000 - $10,000 investment. Depending on alot of factors.

At this point in our career, there is a good chance that we would do things this way. A few thousand dollar investment isn't much for us and we could go straight to providing as much value as possible with a custom end product. If the test succeeds, we would still try to improve the product from this step based on feedback or more research we have done. But If we fail, we would have alot more personal investment where that came from so we could easily shrug it off. That's why I said your level of investment and commitment is a very personal thing.

Conclusions:

So these are the ways you can get up and running very quickly to test the market for your product. If you have touched on a strong market need, you will know immediately. But don't be discouraged if results are first lackluster. You should try different marketing and different angles of attack. Many successful products will start off with only selling very slowly. This is still a huge win! Many people will be turned away because of the inherent flaws in your test mule. But you only gambled small financial investment and now you are more confident in investing the required time and financial resources to make that AWESOME product that will drive a productocracy. This is where you become an expert in all things sunscreen and colored/blonde hair. You can spend days/weeks/etc properly researching people's experiences online/offline and even scientific papers written on these topics and ingredients. Then you go through the iterative steps of creating a good presentable products. But again, you are doing all this knowing that when you have the final product in hand you, people are going to be snatching it out of your hands! Too many aspiring entrepreneurs spend all day at the creation phase and either come up with a spectacular product that no one wants or give up because they lose motivation through the slow creation phase. There's nothing like sales coming in on your test mules to continue motivation you during this phase.

A strong immediate response is usually the best thing you could hope for, but don't write off slow responses or product you have to tweak. They can still become big hits or even if they don't, a milquetoast response product can still make you more than the US median salary. That's the power of being the producer.

We have ordered our "final" product as soon as within 1 week of starting the test phase or as late as months after. It all depended on the market response, whether we had to keep tweaking/testing and how much time we had to dedicate to this product at the time.

Epilogue:

Alright guys. Hopefully all this has helped you guys peek behind the curtain a little bit and got you going in the right direction. As I have been writing this series, I see there is probably a lot more that needs to be addressed. For example I do have alot of failed examples during the Idea phase that would show good lessons. There are also countless examples I could make of how to test different types of products. When you see enough of them, you can start picking up on the similarities and it becomes easier formulating your own successful tests. I think there are probably steps that I glossed over that deserve their own focus as well, like the marketing/ad copy/listings/etc. Let me know which areas still leave you scratching your head. So I may continue the series in the future. But for now, I'm exhausted of writing! :rofl:

NeoDialectic · Apr 21, 2022

theguy22 said:
What a cliff hanger to leave at hahah!

But yes this is what I have often found too. I'd discover a large enough problem that needs to be solved, only to find out that the reason it's not solved already is because it's near impossible to. This is what I realised when I had an idea for a car product few months ago.

Another example of this is an anti-perspirant (not deodorant) that doesn't leave yellow marks on white shirts. The difference between an anti-perspirant and a deodorant is that the former has aluminium whereas the latter doesn't. It's the aluminium that mixes with sweat that causes the yellow marks on white shirts. The problem is though, aluminium is what blocks out sweat, it's the reason why we wear anti-perspirants. Yes you could just wear a deodorant but a deodorant does not do anything in regards to sweat, it's just a super-weak cologne that makes you smell good.

There are many anti-perspirants, including ones from big brands like Axe/Lynx, Nivea, etc, that are advertised as 'anti-yellow marks' but none of them actually work.

Every beginning entrepreneur seems to have different stumbling blocks. You point out a big one. They successfully regear their brains to start looking for problems. But once they try to figure out how to solve them, they quickly find that in alot of fields, there is a reason the issues are not solved. It's not like big companies wouldn't want to solve the issue! I'm not saying that you couldn't figure it out where big companies didn't. Just that different types of ventures and solutions, take different levels of commitment. I don't want to discourage you from trying to solve the issue in an innovative way through deep thought, research and experimentation.

However, what I do want to suggest is that if you are just starting off and you keep running into these issues, try a different point of view and see if it helps you.

You don't have Nivea's r&d budget or employees with technical expertise. What you do have is

Time
Lower Success Threshold - They are so busy it may not be worth it for Nivea to release a product that will make them 100k a year, but it is for you
Higher risk tolerance - A big company has alot of bureaucracy and it takes alot of resources to start something new. Product line failure is a big deal. Atleast to the teams responsible for it (could be their job!). On the other hand, you are going into this knowing it may very well fail and it's ok because you will try other things right after. The most important thing is to be persist. The only common personality trait @fastlane_dad and I could ever find for entrepreneurs is persistence. They kept trying until skill, willpower, or even just dumb luck finally pulled through.
The ability to creatively solve issues. Nivea can't put out a creative solution that solves peoples issues but is half baked. They've got a reputation on the line! You can. Nivea's highly educated scientists may be above asking average uneducated joe's how they currently solve the issue. You aren't. Nivea is a skin care brand so they will focus on skincare solutions. You are a ball of clay. If searching for the solutions leads you to creating shirts, then you become a shirt brand!

Creativity is probably one of the big skills that alot of beginner entrepreneurs need to build up. I know telling you to creatively solve the issue just sounds like a useless platitude, so I will try to give you an example. My next step after finding that accepted research shows that officially only the current solution works is consult with THE PEOPLE! Contrary to popular belief, most accepted knowledge came about in a bottom up approach. People were doing x to solve an inconvenience for years and then someone noticed and proliferated the solution. I would search "antiperspirant leaves yellow stains forum". Forums can be a wealth of knowledge (duh). One of the first results is a reddit thread "LPT: If you're sick of seeing yellow underarm stains on your white t-shirts, switch to a deodorant that does not contain aluminium.". Read through the comments. Most will be a waste of time, but some will give you ideas. Here are some of my takeaways:

Many people are claiming commercial aluminum-free anti-persperents do not work. But many seem to swear by them! To me, that is signaling that I shouldn't look for something that will solve EVERYONES problem as it may be a very personal problem. People may be excessively sweating for different reasons and that is why some solutions work while others don't.
A few people mention comments like making their own using: coconut oil, baking soda, and corn starch. Worth a try? I can just test it on myself afterall!
One mentions that there is a product that works great for them but is only sold in Canada. He has to buy and IMPORT it just to get it. Maybe I need to check out the ingredients and see what they got going on. Maybe it's nothing, maybe they got a unique ingredient in there.
All this reading makes me think... What if instead of replacing effective perspirants, I can just prevent existing ones from causing the staining problem. Maybe a pad between? It may not be worth it for their white t-shirts but what wouldn't you do to save your $100 favorite dress shirt. Checking Amazon. DOH. Looks like I wasn't the first idiot to think of it. Hmm maybe I need to get me some of these for personal use!
Botox injections stop sweating? Wow I didn't know that. I'm not a doctor so I can't utilize this exactly, but I will put this new knowledge in my pocket and maybe when my marketing business takes off I can reach out to botox places to help them advertise this solution. They obviously aren't doing a good job!
A few comments randomly mention neck sweat and that staining their shirts. Hmmm, how common is that? Googling "neck sweat staining shirt" brings up multiples articles on it. So it's common. Are their marketplace solutions? I go on Amazon and type "prevent neck sweat staining". Nothing. Is THIS the opportunity I need to start thinking about now? It's great that I could probably use what the market has already figured out for sweating in armpits and maybe repurpose it for this. Maybe even the pad solution that I found earlier can be repurposed to save shirts neckline areas. Hmmmm.
Hmm, maybe I need to think of the type of forum that would discuss things like this and post a thread on there asking how they deal with it. Sports forums? Exercise forums? Beauty forums? Health forums that focus on natural solutions?

This is from one measly thread and I've already created a boatload of work for myself. This is just one example of thinking outside the box to get you moving forward.

NeoDialectic · Apr 28, 2022

OK guys, I thought the testing framework was going to be the next step, but as I sat down to write it I realized there is another in between step. Never fear, I should have the juicy testing framework that many have been waiting for written and posted by sometime next week.

The Preliminary Research Framework:

So now that you have a unique issue that needs solving, it is time to move on to the next step. Here are the first questions I ask myself when starting this part. Some of the steps blend together and feed into each other.

What is the actual issue that I am solving or value that I am providing?
- We like to call this The Rub . It's your angle. It's why people are buying your product or service. This is a crucial thing to nail down as it will be your guiding light. You need to know what is setting you apart from the other guys. It could be the product itself, where you are marketing the product, how you are marketing it, or some combination of them all.
Is this issue solvable?
- This should be self explanatory. You now have to do the preliminary research to see if it is possible to solve this issue. There are SO MANY resources out there these days that make this possible. My favorite ways of doing this is starting by googling the issue and reading as much as I can about it. Articles are a good start. Forums are great resources as well. See how everyday people are solving this issue. The hive mind sometimes knows things before the experts. Speaking of experts, see what experts are saying about it by going to scholar.google.com. Read the papers on the topic. If you have access to a college/university login, alot of times you get free access to databases of research that may otherwise be paid to view. The point here is not necessarily to become an expert. It is to figure out if there are any realistic solutions to the issue and maybe even what other value to your customers you can provide with your product.
How much expertise, resources, and dedication would it take to solve it?
- After doing the preliminary research in the last step, you should have a general feel for what the problem is and the roadblocks in solving it. Think about what it would take to solve the issue.
Can I physically do what is necessary and do I want to do it?
- These questions kind of blend together, but they are both very important. Is this realistically possible for you to do? Do you want to make the sacrifices that it takes to do it? As someone that is already successful, I am much more particular with the sacrifices I am willing to make. As an aspiring entrepreneur, you should be willing to do ALOT more to succeed.

The answers to these questions should help you decide whether you should move on to the next step. There are always trade offs involved. The harder the issue is to solve, the easier time you will have protecting your market share. The easier it is to solve, the faster you will have competitors at your doorstep. There are unlimited things to solve, so if you are a beginning entrepreneur, I suggest going with less challenging solves that you can come up with good ways of testing.

The Preliminary Research Example

What is the actual issue that I am solving or value that I am providing?
- This is an easy one for my example. My product will address the special needs of people with colored and blonde hair. The issue that I am solving is that sunscreen discolors blonde and colored hair.
Is this issue solvable?
- I immediately went to google and asked my question "prevent sunscreen from discoloring blonde hair". I am immediately presented with the cause of the discoloring (which I also found during my Idea phase) and the solution. Here are some of the first articles I found:
How much expertise, resources, and dedication would it take to solve it?
- Sunscreens that do not have Avebenzone, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, and Octocrylene are the solution. These already exist out there so it would take minimal work to get this idea off the ground. I don't even have to move onto the next steps or other research techniques because of how simple the answer was.
Can I physically do what is necessary and do I want to do it?
- Another easy one! Googling "how to produce a sunscreen" produces a ton of examples how to make sunscreen. Everything from homemade solutions to contract manufacturers that will make one for you.

So far, this is the ideal result for a beginning entrepreneur. There is an issue, there are people talking about the issue, there seems to be easy solutions to the issue, and there are no products directly marketed as a solution to the issue. Your own example may not line up as perfectly and that may be ok! You may still be able to figure it out and produce a very strong product that sells like hotcakes.

Testing is next!

fastlane_dad · Apr 20, 2022

Antifragile said:
For all the new entrepreneurs who are willing to put in the work, I have a few inconveniences that I'd pay for if you solved them. I like swimming. Hit the pool with a team and a coach a few times a week. My goggles and swim trunks get worn out quickly. Finding swimming equipment is getting harder. It's not as popular of a sport as say, running. It's a bit niche as brick and mortar stores at "the local mall" are more about chilling by the pool and not sports swimming.

1. Goggles with chlorine get foggy after some use.
2. Swim trunks shouldn't be washed in your washer with typical laundry, worse yet with a towel. Yet after pool they smell like chlorine.

So what do I end up doing?

Lucky I can afford to just keep buying new. I wash the trunks with a towel after each visit to the pool. Every 2-3 months I buy a new set of goggles and trunks.

There has to be a cheaper and better way and some opportunity for someone to capitalize on it.

Apply the model of @NeoDialectic above and good luck!

As an ex-avid swimmer I definitely encountered both the issues you mention of. I used to go swimming 4-5x a week but slowed down on that since as the chlorine was taking a heavier toll on my skin and really drying me out. It did not help the fact that I / pool was out in AZ sun as well. I do plan on returning to the pool in some fashion in the near future though.

SC87Dominik said:
What an absolute ocean of gold yourself and @fastlane_dad have been putting out recently.

Not only did you start to preach at the perfect time for me, but this and some of the other threads you two are a part of have been some of the best I've read.

Even if it is regurgitated information, just by using different wording to the same idea of fastlane entrepreneurship is a huge difference maker for those of us trying to piece together the puzzle. I really appreciate the specific details as it helps look at things on a different angle.

This post is exactly what I've been trying to understand, and I'm sure the next one about testing will be even better.
When people say "focus on the customer", they actually mean, "research the damn people and focus on the commandment of need which is solving people's specific needs/problems that they might not even be aware of".

Recently I've made the realization that ENTREPRENEURS ARE ACTORS.

WHAT WOULD AN ACTOR DO TO PREPARE FOR A ROLE OF THEIRS? THEY FULLY IMMERSE THEMSELVES INTO THE STORY OF THE CHARACTER AND THEIR NUANCES. THE BEST ACTORS ACT AS THE CHARACTER EVEN BEYOND THE FILMING HOURS. BECOME THE BEST ACTOR AS POSSIBLE, BY UNDERSTANDING THE INHERENT PROBLEM BEING FACED BY THE TARGET CUSTOMER.

This is the Commandment of Need.

Thanks for your feedback and encouragement.

We (@NeoDialectic) and I are really at a sweet spot where both of our schedules freed up past selling all of our businesses, and would love to see how we can help the community.

We have hashed out many countless hundreds (more like thousands haha) of hours of conversations / brainstorming / theory / philosophy and the such - ALL applicable to business, over our close to twenty years of working together side by side in the same office. We countlessly analyze and ask what are the 80/20 actions in our business that have produced the success us and others would be looking for. We would also continuously analyze why some competitors would flounder, where we kept on persevering.

We beat many / all topics nearly to death, read nearly the same books and have both been passionate about entrepreneurship since a young age.

All the input is greatly appreciated and we hope to provide more value all around and see how we can address some of the common issues (especially early startup entrepreneurs are facing). If we can put it down into words and make and help make an actionable plan for someone, or set in place the mindset with which to move forward with - that'd be great as well.

Most the posts we write, the other one proofreads. There is still much much more we'd love to give and hope this is only the start.

The toughest part of this entire fastlane gig (and it still is our toughest part as well) - is making a plan and eventually acting on it!

SC87Dominik · Apr 20, 2022

What an absolute ocean of gold yourself and @fastlane_dad have been putting out recently.

Not only did you start to preach at the perfect time for me, but this and some of the other threads you two are a part of have been some of the best I've read.

Even if it is regurgitated information, just by using different wording to the same idea of fastlane entrepreneurship is a huge difference maker for those of us trying to piece together the puzzle. I really appreciate the specific details as it helps look at things on a different angle.

This post is exactly what I've been trying to understand, and I'm sure the next one about testing will be even better.
When people say "focus on the customer", they actually mean, "research the damn people and focus on the commandment of need which is solving people's specific needs/problems that they might not even be aware of".

Recently I've made the realization that ENTREPRENEURS ARE ACTORS.

WHAT WOULD AN ACTOR DO TO PREPARE FOR A ROLE OF THEIRS? THEY FULLY IMMERSE THEMSELVES INTO THE STORY OF THE CHARACTER AND THEIR NUANCES. THE BEST ACTORS ACT AS THE CHARACTER EVEN BEYOND THE FILMING HOURS. BECOME THE BEST ACTOR AS POSSIBLE, BY UNDERSTANDING THE INHERENT PROBLEM BEING FACED BY THE TARGET CUSTOMER.

This is the Commandment of Need.

Antifragile · Apr 20, 2022

fastlane_dad said:
As an ex-avid swimmer I definitely encountered both the issues you mention of.

Awesome. The reason I mention this as an example is that it’s something you can pre-sell without Amazon and in great quantities to all pools. Each pool, including ours, has a little “store”, it’s more like a glass closet - tiny, but it’s there. And the value skew is convenient access. Convince our coach and he’ll probably let you show your product to the team. There 23 loyal customers who’re like me all on “subscription model” :rofl:

of replacing goggles and trunks. Deliver to me every 3 months - and you’ve got the easiest repeat sale! Solve the problem so I pay a touch less (2nd value skew) and boom, referral revenue.

Opportunity is always there. Can you see it? That’s a different question. It’s a lot of fun to think about these things. Entrepreneurship is addictive! Haha.

NeoDialectic · Apr 25, 2022

RamboCambo said:
Love the thread! Do you have any tips on the execution part? Say with your hair product idea, do you bring in experts to help you make the business, source supply, learn the steps yourself before proceeding? When do you know to stop learning/know enough to actually make that product or sell that service?

Some of your questions will likely depend on the product itself. For our example, you would not need to hire any experts. You become the expert. The manufacturing lab you hire to manufacture the product for you can fill in some blanks. The most important knowledge for you to become an expert in isn't rebuilding the wheel (Or how to make a sunscreen), but rather in the exact area where you are adding value. So if your value add is a sunscreen that is guaranteed to not discolor hair, you have to become an expert in what ingredients discolor hair and avoid those. You can then ask your manufacturing lab to make a sunscreen using generic formula but fit your criteria.

On the other hand, not every industry has a "generic formula". Depending on your level of investment and business requirements, it would be a good idea to hire an expert.

As for the last question.... You should be in the process of making the product or selling the service AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. As soon as you can successfully provide your value add, that is when you are ready. You will improve on the way.

NeoDialectic · May 13, 2022

TheMethodX said:
the example of a digital product can concern ebooks, online courses and also services such as copywriting in a very specific field

When it comes to these types of products, there is less testing that needs to be done. These types of products don't demand alot of financial investment. Remember, the point of the test is so you don't have to invest 10s of thousands of dollars on a flop that no one wants. The point isn't so you don't have to put in any work at all on your end. So sticking by the principle, I would just to put together something that gives the value without dwelling too much on perfecting it. Many people get hung up on things not being perfect and delaying release too long. Get it 80% to perfect and release it. Then perfect it with subsequent iterations and updates.

If it's some kind of product or field where you don't even know if people are interested at all, you can surely still devise a quick test. We have done it before and it has stopped us from further investment of time.

Setup the advertisements or marketing campaign you were planning on doing for it (facebook ads/google ads/instagram/SEO/etc...). Make a landing page/website that portrays your digital product but the buy button ultimately just asks for an email so they get notified when it is available. Then run it for a short while. If people aren't hitting your landing page at all, you know it's either a miss or your form of advertisement isn't right for the type of product. Finding this out before writing an ebook/course can save you ALOT of time! If people are hitting your landing page, then it passes the test. If people are giving you their email, that's an even better signal. This doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a success, since there is a difference between all those actions and actually taking out your wallet. But it should give you more confidence in whether your product has no shot or a good shot.

Let me know if you have other questions

Antifragile · Apr 20, 2022

For all the new entrepreneurs who are willing to put in the work, I have a few inconveniences that I'd pay for if you solved them. I like swimming. Hit the pool with a team and a coach a few times a week. My goggles and swim trunks get worn out quickly. Finding swimming equipment is getting harder. It's not as popular of a sport as say, running. It's a bit niche as brick and mortar stores at "the local mall" are more about chilling by the pool and not sports swimming.

1. Goggles with chlorine get foggy after some use.
2. Swim trunks shouldn't be washed in your washer with typical laundry, worse yet with a towel. Yet after pool they smell like chlorine.

So what do I end up doing?

Lucky I can afford to just keep buying new. I wash the trunks with a towel after each visit to the pool. Every 2-3 months I buy a new set of goggles and trunks.

There has to be a cheaper and better way and some opportunity for someone to capitalize on it.

Apply the model of @NeoDialectic above and good luck!

MJ DeMarco · Apr 21, 2022

Upgraded to GOLD, thanks for sharing your wisdom. Look forward to the other parts!

NeoDialectic · Apr 21, 2022

MJ DeMarco said:
Upgraded to GOLD, thanks for sharing your wisdom. Look forward to the other parts!

Thank you!

SC87Dominik said:
What an absolute ocean of gold yourself and @fastlane_dad have been putting out recently.

Not only did you start to preach at the perfect time for me, but this and some of the other threads you two are a part of have been some of the best I've read.

Even if it is regurgitated information, just by using different wording to the same idea of fastlane entrepreneurship is a huge difference maker for those of us trying to piece together the puzzle. I really appreciate the specific details as it helps look at things on a different angle.

Thank you for the kind words! It took my a while to appreciate just how true "Even if it is regurgitated information, just by using different wording to the same idea of fastlane entrepreneurship is a huge difference maker for those of us trying to piece together the puzzle." is. I personally love reading multiple angles on the same topic as well, but I just didn't actively think about it that way.

DougRMR said:
This is great stuff. Loving the value and will definitely stay tuned for your other posts.

Though, can you clarify what the Interactions List is, exactly? I can't seem to grasp it. Is it referring to what could cause/solve the audience's problem in every day life?

The Problems List in my example are a list of things that DIRECTLY CAUSE issues for the group of people.
The Interactions List is a list of actions or things that people use that make expose themselves to those causes.

So for example....Avebenzone and Octocrylene discolors bleach blonde peoples hairs. But no one buys Avebenzone and Octocrylene (A&O). They buy sunscreen and many sunscreens have those issues. So the A&O is the problem while sunscreen (or applying sunscreen) is the interaction that causes people to expose themselves to A&O.

fastlane_dad · Dec 7, 2022

Wanted to leave this here as well for whoever comes across this thread.

@NeoDialectic and I have (in the last year) started a whole new line of products as one of our small projects, using the EXACT METHODS outlined in this thread here.

The results so far have SURPRISED US. We had our best sales day few days ago $400+ in sales. When this keeps up and grows, that's already $150K in sales in ONE YEAR. And this business just began with very limited effort and limited products (3). We always preached to focus on making $5 before $10 -- and in all ways this is again one of the best examples of such.

Few things to note, while going through the methods outlined here, I'd like to point out there was -

-No reinventing the wheel (several value skews in a large competitive field)
-No huge marketing budgets
-No custom products made yet (working the details of that now, and will add more value adds).
-No TENS of thousands of dollars invested in products (common misconception). All in cost to
order 3 products was ~ $1K.
-No warehouse or office space rented
-No team of employees (outsourced all of the design to FIVER!)
-Not a single piece of software purchased (outside of basics like Photoshop and Microsoft Word)

We still overthought. We still took too long to get products up and running. We are still learning lessons daily.

BUT most important lessons?

1. EVERYTHING sells if you give it time and attention.
2. GRIT AND PERSEVERANCE above all (post on this later).

We are most likely not gonna give this business the attention it needs to turn into another 8 figure exit, but nevertheless it's a start, and like all starts -- the END IS STILL YET TO BE WRITTEN.

Two Dog · Apr 19, 2022

NeoDialectic said:
After posting my general advice post here , I realized that one of the most burning questions that people struggle with is "how do I come up with an idea that isn't already done?" and "how do I test whether I can successfully sell this product without a huge investment?".

This is the first time I am writing down this process on paper, but this process in general is one of the ways my business partner and I have successfully launched multiple big products that have been in the hands of hundreds of thousands of happy customers.

Hopefully this thread will show you how to do that with a real step by step example of how to do this. I will also try to include my reasoning for decisions along the way. So this will be a long thread with multiple parts. Even though I have already went through the example all the way through posting; Writing detailed accounts take a long time. So today I am tackling the idea generation part. Depending on the response over the next week or so, I will add a post detailing how to bootstrap your way through successfully testing the product. I can also add a post detailing a few unsuccessful iterations, to showcase what failed attempts look like.

Disclaimers:

This is FAR from the only way to do this. By providing the following steps, I am not saying that this is the best way to start a business. But these are difficult questions to answer in an actionable and generalizable fashion, so I have chosen a niche and path that I could do just that. I believe others methods have been posted before on these forums. For example like searching for everyday items on Amazon and seeing what all the 1 star reviews have in common and solve that issue.

The best way to think of an idea is to be familiar with a product or field and try to solve an issue that you or someone you know runs into. In this exercise I am attempting to answer not just how to test a product, but also how to come up with an idea when your mind is running completely blank. The point is to show that the only thing holding you back is your willingness to put in work/time and not your experience/age/finances/etc. If you have an advantage in either of those (know a problem to solve or you have sufficient finances to fund faster experimentation) then I would recommend using that.

You are taking a peek at my exact process that I would take to think of and test a product under these circumstances. That means I have not actually made and tested this product but I actually do believe this would be a good product to test. My bar here would be to test X amount of products and only 1 has to catch on to be a success.

My example will be testing on Amazon as it is the most lucrative marketplace and simultaneously probably the hardest to do so as your are playing by their stringent rules. However you can apply the same methods for any other marketplace and/or search engine and you would just be dealing with less traffic but likely have more control.

If you want to copy any part of this, you can. But please know that I only went surface level for the purpose of this exercise. I don't endorse any of the companies mentioned (I haven't necessarily worked with them) and I haven't done all the legal research and due diligence.

Prelude:

What do I need?

An Amazon seller account

Willingness to spend $50-$200 on product and another couple hundred on advertising. There may be cheaper ways to do this with close to zero investment and I will annotate those options, but they all come with drawbacks

The Idea Framework:

When starting to brainstorm ideas from scratch, I am thinking about the question "what scenario or group of people can I provide value to in a specific way that others haven't?" Thinking about the question this way helps me find a niche. Here is an outline of the steps that you can follow.

Think of attributes that separate people into groups with possible unique needs or requirements. Example: Height, age, sex,race,hair color, eye color, skin color, disability or special needs, left/right handedness, location, etc...

Think of questions that could expose unique needs that these people would have just as a byproduct of being in this group. You are proding for problems to solve. If you had personal experience and unsolved problems, you wouldn't need to do this step. But you have none, so here we are. Examples:

What ingredients are X sensitive to?

What ingredients should X avoid?

What do people with X have to be careful of?

Literally google the questions and read a good amount of results. Each problem that you encounter, add it to a Problems List and then see if there is a solution that is specifically marketed for this problem on Amazon. If the group itself is super niche, this may actually be enough! However this is usually not enough as most issues in the big groups have been addressed in the marketplace. You can also type that same question with the word "forum" afterward to see what people on forums have been complaining about as well. This can sometimes be gold for finding budding problems that the market hasn't caught up with yet. These base problems could also be harder to test sometimes because you may need to come up with a completely new invention or product versus repurposing other products that provide a solution.

If you have found that all the very general problems have been taken care of, you should move onto the next step of the niche discovery process. Put yourself in the shoes of this group and think of ways your Problems List can be affected by everyday tasks or common products. Lets call this the Interaction List. This list obviously has unlimited iterations. Just make sure it is something that would have a large enough audience.

Use google to see if the things on your Interaction list are actually issues or not. Example language: Does (some product or action) cause (some issue) for (group of people) . This is a good time to also see recommended solutions to these interactions. This will help you gauge whether this is something you can solve without reinventing the wheel.

Search Amazon to see if there is a solution for this specifically.

Go through steps 1-6 over and over again until you find a problem that has not been solved and that follow a majority of MJ's CENTS model. Ideally it would be something that you can creatively test without too big of investment. This isn't a requirement, but with unlimited problems to solve, why not make it easy on yourself?

OK. So those are the basic steps I recommend you follow for this method. If you are confused about any of the steps see the next part.

The Idea Example:

Here is the process I went through for this thread. I went through many FAILED iterations before coming up with this final product. However for brevity's sake, I will post a few examples in a follow-up post and not here. The steps line up to the previous chapters steps.

People with blonde hair.

Here are the two questions that made sense within the context of the group

"What do people with blonde hair have to be careful of?"

"What ingredients should blondes avoid?"

Here is a short list of things that made my sample Problems List. If you google my questions from #2, you will see that this list is easily made just from the first page of results.

Hydration

Heat

Sun

Fading

Staining

Using things with dye's

Chlorine

Harsh Chemicals

Using color-safe hair care products

All these issues are either things that the people in the group can just avoid, or there are solutions to the problem. So now I need to make an Interactions List. A good way to whittle down the list from unlimited is by excluding things that are directly related or unique to the specific problem. For example, it should be obvious that products designed specifically for blonde or colored hair are already solving the issue. There is no need in wasting time to see if you can make a shampoo that avoids those things (unless you have reason to believe otherwise). So I will think of things that may touch or expose blonde peoples hair to things on the Problems Listas a byproduct of normal daily activity and not specific to blonde people activity. A small list of immediate thoughts:

Hats

Scrunchies

Sunscreen

Lotions

Shower water

Going swimming

I start googling and cross referencing with Amazon. With many of these it becomes immediately apparent that these issues have been solved (and I would have known that if I had colored hair). However I land on jackpot with "Does sunscreen discolor blonde hair". The answer is YES. Normal sunscreen discolors colored hair. Yes there are ways to continue to use sunscreen without discoloring hair. For example, further google searches shows that common ingredients like Avebenzone and Octocrylene are what cause the discoloration and mineral sunscreens do not.

I search Amazon for "sunscreen for people with blonde hair", "sunscreen for people with colored hair", "sunscreen for blonde hair", and many other iterations. What I find is that there are sunscreen that you can specifically apply to colored hair to protect it, but there is no SKIN sunscreen that is advertised as being color safe. So when someone applies their generic face sunscreen, it can fade their bangs, eyebrows, mustache, etc...

Bingo. This is an issue that affects a large group of people, so its scaling potential is huge. Even better, it has no direct competitors. This may seem like a home run, but I wouldn't get ahead of myself. Just because this is a common and unique problem that can be solved, doesn't mean people will actually search for or care for you to solve it.

That's it folks. Thats the idea part of the process. Next is the testing phase.

This is really fascinating to me. It's like watching a movie play out. Great stuff and hugely educational.

It's a reliable product identification strategy without leaving your laptop. I wouldn't have thought that possible.

NeoDialectic · Mar 30, 2023

BizyDad said:
Hi. Long time listener, first time caller.

Not my area of expertise, I have a super basic question. Two actually.

If I plan on launching multiple separate unrelated brands on Amazon, am I setting up a seller account for each one, or is there something in the interface where I'm setting up separate stores? I heard you can't have more than one seller account so I'm curious. File separate LLCs and each one gets its own seller account?

Separate accounts are technically allowed if they are legitimately separate businesses. First, you have to get manual approval from Amazon, but even afterward, your accounts are always in jeopardy of being automatically flagged by their system. If you had preapproval, it will all work out....but while they figure out your innocence at a snail's pace, you're losing days of revenue.

The point is for simplicities sake; you should start with one account.

Then when it's time for you to expand, there are ways to have separate accounts and stay off the grid. I'm not sure of any official places explaining how but If you are ever in the situation that you need to be, you can DM me, and I can give you advice on how to stay off their radar. For example, we had a separate account for each of our brands.

BizyDad said:
Secondly, as far as the testing phase goes. I understood what you were saying there. But if the initial product launches don't take off, or if I start getting some bad reviews, is there a way to recover? Or does that just kind of stick with you the entire time you're trying to build your business?

It depends on how bad things go. If it just fails to get any sales, I would move on. If you get a lot of bad reviews because your "test" product wasn't up to par, I would start a new listing. Rename the title of the old listing, remove or replace the images and close it down. Get a new UPC for $30, change the UPC on the final products' packaging, and start a new listing. Done.

BizyDad said:
I thought you guys were retired!

What can I say? Old habits die hard haha

We didn't plan on starting new product lines, but thoughts like, "but we know this industry so well, and it's so easy for us, so why don't we just dip our toe in" start creeping in. So we turned on the engines and quickly whipped something up.

Then I made this thread. I wasn't expecting this much of an overwhelmingly positive response to something that we thought was "obvious". We still don't think it's revolutionary but have since realized it's just a lot of the other advice out there is either generic, outdated or garbage. Based on the bad or outdated advice out there, it seems like "gurus" selling courses didn't make their money doing the methods, but by selling the courses....

So now @fastlane_dad and I have been considering building out a course based on this thread. It would go into more detail, with live examples, and take the person from the complete start (creating an LLC) to end (product selling online). The goal is to give the person no excuses not to start today and try.

We spend a few hours a month on the product line, which isn't the time it deserves or requires to actually thrive. But it's tough stealing time away from other things in life for something you don't "need" ! On the other hand, we believe to continue providing good advice, we have to be in the field ourselves. Especially if we are going to charge for the advice. Things change fast in eCommerce, so we've stuck to it. Restarting the processes has given us insights into hurdles newbies have to deal with nowadays that we wouldn't have known, considering we were at a different stage of our business for years now. We are adding 5 more products in April. :bored:

--BTW, I wouldn't recommend this lax pace to those that want to build a successful e-commerce business. They should be doing a full-court press and giving as much time as possible at the start. Effort, time, creativity, and perseverance are what will separate you from the big guys already in the field who have much more experience than you.--

NeoDialectic · May 31, 2022

xShepherdx said:
First off, thank you so much for sharing! This thread is a goldmine and even has my girlfriend excited by the possibilities. We've spent all morning brainstorming ideas using the process you've laid out and have come up with some great ideas to chase down further.

With that said, the paranoid part of me wonders how you manage/avoid potential liabilities.

For example, when looking at heating pads, there are people reporting that they were burned by the product. This was seen in popular products and niche pads (even 5-star reviews, variable heat settings, etc.), so I'm thinking that it's fairly unavoidable and comes with the territory.

With a product like this, would you carry some sort of insurance? Or is a disclaimer good enough? Or is this even a problem and am I just overthinking?

Up to this point, I only have experience with digital products, so any advice in this area would be greatly appreciated!

It makes me happy hearing that I was able to motivate you and your GF into the right direction!

Great question too.

The answer depends on the individual and their risk tolerance. A few points.

All things should be done through a LLC or Corporation that you created. This creates a liability shield. So if something happens, only your company (which has near zero) can be sued. You can't squeeze juice out of a rock.
Google "piercing the corporate veil". It will pull up things that an owner does that allows the person suing their business, to say that the owner didn't actually treat this as a business but as an extension of their personal things and because of that he shouldn't be afforded the protection the business provides. These are simple and obvious things that can be avoided but that many people don't. For example, don't treat your business bank account as a personal bank account where you can buy personal goodies with. Treat it like a separate entity and so will the law. Easy
Don't do anything illegal like fraud and avoid gross negligence as that also shifts responsibility from the business to the officers making those decisions. Using your example.... Someone burning themselves on a hot item that is meant to be hot, would likely be a business liability. On the other hand, you knowingly choosing a part that is 2 pennies cheaper but knowingly has a 50% chance of exploding... Is negligence. So set your disclaimers as all other companies selling heat pads do and don't do anything crazy.

That's the gist of the matter. But as I mentioned, there could be some nuance. Are you a wealthy individual, or even relatively well off because of your career? In that case, you could consider general business liability insurance. Maybe you could even consider product liability insurance. But since you are well off, those are no big deal and are very low costs for peace of mind from the very unlikely happening. Are you a college student with $1,000 bucks to your name? As I mentioned earlier, you can't squeeze juice from a rock. They can try to sue you, but the second their lawyer contact you and finds out that you and the business have nothing to their name, they will vanish.

Now that we moved past the scary part of the conversation, talking about liability and lawsuits... Here is the realistic part. Except for some insanely rare bad luck (close to 0%).. You are not going to be sued for basically anything a company like Amazon will allow you to post, until you are already successful and sold countless of these widgets. If someone burns themselves, they return that crap and move on. If they feel really feisty, they leave a bad review to vent and move on. What are they gonna sue you for? What lawyer is going to take the case? It would have to be some REAL freak accident for a lawsuit to be worthy.

TL;DR : Do the very basic steps to protect yourself. Don't sell anything wildly dangerous. Don't commit fraud or do anything wildly illegal. Get insurance or consult an attorney if you have ALOT to lose. Then go on with your business of trying to sell your great products without anxiety or wasting headspace worrying about liability/lawsuits.

NeoDialectic · Jun 13, 2022

ArmanK said:
Hi @NeoDialectic , curious if you would be willing to share one or two of the products that you and your partner came up with using this framework? If not, no worries.

We never wrote the framework itself down before this thread, but the steps themselves were used naturally after years of finding and selling new products successfully. As per our business sales agreement, we can't disclose what items we sold in the past. But in general, we used this type of framework to find things in the beauty, health and the personal care fields.

We have sold physical items like automotive products in the past as well, but we didn't come up through this exact iterative process. It was before we were as experienced. Although it was using similar thought processes and a similar testing philosophy. Even if you don't go about finding products to sell our way, you should be able to apply many of the methods (research and testing) to help you launch your product.

If you are looking for something that was came up with using the framework that we would legitimately test, it's right in the example from the thread. I wrote the framework based on starting from square one and trying to come up with something.
I painstakingly went through the process multiple times, documenting every search, every major thought and after many dead ends I ended up on the sunscreen example. The step by step guide is a distillation of the process to get to the successful end result, pitfalls and all.

The sunscreen example, as written, is literally something we would proceed to test. The idea thread required us to be completely transparent of every part of the idea so we didn't go through with the idea and considered it the proverbial "sacrificial lamb" to be able to write a thorough guide.

NeoDialectic · Oct 20, 2022

wanttogofaster said:
My apologies if this has been asked in this or other threads.

It is well known that Chinese manufacturers (or their middlemen) sell their own products on Amazon and other e-commerce platforms. Even Amazon has had its own products that are exact copies of products previously sold by others.

Let's say someone goes through all the steps outlined in this thread and comes up with a winning product. What keeps your Chinese (or from any other country) manufacturer from launching the same product with a different brand, etc?

I can see how big brands (Nike, Apple, you name it) can protect themselves from this. But, are there any options for a small player just starting out?

Obviously, you and others on this forum have been able to make it work.

I'm curious to know if you've had to deal with this issue, and if yes, what did you do to keep your product or products at the top and still make it to the point where you could sell your company for 8 figures?

Thanks!

The best way to protect yourself is making quality items and Branding. A good portion of people will still go for the more expensive branded item so they know they bought a quality item.

This isn't a field I am an expert in because in my fields "copying" is just called competition. You beat the competition just like in any other way. Hopefully you had a running start. There may be other members that are more experienced in the "copying" issues with physical goods on Amazon that could chime in.

Your issues will directly correlate to the type of products you sell. If it is Chinese manufactured goods, I imagine you will be at risk of copy cats in short order. If it is a custom formulation or combination of ingredients done in the USA, they have no way of just "copying" you. Get big enough though and soon you will be dealing with counterfeits. We started having to deal with that the last 2 years of our business. The best way to handle this was being vigilant and flagging counterfeits as soon as they get put up. If you give them an opportunity to start making good money, you will never live it down.

Either way, you shouldn't have to worry about this until you have earned some success. Don't let it stop you from building a business. This is tomorrows problem, not todays. Todays problem is to start ASAP and make your first sale.

NeoDialectic · Jan 26, 2023

RisingStars said:
Hi @NeoDialectic
I did come up with a few new product ideas using the ‘Amazon review method‘ and your process here.
Besides your detailed testing process from this thread, do you think there is a way to determine from the get-go, if the project can turn into a 8-figure brand (= >1M profit/year)?
I feel like with a lot of niche problems there might be a couple search queries on Amazon for the issue, but even if I do convert 100% of them, I might profit only low 5 figures per year from that product. Adding a few more products might result in a low 6-fig/year brand - but still far from what you achieved with your 8-figure exit.
Sure there are other channels as well, but when solving a problem for a small niche, the market potential is tapped out at some point.

Do you recommend to just repeat the process and get a second thing going, which might hit big?
I‘ve started two brands already (one sold, one still going) so I am not desperat to get anything going - I‘d like the next thing to be big enough to achieve that 8 figure exit. The question is, is it possible to determine upfront which project/idea can scale to that figure or does one have to repeatedly follow the idea generation/testing/execution process until something takes off to the point that the 8 figure exit is possible?

Do you think in 2022, with so ‚many of the easy solutions been done and tackled‘ - as @fastlane_dad put it in the ‚Is E-Commerce Still Alive For 2022 / 2023‘ thread, the best way to achieve an 8-figure exit is to have a portfolio of smaller, niched down brands, rather than 1 that is doing crazy numbers because the products/categories which do the big numbers are flooded already?

Good question.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with adding many low-volume products to eventually build a big business from a compilation of many products.

That being said......We never wanted to deal with a lot of inventory or variations as that is more work for us. Our laziness demands that we try and apply "work smarter, not harder" to all aspects of our businesses. That means that we generally only go into fields with high potential and sell products with high clearances. High potential and niche sound contradictory, but it's not. Standard methods of finding niches end up being precisely what you mentioned. You find a minor problem that no one is addressing or has thought of addressing because it overlaps a lot of small markets. Then you handle it. Our method isn't looking for niche problems. Our approach is looking for niche value adds to big markets versus niche problems in small markets.

Here's what I mean. Suppose you pull up the standard youtube video on how to find a niche. In that case, you may end up providing a plastic hair bleaching tray that holds the mixed bleach, and as your value add, it has a built-in brush holder (ultimately making this up, btw). There may be nothing like it, which may solve the problem of having nowhere to put your brush down.

But the way I see it, how much can you really charge for a little extra molding in the plastic, and how many people are bleaching their own hair and then going on Amazon to buy additional equipment to do it? It's not a big group. Most of the people saving money by doing their own hair (already a smaller group) will probably mix things in the red solo cup they have at home. So because of how big the world is, you may still get sales every day, which is the standard "niche method." But it doesn't have the potential for high-profit margins or the possibility of having a big market, So you end up with a product making 10s of thousands, as you mentioned.

Now let's go with the sunscreen example from this thread..... The number of people that use sunscreen is 100s of millions. The amount of people with colored hair is 100s of millions? The overlap is millions. I can't know how many people have this issue and would be willing to pay for a solution, but the potential market is millions of people. The overlapping criteria still leave for a vast market.

Now moving on to the price. It looks like most products fall within the 10-30 range. We would do what we can to make it high-end and sell it for $60+. Rather than competing on price, I would rather spare no expense on ingredients/packaging/presentation and then charge accordingly... The higher-end market may cut down on your potential customer base, but it allows for much better profit margins. When it comes to beauty, people will always spend much more on themselves than they can afford if they think it's worth it. (i.e., Teenage girls spend absurd amounts on tanning and tanning oils with money they got from a minimum wage job.)

So now the math is simple. You've got millions of potential customers. At 50% profit margins, you need to convince 90 out of millions that they need your sunscreen to prevent discoloring their hair. Ninety a day out of millions isn't crazy. ($30 profit x 90 a day x 365 days = ~1mil). Especially considering that this is a product you reorder, so a customer's LTV is more than the first purchase.

See the difference? My product's value isn't found by overlapping several markets that leave a small market. Instead, I found a niche by overlapping 2 large markets, which leaves a large market, and I found a problem to solve for that market that isn't addressed yet. To the unsuspecting eye, it sounds the same, but it's not.

Since my product is expensive, I have a lot of leeways to spend on advertising. I would advertise the sunscreen product in the general spray sunscreen market. In other words, I have the potential of 10s of millions of eyeballs on it at all times. The person didn't even know they needed it, but while searching for Neutrogena sunscreen, they came up on sunscreen for blondes. "Sunscreen specially designed for blondes? WTF does my being blonde have to do with sunscreen? Wonder what that is? CLICK. Oh, wait, my hair does get a little discolored by my forehead. Wow, this is great; I had no idea there was a solution. BUY".

Hope that helps

hustlebear · Apr 20, 2022

This is absolute fire value that you're giving for free. Thank you for your time and willingness to help the community. I will be using this process to help identify my next product!

theguy22 · Apr 20, 2022

NeoDialectic said:
Bingo. This is an issue that affects a large group of people, so its scaling potential is huge. Even better, it has no direct competitors. This may seem like a home run, but I wouldn't get ahead of myself. Just because this is a common and unique problem that can be solved, doesn't mean people will actually search for or care for you to solve it.

What a cliff hanger to leave at hahah!

But yes this is what I have often found too. I'd discover a large enough problem that needs to be solved, only to find out that the reason it's not solved already is because it's near impossible to. This is what I realised when I had an idea for a car product few months ago.

Another example of this is an anti-perspirant (not deodorant) that doesn't leave yellow marks on white shirts. The difference between an anti-perspirant and a deodorant is that the former has aluminium whereas the latter doesn't. It's the aluminium that mixes with sweat that causes the yellow marks on white shirts. The problem is though, aluminium is what blocks out sweat, it's the reason why we wear anti-perspirants. Yes you could just wear a deodorant but a deodorant does not do anything in regards to sweat, it's just a super-weak cologne that makes you smell good.

There are many anti-perspirants, including ones from big brands like Axe/Lynx, Nivea, etc, that are advertised as 'anti-yellow marks' but none of them actually work.

NeoDialectic · May 31, 2022

ArmanK said:
@NeoDialectic wow. thank you. truly amazing post. i can only imagine how long this took to write out so clearly.

you have made a lightbulb go off in my head

curious to hear your thoughts on this idea that comes to mind -

a more effective treatment for cold sores?

i have been getting them since i was 7 years old (20+ years). and speaking from personal experience ive tried just about everything from prescription pills, to creams, to natural remedies and nothing seems to get rid of them in less than 7-14 days.

i know this is a super common problem faced by millions every year.

what are your initial thoughts? worth me digging in to deeper?

I think "a more effective treatment for cold sores" obviously sounds like a lucrative good idea. What your post seems to be missing is "and I've been using X ingredient/product on mine and it helps clear it up in days! Looking online, no one seems to selling this ingredient to help with cold sores".

Don't take this the wrong way, but otherwise, your post sounds like "Do you think curing cancer is a good idea? Is it worth me digging deeper?".

Zahida A. Khan · Jun 10, 2022

NeoDialectic said:
Hopefully all this has helped you guys peek behind the curtain a little bit and got you going in the right direction.

You did such a fantastic job documenting your process and most of what you covered, we had experienced.

In 2014, myself and 2 other digital marketers decided to start a physical product biz since we all had ZERO knowledge in this arena. Once the decision was made 2 setup a company together to learn the physical product biz, within 24 hours I managed to narrow which manufacturer we'll work with - just using common sense with partners can catapult the process faster

I highly recommend partners to keep you accountable and get the creative juices flowing, as well as to divide responsibilities.

Again @NeoDialectic, you have done a fantastic job as much of the same process we went through without any physical product knowledge

Happy to say that we were the 1st company to design a 3-in-1 Butter Knife and rode the wave until competition drove the price down - initially, twas upsetting 2 see competition, then we mellowed and said, "damn, we designed a fantastic product that attracted competition."

Walter Hay · Nov 15, 2022

NeoDialectic said:
I just noticed your reply now. Thanks for adding your experience.

We always stay away from importing these type of products from China. However I do know it is still pervasive in the field. It seems like you are well versed in this particular area. Do you have any advice for those that decide to work with overseas companies anyways? Anything specific to improve their chances of success and a decrease quality control issues?

Yes I do have something very specific to offer on this subject. It is a sub-section of the chapter on Quality in my safe sourcing and easy importing book:

31.2 Cost Cutting Measures.

Although China is renowned for low prices, those notably low prices often result in manufacturing down to a price. I have seen prices for very low value items quoted to 2 decimal points of a cent e.g. $0.0624 per pc.

Once haggling or huge buying power causes manufacturers to trim every fraction of a cent from their cost they will resort to extreme measures in cutting costs of materials and labor.

Here are some of the things I have seen and they can be very difficult to detect:

● Brass plating instead of gold plating looks attractive and is in fact the preferred look in some market sectors, but it is not gold and should not be described as gold. Large surveys have found that most women prefer the look of brass rather than gold because they think the brass looks more like their perception of gold, so cheapskate buyers get away with it.

● Silver painted mild steel instead of stainless steel. If it is well done you have to scratch it to be sure, but sooner or later it will rust.

● Thickness of plastic moldings reduced very slightly. The total weight of plastic resin saved over huge production runs can be in the tons. Reduced thickness means reduced strength. See Ch.10.11 regarding prices.

● UV stabilizer is sometimes left out of plastic products or simply reduced unless very strongly specified and checked. Even if not regularly used outdoors, light entering a room through a window will shorten the product’s lifespan.

● Mild steel components such as screws are sometimes plated to look like stainless steel, but they corrode, sometimes in a critical part of equipment.

● Items supplied as leather are often made of polyurethane (PU) plastic, with a leather perfume added. Beware of items described as leather in advertisement headlines, but in another part of the ad, described as PU leather or Faux leather.

In view of these possibilities you might give more consideration to paying for a quality inspection service.

WALTER

xShepherdx · May 28, 2022

NeoDialectic said:
What do I need?

An Amazon seller account

Willingness to spend $50-$200 on product and another couple hundred on advertising. There may be cheaper ways to do this with close to zero investment and I will annotate those options, but they all come with drawbacks

First off, thank you so much for sharing! This thread is a goldmine and even has my girlfriend excited by the possibilities. We've spent all morning brainstorming ideas using the process you've laid out and have come up with some great ideas to chase down further.

With that said, the paranoid part of me wonders how you manage/avoid potential liabilities.

For example, when looking at heating pads, there are people reporting that they were burned by the product. This was seen in popular products and niche pads (even 5-star reviews, variable heat settings, etc.), so I'm thinking that it's fairly unavoidable and comes with the territory.

With a product like this, would you carry some sort of insurance? Or is a disclaimer good enough? Or is this even a problem and am I just overthinking? :rofl:

Up to this point, I only have experience with digital products, so any advice in this area would be greatly appreciated!

NeoDialectic · Jun 29, 2022

fridge said:
I have a question in regards to optimizing time in creating an e-commerce product, or testing new ideas before production.
Quick backstory:
I found a product in a certain niche on Amazon that I can compete with. I've fixed a major complaint about the product that I see in the reviews on every similar product within this niche. Not only did I fix the common complaint that no one else has been able to address, but I've added a frequently bought item together to it to create a bundle, and best of all, I'll be able to offer this bundled, improved product at the same price or very close to the price of the existing products on the market and still make a profit.

My question here is this:
While I have created a product that improves upon previous iterations, and have added an additional item to create a bundle, it's taken me about 3 months from start (working on fixing common complaint, sourcing additional item, adding logo/etc, quality control) to receiving my first shipment of 150 items (within the next 10-15 days). This doesn't include when I actually receive the product, hire a product photographer, write copywriting for the ads, create the listing, etc, which will likely be another week or two. My concern here is, if I invested all this time into one product, and it fails, it doesn't seem repeatable to keep creating one product at a time - at this rate, even if I did it for 7 years I'd only have 15 products tested - if everything went smoothly.
So what strategy has worked best for you in regards to minimizing risk/increasing product creation time? Do you develop multiple products in a certain niche at one time so even if one fails you have 2 or 3 more you can test out? Do you spend time/money running ads/etc to shopify pages as if the product was already made/developed before starting a new product endeavor? Just curious what your thoughts are on this.

This is a great question, so I will think about maybe making a bigger post on this. In the meantime...

It's not a race. Things take time. If you have the mental bandwidth, stamina, and funds to test multiple things at one time. I won't be the one stopping you! But it's not something I would generally recommend, especially as a beginner. You will make alot of mistakes along the way as you go through iterations. Doing ventures sequentially allow you to make the mistake, learn from it, and prevent that mistake from happening the next time.

If you really wanted to expedite your progress, I would go more towards spreading out your ideas across many genre's versus focusing on just one. For example, if you wanted to try a bunch of things, I wouldn't recommend going from making 1 product to sell on Amazon to trying 5 different products to sell on Amazon. There is so much you will learn from putting up your first product on Amazon. 1 of those things may even be "oh boy, I really misread what Amazon customers want". It would be better for you to have 1 product in the works to sell on Amazon and then also dip your toes in your Etsy Candle making business (probably a horrible business idea, but it was just an example off the top of my head!). Or your Power washing empire. etc... Then after you learn from all these different areas, you can start leveraging what you learned in one into the other. My recent post HERE, kind of talks about this. Make sure to read @fastlane_dad post right after mine to see that there are different ways to approach this.

As you can see, this may be a long road. But there's beer and free ice cream at the end, so keep driving! This is why we usually recommend you have a good way to derive income in the meantime that allows you to continue living a decent life in the meantime. (Also known as a job)

DCDeuce · Aug 22, 2022

DougRMR said:
Guys, I might've overestimated how accessible my supplements would be. I've been searching for about a month now and although the active ingredient is possible to obtain, it would be in raw material and not in tablets like I expected them to be. I don't know how to make tablets or capsules, I guess I could do it but it depends on how accessible it is to me.

I dunno if it's a question of not knowing where to look (@NeoDialectic helped me come up with great ideas on where to look) but I was unaware that getting these things in white label has been stupidly hard.

The reason I doubled down on this for so long was because a lot of the manufacturers I contacted told me that they had the active ingredient but they never explicitly stated that they didn't work in tablets or capsules. It didn't help that when I asked whether they worked white label, they said that they did. However, they were referring to raw materials sent from laboratory to laboratory and they put those raw materials under another manufacturer's name. It seems obvious in hindsight that I should've been very clear but I assumed that supplement manufacturers had those features included (tablets/capsules).

I already finished the copy for the product's landing page and the opt-ins for the email. Already wasted the money on the servers/domains, shit... I should've been very specific and I would've saved money and time.

I'm kinda at a crossroads here. I figured I might as well see if there is demand for the product and then figure out if it is worth investing in capsule/tablet creation on my end. But I have a gut feeling maybe I should drop and find a new idea, but one that is carefully vetted and where my investment/return is very clear from the start.

Where are you at with this?

One of the ways I tested demand was using Helium 10 and tracking sales of competitors, I then started making a list of keywords based on competitors and tracked those as well so see where search volume was. After watching countless YT gurus I was able to understand that search volume should be over 30k searches a month and the search volume for my keywords far surpasses that. I will have heavy competition but I'm game to carve out my piece of the action as long as I can support it financially.

I'm sorry for not updating but I ended up getting my AMZ seller account, three landed samples, box/label designs, and my AMZ Brand Registry over the last two months.

My first shipment is currently being made as well. I decided to bite the bullet and run with my idea. I hired someone to put up my landing page and build out links to educate the buyer since the landing page does a good job of explaining in easy-to-understand bite-size chunks of information.

Keep pushin

Walter Hay · Oct 20, 2022

NeoDialectic said:
If it is a supplement...... Be careful sourcing those from China. I'm not saying you can't do it succesfully. I am saying there is a decent chance you are gonna get a crap product with crap ingredients that wouldn't pass American QC standards.

I was pleased and somewhat relieved to read this. I would never buy such products from China. In 2008 there was a scandal due to the chemical Melamine being added to baby formula to give the impression that the milk contained a higher level of protein than was the case. 300,000 children were affected, 54,000 of them were hospitalized and 6 died.

According to the China Daily, of the company executives, 2 were executed, 3 got a life sentence, and 2 got 15 year sentences. About the same time melamine was discovered in eggs and other food.
As a PS, a similar aduleration of cough syrup (some from China, but numerous other sources) has resulted in the death of hundreds of children in many countries.

An American pediatrician Michael L. Bennish published in a medical journal in 1995 his opinion that "death tolls must be in the tens of thousands".

Supplement and cosmetic sellers beware!

wanttogofaster said:
My apologies if this has been asked in this or other threads.

It is well known that Chinese manufacturers (or their middlemen) sell their own products on Amazon and other e-commerce platforms. Even Amazon has had its own products that are exact copies of products previously sold by others.

Let's say someone goes through all the steps outlined in this thread and comes up with a winning product. What keeps your Chinese (or from any other country) manufacturer from launching the same product with a different brand, etc?

I can see how big brands (Nike, Apple, you name it) can protect themselves from this. But, are there any options for a small player just starting out?

Obviously, you and others on this forum have been able to make it work.

I'm curious to know if you've had to deal with this issue, and if yes, what did you do to keep your product or products at the top and still make it to the point where you could sell your company for 8 figures?

Thanks!

Those who have my book know that I warn that copies of products being made in China often appear on the market before the designer sees a prototype.

Walter

NeoDialectic · Mar 31, 2023

Parks said:
Hey Neo, could you share some of your failed product ideas? A few more examples could go a long ways with me.

This thread deserves a failed product ideas post, but I haven't had a chance to do it. There were alot of "failed product ideas" that we went through that also had nothing to do with this type of framework but rather the good old fashion "see a problem a fix it".

I can outline a few examples that relate to this framework quickly though.

1.
Here is a run through of a product example that the first version of this thread started with
-Attribute: Autism
-Are people with Autism recommended to take specific vitamins to help their condition? Yes, there seems to be alot of studies and results for that question. Doctors do recommend certain vitamins (like Vit D) and recommend staying away from too much of others
-Are there already solutions? I found one brand that's doing well and nothing else. That's GREAT considering it's such a huge market.

Then I scrapped this as the example as there may be regulatory concerns since we are dealing with providing for a disease. It may still be completely fine and worth it, but the complication wasn't worth getting into for simplicities sake in the thread. That single multivitamin for autism that I found a year ago is now selling 30+ units a day at $55. Not too shabby for something that probably costs them $3-$8.... I also see some new players in the game.....

2.
An example of a product we ditched was a memory supplement. This was over a decade ago. We put up a website with an order form and advertised on google. We had a lot of hits but only got 1 or 2 people signing up for preorders. At the time we didn't think that was a strong response so we closed that idea down. It was probably a mistake as these types of supplements are all the rage nowadays and we would have been one of the first. While this was a long time before we had anything close to the "testing framework" we now use, we came up with the idea and tested it in broadly the same way.

We had alot of products over the last decade that were good examples of "failures" but aren't allowed to discuss them because their IP got sold with the rest of our business and part of the sale is confidentiality. I'll have to think about what other products we made with this framework that are outside of the sale that failed and I can give as an example.

NeoDialectic · Aug 8, 2023

STEFANTP said:
@NeoDialectic @fastlane_dad thank you a lot for all this wisdom and personal experience. One question for you: PRICE.

How do you think about what margin to add? I am in the process of bringing a product and I now thinking about the final price. I am afraid that it will be too high or too low. How do you make your calculations?

So: Product price + shipping +taxes + custom clearance tax + Profit - What do we put here?

Thank you!

Start at a price point that will stand out from competitors. If you found some process to make things alot cheaper, then start by being much cheaper. But don't try and fight based on price when you are sourcing things for the same price. It's a game Walmart has made billions on, but it's not one that is fun to play for most normal businesses.

That means try to be at a price that bridges a big gap between competitors or be the most expensive one. So if you see that most competitors are $25 and there are a few luxury versions for $100... I would come in at either $50 or $125. Regardless, I recommend healthy margins.

If you are starting by selling online, don't overthink the price. Start somewhere and change as you go. Selling so fast that you are going to run out of stock? Keep raising the price. Not selling enough? Try lowering the price. You can easily do this while you are still a brand new online company.

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