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MJ DeMarco

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Wow, this is worse than I thought, median income just slightly over $40K, only 2% make over $300K, which likely means your average guru/coach who claims he's a millionaire is likely full of shit.
 
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thechosen1

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I always found this one interesting. It appears finance has the highest 1% income, but management looks like the most accessible with the best mix of high income and high percentage of the population...

That being said, focusing on statistics = waste of time, especially if you're an entrepreneur and you're looking at jobs you would never take anyway

(maybe management includes ownership of a business or company? The graph shows how the tail end gets really fat for managers. Doctors peter out somewhere in the six figures. Even engineering skews better at the million dollar range)

"Entrepreneurs might be the most interesting category for our audience, though most of them will already be included in the other categories ... Since so many different roles can be counted as “entrepreneurship” – from small business owners to VC-funded tech founders – this doesn’t tell us much. It could also be that the highest-earning entrepreneurs are counted as managers or something else."

If you combine two high paying categories, overlap them - like entrepreneur + law, or medicine + private biz, your odds (and income) likely skew even higher to the upside! Private law firm, private engineering practice, or "business only a doctor can start" would all fit the bill.
 
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Fox

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Wow, this is worse than I thought, median income just slightly over $40K, only 2% make over $300K, which likely means your average guru/coach who claims he's a millionaire is likely full of shit.

I wonder if this data shows up business owners though?

With taxes, I would imagine most people avoid paying themselves a large wage, no matter how much their business makes.

Either way, it does look terribly low for most people.
 

Rabby

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Wow, this is worse than I thought, median income just slightly over $40K, only 2% make over $300K, which likely means your average guru/coach who claims he's a millionaire is likely full of shit.
The travesty is that a majority could double their economic power, at least (the equivalent of 80k median... though currency would probably adjust given a shift like that).

I talk to a lot of people, and the most mystifying thing to most is that they're allowed to try out an idea, allowed to offer services on their own instead of looking for jobs, allowed to mess up, fix the problem, and make something better and better over time.

Things are just the way they are, this is how it's done, "it is what it is"... Millions of people believe they're constrained by rules or physical principals that don't even exist outside of their own misconceptions. Their friends and families reinforce these false truths daily. They take on less useful, less appreciated work in jobs for cartoonishly stupid managers who are also working off of false principles. They think their lives are dictated by external circumstance, so they never push through that internal resistance, wasting nearly infinite potential. The fact that so many people have been demoralized into this low-agency state is really frustrating if you start thinking about it.
 
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Rabby

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I wonder if this data shows up business owners though?

With taxes, I would imagine most people avoid paying themselves a large wage, no matter how much their business makes.

Either way, it does look terribly low for most people.
One can hope. Maybe they don't track profitable exit events either, since those are not "income per year." A billionaire might be in their sample and show up as living below poverty, because everything is owned by trusts, family offices, etc.
 

thechosen1

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One can hope. Maybe they don't track profitable exit events either, since those are not "income per year." A billionaire might be in their sample and show up as living below poverty, because everything is owned by trusts, family offices, etc.
the link I shared is related to MJ's link and addresses this a little.

Capital gains are a great way to get rich, and don't really show in the data very well. Entrepreneurs also don't show in the data because they often overlap into other categories.

The people writing the articles try to put the data (and people) into boxes, just like you said in your post before this one. And those boxes don't work!
 

jdm667

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Wow, this is worse than I thought, median income just slightly over $40K, only 2% make over $300K, which likely means your average guru/coach who claims he's a millionaire is likely full of shit.
If you are making $40k per year or less (at most $3400 per month), a small side hustle earning $1k per month would be life changing (+30% or more to your income).

That is well within reach for most people. 1 hour per day (30 days per month) times $33.33 per hour freelancing is $1k per month. You might have to learn a new (valuable) skill and get a few clients, but it is doable.

I think @Rabby is right that most people just believe by default that they cannot do this - and so they never even try. It really is sad.
 
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Rabby

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the link I shared is related to MJ's link and addresses this a little.

Capital gains are a great way to get rich, and don't really show in the data very well. Entrepreneurs also don't show in the data because they often overlap into other categories.

The people writing the articles try to put the data (and people) into boxes, just like you said in your post before this one. And those boxes don't work!
That's a good point... I wonder to what extent these kinds of statistics are really designed to reinforce some demoralizing or riot inciting idea. I do know that we have statistical cycles that get glossed over because they are inconvenient to the narrative.

For example, older people make more money is a general truth in an economy with a lot of knowledge workers. The more you know and can do, the more valuable... and it doesn't matter if your knees give out and you can't pick up a load of bricks anymore.

Also, the top 3% isn't the same people all the time. In other words, people's fortunes rise, climax, fall, and come back again individually. Some stick at the top, or over the moon like the billionaires, but a lot more get "rich" for a while, crash and burn, or burn out, and adjust back toward the median income.

Knowing these could change how you think about wealth and long term strategy significantly. But most people think there are 100 thieves standing over 300 million serfs, so they will never think through how to reach the .01% and stick there.

[Edit for clarification: "what we now consider the 0.01%, based on economic power." Obviously, 0.01% is always 0.01%... a fact ripe for propagandizing with tautologies like "the top 1% have most of the wealth!" ... since our species apparently has the hardest time with statistical concepts, despite discovering them and writing whole forests worth of books about them.]
 

thechosen1

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For example, older people make more money is a general truth in an economy with a lot of knowledge workers. The more you know and can do, the more valuable... and it doesn't matter if your knees give out and you can't pick up a load of bricks anymore.
The same applies to how "X% of people are 'hoarding' Y% of the wealth" - old people will always have disproportionately more wealth than younger people because they have been alive longer.

It was once common sense that an older person has more time to work, save, invest and accumulate wealth (and that it was a good thing since they would be the ones who needed it as they got weak and frail). But nowadays, this common sense fact is totally glossed over in the name of that same rioting wokeness/divisiveness we always see.

Obviously a 19-year old waitress is not going to have the same bank account as a 75 year old who has had 12 different jobs.
 

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Looking at income stats is how people come to believe a whole bunch of bullshit.

I remember being in school. I would look up "highest paying jobs" because I wanted to be wealthy. I found an article that said "petroleum engineers make a lot of money" and I based my career path on that. What a F*cking moron I was lol.

And articles that talk about happiness not improving after like 70k a year or whatever, what another load of bullshit! That's because all of the wage slaves that rise to a level of 100k a year have to bust their a$$ to earn it! I can promise you my 6 figure income in my 20's while living like a retired man is awesome as F*ck and it keeps getting better.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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I can promise you my 6 figure income in my 20's while living like a retired man is awesome as f*ck and it keeps getting better.
Be careful Johnny… the world is a ruthless place, while you live like a retired man someone out there is working non-stop to better themselves and take your money. Competition is always just around the corner, don’t let them get to you. Just push hard in your 20s and gather a big bag of mullah. Retire in your 30s, my 2c
 

thechosen1

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Be careful Johnny… the world is a ruthless place, while you live like a retired man someone out there is working non-stop to better themselves and take your money. Competition is always just around the corner, don’t let them get to you. Just push hard in your 20s and gather a big bag of mullah. Retire in your 30s, my 2c
counterpoint: you are only young once. YOLO is dumb when you're broke, fantastic when you have it figured out.

I love what you're doing @Johnny boy . You know my situation, and honestly I would rather be in your shoes! :rofl:
 

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Looking at income stats is how people come to believe a whole bunch of bullshit.

I remember being in school. I would look up "highest paying jobs" because I wanted to be wealthy. I found an article that said "petroleum engineers make a lot of money" and I based my career path on that. What a f*cking moron I was lol.

And articles that talk about happiness not improving after like 70k a year or whatever, what another load of bullshit! That's because all of the wage slaves that rise to a level of 100k a year have to bust their a$$ to earn it! I can promise you my 6 figure income in my 20's while living like a retired man is awesome as f*ck and it keeps getting better.
Haha... I love that last paragraph. :rofl:

You reminded me, when I was in highschool, they told my whole year that there was a national shortage of biologists. Everyone should be a biology major! These will be the highest paying jobs! Pretty sure most of the students majored in biology after that. Some I know for sure changed their career paths based on that advice.

Guess what? Quest and some other labs needed more workers to stick blood tubes into machines for drug testing. Sure was getting expensive with that lack of biologists. And what do you know, they managed to get that job down to $10 per hour handling blood and urine, and all they had to do was recruit some excitable highschool counselors!

Average salary of a biologist in my state? $30,000.

Never more glad to be a contrarian.
 
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Rabby

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Be careful Johnny… the world is a ruthless place, while you live like a retired man someone out there is working non-stop to better themselves and take your money. Competition is always just around the corner, don’t let them get to you. Just push hard in your 20s and gather a big bag of mullah. Retire in your 30s, my 2c
Keep the competitors honest... make them improve the product and offer better services. Maybe if they improve enough, you're willing to buy their company.
 

AppMan

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Wow, this is worse than I thought, median income just slightly over $40K, only 2% make over $300K, which likely means your average guru/coach who claims he's a millionaire is likely full of shit.
Sound unrealistic , most likely self employed report less what they actually make.
 

ekateriv

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Haha... I love that last paragraph. :rofl:

You reminded me, when I was in highschool, they told my whole year that there was a national shortage of biologists. Everyone should be a biology major! These will be the highest paying jobs! Pretty sure most of the students majored in biology after that. Some I know for sure changed their career paths based on that advice.

Guess what? Quest and some other labs needed more workers to stick blood tubes into machines for drug testing. Sure was getting expensive with that lack of biologists. And what do you know, they managed to get that job down to $10 per hour handling blood and urine, and all they had to do was recruit some excitable highschool counselors!

Average salary of a biologist in my state? $30,000.

Never more glad to be a contrarian.
A bunch of people went on to study law based on similar advice in my high school. Even back then I knew it was moronic.
I do know quite a few people who are salaried/small equity owners who are in the 1%. The problem as someone alluded above is that high salary is no path towards happiness. Generally speaking, you get paid half or less of what you're worth to the business owner. That is, if you're pulling 7 figs +, your lifestyle tends to reflect that. Don't know anyone who is pulling 7+ figures as an employee and is truly, genuinely happy and not making significant trade-offs. I've never ever envied any of my managers or aspired to be like them for that reason.
 
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Rabby

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A bunch of people went on to study law based on similar advice in my high school. Even back then I knew it was moronic.
I do know quite a few people who are salaried/small equity owners who are in the 1%. The problem as someone alluded above is that high salary is no path towards happiness. Generally speaking, you get paid half or less of what you're worth to the business owner. That is, if you're pulling 7 figs +, your lifestyle tends to reflect that. Don't know anyone who is pulling 7+ figures as an employee and is truly, genuinely happy and not making significant trade-offs. I've never ever envied any of my managers or aspired to be like them for that reason.
Yep, and in my area, while there are successful lawyers, most make significantly less than professionals who have no degree... insurance agents, mortgage brokers, claims adjusters, etc. Some others make a lot on paper, but after you deduct student loans, they're no better off than any other office worker. Their title is more impressive though! Maybe.

I think high income and high happiness as an employee could exist, but it's rarely implemented in practice. A big problem is lack of control over one's own work and objectives, which tends to make people unhappy and stressed.

Another is that income is almost always tied to the wrong things in some way. A person who works a lot of overtime and avoids getting fired often makes more money than a person who makes every customer happy. A professor who publishes 9 papers makes more money than a professor who helps 900 students understand something better than anyone else. We can intuit the wrongness of this, but not every organization has someone creative and focused (and tough) enough to fix these fundamental problems.

And often there are ill-conceived laws, 'best practices,' and social ethics in place that supposedly protect people, but which in fact demoralize them and dissipate their creative energy.
 

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