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How I went from financial App failure to finding success on the App Store

Rcaraway1989

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I spent 4 months developing my last app to perfection, building a fancy website, setting up support, only to have it completely flop. So painful, and it wasn't the first time I've done it.

I knew I needed better process, so I've since been seeking a more "lean" approach to the infamous anti-lean App Store.

In contrast, the initial release of my next app GifShare took 6 days to build, had no fancy features, minimal design, and was pretty buggy. Yet it was doing $800/month (now up to $1,200/month a month later).

So what did I change? How did I learn to ship faster more profitably?

1. Validate - I setup a landing page using the service QuickMVP which took maybe 10 minutes. I setup an ugly v1 of the App icon on it which took an hour. The point of the page was to convey what the purpose of the app did, and to see if people would click through to get the app.

2. Test - I wanted to see if I could drive traffic to the landing page with minimal effort. GifShare's proposed purpose was to allow posting GIFs to Instagram, so I search google for things like "post gifs to instagram".

I found things like blog posts, youtube videos, and Yahoo! answers where I left a comment saying "This app is built specifically for this - [app link]"

The way QuickMVP helps you test is, if enough people click through and give you your email in a certain time period, then your idea is "validated". For me to find this idea worth building, I wanted to see if I could get 50 emails in 3 days.

I got double that (101 emails). With less than 3 hours of total work.

3. Build - The important part about building is that you build NO MORE than a minimally working version. I marketed "Post GIFs to Instagram" so I built just that in its simplest form.

I did it this way because it would take me less time -- and if I solved the problem in its basic form in a way that would generate revenue for me. If the business model wasn't panning out, I at least didn't waste time or energy to figure it out.

I've since added extra features and tweaked the app a bit to do $400/month than it originally was doing.

There's a lot more complexities to the process, so feel free to ask questions. I'd love to discuss.
 
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parkerscott

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What are your downloads like for this app compared to others? Im considering having a friend develop an app for me, and im curious as to what a real expectation would be, and im guessing its either a hit or miss thing.
 

Rcaraway1989

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What are your downloads like for this app compared to others? Im considering having a friend develop an app for me, and im curious as to what a real expectation would be, and im guessing its either a hit or miss thing.

The app did 8,000 downloads in its first month.

I would not say App Store success is hit or miss as I described in my post. There's a lot of factors at play, depending on how ambitious your app idea is. Is it a big idea or small? Lots of competition or niche market?
 

parkerscott

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The app did 8,000 downloads in its first month.

I would not say App Store success is hit or miss as I described in my post. There's a lot of factors at play, depending on how ambitious your app idea is. Is it a big idea or small? Lots of competition or niche market?

Wow 8k downloads. Very impressive.

As for my plan its a big idea with absolutely zero competition. Just a couple downloads wouldnt cut it for me.
 
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Rcaraway1989

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Wow 8k downloads. Very impressive.

As for my plan its a big idea with absolutely zero competition. Just a couple downloads wouldnt cut it for me.

I agree wasting time on a big idea sucks. My suggestion is to think about the least amount of work you can put in to validating the idea. Are people solving this problem in a more primitive way already? If so, why not interview a few and gauge their responses to see if it feels like you're on to something big.

Then, even still, you can just throw up a landing page after you've identified a target customer and see if you can get lots of emails.

Building the actual app should happen waay down the line -- until you've validated everything else.
 

parkerscott

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I agree wasting time on a big idea sucks. My suggestion is to think about the least amount of work you can put in to validating the idea. Are people solving this problem in a more primitive way already? If so, why not interview a few and gauge their responses to see if it feels like you're on to something big.

Then, even still, you can just throw up a landing page after you've identified a target customer and see if you can get lots of emails.

Building the actual app should happen waay down the line -- until you've validated everything else.

Ok thanks a ton. I will certainly try validating the idea before I think about launching.
 

Rcaraway1989

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So how are you generating revenue from the app? Paid upgrades?

Yes. I tested this before I launched the app, too. I got a few users to beta test, but I put the pricing in their anyway to see if they would bite. They did, so I moved forward with the app.
 

BlakeIC

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What is the app?
I skimmed through the post my heart is racing right now for some reason anyways brb here is some pictures i have found hilarious the entire day



MMRyQgF.png

8Gjf7rX.png
 

dantech

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Did you post on reddit also?? If so, that is how I found your app and was playing around with it!!
 

PedroG

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Great post! So you mainly promoted it just by commenting on different sites?
 
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Yury

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Great approach and thank you for sharing. If more people would use this mvp/validate-test-build approach (not just with apps but with many other types of business) hey there would be much less opinions like 'entrepreneurship is difficult and not for everyone' (of course it is if they try to build&sell something that noone needs!).
 

tafy

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Great approach and thank you for sharing. If more people would use this mvp/validate-test-build approach (not just with apps but with many other types of business) hey there would be much less opinions like 'entrepreneurship is difficult and not for everyone' (of course it is if they try to build&sell something that noone needs!).

Validation is difficult sometimes, take the case of Twitter, if they tried to validate that then they would have not built it at all

Twitter took 2 years before it got popular?

Sometimes you have to build what you believe
 
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Yury

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Validation is difficult sometimes
Correct, sometimes it's difficult or even impossible.

And sometimes actions based on wrong beliefs bring tremendous success - take Columbus and his "East Indies" across the Atlantic.

But way too often the gamble is not required and does not add any value but wastes one's resources.
In this case some people/companies manage to pivot in the process but others can't afford it and just fail.

In this case @Rcaraway1989 explains exactly how you can validate it and what's the risk when you don't do it.

In other cases the validation and testing process will be different and sometimes you'll have to get creative but ignoring the basic homework and blindly dumping lots of resources into a project hoping for a good outcome... wow, that sounds more like gambling.


Sometimes you have to build what you believe
Yeah. Something tells me though that it's important to be careful and tell apart cases when it really can't be validated (or not worth doing it due to low risk etc) or one's just lazy...

At least that's what I've seen around me (and not just seen but participated sometimes, duh) as one of the main causes of failure - being lazy and ignorant and relying on luck too much instead of taking simple measures to assess and adjust one's course when it's not too late.
 

tafy

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And sometimes actions based on wrong beliefs bring tremendous success - take Columbus and his "East Indies" across the Atlantic.

Well the belief was that the earth was not flat and he would hit land at somepoint which he did, the only problem was he thought it would be China he would land in and not America. So depends how you look at it. I see an educated guess that brought success.

Im glad we agree that validation isnt valid for some projects

Validation is difficult to assess, did Columbus validate his project? He believed the world was not flat but it wasnt proved, he beleived that since it wasnt flat there had to be land somewhere across the atlantic, he knew it could be a long journey so he packed the ship full of supplies to make sure he lasted a long time. All educated guesses but not validated, for all other traders that went after columbus, did they need to validate the idea? Didnt columbus validate the idea for them?

If I am a great web designer, do I need to validate before I build a web site to offer my services? is it already validated? how about 100s of other businesses like cafes, restaurants, pubs, clubs etc

Im a big believer in educated guesses and pivoting
 
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Vespasian

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Great example of why you should create MVPs for your business.
What would you say was your risk if none opted in while doing the trial run? 3 hours for free marketing and 1 for the whole setup?

Now some more ideas to make more money:
  • Did you contact app review blogs / Youtubers to review the app?
  • Increase the app price to 1.99, then contact 'App Deal of the Day' apps to get free promotion (for example this http://appgratis.com/). You'll get more reach and as you monetize the app via IAP it won't hurt you. Just don't forget to decrease the price after the promotion again.
  • Try to find out what your audience looks like. It's not easy, but it's very the money is at. If you know what your audience looks like you'll see tons of opportunities to make money money off your app by cross promoting a new app. You can do this by asking your audience simple questions about their life (3 choices, one tap will select and trigger the answer) every 10th time they use your app. This will be a little bit tricky to put together in the backend but gives you valuable insights.
  • Also try to get them to either opt in via email (best but hardest), Facebook page like or Twitter. If you can reach your audience through different channels you can get tons of downloads for your next app within a day (for free).
 

Yury

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I see an educated guess that brought success.
Exactly! That's the point. An educated guess, based on some evidence (homework done) - and then the necessary gamble when it was inevitable.

did Columbus validate his project
I figure his first attempt was the validation itself. Thinking about it now, Columbus did not assemble and sail a big fleet (whether that was possible or not is another question), you can say that he sailed the Minimal Viable Expedition (MVE) which itself was the only possible validation of his ideas.

@Rcaraway1989 in his example at first sent a big fleet in a wrong direction, and so he learned from that and the next time he decided to send a MVE first to check if there's some land at all. And only after validating the route (and doing some more homework) he decided to send the full fleet.


If I am a great web designer, do I need to validate
It depends on whether this designer thinks that he/she is great (a good road to a depressing failure for many under-recognized geniuses out there)... or did the clients actually recognized and appreciated his/her greatness?

And even if you're a great designer, you're at risk when not validating&testing your portfolio approach.

Straight away I can think of a couple of great designers whose portfolio sites reflected their brilliance but many prospective clients (myself included) could not connect their brilliance with the client's needs, as the portfolio is fancy and stuff and the talent is clear but while aesthetically I enjoy looking at the portfolio, as a client I'm not convinced that they will be able to solve my problems.

So it was like a huge fleet with orchestras and balloons sailing in a wrong direction.
Did these great designers need to validate and test?.. It's up to them.


Im a big believer in educated guesses and pivoting
Me too - when you have enough resources to pivot and your guesses are really educated. So when one is not lazy and does the homework to make the educated guesses, this person will determine if it's possible to run some validation process & tests, or it's completely impossible in this particular case (due to its nature and not to the laziness).

So in this latter case, a necessary gamble is inevitable. And if you can afford it and the worst case scenario won't sink your ship (or you don't mind it), why not to go for it.


how about 100s of other businesses like cafes, restaurants, pubs, clubs etc
You mean these that open and fail by truckloads a day? The ones like that hip hop shop in MJ's book?


Ok we could go on and on about that but I think there's no need in it really.

I guess we just use different words for the same thing. You call it educated guesses. I call it validating&testing as much as possible when applicable, and carefully assessing and accepting possible downsides of your actions in other cases.

It's about being responsible and not doing reckless choices when there's absolutely no need in it and no reasons for skipping the validation&testing process apart from one's laziness.
 

tafy

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Yeah I think we are saying the same thing but with different words
Sent from my RM-892_eu_euro1_274 using Tapatalk
 
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teabag

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QuickMVP was... well, quick to set up.

First time using google ad words so I put $50 as my budget. Pretty excited to see what happens (or doesn't).

It recommended I drop $380 on google adwords to get a 250 click rate. Not sure if that's how much I should be spending right away, but looking forward to whatever happens.
 

Rcaraway1989

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Great example of why you should create MVPs for your business.
What would you say was your risk if none opted in while doing the trial run? 3 hours for free marketing and 1 for the whole setup?

Now some more ideas to make more money:
  • Did you contact app review blogs / Youtubers to review the app?
  • Increase the app price to 1.99, then contact 'App Deal of the Day' apps to get free promotion (for example this http://appgratis.com/). You'll get more reach and as you monetize the app via IAP it won't hurt you. Just don't forget to decrease the price after the promotion again.
  • Try to find out what your audience looks like. It's not easy, but it's very the money is at. If you know what your audience looks like you'll see tons of opportunities to make money money off your app by cross promoting a new app. You can do this by asking your audience simple questions about their life (3 choices, one tap will select and trigger the answer) every 10th time they use your app. This will be a little bit tricky to put together in the backend but gives you valuable insights.
  • Also try to get them to either opt in via email (best but hardest), Facebook page like or Twitter. If you can reach your audience through different channels you can get tons of downloads for your next app within a day (for free).

Thanks for the amazing insight Vespasian. Do you have apprepeur experience?
  • I haven't contacted any reviewers yet -- probably a good idea at some point.
  • Not a bad idea, the app is free already and uses IAP though.
  • I know exactly who my audience is -- I collected many emails before and ran a few surveys to gather some data.
  • In the same vein, I have an instagram page for the app that is linked to very noticably in the app. I get about 15-20 new followers from the app daily.
  • A second, slightly related app is already in the works and will be directly linked to from Gifshare once its ready (that app was also pre-validated using a landing page)
 

Rcaraway1989

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QuickMVP was... well, quick to set up.

First time using google ad words so I put $50 as my budget. Pretty excited to see what happens (or doesn't).

It recommended I drop $380 on google adwords to get a 250 click rate. Not sure if that's how much I should be spending right away, but looking forward to whatever happens.

Ya I'd recommend spending little -- maybe $15/day -- then if that goes well increase a bit.
 
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Yury

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looking forward to whatever happens
It's so refreshing to actually see people just going and trying things out straight away!
Internet (and life in general) is full of wanna-bes who claim that they wanna change their lives but won't actually try something new at all.
So I bet you'll get some useful experience @teabag and it will pay you back much more in the future.

maybe $15/day
It depends on the industry of course as in some cases you won't get clicked once for $15 lol.
But if that's not the case I'll second @Rcaraway1989 as usually you don't need to spend too much to see how the first visitors behave, adjust your funnel and then add some more fuel.

Also please make sure you don't fall into this trap, or a similar one:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/how-i-lost-550-to-google.53043/
 
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G

Guest24480

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I'm guessing you developed the app yourself? How long did it take to make the prototype version where you tested the market and got paying customers and at what point did you begin to think about upgrading it?
 

Rcaraway1989

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I'm guessing you developed the app yourself? How long did it take to make the prototype version where you tested the market and got paying customers and at what point did you begin to think about upgrading it?

I'm a really good app dev, so I made it myself -- the initial version was built in 6 days. What I did was send out an email campaign to those who had signed up and got about 15 beta testers (this is validation in itself -- signing up for beta testing an iPhone app is a very annoying process).

What I did was build a beta version with a whole bunch of fake features and only the illusion that you had to pay to upgrade (since you can't actually have in app purchases until its on the App Store). This allowed me to measure what features people would actually use and to see what price point I could get people to pay for.

I should note that while I developed the app myself, my next app is being outsourced -- doing dev work myself has proven to be too strong of a bottleneck -- it's very important to have my energy focused on things like market analysis and other higher level activities.
 
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Yury

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@Rcaraway1989 do you stick with AppStore or you cover (or plan to cover) Android as well?
Thumbs up for going from AppDev to BizDev.

But I can easily imagine, once you've reached good success with your business, people looking at your latest app and some your interview about it and thinking, Hey! He just took an idea, outsourced it and earned lots of cash! Wow! I'll do the same.

And they'll completely miss all the processes of you carefully building up the experience, digging the "dirt" with your hand, validating, testing, iterating...

So thank you for sharing your real quest here!
 
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parkerscott

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It's so refreshing to actually see people just going and trying things out straight away!
Internet (and life in general) is full of wanna-bes who claim that they wanna change their lives but won't actually try something new at all.
So I bet you'll get some useful experience @teabag and it will pay you back much more in the future.


It depends on the industry of course as in some cases you won't get clicked once for $15 lol.
But if that's not the case I'll second @Rcaraway1989 as usually you don't need to spend too much to see how the first visitors behave, adjust your funnel and then add some more fuel.

Also please make sure you don't fall into this trap, or a similar one:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/how-i-lost-550-to-google.53043/

Im well aware of that thread ;) I think i got the charges disputed though. Still be carefull because they will automatically start a campaign and keep billing you.
 
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