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I never knew how bad the system can screw someone until now

Real Deal Denver

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I have two scenarios that I have encountered that basically "change the rules" at the govt's whim, and screw people.

First, many years ago I wrote off a portion of my home expense to reflect the space I used as an office/business. It was a totally legit business and I paid a lot of taxes on that income. Then, when I go to sell my house, I find out that I have to RECLAIM those expenses. In other words, if I wrote off $8,000 a year for ten years - as a legit expense - then I have to regather all those deductions and claim them as income when I sell - so I get slaughtered on taxes. Wow. Give me a deduction - and then take it back. What shit head came up with this backstabbing plan?

The next one is even worse. Not financially, but in being so underhanded and dirty.

I have a couple of old credit card debts that are nearing their statute of limitations. This should mean that they will now die off from old age and go away. But no. I just discovered that an attorney can "get a court order for a revivor of the judgment." In other words - the statute of limitations runs out, but the attorney asks a judge to reset it all, so we start over again from the beginning! Why have a statute of limitations if it can be nullified? Why not just say - hell, we will pursue you as long as we want to. Could be ten years, twenty - who knows? Yeah - that statute thing - that's funny, isn't it. You actually fell for that one?

Another big one is someone losing their pension because the company changed hands somehow and they throw out all the rules that everyone had been playing by for - decades. I know several people that lost their pensions completely.

Who the hell do these people think they are? They make rules that everyone plays by, and then they revoke them cause they feel like it?

And don't get me started on how they tax the inheritance money that already had taxes paid on it. That money has been already "taxed" so keep your damn hands off of it.

And, for the icing on the cake - don't ever cooperate with police voluntarily. Do they just want to talk to you? You're a nice guy - you have nothing to hide. They lie. I was arrested once after I agreed to meet them and talk to them. Never again. I will talk all day - because I respect the law - but we're not doing it in person face to face. $600 and 12 hours later I was out of jail. But it should have never happened in the first place. They don't care - they get bonus points for arresting someone, and the bail people make a damn good income playing the game.

Hope these insights help someone. I never thought our great country could be so back-stabbing.
 

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First, many years ago I wrote off a portion of my home expense to reflect the space I used as an office/business. It was a totally legit business and I paid a lot of taxes on that income. Then, when I go to sell my house, I find out that I have to RECLAIM those expenses. In other words, if I wrote off $8,000 a year for ten years - as a legit expense - then I have to regather all those deductions and claim them as income when I sell - so I get slaughtered on taxes. Wow. Give me a deduction - and then take it back. What shit head came up with this backstabbing plan?
Oh dear...sorry for that tax mishap.

Doesn't make sense. How in the F*ck does deductions get attributed to house value subjected to capital gains...does not compute.

And, for the icing on the cake - don't ever cooperate with police voluntarily. Do they just want to talk to you? You're a nice guy - you have nothing to hide. They lie. I was arrested once after I agreed to meet them and talk to them. Never again. I will talk all day - because I respect the law - but we're not doing it in person face to face. $600 and 12 hours later I was out of jail. But it should have never happened in the first place. They don't care - they get bonus points for arresting someone, and the bail people make a damn good income playing the game.
What did the cops call you for?
Did you call your lawyer?
 

Real Deal Denver

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@Real Deal Denver cool. so what are you thankful for? (let's turn positive for a minute!)
My Dad has an extremely annoying saying. Whenever I asked him for advice about something he would not want to discuss it as he only likes to have very shallow conversations such as how is the weather?

His response was often "when you are handed lemons, make lemonade. Turn it around and make something positive from this!"

I no longer ask him for advice or his opinion on anything. Give me your phone number. I'm sure you and my Dad could talk for hours and hours and not get anything accomplished, but you would be happy!

I thank people like you and my Dad - really. Your useless contributions to conversations greatly serves to sharpen the resolve of people like me that are looking for answers. I owe my ability to see the big picture, analyze it, and focus on results, greatly to my Dad. With normal feedback, I am sure I'd be like so many of the dull slugs out there today - and not have the drive that I do have. Thanks for the years of frustration Dad! That's what I'm thankful for.

For everyone else, hopefully there are some lessons to be learned here. You have two choices on how to learn lessons. Learn it yourself, or learn it from someone else. The second option, being much easier, is usually the preferred method. So, you're welcome.
 

Real Deal Denver

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Oh dear...sorry for that tax mishap.

Doesn't make sense. How in the F*ck does deductions get attributed to house value subjected to capital gains...does not compute.


What did the cops call you for?
Did you call your lawyer?
I am hoping @CareCPA can chime in and answer the reclaimed office expense deductions.

On your other question...

The cops called me because my wife filed a restraining order on me. I did not know this at the time, and the cops would not do the decent thing and explain why they were calling - of course. They asked me if I knew why they were calling, and I said I suppose it was about the argument my wife and I had. They said that's right and they wanted to talk to me about it. Wrong. They wanted to arrest me. Being it was only an argument in which I never threatened her verbally or physically, I agreed to meet with them.

In her mind, she blew it way out of proportion and thought it could lead to me killing her. She loves watching those real crime shows that show how killers kill people, and how they are eventually caught - so that heavily influences her thinking. Amazingly enough, I am much more of a teddy bear and I refuse to watch those shows as they are too upsetting for me. We have long since worked things out - so everything is good.

Cops lie. And that one phone call you are allowed while in jail? Yeah - good luck with that. They take everything you own, so you can't use your cell phone with all its programmed numbers in it to call someone. You use their phone, which is programmed to have someone enter their visa number to pay a $15 charge to accept the phone call - then the call connects. They lie from the start and then make it as difficult as possible for you every step of the way. And of course they treat you like shit - because if you were NOT shit, you wouldn't be there in the first place. There's another lesson for you.

One more thing - be careful what you watch on the idiot tube - it does affect your thinking.
 

EVMaso

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And, for the icing on the cake - don't ever cooperate with police voluntarily. Do they just want to talk to you? You're a nice guy - you have nothing to hide. They lie. I was arrested once after I agreed to meet them and talk to them. Never again. I will talk all day - because I respect the law - but we're not doing it in person face to face. $600 and 12 hours later I was out of jail. But it should have never happened in the first place. They don't care - they get bonus points for arresting someone, and the bail people make a damn good income playing the game.

Hope these insights help someone. I never thought our great country could be so back-stabbing.
There was a video I watched years ago that really impressed upon me not to talk to the police, at least without some lawyer present.

Don't Talk to the Police
 
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ZCP

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As a Police Officer who casually browses this forum and struggles to find his way to a better life of freedom, I take some offense to what you say. I'm not going to sit here and defend the points you made or try to make excuses for the situations you went through that were unfavorable to you.

Police are always judged by a single moment, but make decisions based on hundreds, if not thousands, of interactions they have daily with some of the worst of society. It's mentally draining to deal daily with the problems of the world that 99.9% of the population don't realize even occur.

Let me give you an example of a day I worked recently:

1. A guy calls 911 because he thinks people are trying to kill him. Come to find out he's high on meth, he broke into someone's house and then jumped from a second story window. We help him and get him to the hospital.

2. A guy threatens to stab someone because "someone must die today." We arrive and find him sitting in his car with a kitchen knife up to his chest. We try to talk him out of the car, but he cuts himself and then drives away. A short chase later, we stop him, punch out the window, retrieve the knife, and get him down to the hospital. I ride down with the ambulance to make sure he goes down safely without any issues. We get there. No problem. However, since he is dealing with some mental health issues, he has to be watched one-on-one by a nurse. They wheel him over next to another guy so one nurse can watch them both at the same time. Guess who? The guy high on meth.
He's talking to himself and, out of nowhere, he rips the IV out of his arm and goes running down the hall through the hospital. 20 nurses and I are chasing him until he runs down a hall with a locked door. There was blood all over the floor, on the walls, on the medical equipment, etc.

3. Finally leave the hospital and get a call for a vehicle fire. No big deal - the Fire Dept. is en route. On our way we find out it's an attempted suicide. A guy wanted to kill himself and when sitting in a garage with a car running and the door down didn't work, he backed it up, slit his wrist, and lit his car on fire hoping the smoke and fire would kill him. We got him out safely and got him the help he needed.

What is everyone else doing while we are running around trying to save the world? Oh, you know...carelessly passing people in the center lane because they don't want to wait in stopped traffic, driving double the speed limit because they just want to get home, texting and driving distracted and crash into the car in front of them because they have to scroll Facebook for the 3 millionth time, etc. etc. etc. And when we are running around getting our asses handed to us we have to respond to that crash, we're expected to keep the roads safe, we're expected to put down everything we're doing so we can check on that dog that has been barking all day -- but, then again, "don't we have anything better to do than to harass the public?"

But "F the Police," right? Every damn day we can't catch a break having to deal with the dangers of society, having your own administration trying to make your life harder, people who lie to you (yes, nobody really tells the truth to the Police), Attorneys who want to fight your every decision, Judges who may not see things your way, and case law that makes your job harder to do -- just to name a few.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you the system is perfect. It's definitely not. I'm also not going to sit here and tell you that I believe in everything I do. I definitely don't.

But, what I am going to sit here and tell you is that we are people too. And those people are members of this forum. Those people work a 12 hour day and just want to find some peace in the world, but then have to read about how terrible the police are and make the police out to be the enemy. Police are not the enemy. Police are people who took an oath to serve and protect their communities. Police are people who put on a uniform everyday and try to make YOUR world a better place and rarely ever get thanked in return, but are expected to always put on their happy face. Police are people who have families just like you, who joined the military so you wouldn't have to, with college educations and diverse backgrounds, with hobbies and interests, and dreams of a better life.

Police are not the enemy so please stop treating them like one.
 
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minivanman

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Police are not the enemy so please stop treating them like one.
While I am a huge backer of the blue.... it depends which police person you are talking about. I've seen good ones, I've seen middle of the line ones and I've seen bad ones. It is one of the toughest jobs there is but you never know which one you are going to get..... I rarely associate with them but we did call them for loud motorcycles at 1am going up and down the street. At first she started being a dick because we were complaining (it happened every Sunday night for a few months before we complained but I do know several others had complained).... until I turned in to a bigger dick. Once I started being a dick, she changed her tune. By the way.... when I'm a dick.... I am a HUGE dick, police or not. On the bright side, we haven't had the motorcycle problem since. :)
 

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Real Deal Denver

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As a Police Officer who casually browses this forum and struggles to find his way to a better life of freedom, I take some offense to what you say. I'm not going to sit here and defend the points you made or try to make excuses for the situations you went through that were unfavorable to you.

Police are always judged by a single moment, but make decisions based on hundreds, if not thousands, of interactions they have daily with some of the worst of society. It's mentally draining to deal daily with the problems of the world that 99.9% of the population don't realize even occur.

Let me give you an example of a day I worked recently:

1. A guy calls 911 because he thinks people are trying to kill him. Come to find out he's high on meth, he broke into someone's house and then jumped from a second story window. We help him and get him to the hospital.

2. A guy threatens to stab someone because "someone must die today." We arrive and find him sitting in his car with a kitchen knife up to his chest. We try to talk him out of the car, but he cuts himself and then drives away. A short chase later, we stop him, punch out the window, retrieve the knife, and get him down to the hospital. I ride down with the ambulance to make sure he goes down safely without any issues. We get there. No problem. However, since he is dealing with some mental health issues, he has to be watched one-on-one by a nurse. They wheel him over next to another guy so one nurse can watch them both at the same time. Guess who? The guy high on meth.
He's talking to himself and, out of nowhere, he rips the IV out of his arm and goes running down the hall through the hospital. 20 nurses and I are chasing him until he runs down a hall with a locked door. There was blood all over the floor, on the walls, on the medical equipment, etc.

3. Finally leave the hospital and get a call for a vehicle fire. No big deal - the Fire Dept. is en route. On our way we find out it's an attempted suicide. A guy wanted to kill himself and when sitting in a garage with a car running and the door down didn't work, he backed it up, slit his wrist, and lit his car on fire hoping the smoke and fire would kill him. We got him out safely and got him the help he needed.

What is everyone else doing while we are running around trying to save the world? Oh, you know...carelessly passing people in the center lane because they don't want to wait in stopped traffic, driving double the speed limit because they just want to get home, texting and driving distracted and crash into the car in front of them because they have to scroll Facebook for the 3 millionth time, etc. etc. etc. And when we are running around getting our asses handed to us we have to respond to that crash, we're expected to keep the roads safe, we're expected to put down everything we're doing so we can check on that dog that has been barking all day -- but, then again, "don't we have anything better to do than to harass the public?"

But "F the Police," right? Every damn day we can't catch a break having to deal with the dangers of society, having your own administration trying to make your life harder, people who lie to you (yes, nobody really tells the truth to the Police), Attorneys who want to fight your every decision, Judges who may not see things your way, and case law that makes your job harder to do -- just to name a few.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you the system is perfect. It's definitely not. I'm also not going to sit here and tell you that I believe in everything I do. I definitely don't.

But, what I am going to sit here and tell you is that we are people too. And those people are members of this forum. Those people work a 12 hour day and just want to find some peace in the world, but then have to read about how terrible the police are and make the police out to be the enemy. Police are not the enemy. Police are people who took an oath to serve and protect their communities. Police are people who put on a uniform everyday and try to make YOUR world a better place and rarely ever get thanked in return, but are expected to always put on their happy face. Police are people who have families just like you, who joined the military so you wouldn't have to, with college educations and diverse backgrounds, with hobbies and interests, and dreams of a better life.

Police are not the enemy so please stop treating them like one.
I get all of that. Really. As a former cub scout, boy scout, military guy - you won't find a straighter shooter than me.

With that said, here is the "rest of the story."

When I was arrested, I met the police at a Burger King. After they told me I would be handcuffed and taken to jail, I asked what I was supposed to do with my car? Could I drive it home at least? No. But I could call my brother so he could come pick it up - which I did, and I told my brother that I would leave the keys with the manager here. Fine. Thanks for your help police. AFTER I hung up, they said I couldn't leave the keys with the manager as that was not a secure way to guard the keys. I said, "didn't you just hear me explain the plan, and you're now telling me that I can't do that?" They said that's not their problem. So I didn't leave the keys there - which totally screwed up the plan when my brother arrived. I think he had to come to the jail to get the keys. Luckily he figured this out on his own because the cops would not allow me to make another call to him to explain how things had now changed.

After I was released from jail, I had the restraining order to deal with. Being self-employed, all my records and my computer were in the house I was not allowed into.

So I call the police to ask how to handle this. I even went there in person. This was important as I was behind schedule and every hour was valuable.

If I remember, it took four visits/calls to FINALLY get an answer on how to handle that - which spanned three days. The answer was that I could set an appointment to remove what I needed, which an officer was there to make sure I didn't kill my wife. Point #1 - if I was going to kill my wife, I sure didn't have to go through all that trouble. Time wasting rule that is totally ineffective. Being I wasn't going to kill anyone, all this accomplished was wasting a lot of my time (days) for nothing.

Point #2 - after I had my computer and files so I could WORK - I called the police again to ask them why someone not only did NOT tell me how the system worked but actually AVOIDED helping me in any way when I asked point blank direct questions. What the F is wrong with cops? Take me out back and shoot me, right? I'm scum, right? Their answer was, "gee, I don't know." Well, while they "forgot" those minor details, I was frantically trying to buy time so I would not lose several valuable customers. Talk about F*cking up my life for no reason. It turns out my case was a lot of misunderstanding, and it was revealed that I was actually a nice guy after it was all said and done. But until proven innocent - I was guilty as hell by the cops, and especially the jailers.

While I was in jail, oh no - don't want me to sleep and get any rest. I didn't sleep. I was leaning back with my eyes closed when a cop just HAD TO push the bar mechanism that opens the door to my cell. Have you ever heard how loud that is in a movie, and how it echoes? Well, it's louder than that. I jumped and opened my eyes to see a cop at the door peering through my window at me with a "wish you were dead you piece of shit" look on *her* (yes, her) face. Congrats bitch - too bad I couldn't ruin your game and tell you that I wasn't sleeping anyway. So that little tit for tat made her day. Goody for her.

While I was in the "office" at a desk waiting to make a phone call, a HANDCUFFED big black guy that was totally no threat to anyone was being brought in by three cops. He was stumbling along, but not resisting arrest. He was not happy - he was mad - but he wasn't causing any problems. I guess he should have been walking better because he got pepper sprayed in the face for not "cooperating" enough. If you've never seen what pepper spray does in someone's face, you are really missing something. Screaming - coughing - gagging. It's not a "little unpleasant" - it's brutal. I wonder how he feels about cops today? Does anyone care? I do. I relayed that story to several black guys later to see how they would react - and they all said they had all been treated like shit by the police.

What an education I have had. I would like you to pass this on to your lieutenant commander, or whatever they call themselves. Police many times deserve the disrespect they get. And, of course, that makes it bad for all police. I have no sympathy for them, as I once did. They failed me at every turn. On purpose. They even enjoyed it. So, no, it wasn't judging cops by "one incident." Not by a long shot.

I truly wonder how many cops actually like tormenting people. And then they wonder why people react to them the way they do.

I've never seen any profession that has SO much room for improvement. And my experience is one tiny encounter. I don't even want to think about the big picture.
 
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lowtek

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I dunno dude, you're not painting yourself in a very positive light.

A restraining order from your wife ... complaining about what seems like a legitimate debt you don't want to pay... lashing out at zcp who was just trying to help lighten the mood...

I can grant the tax code is stupid, but the rest of the rant isn't a very good look for you.
 

Real Deal Denver

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I dunno dude, you're not painting yourself in a very positive light.

A restraining order from your wife ... complaining about what seems like a legitimate debt you don't want to pay... lashing out at zcp who was just trying to help lighten the mood...

I can grant the tax code is stupid, but the rest of the rant isn't a very good look for you.
Let's go back to the beginning. Accounting and statute of limitations fraud. Wish I had known about these sooner. That's the point of this. Trying to help.

I tell the truth. If that paints me bad, so what. I am who I am. Gave up trying to be something I'm not a long time ago - and so do the people I hang with. So we're all happy.

Not trying to impress anyone. As far as the bill - yeah, the recession wiped me out. Blame me for that if you want to. Another screw job. I get screwed so often I'm starting to LIKE it! I am thinking of bankruptcy JUST to shove it so far up their... Let's play this game then. I'm catching on quick.
 

Xavier X

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The next one is even worse. Not financially, but in being so underhanded and dirty.
Wait, so you tried to use the statute of limitation to evade your financial responsibilities, and are now mad because they found a way to make you pay?

I get it being "underhanded," but the way I see it, both parties here attempted some level of underhandedness. However, only one came out on top.
 

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First, many years ago I wrote off a portion of my home expense to reflect the space I used as an office/business. It was a totally legit business and I paid a lot of taxes on that income. Then, when I go to sell my house, I find out that I have to RECLAIM those expenses. In other words, if I wrote off $8,000 a year for ten years - as a legit expense - then I have to regather all those deductions and claim them as income when I sell - so I get slaughtered on taxes. Wow. Give me a deduction - and then take it back. What shit head came up with this backstabbing plan?
First, it's your responsibility as a business owner to understand how taxes work and how they affect you and your business. None of this information has been hidden from you.

Second, you don't have to recapture all our home office deductions; you simply have to recapture the depreciation portion of the deduction. This is NO DIFFERENT than if you actually owned commercial real estate that you used for your business -- you'd depreciate it over 39 years and then recapture that depreciation when you sell. You're simply incurring the exact same tax that all business owners pay on the real estate they own and use for their business.

That said, that recapture simply lowers the basis of your property, and you still have access to a $250,000 or $500,000 exclusion from capital gains, so you likely aren't paying anything when you sell, unless you made a significant profit on your house.

All that said, I'm not a tax professional, so don't trust a thing I've written.

The next one is even worse. Not financially, but in being so underhanded and dirty.

I have a couple of old credit card debts that are nearing their statute of limitations. This should mean that they will now die off from old age and go away. But no. I just discovered that an attorney can "get a court order for a revivor of the judgment." In other words - the statute of limitations runs out, but the attorney asks a judge to reset it all, so we start over again from the beginning! Why have a statute of limitations if it can be nullified? Why not just say - hell, we will pursue you as long as we want to. Could be ten years, twenty - who knows? Yeah - that statute thing - that's funny, isn't it. You actually fell for that one?
I agree...that's horrendous. But, not for the reason you state. It's horrendous that you borrowed money and are upset that the loophole that you were attempting to use to NOT REPAY the money didn't work out for you.

Be ethical and adhere to your obligations and this wouldn't be an issue.
 

Real Deal Denver

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If by "system" you mean our government, institutions and legal system then I can see what you mean.

No system is perfect. Because People are not perfect. The people that run our government and institutions sometime lack awareness and ethics and it's expected. It's not easy. Ignorance will infiltrate every part of our society.

We do live in a psychologically violent society and it's common everywhere else in the world as well.

It's normal to be mediocre and respond to the world like everyone else.

We are here at the forum because we don't wanna be like everyone else.

Rather than reacting to what happens to us, how can we learn, understand and act proactively towards our unperfected system and society?
 

Real Deal Denver

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Allll righty then. I see this has turned into a psychoanalysis discussion of right and wrong, and what should be done, regardless of the circumstances.

So let me give you some examples just for giggles. Maybe this may make the point that seems to have been missed.

I know the ticket for speeding was $120. However, we decided that we are not going to abide by the rules that we ourselves established, and therefore we are charging you $400 instead.

I know you plea bargained and served 12 years, but looking back, we just don't' feel that is enough. We are restarting the sentence over again, from the beginning. You will now serve 12 more years.

I know the statute of limitations to collect on your old debt is 6 years, but we are reviving it, so it starts all over again - from the beginning - for another 6 years. And, by the way, at the end of the next six years, we may decide to do it all over again - just because we can.

I know you have worked for this company for 23 years, and it's really a shame that you transferred to a department that is being outsourced overseas. We can't help that. Sorry - but you won't get your pension as you planned, because it says right there in the rules that you have to work a minimum of 25 years.

I know you retired with a pension, but now that the company has been bought out, all those former obligations are rescinded because the old company simply does not exist any longer.

I know we took every cent to your name. That is because we have a judgment against you, and because you are self-employed we can take everything we can get our hands on. I'm sorry it doesn't work the way it does with employed people that can have only garnish up to 20% of their wages. I'm sorry you have no money for food. You'll manage.

I'm sorry you lost everything you ever owned in the flood when the levees broke. Insurance does not cover floods. You have to get a special Federal policy for that. Yes, you will still have to pay off that $200,000 mortgage, as you promised you would. Your word is your word.

I think that's enough.

I don't care what the rules are. Just stick to them once they are made. Keep YOUR word. And when I complain that all of a sudden the statute of limitations is just - restarted? - for giggles - don't blame me for being upset. I didn't make the rules. I didn't get wiped out through my own doing. And I am not the one who decided that, well, we're not going to play by the rules that we ourselves so carefully created. Nope, the rule is that there are no rules - if we decide that. Just because we can. Nah Nah Nah.

There's a word for people like that. Liars. And if our government is based on LIES, then we have a very serious problem on our hands. This should upset everyone reading this. All of these things have happened to people that I know (except the prison example, which is included for dramatic effect).
 

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I have a sad story about the "system" screwing someone. Let's just say this guy was a relative of a close friend. This guy had a union job, nice pay, good life, wife and a kid.

One day he loses his job in the 2008-2009 recession. Tough times. Then his wife leaves him. Gets the house and the kid of course. He ends up having to move back into his parent's basement (unironically) and worked as a pizza delivery driver.

Then he got a gun and shot himself. Yikes!

While it is tragic and suicide is never the answer, not everything is so black and white. My friend even said (paraphrasing), "My family was so mad. How could he do this to us!? I mean this guy lost everything. Everything he built over his whole life. I loved him as a family member and didn't want him to die but, I understand his motivation. Things weren't just going to get better for him."

Sometimes the self-guru/self-improvement crowd can be a nauseating bunch. Oh yes, he should have just gotten another job, learned to code, gotten fit, became an internet marketer guru making millions and moved on with his life. Right. I'll put that in the shitthatwillneverhappen folder. Again, I'm not glorifying suicide, it's always wrong. But when everything is taken from you, I get it.
 

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I know the statute of limitations to collect on your old debt is 6 years, but we are reviving it, so it starts all over again - from the beginning - for another 6 years. And, by the way, at the end of the next six years, we may decide to do it all over again - just because we can.
I already posted above about how you didn't understand the tax laws regarding depreciation recapture on a home office.

Well, it appears you also don't understand the laws around debt collection statute of limitations. Allow me to provide some context (though note I'm not an attorney, so feel free to verify with one)...

In most/all states, there is a statute of limitations on how long after a debt is unpaid that the lender can take legal action against the debtor in attempt to try to collect. Once that legal action is completed, if the lender gets a judgement to collect, there will be a time limit for which that judgement can be enforced before it expires. BUT, judgements can be renewed prior to expiration, and that renewal can be completed as many times as necessary until the debt is collected or the entity entitled to the judgement gives up.

I'm guessing that the lender in your situation got a judgement within the statute of limitations for your state, and what you're talking about when you say "statute of limitations" is actually the time period the state provides before the judgement expires. But, as I said above, most/all states have a procedure for renewing the judgement, so that's NOT a statute of limitations.

You're complaining that the statute of limitations for collecting is past, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the case. More likely, you just don't understand the process for getting a judgement and collecting on it, nor do you understand the laws of your state.

Now, if you're saying that the lender never filed in court before the statute of limitations was up, and now is trying to do so after the statute of limitations is up, I find that hard to believe. I don't imagine a credit card company would try to do that (it would be a waste of time/money), and if they did, I imagine the judge would throw it out.

So, I'm guessing you're mistaken. Now, if you're not mistaken and that IS what happened, it shouldn't be difficult to get the collection action thrown out. Go talk to an attorney if you believe that's what happened.

But again, I seriously doubt that's the case.
 

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Ever since the 2008(or 2010?) trillions of dollars bank bailout, i have been greatly disillusioned by the system.

If i was one of those 60+ age retiring career workers who lost their entire life savings while the bankers received their million dollar bonuses anyway, and i didn't have a wife and kids or something strong to anchor me to this world, i could see myself going on a murder suicide bankster spree lol

Even so, i had nice government funded part time tutoring job that paid 15 an hour and the whole program got canceled due to the government hitting the debt ceiling.
Those congressmen didn't cut their own mid 6 figure salaries though.

The system takes cares of those in power first and with excess, and everyone else comes later.
 

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I see I got bat-signaled in, so I'll pop in long enough to say:
Depreciation recapture is real, just like for any other asset that gets depreciated. I would be surprised if you could allocate your Section 121 exclusion to it. It's not something we do every day, so I would have to research it.

I'm not touching the rest of this thread.
 

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I already posted above about how you didn't understand the tax laws regarding depreciation recapture on a home office.

Well, it appears you also don't understand the laws around debt collection statute of limitations. Allow me to provide some context (though note I'm not an attorney, so feel free to verify with one)...

In most/all states, there is a statute of limitations on how long after a debt is unpaid that the lender can take legal action against the debtor in attempt to try to collect. Once that legal action is completed, if the lender gets a judgement to collect, there will be a time limit for which that judgement can be enforced before it expires. BUT, judgements can be renewed prior to expiration, and that renewal can be completed as many times as necessary until the debt is collected or the entity entitled to the judgement gives up.

I'm guessing that the lender in your situation got a judgement within the statute of limitations for your state, and what you're talking about when you say "statute of limitations" is actually the time period the state provides before the judgement expires. But, as I said above, most/all states have a procedure for renewing the judgement, so that's NOT a statute of limitations.

You're complaining that the statute of limitations for collecting is past, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the case. More likely, you just don't understand the process for getting a judgement and collecting on it, nor do you understand the laws of your state.

Now, if you're saying that the lender never filed in court before the statute of limitations was up, and now is trying to do so after the statute of limitations is up, I find that hard to believe. I don't imagine a credit card company would try to do that (it would be a waste of time/money), and if they did, I imagine the judge would throw it out.

So, I'm guessing you're mistaken. Now, if you're not mistaken and that IS what happened, it shouldn't be difficult to get the collection action thrown out. Go talk to an attorney if you believe that's what happened.

But again, I seriously doubt that's the case.
You are right. I didn't want to spell out the details step by step.

In reality, there first is the statute of limitations for the outright life of the debt. My point is that the statute of limitations has DEFINED limits; whichever statute it is we are referring to. But in reality, it doesn't have LIMITS because it can just be revived over and over again. There are NO actual limits, no matter what anyone says. I think that's pretty clear now - and I think it's a stinking outright lie - as my earlier examples tried to portray in real-world understandable situations.

Maybe it's just me, but I have a problem with lying back-stabbing rules that say one thing and do another.

As you stated, when a suit is filed, another statute of limitations begins. Fine. Let it go through two cycles of limitations then. But - ARE YOU LISTENING? - it doesn't die. Filing to revive it can be done multiple times. Just quit the damn lies - this thing can go on for decades. That's my point. This is one more shroud of deception foisted on us by our government that only the insider lawyers and credit card companies know about. Well, now a lot more know how the game is really played, which is the whole purpose of my post.

Thanks for the extra input though because now we have the complete picture. As you can see, your detailed explanation was somewhat wordy and complicated, which is why I summarized things.
 
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I see I got bat-signaled in, so I'll pop in long enough to say:
Depreciation recapture is real, just like for any other asset that gets depreciated. I would be surprised if you could allocate your Section 121 exclusion to it. It's not something we do every day, so I would have to research it.

I'm not touching the rest of this thread.
I will have to study this in detail. Here are two situations, which every accountant thinks every business person understands. I don't. And since I don't know what I don't know, I have not asked about it.

Situation 1;
A company sells a company vehicle after eight years because it has been fully depreciated. The company has written off, as an expense, 1/8th of the value of the vehicle every year, and now it is worth nothing, as far as accounting is concerned. That's logical and understood.

Situation 2;
My company writes of 1/10th of the value of my home each year, for ten years. This represents the 1/10th of my home that I use for business. Let's say, for easy math, that is $10,000 a year to write off as a business expense. On the 11th year, I sell the house. Now on my taxes, I have to "recapture the depreciation" that was earlier written off. So now I have $100,000 of value added to my business income for that year.

If I am wrong about this, please chime in. I don't know the details, and I don't want to study it. That's why I pay my accountant. If I am right, then the home write off is not a write off at all - it only serves to set aside a portion of my tax bill, which will be recaptured and paid at a later date. And when that date comes, it will have accumulated to a very large figure indeed.

I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that's what I encountered.

Of course, you can't say an eight-year-old vehicle compares to a new vehicle. But with office space, that appears to be exactly what they're saying.

It's hard enough running a business without being an expert on accounting and law. Sure, I should have learned this along the way - but my hired experts didn't think it was important, or they thought I knew it, I guess. So I learned about it when it hit the fan. And THAT is why that is posted here, as well. This has been an educational moment.
 
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Now on my taxes, I have to "recapture the depreciation" that was earlier written off. So now I have $100,000 of value added to my business income for that year.
Depending on sales price, amount of gain, etc, yes, most likely.
The term you're looking for is "unrecaptured 1250 gain" - here is a brief primer Unrecaptured Section 1250 Gain

The silver lining is the unrecpatured 1250 gain is limited to a max 25% tax rate (and gain beyond the unrecpatured gain is treated exactly the same as any other long term). So if you were taking depreciation deductions in a 35% bracket, and then unrecaptured gain is taxed at 25%, you still come out ahead.

The other presumption is that if you're selling the property, you have cash in hand to pay the tax bill (and hopefully you are having discussions with your accountant before you make big financial decisions anyway, where this would most likely come up).
 

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As you stated, when a suit is filed, another statute of limitations begins. Fine. Let it go through two cycles of limitations then. But - ARE YOU LISTENING? - it doesn't die. Filing to revive it can be done multiple times. Just quit the damn lies - this thing can go on for decades. That's my point. This is one more shroud of deception foisted on us by our government that only the insider lawyers and credit card companies know about. Well, now a lot more know how the game is really played, which is the whole purpose of my post.
There is only ONE statute of limitations when it comes to debt. And that's the statute of limitations on when the lender must file for court intervention. This statute of limitations is defined by each state, and it CANNOT be extended.

What you're talking about is when a court issues a judgement and that judgement has an expiration period. THIS IS NOT A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS. While you can call it that, your using those words doesn't make it so. This is simply the default period under which a collections judgement is valid UNLESS IT'S RENEWED.

In other words, the law provides for the renewal of the judgement AS MANY TIMES AS THE JUDGEMENT HOLDER CHOOSES TO RENEW.

You seem to think that renewing the judgement is breaking some law. But, it's not. It's completely within the law.

You are just upset that the law doesn't provide you a way of screwing over the company that extended you credit and that you refused to repay. Sorry dude, but if you want sympathy that the state won't help you to not repay your debts, you're not going to get it here.

Take some responsibility for your decisions and stop blaming other people for your mistakes.
 

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Situation 1;
A company sells a company vehicle after eight years because it has been fully depreciated. The company has written off, as an expense, 1/8th of the value of the vehicle every year, and now it is worth nothing, as far as accounting is concerned. That's logical and understood.
You are misunderstanding how depreciation (and recapture) works here. In your scenario above, the vehicle has been fully depreciated, so the cost basis (for taxes) is $0. If you sell that vehicle for more than $0, you must recapture depreciation up to the sale price -- and you will pay tax on that delta between the cost basis the gain.

This is absolutely no different than your Situation 2 below.

Situation 2;
My company writes of 1/10th of the value of my home each year, for ten years. This represents the 1/10th of my home that I use for business. Let's say, for easy math, that is $10,000 a year to write off as a business expense. On the 11th year, I sell the house. Now on my taxes, I have to "recapture the depreciation" that was earlier written off. So now I have $100,000 of value added to my business income for that year.

If I am wrong about this, please chime in.
You are wrong about this being different than Scenario 1 above. They are exactly the same.

I don't know the details, and I don't want to study it. That's why I pay my accountant.
Sounds like you're not studying it AND you're not getting what you're paying for from your accountant.

It's your responsibility to either understand this or do some due diligence to ensure that you hire someone who does. Just because you don't want to put in the work doesn't absolve you from the ramifications of not understanding it. I don't like to study tax rules either, but I do it so that I have control over my financial life.

If I am right, then the home write off is not a write off at all - it only serves to set aside a portion of my tax bill, which will be recaptured and paid at a later date. And when that date comes, it will have accumulated to a very large figure indeed.

I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that's what I encountered.
It *is* a write-off, and it has several benefits:

1. You often pay recapture at a lower rate than the tax benefit it provides, thereby offering you a permanent savings;

2. You have access to the tax benefits today and don't have to repay until tomorrow. Given time value of money, this provides you free money;

3. Depreciation *only* needs to be recaptured if the the sale price is higher than the cost basis, which is reduced by the depreciation.

All that said, if you really can't handle paying depreciation recapture, all you have to do is take the tax savings you get each year from depreciation, stick it in a savings account, and then use it to pay recapture later. Given the benefits above, you'll likely find that the money in the savings account will cover the recapture *plus* leave left-over that is pure profit.

The IRS is giving you a credit for the deterioration of capital items -- all they ask for in return is that you pay tax if the credit they've given you exceeds the actual deterioration of that item.

Of course, you can't say an eight-year-old vehicle compares to a new vehicle. But with office space, that appears to be exactly what they're saying.
Nope. Again, the two Scenarios are exactly the same. The only difference is that your vehicle will tend to go down in value while your home will tend to go up in value. But, from a tax perspective and from a depreciation recapture perspective, they are EXACTLY THE SAME.
 

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I would be surprised if you could allocate your Section 121 exclusion to it. It's not something we do every day, so I would have to research it.
According to this, in most cases, you can't use your 121 exclusion to avoid recapture:


"If you used the regular method to calculate your home office deduction, you must recapture, or pay back, all the depreciation you were entitled to take on your property (generally at a 25 percent rate), when you sell your house. This applies whether you actually expensed the depreciation or not. Depreciation deductions (which apply to only business – not personal – property) decrease your property’s basis, so that, when you sell your residence, it results in a greater gain. This gain, attributable to your depreciation deductions, is not excludable under IRC section 121, discussed below. On the other hand, if you used the simple method, there would be no depreciation deduction, no change in your house’s basis, and no recapture of depreciation on the sale of your residence."
 

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According to this, in most cases, you can't use your 121 exclusion to avoid recapture:


"If you used the regular method to calculate your home office deduction, you must recapture, or pay back, all the depreciation you were entitled to take on your property (generally at a 25 percent rate), when you sell your house. This applies whether you actually expensed the depreciation or not. Depreciation deductions (which apply to only business – not personal – property) decrease your property’s basis, so that, when you sell your residence, it results in a greater gain. This gain, attributable to your depreciation deductions, is not excludable under IRC section 121, discussed below. On the other hand, if you used the simple method, there would be no depreciation deduction, no change in your house’s basis, and no recapture of depreciation on the sale of your residence."
Yes, this was what my memory was telling me (but my memory lies sometimes).
Given the earlier responses, I wasn't inclined to spend a lot of time double-checking my memories.
 

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Can someone explain the difference between a home office deduction and home office depreciation?

Are we talking about the same thing here?
 

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Can someone explain the difference between a home office deduction and home office depreciation?

Are we talking about the same thing here?
Again, not a tax professional, but I'll take a shot...

Home Office deductions are for EXPENSES related to the portion of your personal residence that apply to the home office. For example, let's say your home office accounts for 10% of the total square footage of your personal residence. You can then claim 10% of the cost of a cleaning service, as 10% of that cost went towards keeping your home office clean. Likewise with utility costs, landscaping costs, etc.

Depreciation relates to the deterioration of capital items or real property. For example, if you buy a rental property, the IRS assumes the building part of the property (not the land) will deteriorate over some period of time, and they'll give a tax credit for that (depreciation). For residential, they assume the total deterioration period is 27.5 years, so you get 1/27.5 of the building value in depreciation each year for 27.5 years. For commercial property, it's 39 years.

So, for a home office, depreciation would refer to the tax credit on the deterioration of the portion of real property allocated to your home office. Again, if it's 10% of your personal residence, you'd get a depreciation write-off of 10% of the total building value over 39 years (which would be 1/39 of 10% of the building value every year).

For example, if you purchased a house for $500,000 and you assume the building value is $390,000 (land value $110,000), you'd get a depreciation write off for your home office of 10% of 1/39 of the $390,000 building value each year. Or $1000 in depreciation write off per year.

The EXPENSES deduction is not subject to recapture, so you wouldn't have to pay tax on the expense deductions you took when you sell the property. But, the depreciation IS subject to recapture. So, let's say you sell the property after 10 years of taking that depreciation (total depreciation write-off of $10,000), and let's say you sell the property for at least $10,000 over your cost basis -- you'll be subject to recapture tax on that $10,000 depreciation you had accumulated over the years. If you're in the 25% marginal tax bracket or above, you'd pay 25% of $10,000 ($2500) in depreciation recapture when you sell after 10 years.

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you take home office deductions, you are required to take home office depreciation as well according to the IRS. In other words, even if you don't take it, you'll still be subject to recapture tax when you sell.

IMPORTANT NOTE #2: There's another way to claim home office deduction -- for small offices up to 300 sf, you can claim $5/sf per year in home office deduction (assuming you have a space that qualifies for it). If you do it this method, you don't have to claim depreciation and you don't have to recapture it when you sell.

Lastly, a final reminder that I'm not a tax professional...so ignore everything I've said above... :)
 

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Again, not a tax professional, but I'll take a shot...

Home Office deductions are for EXPENSES related to the portion of your personal residence that apply to the home office. For example, let's say your home office accounts for 10% of the total square footage of your personal residence. You can then claim 10% of the cost of a cleaning service, as 10% of that cost went towards keeping your home office clean. Likewise with utility costs, landscaping costs, etc.

Depreciation relates to the deterioration of capital items or real property. For example, if you buy a rental property, the IRS assumes the building part of the property (not the land) will deteriorate over some period of time, and they'll give a tax credit for that (depreciation). For residential, they assume the total deterioration period is 27.5 years, so you get 1/27.5 of the building value in depreciation each year for 27.5 years. For commercial property, it's 39 years.

So, for a home office, depreciation would refer to the tax credit on the deterioration of the portion of real property allocated to your home office. Again, if it's 10% of your personal residence, you'd get a depreciation write-off of 10% of the total building value over 39 years (which would be 1/39 of 10% of the building value every year).

For example, if you purchased a house for $500,000 and you assume the building value is $390,000 (land value $110,000), you'd get a depreciation write off for your home office of 10% of 1/39 of the $390,000 building value each year. Or $1000 in depreciation write off per year.

The EXPENSES deduction is not subject to recapture, so you wouldn't have to pay tax on the expense deductions you took when you sell the property. But, the depreciation IS subject to recapture. So, let's say you sell the property after 10 years of taking that depreciation (total depreciation write-off of $10,000), and let's say you sell the property for at least $10,000 over your cost basis -- you'll be subject to recapture tax on that $10,000 depreciation you had accumulated over the years. If you're in the 25% marginal tax bracket or above, you'd pay 25% of $10,000 ($2500) in depreciation recapture when you sell after 10 years.

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you take home office deductions, you are required to take home office depreciation as well according to the IRS. In other words, even if you don't take it, you'll still be subject to recapture tax when you sell.

IMPORTANT NOTE #2: There's another way to claim home office deduction -- for small offices up to 300 sf, you can claim $5/sf per year in home office deduction (assuming you have a space that qualifies for it). If you do it this method, you don't have to claim depreciation and you don't have to recapture it when you sell.

Lastly, a final reminder that I'm not a tax professional...so ignore everything I've said above... :)
Yea, the short version is:
Home office depreciation is a portion of your home office deduction. If you use actual expenses, depreciation is one of several expenses (along with utilities, allocated taxes and insurance, etc).
If you use the Simplified method, no depreciation needs to be calculated or recaptured, as @JScott noted above.
 

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Yea, the short version is:
Home office depreciation is a portion of your home office deduction. If you use actual expenses, depreciation is one of several expenses (along with utilities, allocated taxes and insurance, etc).
If you use the Simplified method, no depreciation needs to be calculated or recaptured, as @JScott noted above.
So...

If you rent the house for $3000/mo and use 10% as office you can use $300/mo as a home office expense.

If you purchase the home, you can depreciate 1/39 a year but not use it as an expense deduction.

Trying to figure out if it’s better to rent the home or buy in this case assuming same utilities and other expenses etc... is being expensed in both scenarios.
 

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If you rent the house for $3000/mo and use 10% as office you can use $300/mo as a home office expense.
Yup.

If you purchase the home, you can depreciate 1/39 a year but not use it as an expense deduction.
Depreciation is pretty much the same as any other expense deduction, but it needs to be recaptured. And yes, 1/39 per year OF THE PERCENTAGE USED BY THE OFFICE.

Trying to figure out if it’s better to rent the home or buy in this case assuming same utilities and other expenses etc... is being expensed in both scenarios.
I certainly wouldn't make a buy/rent decision solely on home office deductions. The amount you'll save just isn't enough to make a major factor (unless your situation is much different than most).

Also note that there are very specific IRS rules around what constitutes a home office. My tax adviser suggests that if you claim more than 15% of the total square footage, you're setting yourself up for an audit risk.
 

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Yup.



Depreciation is pretty much the same as any other expense deduction, but it needs to be recaptured. And yes, 1/39 per year OF THE PERCENTAGE USED BY THE OFFICE.



I certainly wouldn't make a buy/rent decision solely on home office deductions. The amount you'll save just isn't enough to make a major factor (unless your situation is much different than most).

Also note that there are very specific IRS rules around what constitutes a home office. My tax adviser suggests that if you claim more than 15% of the total square footage, you're setting yourself up for an audit risk.
This is great, I don't have to answer tax questions anymore :)

Just to reiterate, I would be surprised if this one specific deduction swung the scales for you on whether to rent or buy.
 

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You are misunderstanding how depreciation (and recapture) works here. In your scenario above, the vehicle has been fully depreciated, so the cost basis (for taxes) is $0. If you sell that vehicle for more than $0, you must recapture depreciation up to the sale price -- and you will pay tax on that delta between the cost basis the gain.

This is absolutely no different than your Situation 2 below.



You are wrong about this being different than Scenario 1 above. They are exactly the same.



Sounds like you're not studying it AND you're not getting what you're paying for from your accountant.

It's your responsibility to either understand this or do some due diligence to ensure that you hire someone who does. Just because you don't want to put in the work doesn't absolve you from the ramifications of not understanding it. I don't like to study tax rules either, but I do it so that I have control over my financial life.



It *is* a write-off, and it has several benefits:

1. You often pay recapture at a lower rate than the tax benefit it provides, thereby offering you a permanent savings;

2. You have access to the tax benefits today and don't have to repay until tomorrow. Given time value of money, this provides you free money;

3. Depreciation *only* needs to be recaptured if the the sale price is higher than the cost basis, which is reduced by the depreciation.

All that said, if you really can't handle paying depreciation recapture, all you have to do is take the tax savings you get each year from depreciation, stick it in a savings account, and then use it to pay recapture later. Given the benefits above, you'll likely find that the money in the savings account will cover the recapture *plus* leave left-over that is pure profit.

The IRS is giving you a credit for the deterioration of capital items -- all they ask for in return is that you pay tax if the credit they've given you exceeds the actual deterioration of that item.



Nope. Again, the two Scenarios are exactly the same. The only difference is that your vehicle will tend to go down in value while your home will tend to go up in value. But, from a tax perspective and from a depreciation recapture perspective, they are EXACTLY THE SAME.
First of all, THANK YOU for supplying a detailed explanation, which is correct. Because I have two of your books, I will emphasize here, for everyone to see, what a great writer you are.

But.

To the point; If I paid $10,000 a year rent for outside office space, that is a legitimate business expense. That money is long gone, of course, and it is written off 100% as an expense.

If, on the other hand, I depreciate the same expense using the space in my home for the same business, it is not an expense even though I can write it off the same as if it were a rented office outside my home. You did a great job of explaining the benefits and the reasons. However, there are important factors to be aware of.

Sure, there may be slight - and I emphasize slight - advantages. Big damn deal. You are correct when you suggest I set aside the taxable savings into a savings account each year. Well, if I'm setting aside that money, then I don't have the money to use for business purposes - so why play this silly game? To come out ahead a pittance at the end? I'll save 10% on the taxes? Big damn deal. I save 10% on something every week - all I have to do is shop the sales at the grocery stores. On major holidays, I can save 10% on mattresses, furniture, outdoor grills, and garage door openers, if I shop the sales carefully. If I save 10% enough of the time, could I become a millionaire? That's how ridiculous this system is. Where we differ is I call an expense an expense, plain and simple. What you call recaptured depreciation, I call a loan. If it will be paid back, it's a damn loan - minus the details you cited, which I won't go into again for the sake of brevity.

But the point is - now we know. I didn't know this the first time around and therefore was socked with a huge tax bill when I sold my house. The end result was "well, we gave you the legitimate deduction for the expense of your home, but now we want it all back." This point is not hard to grasp, so let's not make it needlessly complicated. What the government is saying is that depreciation is not a deduction, as most people think of a deduction. A deduction is a write off of some sort that doesn't come back and demand to be repaid. And that is the whole point I was making, so others that don't know how the game is played can now be informed.

And while we're on the subject of playing with word meanings, another irritating thing the government does is defend itself on how much it taxes. This comes into play when you pay a fee. They say, oh that's a fee, not a tax. Technically, that's right, so we should not complain then. In the real world, if I have to write a check, it's a damn tax. But it's not a tax - it's a fee - like the yearly license fee for your car. You've already been taxed on it, so they can't tax you again, but they can fee you every year. That's one of many examples. My point is that words can be tricky. Just as a fee is not a tax - depreciation is not a deduction - even though it technically is, as you've explained. They're doing the same thing now with Social Security - trying to call it an "entitlement." That means it's not yours anymore - it's theirs. Yes, it's your money, but it's not your money anymore. Word games. When you see the whole picture, you see how wrong - even evil perhaps - it really is.

You're one of the smartest people I know @JScott, so I know you understand what I'm saying. Let's not mince words and meanings - let's look at the end results. I have a full understanding of how we are being cheated at every turn, and changing the wording doesn't change what's happening in the end.

That's very similar to how your home is taxed. It is valued, but that's not the amount it's taxed on. They apply a formula to come up with the "taxable amount" which is a lot less than the actual market value. For example, your home might be worth $418,400 through careful analysis. BUT the government, through the goodness of their tiny hearts, is only going to tax you on $30,125. Look how much you're saving! We're all saving so much, we should be millionaires! Put enough spin on it till it sounds good!

24971

Now that we know how the game is played, hopefully, we can plan accordingly. And hopefully, nobody will be hit with reclaiming ten years of depreciation, as I was. Even though a home office depreciation is a deduction, it is not a deduction in the sense of a deduction being an expense. There.
 
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Real Deal Denver

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You are just upset that the law doesn't provide you a way of screwing over the company that extended you credit and that you refused to repay. Sorry dude, but if you want sympathy that the state won't help you to not repay your debts, you're not going to get it here.

Take some responsibility for your decisions and stop blaming other people for your mistakes.
I will just add two situations, and let others be the judge. You have already judged me, so I am well aware of your opinion. I don't agree with it, which is why I'm adding this information.

1) My wife and I were hit by an uninsured driver, which resulted in the car being totaled. We could have been killed, so we were very fortunate. There was absolutely nothing we could have done to prevent this accident.

2) My business was wiped out in less than a week, as were all my customers, due to the recession. There was absolutely nothing I could have done to foresee this or prevent it from happening.

I do take responsibility for my actions and decisions. In the first case, our insurance paid for the totaled car. In the second case, I was left standing, like a bomb had gone off and destroyed everything in sight. I was forced into survival mode at that point and found myself instantly poor. Like pudding mix - add water and it's done instantly. As in instant Polaroid photos. As is wasn't here yesterday, but sure is right now.

That has taken me a very long time to recover because of other issues that unexpectedly came up. Life happens.

I guess I wouldn't mind manning up if there was some sort of "bailout" like all the "too big to fail" banks received that caused this shit storm. But there's not, unfortunately, so my survival mode required that I pay for survival first, and everything else second.

There was no advantage for me in this. I did not try to "screw anyone" - and in fact, if anyone was screwed it was me, as I have no credit, but I do have multiple judgments. So I didn't do this for personal gain of any sort. Years later I am only now starting to rebuild, which, as a side note, this Forum has been invaluable beyond words.

My mistake was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just like all the poor people starving in the world today because they were born in the wrong place. Try to remember that as you enjoy the circumstances of your life that DIDN'T stab you in the back and leave you for dead on the side of the road, or starving.
 

JScott

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...so my survival mode required that I pay for survival first, and everything else second.
Nothing wrong with that at all. You have every right to focus on your survival first...

But, here's the thing... If you really feel that's okay, you shouldn't get angry when other people YOU'VE HURT try to take care of themselves first as well. Specifically, the company that lent you money is attempting to take care of themselves first by trying to collect on the debt you incurred.

For some convoluted reason, you don't think they should have a right to do that. Why not? Why shouldn't they be allowed to take care of themselves by coming after the money they are rightfully owed? Why should they have to put YOUR needs ahead of their own?

The problem here is that you're trying to take care of yourself first and you expect others to take care of you first as well. That's entitlement mentality, and it's not going to fly with many of us here...
 

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