I said: "The website is $3000". They said: "Too expensive! I was thinking $500!"

[Fox]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

Hey Max I think you missed a step here.

"I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients.

The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality.

Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering."

Okay so cool you got 3 problems here...
- no place where they can list all their services (sales)
- struggling to keep track of the clients (systems)
- attract the right clients (marketing)

You then jump from talking about these problems to the price you would like to work with - $3,000.

That price sounds quite fair but you missed a step...

- You don't know what it is costing them to have those issues right now
- You don't know what it will be worth to them and their business to have them fixed
- You don't know their current cashflow/budget available to work on this

You got the data but there isn't any dollar amounts attached to it.

If you want 3k you got to balance it out with numbers on the other side.
- how much they are behind on their goals $$$
- how much a customer could have been worth to them every time they lose one $$$
- how much a great website with a dialled in system could be helping them out each month $$$

Without asking the above questions you both know they have a problem but not what the problem is worth to them to fix it. You are thinking of one figure in your mind (backed by your experience and perspective) but in their minds they might value that problems as being not a big deal at all - at least compared to other areas where they could be spending their money. So what you see as a problem worth 3k to fix they might see as no big deal - you got to build up the sale more before moving to asking about the budget.

To get paid now (and to make it 3k) you need to show why it needs to be fixed now and why 3k is a great amount.

You do this by linking problems with real dollar amounts of focusing on what they gain by fixing the problem but also what they keep on losing by not fixing the problem. This create a strong need, urgency and a logical reason to invest at a higher amount than they originally had planned to.

How to do this:
Next time after you have asked about problems and before you talk budget ask a few questions like...

- What percentage of sales do you think the website helps with each month right now?
- And what percentage do you think a great website could be doing if it was all set up right??
- Okay, so that is a gap of _____ % - so just to know what is at stake here how much is that in dollars roughly???

Or...

-To help understand what options I should be looking at can you take about what business goals you are hoping to hit the next 3/6/12 months?
- And right now how behind on those are you? What kinda of gains do you need to see??
- And how much do you think the right website could help with that plan???

Those are just examples but the logic is you are connecting their current real problems with current real numbers.

Then when you mention your 3k budget it is being compared to what they are losing out on (a BIG amount) and not being compared to something small like a $500 WIX website they saw last year.

In short:
> connect their problems with real dollar amounts
> start linking those together in their mind so there is a clear big issue with a lot of real dollars at stake of being lost
> then use that big number to make your budget look very reasonable and fair (which it should be)

Hope that helps.

 

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[eliquid]

I think everyone here has some valid points to a degree.

As someone that has been designing websites since the late 90's, selling marketing services, being an affiliate for certain "broad appeal products", and now runs a SaaS... the one thing I see over and over again is the majority of the time you can't "re-teach" someone easily.

I've seen it trying my services as a web developer.

I've seen it selling my marketing services.

I've seen it being an affiliate for diet, teeth, skin, biz opp.

I've seen it getting people into my SaaS which was a first to market mover and years ahead of it's time.

I've seen it just handling the Paid advertising campaigns for companies like Alibaba, John Deere, Virgin, and TeamViewer.

Customers are like onions. They have layers.

Each one of them are at a different layer in life. Each of them ALSO have a different layer of understanding "things" too on top of that.

It didn't matter which sales technique I used, how many times I followed up with different angles, how many times I tried to reposition the sale and value.. some people get it and some people just don't.

How close someone is to buying what I am selling is a major factor, before I pitch them.

Example... I got a blue 1969 Ford Bronco for sale. Everyone loves these cars, but only a few will actually want to buy one at the price I am selling for. Therefor, everyone will want to talk to me and kick the tires, but only a small % actually have cash and the trigger pulling to actually buy it.

The ones that don't, I can spend all day and night trying to convince them to buy it.. but if they don't have the money or aren't really at the right point emotionally to purchase it.. they won't and I am just wasting my time. They might be months or years away from that point.. so I'm not going to waste months on them right now with different techniques.

In marketing, this is why we have "funnels". Top of funnel ( ToFu ), Middle and bottom funnels. People are in different modes and emotions and stages of "ready".

The ones you can convince on the spot with SPINNING, still a lot of times have doubts. You got them reframed now and they pull the trigger, but everything afterward is like pulling teeth or you get a ton of changes/feedback that seems on they are actually on the fence or negative. Changing someone's mind like this has typically led me to find the customer doesn't end up being my "perfect customer".

It's even happened to me as a buyer myself.

If Im on the fence about something myself and I get pitched on something and decide to pull the trigger based on that, I typically find myself months later re-evaluating if I actually did the right thing and pointing out all the "bad" or negative in the purchase and how I should have been more careful in my selection. Sort of a mini buyers remorse if you will.

So I see it from the purchaser, and seller, point of view.

I now spend my time only selling to those who are ready to buy. People at the bottom of the funnel already ( BoFu ). I've played the game of follow ups and reframing and different tactics AND I've played the new game of selling to the right people at the right time who have the money. There is more traction on focusing on the right people/right time.

I've learned it takes the same amount of time selling a $10,000 website, as it does a $1k website.. so why not sell the $10k one? And yes it's true, the people that end up buying the $1k website tend to be your worst overall customers too.

Hundreds of websites built, thousands of marketers taught in my SaaS, and millions in products sold for myself and for my SEO/PPC clients over the last 23 years and it's the same pattern and results in all of those examples over and over again. Sometimes I am in charge of the sales, sometimes others are.

And one thing has stayed the same. People are only ready to buy when they are ready and most can't be "retaught".

The ones that can be retaught, most times will nit pick things to death and micro manage everything past that.

It's like the saying, "when the student is ready the teacher will appear" - When the buyer is ready is the money will appear. But spending your time trying to reframe someone that is not ready typically doesn't work well. Sure you will get more sales from this, but the time spent could have been used instead in closing one $10k customer instead of 3 more $1k customers... know what I mean?

The only ones it does work well on, are the ones ready to buy anyways ( or close to that bottom funnel BoFu layer ) and more than likely didn't need the whole SPIN selling to begin with.

I want to focus on the dollars, not the dimes. Therefor, I don't try to spend more time "selling" to the low end customers and SPINNING them to try to convince them. I just go right for the higher end and spend my time there.

.

 

[Kid]

Welcome to the forum Max!

I don't know if you've been around here - if not read Andy Black and Fox posts.
I don't remember exactly but i think it was Andy who said that he
vets clients based on how they see him:as a value vs. as a cost (among other factors).

This client definitely sees you as the cost and he won't be a good fit.
Move on and be grateful that you don't have to work with him.

 

[BizyDad]

And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

I think you only made one actual mistake.

So I just want to amend this statement...

After you agreed you could do it for $500, it's impossible to bring it back to $3,000.

They originally gave a budget range of $500 to $1,000, to that you could have probably gotten them up to $1,200 or $1,500. Heck maybe you could have gotten them all the way to $3,000. You certainly should have gotten $1,000.

But not after you told them that $500 is possible. At that point that was all they were willing to pay.

You could have said the basic website would be a thousand. But if they wanted feature x you'd be willing to do that for $1500, and in the sales meeting feature x was something that was important to them, and if they wanted feature x and feature y it'll be the full $3,000

One thing that I do in my sales meetings is I ask if they've gotten other quotes, I also ask what their budget is for the project.

This way I usually have an idea of their expectations before I present the price. If I'm going to give them a price of substantially higher than their expectations, then I can at least soften and explain the value of it.

One final thought on ferreting out the budget. A lot of people will say something like "I was hoping you would tell me what the budget was". To that I usually throw out a figure significantly higher than what I'm thinking in this manner... In this sales meeting I might have said, okay so if I told you the the cost was $5,000 would that be a shocking number to you or would that sound like a deal?

I like to throw out the higher number, that way when I eventually throw out 3K I sound much more reasonable. It's a framing technique in sales.

If they say "I don't know" to that question, then you legitimately know that they are not shocked by it and likely even have the ability to pay it, but they don't want to divulge that information.

Final thought. Sounds like you're just starting out, congrats on getting out there and conducting the meeting. The more these you have the more you'll learn and the better you'll get. And if you really need the business to build a portfolio, go ahead and do it for the $500 and be happy that you closed the deal.

So many people can't close the deal.

Hope that helps.

 

[biophase]

Thanks for your reply!

1. For me, the main difference between a $3000 website and a $500 one is the thinking process.
   For $3000 I'm going to try to build as much trust as possible with potential clients by thinking about their behavior and presenting the information in the right order and professional manner. So it would be very easy for them to take action after visiting the website.
   
   
2. 3. The results might be:
   — a clear picture of what they offer, how it works, and how to take action, so they can stop answering all these questions on the phone and email. (saving time and building trust)
   — they can stop manually tracking all the customers, schedule and transactions by implementing Online Booking on their website. (saving time and reducing workload and stress)
   — they can start competing with other businesses in their niche by having a properly built web presence (getting new clients)

This is exactly what you should have said to them.

 

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[Johnny boy]

Those people are what we in sophisticated business circles call "jerkoffs".

I've sold cars, built websites, and I run a lawn care company. Here's a fun way to handle jerkoffs.

"We're looking for this car we saw on your website"
"Here's the car! It will be $25,000. Just like it's listed for on our website."
"We can only pay $20,000. Give me a discount"
"OHHH! My bad! I showed you the wrong car then. Here's a $20,000 car that fits your budget"
"We want this one for $20,000."
"I see. Well, we can only offer it at that price in the color brown. Would that work?"
"Yes"
"So, you'll...take it in the brown...for $20,000?"
"Yes"
"I'll go tell my manager you want to...take it in the brown... Not to be disrespectful, but you seem like the kind of guy who'd do it for a lot less".

I'll never forget when I was selling a car with one of my coworkers. The other salesman was in his mid 60's and has had two heart attacks already. He was just selling cars for shits and giggles at this point. We were sharing a deal and negotiating with a customer later in the evening around 8pm right before closing, and the customer asked "Is there any wiggle room in the price?" And me and the other guy look at each other and both smile and we do this in sync:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r4-yzCyVw&ab_channel=NathanNoah



Just get rid of the jerkoffs! Laugh about them and then move on to the serious customers! It's just a part of doing business. You'll get someone who asks you for a website and thinks $4,000 is cheap! Just move on to the next one. Do you know how many people we give lawn care quotes to that think our prices are crazy high? We can get two identical properties and tell one person it'll be $130 a month who thinks that's too expensive and the other place could be $160 a month and they say it's dirt cheap! Just make sure to be more professional than your competitors and you'll be able to charge higher prices, which allows you to pay better wages and attract good people, and build a good reputation. A race to the bottom puts everyone in a ditch. Shitty employees, shitty customers, shitty profits, shitty reviews, etc.

 

[Alxf]

Hey check this video out, value based pricing

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RFk8ZmIDrFM

I remember watching this video some time back.. and I think it's bullshit. It treats this negotiation as some kind of chess match, where you are trying to outmaneuver and convince your opponent. Think about it - when was the last time, in practice, that you have managed to fundamentally change someone's mind or approach to a situation?

Some people want stuff that's good (value based), and others want stuff that's cheap (price based).

You can't convert the second group into the first. "Selling" is a huge waste of time and energy that could be better put to use to find and qualify potential customers who *know* that they have a problem, *want* to solve it, and want a *good* solution from a reliable provider.

The more money I have made, and the more serious I am about solving a problem, the *MORE* I want to pay, not *less*. Why? Because it's important to me that the problem is solved well. Find people in the same position, not the ones who are F*cking around.

They are out there!

 

[Brrr]

Honestly, when it comes to small businesses and websites, you got to pitch it as an ROI decision and explain how a good website is going to pay for itself. And I say this as a business owner that got a £2500 website for £500 as it was a friend that did it, only now do I see the value of it, but I was being very stingy beforehand.

For my website, there was relatively small consideration on getting the aesthetics right, but he nailed the SEO and the ease of use from the point of view of the customer. Also, a good web designer will suggest the best tools to improve your business so you get a sort of online consultancy along with the site itself and suggestions on the next steps for you to take to improve your online presence.

In this particular case, I would have angled towards building an email list of clients, automatic reminders and as you mentioned online bookings. Pricing the different features might also have helped break down the costs in the mind of a client. Or maybe it might have been worth your while to throw together a WordPress in an afternoon for $500.

On the other hand, don't feel too bad for losing clients that want to underpay for your services. I turn down events more often than not, sometimes clients make out that they are doing me a favour by letting me go to their tiny event and only have to pay them 15% of my takings. No thank you, let me do a wedding that pays upfront, rain or shine, instead.

As I always tell my staff, let the other business have the bad customers.

 

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[rpeck90]

I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

At this point, you lost and should move on.

-

I've found there are 3 types of buyer, each with a different price band they are comfortable with: -

1. Convenience buyers ($)
   Highly price sensitive - will typically purchase regularly but will base the majority of the purchase decision on its convenience. The minute the transaction is no longer such, they will find another vendor.
   
   
2. Impulse buyers ($$)
   Willing to spend more, but still quite averse to spending a "lot" on a product/service. Typically buying because it will enhance their experience. These buyers are typically quite emotive about the purchase.
   
   
3. Equity buyers ($$$)
   Want to spend a large amount on a product/service because of the underlying "equity" it will provide. This is where brands reside.

-

Your issue stems from trying to charge "equity" prices to "impulse" buyers.

To them, "making a website" is a simple process which requires about 10 hours in front of a screen and minimal coding skills (most "professional services" seem to justify people's lives through the amount of time they bill for).

The best thing you can do in that situation is compile a detailed proposal of exactly what they need (not what you think they need, what their logo might be) - specific, detailed, information about the services and platforms required to automate their business the way they want. For example, a good service you may want to introduce them to is SimplyBook.me.

You then itemize the proposal, saying that "API integration will have to cost $x, XYZ will cost $y". You put a total price at the end (maybe add something like a service charge or amendments charge or whatever) and say that's what they need. Don't mention anything else.

Deliver the proposal as a printed document and say that's what would be required to get their business working as they want. The proposal should act as a bulwark for any future negotiations they may have, as they'll likely be talking with agencies (who are trying to rip them off).

-

This: -

a) positions you as an authority (not some guy who happens to be able to code HTML)
b) endears you to their trust (most agencies overcharge and are woefully incompetent)
c) justifies the higher price you'd have to charge to create a solution that actually works (for the long term)

ONLY after elevating their viewpoint of the project (from an impulse purchase to an equitable investment) will you be able to ever hope of justifying a higher price. And even then, if you're going to be using a premium theme on Wordpress, you have bigger problems.

Much more I could add but that's the crux of the issue.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

Don't work with cheapskates. Not only will they fight you for every penny, they'll constantly harass you over minor details.

$20,000 clients are easier to deal with than $2,000 clients.

Avoid losers.

 

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[Equilibrium]

Tell them there's a difference between a static website and a community driven one.
Sure you can have a splash page or simple site with information built for a few hundred dollars (or much less)
But.. and here's the big but.

With crap websites comes crap security.
They are a medical office, ask them how much they would pay if they paid someone to slap together a website full of security holes and their database was leaked. This is what they face.

Right now there's a company I know currently crapping bricks
They cheapened out on security and built a website from word-press and store ALL their sensitive files in it. Everything from W2 to company secrets, dental records and more leaked on the web because they wanted to save a few hundred dollars.

I found their files just browsing the web. The person building the website didn't know what they were doing and indexed their files, which are viewable to the wold with a click.
As a doctor they should understand the importance of personal information, especially files which guarantee lawsuits because they wanted to save a Benjamin.

It sounds like this doctor is facing the same thing, mistaking a static webpage for confidential doctor/client privileged meetings, notes about patients, and a collaborative platform to book clients? Golly Goldilocks I can hear the lawyers dancing the jig from over here.

Tell them if they don't care about security then you want nothing to do with their project,
be prepared to walk. Not every job is worth taking.

 

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[maxkoss]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

 

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[Tourmaline]

Nothing is inherently expensive.

Something appears to be expensive if its price appears to be much higher than the perceived value.

Is a $50,000 car expensive? Well it depends on the car doesn't it? $50,000 for a 10 year old Civic is expensive. $50,000 for a new Lambo is cheap.

It seems like your potential client does not understand the value being provided when building a $3000 website. Perhaps give them an illustration of what a $500 website looks like and then an illustration of a $3000 website. Perhaps show how the value of the $3000 website will bring in more sales, leads, etc that far surpasses the extra $2500.

 

[Jon L]

One way to phrase this to them is this:

"I did say that I could do this for $500 (or whatever it was). That is for a quick and dirty website that is slapped together. I've thought about this, and your business won't benefit from such a site. We need to carefully think through how to talk to your target market (yada yada yada). If we do that, we're going to be able to draw in far more clients than we would if we just put something together really quick.

How much is one client worth to you? $500/year? So, if you just get 5 more clients this year you'll break even on this site. (yada yada yada)

"Well, the most we're willing to give you is $1000."

"That's too bad. I don't do work that I don't think is going to benefit my client, and the limited amount of time I'll be able to dedicate to your project at that price will result in a product that won't deliver what you're looking for. I'm sorry, but I'll need to decline."

"Well I can go to Fiverr and pay $500."

"That is true. Finding someone that can deliver actual results, though, isn't easy. I am one such person, and I charge accordingly. You may get lucky on Fiverr and find someone that give you the quality you need for $500. What's much more likely, though, is that you'll end up with a $500 website, and a lot of wasted time. However, I hope you find what you're looking for."

...

4 weeks later.

"Hey, so that Fiverr guy charged $750 and didn't really do what we wanted. How much would you charge to fix what he did?"

(without even looking at the site)

"$3000."

 

[CoderSales]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

A few points here.

1.) The previous client that you helped, what was the price of that project? Was this around the $3,000 or $1,000 mark? The saying "birds of a feather..." comes into play here.

2.) Also, you should have a refined vetting process. Meaning, learn how to qualify prospects before you talk to them. So for the next time referral, send them a Calendly link in order to get a time on your calendar and in that link have them fill out the 10 questions so you can get a feel for the prospect/project before you even talk to them. Here's a link with more information: https://help.calendly.com/hc/en-us/articles/226893168-Invitee-Questions
In those questions, ask the business, their position (you should only be talking to the CEO) why they are wanting to talk to you and monthly marketing budget. If they balk at this, it's been my experience those companies are low budget pain in the rear end clients OR very low budget. In other words, not worth the time. When you maintain a high criteria of who you work with and be selective, prospects can tell and respect it. And, hopefully you have good results you can show to back all of this up.

3.) During the consultation, good job with the SPIN method. Get to the 'why'. With what you provided, I just don't think they're a great fit. Picture working with them... for ~$500, they're already nickel and diming you for 'moving blocks here and there' and they haven't even signed the contract or paid the invoice yet. Imagine the first meeting to discuss revisions and implementations...

4.) Don't use a proposal. If you're spending the time to use a proposal, you're trying to sell. They should say "we have a deal" from that in person consultation because you've covered what they really need - a digital identity that conveys their services and attracts the clients that can afford (the irony here...) their services. That's where the questions from Calendly come into play because you can use that information in your presentation and by the time you present the price, they're already thinking of this as an investment rather than an expense. As it stands now, it sounds like this business owner still thinks of this as an expense under ~$1000.

5.) If they are saying $500-1000, they can do $1,500/3000 they just don't want to. Also, where did they get that price range from? This pretty much proves they are a price shopper buyer. Gross. Also, the fact that they have no digital footprint at all (no social or anything) says they don't see the value of your services. They've never invested in that before thus have never been through that process. Sounds like a bad lead.

If you really want to close this (I get it, we've all been there) call them back and say you can do it for $2,700 (or whatever reasonable rate you would take) provided they supply you copy & you get a 'yes' within 24 hours to get it secured on your workbench. Get everything on a Scope of Work so there is no scope creep and have them pay 100% upfront since you're taking a hit on the rate.

Otherwise blow them out and move on.

 

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[PapaGang]

People have probably already said this but here is my take as a 15 year website veteran:
Thank them, and run away. Now you know what a shit client looks like.

One of the most valuable lessons I learned in the business is when a guy told me to look at my client list every year and fire my clients that caused 80% of the hassles and labor but only provided 20% of the revenue. The 80/20 ratios are never exact, but you get my point.

Clients in the $15,000 to $50,000 range are much easier to deal with. Trust me.

Are you just starting out? I ask because I'm not sure what stage your business is in. I sold my first website for 5 grand, and that was 15 years ago. I found at that time that anyone serious would pay at least that much. Over time I found the $10,000 to $30,000 clients were much better, they already did their research, they knew what they wanted, they knew the market pricing, and their expectations were more in alignment with the services I provided.

 

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[Devampre]

Sounds like they are concerned/uncertain as to how a website will actually get them results. This can be tough as they have never had a website or any social media before. I believe a deal can still be made if you wish to pursue this project, but it is also okay to refuse a project if you simply cannot do it for less than $3000.

I will say that I sometimes do the cheaper jobs, but it depends on the clients/situation. If they are someone who is well connected and can give you referrals and a good testimonial it could be worthwhile. But, sometimes a project isn't worth it. I'm still figuring this all out too.

I forget who first said it, but there is a saying that goes something like, "The clients who pay the least are often the clients who are the most difficult to work with." I believe there is some truth to that.

 

[Steeltip]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

Man, from my experience being in sales there is nothing that you can do about this sort of customer. We have a saying in the car business "the only things we cant overcome are ignorance and poverty." It sounds like your process was spot on from what I understand. Though this customer just has no idea of the going rate of these types of services.

This is exactly the type of situation in which I would "invoice" a customer. If there is ever any ignorance about the going rate of service or price of an item. You should give them a little bit of hard proof to demonstrate the work it takes to get something like a website done. Pull up competitors' prices/quotes and show them that this is the same everywhere they go. Show them the back end of the website and the amount of manpower/knowledge it takes to build a website. Explain that the kind of website they could make on Wix doesn't even hold a candle to your expertise on copy printing and advertising and SEO that they need to run a successful website. The customer needs HARD EVIDENCE THAT THEY CAN SEE in order for you to get your point across. People don't give half a F*ck about what you say to them it's about what they can SEE. Pull up facts and figures about how they are losing so much business to competitors without having a website.

Also, you can uncover problems which is FANTASTIC don't get me wrong, but you also need to ask questions that create problems for them. Such as "You have clearly done quite well as an office with no website, it's not easy to run a successful dental practice so clearly you're doing something right by getting this much referral traffic. Though have you ever considered expanding the practice? Have you noticed how some practices have gained three or four new offices in half the time you have even been open? Well, that is to do with the fact that they can give so much more information about their services and can prospect for new business."

These types of questions you will learn to ask just by doing your fact-finding over time don't appear overnight. But keep hitting doors and prospecting, as we say in the business "turn and burn" these people will likely not buy at this point because of sticker shock. Though hopefully you can be armed in the future for these types of encounters.

I would also HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Never Split the Difference as a booK where you can learn a whole lot about negotiating and deal with people who low ball you.

 

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[Fox]

Hey, Rob! Thanks for your insightful response! This is a very good point to link their problem with a real dollar!
I'm just a little bit concerned if they would be willing to discuss with me such issues. Do you have any advice on how to build enough trust before moving to this king of questions?

Thanks!

If you got to talk about problems this should not be much harder or any harder.

Just naturally transition to their goals.

One way to think about this is you already covered one side of the coin - what they don't want:
- their issues
- their problems
- their challenges

Now you are just covering the other side - what they do want:
- their goals
- their revenue targets
- the potential for gains and improvements

So since you got to ask about one side already you should be fine bringing up the other.

Overall though some general good ways to build trust:
- ask great questions that show you really want to help
- listen well and look for the right topics to ask more about
- be authentic and give them the best advice possible even if it goes against your own immediate self interests
- if it makes sense you can add in some lessons/principles learned from past clients you helped

I find in general that just keeping the focus on them builds a lot of trust too. We all want to work with people who genuinely are interested in helping us and who focus fully on us and our problems/goals.

 

[BizyDad]

I don’t really what is going through in their mind. If they are simply assuming that “what you are doing is easy” even when they don’t know the field then they are just not the right customer for you.

From a consumer perspective the biggest fear is being paid for a huge premium feature that is not really necessary. When you pitch that the 3000 dollar product is superior, but to the consumer the cost is certain but the extra reward is doubtful. It is what you say and they don’t really know if it is true. Choosing the cheaper option is more than often a safe choice of not getting ripped off. And when you try to educate them too much their ego come into play and they will pretend that they know your stuff and tell you “what you do is easy”.

Don’t get too upset over “what you actually did wrong”. Sales books tend to market themselves as some sort of secret ingredient to get the client to say yes, and in reality is a softer version of “get rich book” targeted at sales people. Top sales people do not have higher closing ratio than average sales people facing the same quality pool of leads, and it is mainly the hardwork on the numbers and effort (follow up) that make the difference. There is no easy solution to a hard problem. As much as business and sales people here complain about customer being cheapskate, when it is their turn to hire pa and asking for advice on crm software they prefer cheap pa and free software.

I agree with lots of this.

Top sales people do not have higher closing ratio than average sales people facing the same quality pool of leads

But this is demonstrably false. As one example, telemarketing companies have top sales people, and that's just randomized smile and dial. They often have systems to identify and segregate their best sales people onto their best campaigns.

One big difference between the top sales people and the rest is confidence. Besides that there are many paths to becoming a top salesperson, and I think @Fox had excellent advice there.

Perhaps sales books haven't helped you, and I agree that sales books are totally written to make the author money, but I think I've only ever read 1 sales book where I didn't learn anything. I "always" glean some tidbit to sharpen my skill. For reference, I've read about 20 total, most of them 20+ years ago. Maybe today's sales books are garbage, or maybe you're reading the wrong authors, idk.

My point is let's not diminish the skill called "selling". It is a skill and it can be taught and learned and most importantly, practiced and improved.

 

[PapaGang]

The problem in this thread is that we're confused about what we're doing.

What are we doing here? Trying to be the freelancer that works harder and longer for cheaper—or maybe the savvy sales-oriented freelancer that convinces them to buy for $3,000 and then realizes that the client takes $5,000 worth of our time and energy, or are we trying to be the professional that attracts clients and referrals because we do great work and are committed to operational excellence?

If you are committed to providing more than $500 worth of value, then these people aren't your people. Move on.

Everyone gets confused by marketing and sales by aiming to convert everyone. That doesn't work. Forget it. You don't need everyone. You only need a few. You only need your people. MJ started a thread about this very thing and uses Oregano's as a case study about developing a Productocracy. The productocracy PULLS people to you. You don't need a different sales script. You just need trust from someone who gets what you are doing. Then the word gets out and the inbox starts to fill.

Commit to that, and surrender the compulsion to "be something for everyone," which is a myth, and you'll be okay. You will find more value in figuring out how to attract the clients you really want, who will appreciate your work and pay you more for it.

There is nothing to learn by trying to convert these people, except that if you cave and do the work for cheap (or even if you convince them to buy for $3,000, which is worse because they will expect more than 3k worth of work), you will learn the error of taking on a client like that. The riskiest thing you can do is make average stuff for average people and pitch it to the masses.

Of course, this is all your choice. Maybe taking on clients like this is really what you want. And if so, that's ok too. Because if you are entrepreneurial, maybe you sell it for $500 and pay some coder on Fiverr $200 to do it and keep the cream off the top. Either way, you have made a real decision on the future of your business and how it will look 5 years down the road.

Of course, I could be completely wrong here.
I do wish you the best of luck on building the business.

 

[maxkoss]

What's the difference between your $3000 website and the $500-$1000 they were thinking about?

You said the 3k website would bring them real results. What are those real results? How the website can bring these results?

"Make their work easier". How?

Thanks for your reply!

1. For me, the main difference between a $3000 website and a $500 one is the thinking process.
   For $3000 I'm going to try to build as much trust as possible with potential clients by thinking about their behavior and presenting the information in the right order and professional manner. So it would be very easy for them to take action after visiting the website.
   
   
2. 3. The results might be:
   — a clear picture of what they offer, how it works, and how to take action, so they can stop answering all these questions on the phone and email. (saving time and building trust)
   — they can stop manually tracking all the customers, schedule and transactions by implementing Online Booking on their website. (saving time and reducing workload and stress)
   — they can start competing with other businesses in their niche by having a properly built web presence (getting new clients)

 

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[Christopher104]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

I'm working to become a web developer one day and your execution inspires me. I like how you stood by your price and didn't backpaddle to their consumer thinking of "oh this is too expensive" as if they viewed buying a website like buying a car.

there's this YouTube video I watched where the coach describes two entrepreneur types:
1. the kind that plays to win (you)
2. the kind that plays not to lose (the medical office)

 

[Kevin88660]

I agree with lots of this.

But this is demonstrably false. As one example, telemarketing companies have top sales people, and that's just randomized smile and dial. They often have systems to identify and segregate their best sales people onto their best campaigns.

One big difference between the top sales people and the rest is confidence. Besides that there are many paths to becoming a top salesperson, and I think @Fox had excellent advice there.

Perhaps sales books haven't helped you, and I agree that sales books are totally written to make the author money, but I think I've only ever read 1 sales book where I didn't learn anything. I "always" glean some tidbit to sharpen my skill. For reference, I've read about 20 total, most of them 20+ years ago. Maybe today's sales books are garbage, or maybe you're reading the wrong authors, idk.

My point is let's not diminish the skill called "selling". It is a skill and it can be taught and learned and most importantly, practiced and improved.

It depends what you mean by selling. And I dont diminish the skill of selling.

To be more exact my take is any book or strategy that tells you they can boost your sales result through increasing the conversion ratio, targeted at the same quality of leads, without changing the original pitch/offer, is likely to be highly delusional in today’s competitive space where consumers are spoilt with choices. That’s why I think they belong to the category of “shortcut scams”.

Unless you are absolutely new in sales, you can only improve your communication, persuasion skill to a certain extend and changing the script, line, communication technique you use will not matter that much.

I think the biggest improvement in sales are strategies taken at a systematic level. If you cannot close a customer into buying a 3000 dollar worth of solution, the angle I am looking at is where do I meet more potential prospects to make the numbers so that the sales eventually happen because I will meet people who understand this and see the value, or I can build a leads generation system through closing a low commitment small deal, and slowly build the trust to closing a bigger deal next time. It just take more time, more numbers and more work and there is no easy solution to a difficult problem.

 

[Manfern]

Very long responses, I was tired reading it, just ask them 2 questions:
1 - Why they need website
2 - Why price range 500-1000
Than tell them what you can for do for 1000 and for 2000-3000, show examples and explain what they get after paying higher price for quality website.
If they have money - they will choose better option otherwise move on.

 

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[Nick Kadutskyi]

Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

That's a very interesting situation! Have you eventually closed the deal? If so, for how much and would it be possible for you to share your proposal that got closed?

From your message it's not clear why they need a website.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients.

So what? Do they understand why they need to list all their services and tell about them to their clients? If they don't do that does that really impact their business?

The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality.

Doesn't sound like a real problem to me. Maybe you could uncover how that struggle impacts their business?

Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services.

How crucial is that for them? If they don't do that what will happen in 1-5 years?

"Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range."

I think this is how they valued what you proposed to them or maybe HOW you proposed.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos).

This book is great! I listen to it time to time.
I think this book describes your exact situation in "Chapter 6. Preventing Objects", subchapter "Advantages and Objections"

Actual quote from the book:

“As you can see, the fundamental problem that’s causing the objection is that the seller offered a solution before building up the need. The buyer doesn’t feel that the problem has enough value to merit such an expensive solution. Consequently, when the seller gives the Advantage, the buyer raises an objection.”

Excerpt From: Neil Rackham. “SPIN Selling.” Apple Books.

Responses to your other posts:

The results might be:
— a clear picture of what they offer, how it works, and how to take action, so they can stop answering all these questions on the phone and email. (saving time and building trust)
— they can stop manually tracking all the customers, schedule and transactions by implementing Online Booking on their website. (saving time and reducing workload and stress)
— they can start competing with other businesses in their niche by having a properly built web presence (getting new clients)

It is still not clear why your prospect will value those results.

This is a very interesting question! I can not guarantee that they will save or earn more than $3000. But I'm pretty sure they will recoup their investment in the first week or two.

Definitely, giving guarantees will raise the price but it's still important to be sure that they value what they get more than $3000.

 

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[UnderdogStrategy]

It sounds like you did great, thanks for sharing your discovery conversation, it's insightful to see how you found out several needs throughout the talk.

Allow me some questions.

What's the difference between your $3000 website and the $500-$1000 they were thinking about?

You said the 3k website would bring them real results. What are those real results? How the website can bring these results?

"Make their work easier". How?

 

[maxkoss]

Welcome to the forum Max!

I don't know if you've been around here - if not read Andy Black and Fox posts.
I don't remember exactly but i think it was Andy who said that he
vets clients based on how they see him:as a value vs. as a cost (among other factors).

This client definitely sees you as the cost and he won't be a good fit.
Move on and be grateful that you don't have to work with him.

Thanks, Kid! I'll definitely check out on Andy Black!

 

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[josh_ting]

Hey check this video out, value based pricing

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RFk8ZmIDrFM

 

[Itizn]

I would probably move on.
You can try and follow up with them if they never get back to you.

However the fact they were a referral ontop of the effectiveness in which you demonstrated your value should suffice.