I’m Reading Atlas Shrugged; You’re Invited!!!!

[Primeperiwinkle]

SCHEDULE
Part One
November 1st ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 1-2
November 8th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 3-4
November 15th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 5-6
November 22nd ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 7-8
November 29th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 9-10

Part Two
December 6th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 11-12
December 13th ~Atlas Shrugged Ch 13-14
December 20th~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 15-16
December 27th~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 17-18
January 3rd ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 19-20

Part Three
January 10th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 21-22
January 17th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 23-24
January 24th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 25-26
January 31st ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 27-28
February 7th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 28-30

Woot!

Several ppl on the forum have evinced a desire to read Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged but it wasn’t until I googled Kak’s profile line “Who is John Galt?” that I decided I had to read this freaking book before the Summit.

I’m not a fan of Ayn Rand. I’ve never read ANY of her books before. I have no clue what this book is about.

Since Atlas Shrugged has 30 chapters I need to read 2 chapters a week to finish by February 7th. I ordered my copy last week and started reading today. I’m four pages in and I already know from experience that

This is real literature.

And I want to discuss it.

If you’d like to join me I’d love to have you in this SCHEDULED book discussion. Really. I think you’re smart. Whether you’re 15 or 78. Get in here and discuss. What does that mean?

A Scheduled Book Discussion means:

1. We read at an assigned pace together.

2. Each week I summarize what the book said then we talk about what we think it means and how we felt about it.

3. We can only talk about that weeks chapters in that thread. There will be a new thread every week.

4. You CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT the chapters we have already read.

5. No spoilers.

6. NO FREAKING SPOILERS OR I WILL CUT YOU!!!

I can’t possibly make this an inviting and flourishing book discussion if everybody just reads the whole book really fast.

I want to read it together. WITH you. Not AT you. My intent is to ponder and wonder about the book NOT TEACH. I’ve never read the book and I will not be reading any summaries or cliff notes or websites about it. I’m jumping in with only my wits and a pen to underline stuff. Yay!

In other forums this type of structured book discussion has gone amazingly well and has resulted in some powerful paradigm shifts and great relationships. I’m hoping it will happen here but I have no idea. Y’all might just ignore me. I doubt it though cuz I’m entertaining and oh so much fun. Lol. Also, sarcasm. Ha!

Every week I will post a new thread with a summary of the two current chapters. IN THAT THREAD we can discuss what we got out of those two chapters. Please read w/ me!! But no spoilers!!!!!!

If you’ve already read the book PLEASE PLEASE come hang out! But don’t give spoilers. The beauty here is that we will most definitely get some stuff wrong and/or have differing (sometimes passionately so) views but that w/ humility we will change our minds by reading more and DISCOVERING FOR OURSELVES what the book has to say to us.

You’re not a sheep. I don’t have to tell you what to think. You can figure it out on your own. But figuring something out together is just more fun.

If you’re not interested.. no worries. If you are interested (and excited!) please order your book now because this is the discussion schedule.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

6. NO FREAKING SPOILERS OR I WILL CUT YOU!!!

OMG, wait till you get to the part when Dagney posts an inflammatory post on Facebook and ends up getting fired!

 

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[Kak]

It is a great book! My all time favorite book.

 

[JAJT]

62 hours.... I had no idea what I was signing up for. This isn't a book club. It's a part time job.

The entirety of Lord of the Rings is 481,103 words.

Atlas Shrugged is 561,996 words.

It's a big book.

Size aside, what I find most fascinating about Atlas Shrugged is that you can ask 5 people about it and swear they all read 5 different books. It's really amazing how you end up with totally opposite ideas of what the book is about simply based on which characters people associate themselves with in the book.

It's a truly great book though, and THE BOOK that got me off my a$$ and into starting my first business. You could say that reading this book was my "F*ck this" event and turned me from a follower in life to a leader.

If there's one criticism of the book I have, it's that it's not terribly well written (in my opinion). It's heavy handed with every aspect of Rand's philosophy and it leaves zero room for subtlety with the characters or writing. Everyone and everything is basically an extreme caricature of an idea. It's impossible not to understand exactly what Ayn Rand is trying to say.

Conversely, now that I think about it, maybe that's what makes the book so great and enduring - the message isn't lost in subtlety or flowery prose. Perhaps these kind of ideas NEED an extreme amount of bluntness to get the message across undiluted. In any case - it does get a bit dry at times as a result. Especially in "that" chapter. The three hour one. Anyone who's read it knows what I'm talking about.

This is a great idea - thanks for starting this! I've been meaning to re-read it myself as it's also been about 10 years for me. It's basically "must read" material for anyone interested in business and self improvement.

 

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[Kak]

Ladies and Gentlemen... You should prepare to never be the same. You will realize that you have had Stockholm Syndrome your entire life. If you can't learn to cope, you will live in perpetual frustration with government.

Wisdom is a blessing and a curse.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Gushy Post Incoming.

Ok so I have decided to let you guys in on a little ridiculous fun.. (I have a large amount of time to just think at my business where I literally cannot do anything but imagine stuff)

Six years ago I joined a beautiful forum filled with moms from all over the world who discussed books and parenting and education. It’s a private forum so we shared a lot. Over the years (I’m no longer very active there because I don’t homeschool my children) we would make little jokes about how it was a bit like a dormitory or a lovely mansion. We all had our separate places to sleep but we came together in the common room, as we had time, to sit and drink our tea and discuss.

From almost the very first month I joined THIS forum I have been really enjoying myself because this place is exactly like the guy version! It’s a a little refuge of understanding where ppl can refresh before tackling their life. Of course you all discuss different stuff but the ebb and flow is similar.

So whereas my other forum we always imagine a place that had comfy rocking chairs, babies nursing and brownies baking, flowers in every corner.. there were heated discussions about Jane Eyre and sketchbooks filled with watercolors... over here you guys have armor on the walls, leather chairs, a the cigar room and no ones ever in their pajamas except for the workout guys who are making protein shakes early in the morning.

Anyhoo.. I know this is silly but.. in my mind’s eye I found the common room here, a comfy but very masculine living room all prepared with a twenty foot medieval breakfast board against the back wall filled to the brim with steak kabobs and bread rolls and handcrafted beer and charcuterie ready for you all and there’s a huge fire blazing and of course I have the most comfortable seat on an oversized fancy beanbag so I can curl up and listen to a wonderful conversation before tomorrow when we gear up for battle, go out and face down business dragons.

And it’s nice. Because the vast majority of this forum is filled with gentlemen who really are changing the world. (And some awesome chicks!!)

I’m writing all this now because I’m going to try and stick to the discussion during the discussion.. so if I throw olives at any of you ever just remember I have excellent aim but it’s with love. Because I’m SO SO happy to finally have a book discussion about a novel with all of you.

Someday I’ll be too busy and in a completely different stage I’m sure but this winter I’ve got a great book and new friends.

 

[MTEE1985]

Add the Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich to that list. You’ll have 2020 figured out.

Damn man, 1200 pages? These books make Unscripted look like a white paper.

Atlas shrugged- 1100
Titan- 825
Rise and fall- 1200
Unscripted - 400

It’s amazing to break it down though, somebody could read just 10 pages a day and get through them all in a year. That’s a lot of knowledge to gain with an investment of maybe 15 minutes a day.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

Hey @Bekit @broswoodwork @Strategery @BellaPippin @PapaGang @MTEE1985

I double dog dare you guys to read this with me.

 

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[G-Man]

62 hours.... I had no idea what I was signing up for. This isn't a book club. It's a part time job.

EDIT: Now that I know there's a book in existence called "The Road Less Stupid", I'm gonna have to read that too. Don't even care what it's about. Best book title ever.

 

[Kak]

So my Christian friends say it’s dark, twisty, and that there’s a worldview in it that is unsettling. I’m hoping everyone participating will unravel the hell out of the characters motives. But the writing.. oh dude.. the writing is just.. glorious. Rand writes so clearly.

They are spewing nonsense. You don’t need to be a statist to be a Christian. In Ayn Rand’s case, a product of Soviet Russia, she was an Athiest. Still the pro business and pro freedom message is phenomenal.

Not to derail this conversation, but I can easily reconcile a lifestyle of aggressive achievement and frustration with the state with my Christian beliefs.

 

[Kak]

Please jump in and gently steer us forward if you ever feel like it. I trust you.
But no spoilers.

I might read it with you guys. It has been at least 10 years.

 

[Kak]

Since the book is a philosophy book, it's axioms apply to all of existence, which is why religion factors into the equation.

It's very easy to read this book and not apply any of it's axioms to religion, and why many read it purely as an economics-focused fable.

Though some would argue that you can't cherry pick where you apply a fundamental philosophy such as those being put forward in Atlas Shrugged.

I agree that it is a philosophy book... For now I believe it is a political and economic philosophy book. The fundamental philosophy being personal achievement, free market capitalism, freedom, and a disdain for central political control. To the point of complete abandonment of society as it was becoming.

We have been very civil in our discussions, but I am starting to feel like some of you guys want to weaponize this against believers anyway.

So Ayn Rand was an atheist objectivist. We all know that; it was mentioned very early in this thread. That doesn’t mean Atlas Shrugged is a manifesto against religion like perhaps some of her other writings may be.

Nevertheless, this is a discussion about Atlas Shrugged, not Objectivism, not Ayn Rand and not religion. I will eat my words if this book somehow surprises me with dominant anti-religious precept.

 

[1step]

Just Bought it, so no going back now

62 hours 56 mins, nothing short of Epic!

I'm guessing most people do this but in case some don't, I definitely recommend listening to books or podcasts at 1.5-2x speed. I find I have to pay attention more at this speed which leads to my brain drifting off less

 

[Kak]

Absolutely this.

My wife thinks I'm crazy because I listen/watch everything informational on 2x speed but I honestly can't go back to real time speed at this point - it almost sounds like slow motion.

I totally agree with the easier to pay attention point. If it's any slower I get frustrated, bored, and tend to multi-task (and then retain none of the info since I wasn't paying attention).

I have had the same experience. Wife gets into car before I can turn book off.... “How on earth can you understand that?”

It is surprising how fast you can go by bumping it up little by little

 

[Kak]

First time reading it, and I’m almost done with the first 8 hrs. The conversations had by Hanks pretentious party guests could have come right out of the BS I used to be subjected to when I worked for NGOs.

Fiction just got real.

I think @Primeperiwinkle is going to cut you now.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

first infraction noted.

*pulls out knife sharpener and looks at it

Dammit I’m 39 and I still don’t know how to use the knife sharpener.. ugh.

*throws olive at person-who-shall-not-be-named

Heh.

*goes to freshen up the hors d’oeuvres.

 

[csalvato]

You can’t reason your way out of faith either without logical fallacies.

That is why it is ironic that a belief in a God is called faith, but non-belief isn’t considered an equal form of faith.

I think you're conflating faith with religion.

God is not called faith. A belief in God, however, requires faith.

That is, religion and theism requires faith as a mechanism. Faith, in and of itself, is not religion or a belief in god.

An Atheist who is sound in their logic will say something like "There are claims of god, but no proof. I can't believe in a god until there is proof. When you provide proof, I can re-evaluate my belief." This is a logical conclusion to make.

An Atheist that has made a faith-based, and unsound logical argument will say something like "The proof that there is no god is that my dad died in a plane crash, and people are starving in Africa. Such atrocities wouldn't happen to good people if a God exists." This latter atheist requires a leap of faith in their discernment because the premise is disconnected from the conclusion.

I'm not telling you that your faith is incorrect, nor that Atheists are correct. I am simply teasing away the conflation that God + Faith are intertwined.

I for one would argue that Ayn Rand’s writings in Atlas Shrugged were primarily economic in theory. I can’t recall much of a religious argument at all the last time I read it.

The book at its core is a philosophy book.

Philosophy doesn't discern between economics and religion.

Philosophy is an exploration of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality and existence. Both economics and religion are within that larger superset (all well as everything else we can experience).

Rand's premises in the book are fundamental. The notion that `A is A` is a fundamental, philosophical, logical argument.

Among other philosophical notions expressed in the book, the conclusion that `A is A` clashes hard against religion in almost every way.

To reconcile the two would be very difficult. It seems that to do so, you have put these assertions in separate cognitive `boxes` – religion in one box; economic theory in another.

 

[Kak]

I think you're conflating faith with religion.

An Atheist who is sound in their logic will say something like "There are claims of god, but no proof. I can't believe in a god until there is proof. When you provide proof, I can re-evaluate my belief." This is a logical conclusion to make.

I am actually conflating the two. You’re right. I agree.

Atheism is making a claim that there is no God in the affirmative. They are claiming that there is no God the same way a Christian would be making a claim that there is one.

So I do disagree that the lack of proof affirming the existence of god somehow creates a logically sound argument for an atheist when contrarily the lack of proof that repudiates the existence of god doesn’t give Christians a “logically sound argument.”

My point, Christians, like myself, are more than happy to call our beliefs “faith.” Atheists, on the other hand, claimed a monopoly on the word “reason” with nothing, but logical fallacy to support its use.

As far as super in depth philosophical meaning within the book. Maybe I didn’t catch it the first time around, but I will be looking out for it this time. For now, the message I got from it, reading it the first time, was economic and anti-political in nature.

Yes, I am happy to separate the two belief systems and have done so for years. There are communist Christians and anarcho-capitalist Christians. There are communist atheists and anarcho-capitalist atheists... and everything in between. Nothing here is mutually exclusive.

 

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[Ocean Man]

This early morning, I was able to finish Atlas Shrugged.

All I can say is, wow.

It’s hard for me to describe the book, I even had a difficult time telling others what the book was about because there’s just so much that happens.

This book left an impression on me.

- Don’t be a looter, be a producer. (Reminds me of TMF , start being a producer and provide value.)
- Inspires me to think more and strive for larger ambitions. To innovate and improve.
- Reminds me to think for myself and that I don’t owe a thing to anyone. Why do people deserve anything of me? The same goes for you or anyone else. You don’t owe me anything, you don’t have to give your mind and ideas to me. You don’t have to do anything for me, just as I don’t have to do anything for you.

The more I think about the book, the more lessons I find from it. What a great book.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I’m in, was thinking literally yesterday I need to read it again.

What’s the policy on spoilers?

YAY!!!!
Slow death by butter knife. Don’t make me cut you. ROFL.

 

[Conscripted]

For those that haven't read any of Rand's work I found "Anthem" to be a good primer. It's a quick read and provides plenty to think about.
-Conscripted

 

[Kak]

Is this a book that’ll require you to stop, take notes, and continue? Or is this the type of book to simply listen and soak in?

I’m getting close to committing, haha.

Just listen.

 

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[csalvato]

One of my favorite books of all time.

It's a classic. Even communists should read it (just like all capitalists should read The Communist Manifesto).

I find Atlas Shrugged to be motivating and foster a tribal mindset among entrepreneurs. It's a very valuable book if entrepreneurship is in your life plan.

FYI it was pretty much a bible for Steve Jobs and Mark Cuban. After you finish Atlas Shrugged, also pick up Fountainhead, which is better in some ways.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I’m gonna read the book before I read anything more about Rand, I want to make my own conclusions.

 

[csalvato]

If faith is anti-reason what is pro-reason? Atheism?

Faith is anti-reason.
Reason is the anti-faith.

You cannot reason your way into faith. You cannot have faith in reasoning.

Atheism, religion, agnosticism, etc. are simply conclusions people draw depending on how much they are willing to jump to a conclusion based on the evidence they experience.

In other words, Atheism (and other religious conclusions/beliefs) is the outcome of faith and reason.

 

[Fox]

Alright alright - the hype worked. I’m in!

 

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[broswoodwork]

Let me make this abundantly clear.

There’s too many ppl in this book discussion for all of us to agree. Person A might say something that is in direct opposition to what Person B got out of the book.

That’s ok.

Just don’t use the word “you”. Use “I feel” “I read” “I think” and we’ll all be fine. Ask questions. Cool.

The majority has NOT read the whole book so there’s no way any of us can say decisively what the entire book is about. Yet.

On FRIDAY we will discuss Chapters 1&2. If anyone who has read the entire book feels the need to have a conversation about the personal philosophy of Ayn Rand - please take it to pm. Thank you.

I'm just going to follow your lead on this one.

The last time I discussed the book, and its philosophy, it was with a group of communists on facebook back in 2011. Seemed like a cool group until that point... Turned out to be a bunch of Occupy zombies.

Presumably, any discourse here will be more civil and rational than that.

 

[Kak]

You cannot reason your way into faith. You cannot have faith in reasoning.

You can’t reason your way out of faith either without logical fallacies.

That is why it is ironic that a belief in a God is called faith, but non-belief isn’t considered an equal form of faith.

I for one would argue that Ayn Rand’s writings in Atlas Shrugged were primarily economic in theory. I can’t recall much of a religious argument at all the last time I read it.

 

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[Bekit]

Just gonna leave this here...

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

In “Atlas Shrugged,” everyone gets poor, and if we stay on our current turn toward statism and don’t stand up for our rights, we will be poorer and a lot less free.

 

[broswoodwork]

It is a great book! My all time favorite book.

Are you secretly working on a Utopia of Greed? If so, what's the entry criteria?

 

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