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Kak

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Lol... The biggest thing I am shocked about is @Levin is actually making a very rational argument for ditching school... AND he is doing it with proper grammar and coherent language skills. On top of all of this, he apologizes for any error because english isn't even his first language.

Language skills that many college graduates I know do not have.

He talks about continuous improvement like someone that actually continously improves themselves. Even his avatar is professional.

@Levin, to me you seem like the rare kind of person that can rise above instutitionalized learning and actually be smart. Kudos to you. Whatever decision you make, I have confidence you will do very well.

My only caution to you is your inexperience. Things RARELY go as planned, but it seems like you already know that... Which makes you very mature for 15.

Remember this is YOUR decision. No one else's.
 
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Levin

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Good afternoon from Switzerland!
I'm Levin, 15 years old, and I just joined the Forum
I'm about to drop out of school, I just can't listen to this shit that my teachers tell me in school...
May sound a bit radical, but look, what have I to loose?
I have 3 years time now to build something that's earning me income... (I've started investing in stocks 2 years ago)
And also here in Switzerland, we have the best social care system...
So, really, what the F*ck are those people thinking that tell me each and every day "HEY LEVIN, you're too young and the thing you wanna do is too risky!"
Seriously, where's the risk??? I mean I don't have a problem living below my means if i have to for reaching independence!
Ok, that's it for the first, looking forward to nice and interesting conversations with you guys!
Have a wonderful day,
greetings
Levin

PS. Sorry if my english isn't perfect
 
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Ocean Man

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Hi Levin, welcome to the forum and glad to have you hear.

But please...
I'm about to drop out of school, I just can't listen to this shit that my teachers tell me in school...
finish school. You're only 15, this isn't college, this is the most basic to complete. It's already hard enough without a high school diploma, just finish up the last three years and get the high school diploma. College is another story. But just don't skip out on high school, time will fly by. Build something while you're attending school.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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Hey little dude. Welcome to the forum. Please, stop using emojis. They make ppl older than 20 twitchy.

If you’d like, will you explain Switzerland’s schooling system better? We want to make sure you have a solid grasp of what you’ll be losing before you give up on school.

Most of the forum is from America but we have ppl joining every day from all over the world. We’re not familiar with how you can have the “highest” degree in nine years.

How are you making an income?
 

Walter Hay

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@Levin, I am going against the majority opinion in this thread, but I know what you are planning can be done, because I have done it, although my circumstances were very different to yours. You can read my story here: FEATURED USER Walter Hay, Imp/Export Extraordinaire (Vandalay Industries)

I had to drop out of High School at about your age, due to poverty. Like you, I was always thinking about ways to improve my lot in life. Like you I had the intelligence to do things beyond what my age would suggest.

For me it was a difficult struggle, but largely, the secret to my success was that I never gave up.

From reading your posts I get the distinct impression that you can succeed in life without a formal education. I hope I am not leading you astray, but I agree with @Kak:

The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.
Whatever you choose to do, you have come to the right place to discuss it and fine tune your ideas. On this amazing forum you will find help, support, and criticism. Just keep in mind that the criticism will be constructive and not intended to hurt you.

Best Wishes,
Walter
EDIT: P.S. But I think you are tough enough to take it anyway.
 
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Levin

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Hey little dude. Welcome to the forum. Please, stop using emojis. They make ppl older than 20 twitchy.

If you’d like, will you explain Switzerland’s schooling system better? We want to make sure you have a solid grasp of what you’ll be losing before you give up on school.

Most of the forum is from America but we have ppl joining every day from all over the world. We’re not familiar with how you can have the “highest” degree in nine years.

How are you making an income?


Hey @Primeperiwinkle
Sure, I'll shortly explain that.
We have a kind of basic school, duration 6 years.
There I graduated with almost maximum grades.
Then there are 3 levels, let's say low, medium and high.
I have been in the high one for 2 years, then even moved to a special gymnasium for the last year of mandatory school.
Now, like I said, in Switzerland, we have one of the best social care systems, so homeless people basically don't exist.
And I really overthought many many times and also my parents did...
Now I'm at a point where I feel ready!
And I really know what I do, in my free time I work EVERY MINUTE on my business activities!
So, to your last question, my income is from my stock portfolio (not that much, but will grow) and from other partnerships (I manage asset of my grandparents and parents and take a fee for it)...
And the main income stream is a business in the Print on demand sector, there I sell T-Shirts and stuff on platforms like Spreadshirt, Redbubble, etc.

Thank you for taking care of me hehe.
Levin
 
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Kak

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Hey @Primeperiwinkle
Sure, I'll shortly explain that.
We have a kind of basic school, duration 6 years.
There I graduated with almost maximum grades.
Then there are 3 levels, let's say low, medium and high.
I have been in the high one for 2 years, then even moved to a special gymnasium for the last year of mandatory school.
Now, like I said, in Switzerland, we have one of the best social care systems, so homeless people basically don't exist.
And I really overthought many many times and also my parents did...
Now I'm at a point where I feel ready!
And I really know what I do, in my free time I work EVERY MINUTE on my business activities!
So, to your last question, my income is from my stock portfolio (not that much, but will grow) and from other partnerships (I manage asset of my grandparents and parents and take a fee for it)...
And the main income stream is a business in the Print on demand sector, there I sell T-Shirts and stuff on platforms like Spreadshirt, Redbubble, etc.

Thank you for taking care of me hehe.
Levin

The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.

Love this!
 
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G-Man

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OP, I have no input on this major life choice you're trying to make, and if I did, remember a couple things:

  1. I'm a stranger on the internet.
  2. I may be a numbskull
  3. I know nothing about you, your strengths and weaknesses, or your situation
  4. I have no skin in the game on the outcome
  5. I may make my own life choices using totally unreliable methods like tarot cards, magic eight balls, palm readers, televangelists, or daytime talk tv

Just think through what you're supposed to do, and maybe talk to someone that knows you and cares about you IRL, even if you decide not to follow their advice.
 

Ocean Man

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Levin,

I’m on your side. I had a similar path. I ended with three years of University, but I did leave school for awhile at 16.

What did I learn? High school was unimportant and University was only good to prove to myself that I could do it. I could have left after a year with the same satisfaction.

What was my most sobering lesson later on? Entrepreneurs do not require education, but VC and Grant money is often controlled by education. You’re unlikely to receive business loans, grants or capital investments without more school.

To further expand on this. I live in South Korea, you can't do anything here without a minimum of a bachelor's degree. Think about this if you ever plan to go abroad. It's not like that in all countries, but without a bachelor's degree here, I'm having to jump through a lot of hoops and I'm breaking down a lot of walls. I can't imagine how unnecessarily difficult it would be without even a full high school education.
 

ZF Lee

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I can't imagine how unnecessarily difficult it would be without even a full high school education.
In my country, if you didn't pass History and Malay (the national language), you wouldn't get the high school certificate and would be unable to even find a McDonalds' job.

I didn't find that a problem to even score decently, as the studying was manageable- I found interest in Malay literature and even a bit of Islamic history. But even then the markers have always tried to pull down the minimum grade thresholds for A, B, C and D grades, so I might never know whether the letter grade on my transcript was legit haha.

So, really, what the F*ck are those people thinking that tell me each and every day "HEY LEVIN, you're too young and the thing you wanna do is too risky!"
Well, from the top of my head, project management, accounting and communicative/leadership skills would be great for business.

Sure, you might not pick them up in the classroom, but if your school had lots of clubs and societies for you to join, and learn up skills, it would be useful to build up basics.

If you haven't been a regular attendee to at least some of these extra activities, well, of course people see the lack of track record, and have their doubts.

For project management and accounting though, I needed a few college classes to truly understand how they worked together- and especially how the finance world works (important for getting into the minds of future investors). Online courses somehow just confused me.

I'm about to drop out of school, I just can't listen to this shit that my teachers tell me in school...
May sound a bit radical, but look, what have I to loose?
I almost dropped out of normal high school to become home-schooled, as my mum was disgusted at the crap of the high school system.

But when I looked at the home school she was pointing out to, it didn't feel like a very good place. Didn't have as many students to help out in co-curriculum clubs, to mingle with. Even the teachers themselves were too green to be even seen as reverse-role models.

So it took some pushing for her to drop the idea.

The last two years of my high school life were awesome.
-Got involved in a school-wide theatre performance, doing lots of stuff from publicity photography, to acting and band.

-Ramped up my senior year serving in the Drill section for the Boys' Brigade.

-Somehow started talking more to my girl, which eventually formed a baseline for my later FTE.
I didn't intend to have a relationship with her...it just eventually melted in when she saw how I was always getting 'into the fray'.

Had I left school, I would have missed A LOT.
So I don't think high school is that bullshit. You just have to find your resources and activities within school itself.

I had 1-2 teachers who were not formally trained as educators, but they had lots of 'school of hard knocks' experiences that made them kick-a$$ folks. I could write a thread on them lol!

But if you are still harping on dropping out, there's much the folks here can say, but probably a very important thing to do is to find a networking base.

Local, not just online. Face-to-face.


It can be a regular meetup.com group, a workplace ministry group (I'm attending one such soft opening soon in my city), or just a whatsapp group....a local group of people who are great in their industry, who have faced against adversity one way or another, and have sound moral values.

You don't need to mention your education unless asked, but you need to have a dominant skill to offer to the group.

Since you have mentioned lots of activities you are doing, that shouldn't be a problem.

Go find 1-2 people in the group that stand out, follow-up with simple offers to help with what you can, ask them how/who they are, and just get to know more about them.

Make friends, simply.

I've used this approach not as a high-school dropout, but as a 21-year-old guy going to meetups populated by late 30-50 year-olds men'. Very sharp age difference, and eyebrows raised and comments exchanged, but it was fine.
 
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NickP

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I am 17 from USA. I am a freshman at university. I had similar thoughts to you, and man am I happy that I did not actualize them. Complete your basic schooling. I don't know what that consists of in Switzerland, but do all the schooling you can for free. Whatever you plan on pursuing can, without a shadow of a doubt, be pursued while you're in school. What are you doing at 15 that takes this much time? What qualifications, knowledge, or work is there?
 

Abrodos

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Hi @Levin, it's really good to be so focused at such a young age. The younger you start learning, the higher your chances are of being able to retire at a younger age than most.

Not sure about your position about the social care system. I think you rely too much on it, and this might hinder your development as an entrepreneur.
Sometimes this "gift" (money from your parents, a good healthcare system, this "house and 600$ for free" policy) can leave you with no incentive to work hard. Also it can make you feel like "you're cheating", so, sometimes, some gifts (even the ones given with the best intentions) can be poisoned apples.
That's been happening to me since I was 20, and that's why my first 10 years of entrepreneurship have been so low-yelding. I've been focused in other projects (non-profit organizations), socializing too much, investing my time in low-yelding artistic endeavours, or just lazying around.
Keep in mind that if you survive the hardest conditions that means you will grow a lot when things get better.

Also, regarding investing portfolios, if you have never had a big money loss, keep in mind that it will eventually come, and the more confident you are in your abilities, the bigger the hit will be.

And last, in regards to the school dropping ideas, keep in mind that all the knowledge, self-development, money from others you manage, are not real indicators of how you're doing.
The only real indicator is "how much money I'm making monthly with my business".
When your business income is half of a normal salary, you can quit half the hours of your scripted job. When you make a full salary, you can dedicate full time and quit your job.
So I'd reccommend not quitting high school and developing your business during after school hours. As I said, learning to work in hard conditions, long hours, is essential to your development as an entrepreneur.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm doing good with my business but I'm not a Fastlaner yet.

Hope you skyrocket! Do everything you can. 15 years is a huge advantage, get the most out of it.

PS:Your post has left me thinking about moving to Switzerland :)
David
 

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If I do all schooling for free possible, I can study for the next 10 years hehe...

I'd happily go with that!

Truth is, you look like you've already made your mind so it's no use for us to try and convince you to do otherwise.

I do think you're being reckless, but I still wish you luck and success! ❤️
 

Levin

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Hi @Levin, it's really good to be so focused at such a young age. The younger you start learning, the higher your chances are of being able to retire at a younger age than most.

Not sure about your position about the social care system. I think you rely too much on it, and this might hinder your development as an entrepreneur.
Sometimes this "gift" (money from your parents, a good healthcare system, this "house and 600$ for free" policy) can leave you with no incentive to work hard. Also it can make you feel like "you're cheating", so, sometimes, some gifts (even the ones given with the best intentions) can be poisoned apples.
That's been happening to me since I was 20, and that's why my first 10 years of entrepreneurship have been so low-yelding. I've been focused in other projects (non-profit organizations), socializing too much, investing my time in low-yelding artistic endeavours, or just lazying around.
Keep in mind that if you survive the hardest conditions that means you will grow a lot when things get better.

Also, regarding investing portfolios, if you have never had a big money loss, keep in mind that it will eventually come, and the more confident you are in your abilities, the bigger the hit will be.

And last, in regards to the school dropping ideas, keep in mind that all the knowledge, self-development, money from others you manage, are not real indicators of how you're doing.
The only real indicator is "how much money I'm making monthly with my business".
When your business income is half of a normal salary, you can quit half the hours of your scripted job. When you make a full salary, you can dedicate full time and quit your job.
So I'd reccommend not quitting high school and developing your business during after school hours. As I said, learning to work in hard conditions, long hours, is essential to your development as an entrepreneur.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm doing good with my business but I'm not a Fastlaner yet.

Hope you skyrocket! Do everything you can. 15 years is a huge advantage, get the most out of it.

PS:Your post has left me thinking about moving to Switzerland :)
David

Hey @Abrodos
I really appreciate comments like yours! This is real advice!
The social care system is just plan D, so the last one if EVERYTHING fails (what basically can happen, but I don't think so)
I'm "hustling" now for over a year, I use every free minute for my plans, so I would say I really have the commitment. (I'm absolutely ready to work 14 hour days!)

The one with the stock portfolio, that's absolutely right! I've been investing in stocks since my 14th birthday (so almost 2 years) which isn't much, but I really investigated with the risks. And in the "mini recession" forth quarter of 2018, I saw my portfolio with a loss of 30 percent. I didn't care about that, cause I always knew I can't invest more money than I'm ready to loose. So I bought more during the mini recession and 3 months later I had a plus of 20 percent. I'd say I know how to deal with a financial crisis, and the next big one will come soon I think (speculation haha)

I calculated my minimum living costs and added 20 percent for safety. So I can easily live with 1300 swiss francs a month. And until I'm 19, I know I'm able to earn that amount per month, if I'm not, I have my plans B, C and D :)

Thanks a lot for your comment!
 

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How is the Swiss welfare state is funded, do you know? Is it off of income taxes from people who are working in regular jobs?

I suggest making a serious study of the business you go into, while experimenting with it. Study successful brands in the wild. Read any related threads you can find here in the forum. Read business books and talk to people who've done similar things to what you want to do. Keep in mind that you are competing for people's attention and their resources. It's good to have fun with it, but put the serious work in too. Your 20, 30, and 40 year old selves will thank you.
 

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Levin,

I’m on your side. I had a similar path. I ended with three years of University, but I did leave school for awhile at 16.

What did I learn? High school was unimportant and University was only good to prove to myself that I could do it. I could have left after a year with the same satisfaction.

What was my most sobering lesson later on? Entrepreneurs do not require education, but VC and Grant money is often controlled by education. You’re unlikely to receive business loans, grants or capital investments without more school.
 
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In your heart
I have a "Mentor" who's earning about 15K a month with that.

How did you find him? Are you sure he is legit? Is he a POD guru like Kevin David?
Are you paying for his mentorship?

If I directly start with paid traffic, I'm likely going to waste a lot of money.

If you are going on organic route, you are going to waste lots of time.

First, start with some designs, Do it yourself to keep costs low (get inspiration from popular sellers in Merch, etc) send traffic to each individual product page and see which design converts most(If you know what I mean). Ditch the rest. Rinse and repeat. When you have 10 designs that you're sure will sell, go find a manufacturer.

I asked you to put logos in the neck only during mass production. Costs should be low then. You see we are creating a brand. If you are doing this as a hobby then the logo is not necessary.For building a solid business you've to think long term.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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He’s a guru. Sorry little dude. Trust us on this. You seem like you’re definitely smart enough to go far and you’re trusting your gut - which every leader HAS to know how to do.

As for the t-shirts you can photoshop the designs on a pic and put them on fb and see what sells then order those designs. Super simple low cost way of doing it.
The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.

Love this!

I like him too. The second he dropped the emojis and started explaining himself he did really well but I don’t know if dropping out entirely will be best. I have a feeling he might really enjoy being in some clubs like ZF Lee said. Anyhoo, he seems like a very cool little dude.
 

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Hey Man

it's all really impressive.

The only thing I can suggest is to have close relatives/friends supporting you. And not even financially, but mentally. It can become tough and it is important to have support.

How do your parents feel about it?

Are you living with them? etc etc

Btw at your age the advantage is nobody expects from you to earn an adult salary and parents will support you...

---------------------------------------------

You shouldn't worry about formal education unless you want a path that everyone takes. And if you need a piece of paper to get you somewhere, you can always buy it, by hiring a person that has it or by just buying a diploma.

Not once in my life have I been asked to show my college diploma, or even secondary school, in a business situation. But I have been assessed by the value I can add and my professionalism (the way I present myself e.g. communicate). You will learn it faster and better in business situations. Most probably, if you are in a public school, you will learn how to memorise stuff and things that are counterproductive in business. Also Mon-Fri, 9-5 routines which are detrimental.

Swiss passport is really powerful and you can change countries as you wish (probably). Travel and meet people... You probably know 4 languages? German, French, Italian, English?

--------------------------------

If your parents are supporting your ideas then don't even hesitate. I love your attitude.
 
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Levin

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@Levin, I am going against the majority opinion in this thread, but I know what you are planning can be done, because I have done it, although my circumstances were very different to yours. You can read my story here: FEATURED USER Walter Hay, Imp/Export Extraordinaire (Vandalay Industries)

I had to drop out of High School at about your age, due to poverty. Like you, I was always thinking about ways to improve my lot in life. Like you I had the intelligence to do things beyond what my age would suggest.

For me it was a difficult struggle, but largely, the secret to my success was that I never gave up.

From reading your posts I get the distinct impression that you can succeed in life without a formal education. I hope I am not leading you astray, but I agree with @Kak:


Whatever you choose to do, you have come to the right place to discuss it and fine tune your ideas. On this amazing forum you will find help, support, and criticism. Just keep in mind that the criticism will be constructive and not intended to hurt you.

Best Wishes,
Walter
EDIT: P.S. But I think you are tough enough to take it anyway.


@Walter Hay
Impressive story.
I also recognised that this forum is a great opportunity to network.
Thanks for your comment!
 
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RazorCut

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Oh to be 15 again with the confidence that I know it all. lol (the older you get the more you realise how little you know)

I'm sure you will succeed in life @Levin, just don't let failures knock your confidence. Better to realise that failure is just feedback by another name. Never be ashamed to fail. In fact be ashamed if you don't because if you don't have any failures it just shows you are not pushing hard enough. Failures shows you where the boundaries lay. Feedback, both positive and negative are vital barometers for any business.

You are young, have the support of your family and and also have a great safety net in place. An ideal time to work hard at building your future on your own terms.

Just remember education doesn't stop when you leave school. Every day is a school day for all of us.
 

kkoasdfawfqwe2

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Wow, I’m insanely impressed! I don’t get whats up with the bit condescending vibe I feel from many comments here, but you don’t seem to take note of that, which is good!

The best advice I can give you, which I would have loved to give myself when I started in business, is:

Be careful who you take advice from.
- Did they achieve anything in regards to what they are preaching or informing you about?

- What is their interest in helping you? (Do you pay them, do they want to sell to you, are they your enemy?)


Its the best advice I can possibly give you at your given age - it seems like you got most of it under control! ;)
 
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Levin

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Hi Levin, welcome to the forum and glad to have you hear.

But please...

finish school. You're only 15, this isn't college, this is the most basic to complete. It's already hard enough without a high school diploma, just finish up the last three years and get the high school diploma. College is another story. But just don't skip out on high school, time will fly by. Build something while you're attending school.

Hey @Ocean Man :praise:
I know what you mean and I really understand!
I have finished school:thumbsup:
Here in Switzerland we have 9 years of school that we MUST absolve...
And I have the highest degree possible from this nine years:clap::
I have been building things since my 14th birthday... (So a have already a small income)
And yes, time will fly by, but I have an option A, B, C and D...
And here in Switzerland it really isn't risky at all:thumbsup:
Thanks for your answer, really appreciate it!
 
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Levin

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Hey Levin! Welcome to TFLF :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you wrote I understand that you have finished mandatory school, but not high school, right?

I'm from Italy, and here you must go to school until you are 16 (compulsory schooling) no matter what grade you're in.

If it's the same in Switzerland, then I'd suggest you keep going to school until you finish high school and get your diploma. You would miss out on a lot of opportunities and experiences that you can have only during that period of your life. And I know that it sounds like a waste of time, but believe me, it's not!

If it's not the same, do you mind explaining to us what happens after the 2-year high school? What are the possibilities, other than dropping out and work? :)


Hey @Tullygetsfree
Here in Switzerland, you can easily start working with 15, after your 9 year school experience, so if I wanted, I could go working, just the first 3 years I wouldn't earn much (about 1200 Swiss Francs per month), but that would be enough for me.
Like I said, I'm ready to live far below my means if i have to.
And I don't COMPLETLY drop out, I still would visit some english and computer science...
And also the social care system is one ob the best ( they give you about 600 Swiss francs plus an appartment for free)
 
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Levin

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Hi kid.

What are you going to start?

Do you have any idea?


Hey @Vairavan
Sure I have an idea
1. continuing investing at the stock market
2. continuing and expanding my partnerships where I manage other peoples money for a fee
3. scale my print on demand business on platforms like amazon, shopify, Redbubble and so on
 

YoungnBroke

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@YoungnBroke
How old are you? (if I may ask)
As I said, I have plan B,C, and D if everything fails...
Here in Switzerland it's not that bad if you haven't a job...
Yeah, the one with the emojis, like you see, I'm negatively affected by toxic classmates:) (removed them from the post now, thanks for the info)
I am 16.
And I think in switzerland you have a similiar system like we have in austria.
Maybe I just want to finish my school because the pressure of society here is really strong. If you have alternative plans I think it's good to 100% focus on your enterpreunership if it's easy with the law, because that is one of the biggest problems for me.
 
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Levin

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I am 16.
And I think in switzerland you have a similiar system like we have in austria.
Maybe I just want to finish my school because the pressure of society here is really strong. If you have alternative plans I think it's good to 100% focus on your enterpreunership if it's easy with the law, because that is one of the biggest problems for me.


@YoungnBroke
Also du sprichst Deutsch? hehe
Yeah, pressure of society I also feel...
But I have to do it no matter what... I don't let me stop by some random people...
I really know the risks and so on but for me I know it's the right decision.
 
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Levin

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I'd happily go with that!

Truth is, you look like you've already made your mind so it's no use for us to try and convince you to do otherwise.

I do think you're being reckless, but I still wish you luck and success! ❤

@Tullygetsfree
You're right. I'll let you know about my progress or failure hehe
Thank you for your engagement!
 
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D

Deleted72597

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Welcome to the forums, Levin!
Take my words with a pinch of salt as I am very likely to have less success in the ways of numbers on a paper and dollar bills in my pocket than lots of other members of this forum. You seem like a kid with potential, someone who's not taking decisions lightly or being prone to giving up, someone who is also realistic. I think you're just the kind of kid who might just pull off quitting / down prioritizing school.

Make school fit in with your Fastlane journey instead of quitting.

Read or listen to audiobooks about people's journeys towards success. I believe it is very important for you to specifically focus on the "rough patches" in the stories because dealing with the hard times, setbacks and perceived failure and staying faithful to the journey are some of the hardest things to do with limited life experience.

And the main income stream is a business in the Print on-demand sector, there I sell T-Shirts and stuff on platforms like Spreadshirt, Redbubble, etc.

I am planning a business in the same "field" and will consider (not giving promises) working with you / brainstorming / mentoring / possibly collaborating etc. Send me a message if interested.
 

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