Having Children...Pros and Cons?

[csalvato]

If you aren’t responsible enough to feed a goldfish or water a plant every day, don’t have kids.

I'm one of those people who killed every plant I ever had, and every pet

That's why I married someone who is a super nurturer as her super power.

 

[Voice Angel]

I never thought I’d have kids. Well I was told by my doc in my 20s that it would be almost impossible.

2 kids later and yes it changes everything.

There are certain things I can’t do now that I have kids. But when I think about it, I’m not sure that I’d want to do them anyway anymore.

What I’m able to do – I can do, for the most part.

If anything, I’d say the “day job” is far more restrictive than having children. So that’s what I’d strive to move away from.

As for the realities of having kids.

It’s the most confounding, confusing, stressful, challenging, enjoyable, meaningful and joyful experience I’ve ever had.

There is nothing better in my life than hugging and kissing them. And having conversations with them.

I’m astounded every day at the things they come up with, the ways they see the world and life.

In the end, it’s really a choice for anyone debating it.

And sometimes, it’s a phase - something you choose to experience a bit later.


My husband swore that he’d never get married or want kids - up until 6 months before we married (haha!)

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hi, I'm 19 and I'm way too young to give an answer. But I thought this is a very interesting thread that makes me want to ask,

How old do you guys think is too old for a man to bear children?

Men don't bear children.

 

[Antifragile]

Most parents I know are exhausted. How am I going to meet my Fastlane goals on no sleep?

With that kind of thinking, I’m not sure you’ll ever go Fastlane. Hate to be the one to tell you this… but becoming an entrepreneur isn’t easy. You can expect to be exhausted from starting and running a business! And kids or no kids, success in going fastlane is first about mindset. Do you have what it takes?

If I can figure out a Fastlane within the next 7 years, hopefully my wife will still be good to go.

Here is an excellent perspective:

Having kids and pursuing your dreams aren't mutually exclusive. If kids + a business is your dream, then that's worth pursuing and figuring it out. The question isn't "are children the right choice?", it's "do I want children?"

While a family is a "consumption accelerator", they are also a "motivation accelerator" too. Once that kid is placed in your arms for the first time, you realize that you're now working for something far greater than yourself.

We often hear how kids and a family hamper progress but we somehow filter out all the highly successful people who say their kids were a driver for their success.

Statistically speaking, a vast majority of billionaires have a spouse and kids. If they can make it work, so can you. Do you want to?

 

[Kak]

Because I worry that I (for all my smarts) may be not enough.

But you are. You are one of the most intelligent people I know.

You + Your Wife + A Good Cirriculum That YOU Choose + Some Kind of Sport or Other Social Activity

That formula will far exceed, in less amount of time, with less emotional F*ckery, anything a public or private school will teach your kid.

The question is do you want smarter kids? Because homeschool is the winner by a LOT in that regard.

Or, do you want silver spoon connections at the expense of learning. <This used to be me, but I’ve come around.

Don't give your kids the following out of your own insecurity.

 

[Johnny boy]

The guy said no condescending responses... lol

I am younger and don’t have kids so I shouldn’t answer this. Someone with a family should. I suspect they’ll say go for it.

Consider the fact that almost every billionaire is married and has children - obviously it’s not going to make you a failure or something.

That being said, I sure as hell ain’t ready for that. It’s a highly individual decision.

if being called mediocre is condescending and taken as an insult then don't have kids before you're successful.

 

[Tom H.]

Having a wife or fiance is also extremely difficult, maybe more difficult than having a kid... I can't imagine going through all of the struggle of having a wife and then NOT having kids.

Also, yes, anyone can have kids (kind of), but it works both ways, anyone can remain childless.

Ultimately, nothing is satisfying and nothing matters. If you're really looking for satisfaction, go learn insight meditation. Kids won't fix things, traveling won't fix things, money won't fix things. Given that, I do see starting a family as a more skillful choice with greater benefits, and more in line with our nature as mammals.

I don't see starting a family as selfish at all, it's the opposite. You're giving another human being the chance to exist and spending your time and energy helping them do a better job of it than you did. You're giving your parents a grandchild. You're contributing to the stability of your society.

After having my child, I realized that is some level the whole point of my life was to create grandchildren for my mom. Now my son has the same obligation.. with all the bullshit he puts me through and will put me through, he better produce some grandkids ASAP.

 

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[Ing]

Havin kids is like having a business: it requires skills.
Which some have and some don’t.

A friend of mine someday said, when he meets a woman, he never knows if she loves me or my money. So maybe having a woman before growing rich is an advantage.
In case of the children its point, wheather you get the skills to educate them right.
Mine are in the low 20 s now and they are not only family,but very good friends.
The genes are similar. So is the way of thinking. Thats a great aspect imo.

So, when you want to have children, it will never hold you back from building a business and become successful.
Sure they cost a lot of money, too. But the only thing here I regret is, that they won’t have the kick to make money as hard as they would , when they were born poor. Perhaps.
The problem sure is, that when I go dirtbike riding now while my riding buddy is studying, I have to pay everything twice! 2 bikes, 2 gears, 2 beds, 2... but hell, thats what for I m working.

With my 2 kids I had not one single holiday I didn’t go to. You can go everywhere with kids! They are dooropeners often.

And the point of investment? I think kids are a investment, too. You will be payed of at the end.
But with a business, you can fail 20 times until one will be good.
With kids you have to set up the skillset so good, that you don’t fail.

Summary: Being an entrepreneur is easier than being parents, but one doesn’t exclude The other. But you yourself must decide, what you want!

 

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[Mutant]

Reminds me of a story on Humans of New York:

“My wife and I were eating at a rib joint in Key Largo, and we actually took out a piece of paper and made a pros and cons list. The ‘con’ list was pretty normal: time, money, things like that. I remember at the top of the ‘pro’ list was: ‘Full Human Experience.’ After our daughter was born, that became an inside joke with us. Every time she was screaming at bath time, my wife and I would look at each other and say: ‘Full Human Experience.’ The first three months were the hardest. Honestly, we wondered if we’d made a mistake. It was like a bomb dropped and eviscerated everything in our lives. But then our daughter started growing up, and learning to do things on her own, and we kept taking small steps back and getting more of our own time back. There’s an unexpected sadness to getting your life back. It’s like your getting laid off slowly from an equally grueling but joyful job. She’s ten now. And I’ll notice that she’ll be reading alone for an hour without getting bored and jumping on me. We used to make tents on the bed, now it’s more homework and YouTube. Sometimes she’ll go in her room for a long time and close the door. Her life is becoming hers and I’m fascinated by where it’s going to go. But it’s bittersweet that she needs me less and less.”

Humans of New York

 

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[CaptainAmerica]

Finally, a question I am qualified to answer! I’m in my 50s, and I have seven children.

The decision to have children or not is deeply personal, and doesn’t involve just pros and cons.

I’ll tell you what I wish someone had told me: What are your key values? What are the hills you’re willing to die on? Most importantly, are you and your wife in agreement with those values? If having children enhances those values, then the balance swings in that direction.

Try it: sit down with your wife and each of you write your top five values, in order. Share them, talk about them, see where children might fit in there, or not. Imagine being old man, looking back on your awesome life; are there children there?

 

[xmartel]

Great discussion here.
From what I've read here and seen from people around me:
- mainly ambitious people / entrepreneurs think about having kids in such a rational way, for many other people it's just an emotional decision.
- even though it's hard, once people have kids, they don't regret it

My question to the people here who've been able to run a business successfully while having kids: would you say you or your partner took on the majority of the tasks that come with having kids / running a houshold?
The reason I ask: My wife works as a strategy consultant and I run a scale-up so we both do crazy hours. Even if we 'buy' extensive help like an au-pair, I think the impact on our carreers will be huge and it would be a challenge combining the 2.

I think you're right on those 2 points.

My wife does take on more of the tasks with the kids, but she's also still very heavily involved and integral to the business.

It is a challenge combining kids with an entrepreneurial life, but it's still very doable if you're intentional about how you structure your time.

You'd be surprised how much time you waste doing unnecessary tasks, not just in your personal life but also in your business. Find those, cut them out. Get ruthless with how efficiently you use your time and you'll be surprised how much you can get done in a day, and that includes being able to spend quality family time.

When you're running a business, you always have a list of important to-do's. You have to accept that that list will never get done, you can't say "I'll spend time with my kids and wife once I'm done all this stuff I have to do" It'll never happen.
You have to be intentional about just stopping work, ever for just an hour or two here and there, and spend time with your family. The work will still be there when you get back, and you'll find that nothing negative really came from it business-wise. I used to think that things would fall apart if I didn't stay working on all the important to-do's constantly. But that's just not true.

There's also a huge mental/joy/motivation boost you get from spending time with your kids and wife that has benefits to your business that are hard to put a dollar amount on, but it does drive you to greater success in the end in my opinion.

You also need to be fine with sleeping less. Get up early, and you can get quite a few solid hours in before the kids are up. I usually get up at 5am, and go to bed around 10:30-11:30. I'm a night owl and naturally don't get up early. It was work training myself, but the benefits have been huge.

A lot comes down to how you raise your kids. If you raise them to be whiny, lazy, brats, then they'll require a lot more hours of work.
But if you raise them to be independent, responsible, respectful etc. They aren't that much work and can take care of themselves.
When my wife and I are both working, our kids just play all day by themselves, and when they're hungry my 8 year old will make them sandwiches or cook macaroni.

In order to have them be this responsible, you have to teach them how to work. You can't do everything for them. Yes, it's much easier to just clean their room, and do their laundry for them. They tend to make a mess of things when they're first learning. But it doesn't take long before they can do things on their own, and then that's not only freed up more of your time, but it's also teaching them life skills that will benefit them forever.

They also grow up pretty fast, it's not very long they're like leeches. From an early age you can even involve them in your business. I take my kids to meetings and job sites sometimes. Not only do I have to in order to make things work, but I also want to because I love my kids being exposed to business first hand.
Along with that, at age 4 we start allowance, and they invest their money in our projects. They watch things progress, and then they get their return. They're then exited to turn around and invest their money again.

The journey isn't easy, but it is 100% worth it. The joy I have in my soul, just looking at my kids, or even just thinking about them, is something you won't understand until you have them.

I've lived without kids, and I've lived with kids. I'll take kids every time.

Also, for the guy that said he has more freedom because he gets to travel.
There's nothing stopping you from travelling with kids. Right from when our first was a newborn, we've done 5,000 mile road trips, taken Mexican vacations, etc. etc. Lots of people say we're crazy when we tell them the next vacation we're planning with our kids, but it makes the experience so much more rich being able to share it with your kids.
It's really not that hard to travel extensively with kids, especially if you've raised them properly so they aren't a nightmare when you take them places.

 

[Sean Marshall]

we have a vision of a beautiful family and family culture etc. On the other hand, friends are warning that we'd be giving up our lives to take care of another human etc.

Yeah, having a kid isn't like getting a dog. A dog lasts 10-15 years. A kid? Committed for life! Well, at least if you plan on being a good parent.

My wife and I started our business in 2010 when we had a 3 yr old and a 1 yr old. Two years later, we had another kid and then we moved to Cozumel, Mexico. For the last 8 years of our life, we've lived internationally and all paid for by the business.

We didn't give up our lives for our kids - we just brought them with us!

The childbearing years thing is real though. You can always start another business at whatever age. But there's a ticking clock to having a happy healthy child and just plain being healthy yourself.

If you're growing a business correctly, you can quickly get on top of it and have plenty of money AND plenty of time to be an active parent.

Just a couple of hours ago, I got back from a walk with my wife and our oldest kid asked me if I even work. I laughed but that's kind of the point. I worked super hard 10 years ago, when she was young, so that I don't have to work as hard now.

And for the record, tomorrow, I'm not working. I'm taking my two oldest kids surfing. So I'm not giving up my life by having kids, I've added to it.

ALL of the above is purely opinion and suuuuuper subjective. If you feel you want to have kids, don't let a business stand in the way of that. Instead, let it be the driving motivation to force you to make it work. BUT, it's entirely up to you two.

Hope that helps!

 

[Marigold]

I have two children, 8 and 6. The first few years were the most challenging and painful years of my whole life. Lack of sleep, mainly.

My heart absolutely bursts every day with love for my children. I wish I'd had 10 of them. I home school both of them.

Start young, have many. Best thing you'll ever do in your whole life.

Be committed to your partner tho!

 

[Marigold]

I had five(by C-section) and adopted two. The youngest is my avatar. We are nowhere near rich, but these kids are the reason Iam on a mad quest for the fast lane. Their future prosperity is my drive as I don't want to have them grinding it out on the slow lane like I am doing.

We are actually happy that they are our biggest investment. They are now at a point where some can relieve me of house chores, while others participate in activities on the farm over the holidays.

The seven of them bring variety and colour to our interactions.

I plan to introduce them to this forum at the right ages .So MJ, followers are loading.

Do I have any regrets? Yes, that I can't have 1 more!

Same. I regret not having ten kids. I only had two and now I'm too old.

If I could go back in time I'd start at 20 and keep having as many as I could.

And I homeschool my kids. They're far from weird and they're super social. Weird comments in here suggesting the only place kids hang out with other kids is school.

Trying to convey what it's like to have children to someone who doesn't is like trying to describe the taste of something someone has never tasted. You have to experience it for yourself.

 

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[Deleted74338]

Having children is selfish. This is totally my opinion. I personally would not want to bring a child into such a corrupt world, or what if they are born with some sort of disease. A big reason is that I have my own life that is way too short, I would not want to waste it by having kids. Many people seem to want kids because they want to fill a gap inside of them, but you have to already be happy, not search for happiness in something external like a kid. If I were to ever have kids, I'd adopt, because like this I'd help a child in need.

 

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[Thoelt53]

Do you ever wonder who you'll have to help you when you get old? I know it sounds a bit selfish, but it's a practical aspect of being elderly, that you need someone trustworthy to help. What are your thoughts on this?

Your kids aren’t born to take care of you in old age. While many children do just that, and which I will do for my parents, it’s certainly not a requirement and many elderly people are abandoned by their children. Probably for good reason, but sometimes it’s undeserved and is what it is. C’est la vie.

It would be insidious to have kids solely to care for you in old age. They are a blessing and an experience, just as life is.

As far as we know, this is it. We get one life. Do you want to experience it with children, or without?

I think that question just about sums it up. There is no wrong answer. Of course there are variables and circumstances involved, but assuming you’re in a position to raise children, that’s pretty much the sole question you need to ask yourself.

 

[SiuLung]

Interesting thread, I'm surprised that this topic wasn't discussed before on the forum (or maybe I missed it).

As someone who's 99% sure that I won't ever want kid, I want to give my opinion. The 1% uncertainty comes from me being in a long term relationship (almost 7 years, living together for 3-4 years) - she doesn't want kids right now but she will in the future.

My goal is not to prove anybody wrong, but just to give a different point of view.

Saying "it's expensive" is for losers, stop being poor. Saying "you're giving up your life" is also for losers, grow up and get over yourself.

If I didn't want a family life, I'd be a monk and meditate full-time. I can't see myself living in the world without a family. For what? For my ego? For pleasure? For narcissism?

Some people think the individual is the fundamental unit of society. Sadly, a lot of people today seem to think it's the state... but I believe that the family is the fundamental building block of society.

At the basic level, we need family to survive and our only real purpose is to procreate. People can argue whatever hippie bullshit they want against that, but it's the harsh reality of biology. So we are hard-wired to want children. Even though it's a completely insane thing to do, we keep doing it.

I believe you can lead a fulfilling life without children, but for most people, starting a family is a skillful thing to do. I thought my wife wouldn't be able to have a baby and I started exploring that life. I could do it and create meaning if I had to.

@ProcessPro I think you're smart to bring up this topic because family isn't something to take lightly, it's worth spending time learning and thinking about.

When you say "I can't see myself living in the world without a family", I think this perfectly sums it up. It's just a question of knowing what is your vision for your life, how you'd feel living this or that kind of life.

I feel like saying "our only real purpose is to procreate" is a bit narrow regarding our experience of life. Biologically, I agree with you.
But if you think about how our species evolved, and where we are from an evolutionary standpoint, I disagree.
I think that this was true when we were at the beginning of our history as a species: because there were so many threats out there (predators, diseases, etc.) and because there were so few of us, yes our most important purpose was to procreate.

But right now, we're more than enough on the planet. I'm not saying we should kill people, or totally stop making kids, but the truth is that it is not a necessity anymore.
Same for saying "at the basic level, we need family to survive". I don't think it's the case, not anymore at least. Yes, we still need someone to take care of our basic needs until we come to an age where we are able to take care of our needs., and to provide fundamentals to make us a functioning adult.
What I think we can't survive without though, is a social network. We all need to have interactions with other people, some people less than others.

Imagine we you and your wife are in the 70s. Cannot walk or see things clearly, and need to visit the hospitals for regular check up.

It is always good to have someone to call to when you just accidentally had a fall.

I get to interact with a lot of old people in my industry/circle. The old cliche is still true. There are things that money can’t buy.

Having too much money in your 80s and having no choice but to leave it for your favorite charity or young helpers..is to some extend regretable.

Let me tell you the story of my grandfather. Had 10 children, had to remarry because my grandma died before him and there was some things he could not take care of (he was almost blind and diabetic).
When my grandmother died, the family exploded, and my grandfather had less visits from his children and grandchildren.
When he died, he left us some real estate. One of my uncle bought it, he distributed the money from the sale to the family and as it was not an expensive building, when you're dividing it by 10, you don't end up with a life-changing amount of money.
The building collapsed because of some construction site right next to it that did some damage to the structure. No way to recoup the money because insurance stated that the building was erected on a wobbly ground.
See, there's always some risk with about eveything, you just don't know it yet.
Keep in mind, I'm not stating you should avoid doing or trying anything because there's some risk involved.

I have a kid and I kick more a$$ than most of you and I'm fitter and better looking too. I'm selfish tho. I spend all day with my family, and all day doing what I want, including growing my income.

If you have a weak mind and you have a kid, you will still have a weak mind when the baby comes. Same goes for if you have a strong mind before/after.

If you don't have a kid and you choke on a McNugget, your kid won't save your life because you never had one. In that sense, they're an expensive long-term insurance policy.

Also, I don't plan to die ever and I'll go to any length to ensure my continued existence.

I laughed at your comment haha.
Seriously though, your comment hits close to home because I spent several months, even a couple of years to be honest, with a really weak state of mind. I'm just starting to bounce back.
And sometimes I'm wondering if me thinking I don't want kids is because I spent a long time in a bad mental state or if this is who I am.
Regarding choking hazard, well... thats a good point haha! But you could choke when your kid's at school (not that I want that to happen to you!)

I'm with my close friend @Lex DeVille on this.

At the end of the day, the most basic function of life is to continue your genetic lineage.

If you can't do that, then your lineage ends with you. This makes you a biological failure.

Your comment is similar to Tom H's. I think that saying "this makes you a biological failure" is true, but that this doesn't have as much weight as it used to.
As a species, I think we're way past the biological survival stage.
I can't remember where I read that, but someone said that what's important is not passing on our genes, but passing on our memes. Not in the sense that you have to feed pepe the frog pictures to kids at school, but that you have to pass knowledge and lessons your learnt to them.
Of course you can do that with your own kids. You can even do that by adopting, or even fostering.
You can even mentor kids.
This is not something new, but I think we're getting closer everyday to this way of thinking. You could see the scouts as an organization where adults would pass their memes to young people.
A lot of people work with children, either by helping them with their homework or their sports practice, and I think they feel as much pride doing this as if they were doing it for their own children.

Orcas (killer whales) are one of the most evolved mammals: they can recognize humans in water in order to not attack them - maybe they tried eating us a long time ago and came to the conclusion we were not edible. They also eat very specific parts of their preys, depending on their taste.
They live together in pods (similar to wolf packs). They procreate for survival, obviously, but children are taught hunting and stuff by the whole pod, not only the parents.

As soon as you have a kid, you'll understand the immense joy they bring and won't regret it. If you don't, you'll never fully understand what you missed, but will most likely come to regret not having that in your life once you get older and it's too late.

I don't think this is regret, regret comes when you want something and you can't have it due to external causes. You regret it and you suffer because you did not find the right partner or because you're unable to procreate for medical reasons.
In the case you're mentioning, I think it would just be what-ifs or seeing other people with a happy family and you thinking you could've had that too and wanting it for yourself. Granting your family would have turned out the same way obviously.
And I feel like voluntarily childfree people don't regret their choices usually, except for those who live very dull lives, without friends, hobbies, passion or purpose, or those that had this choice made for them.
Whatever our situation is, our goal is to make to most out of it.

To me, this was evidence that having and nurturing children is a unique human experience. One that I would feel like I was missing out on during my short 80-year trip around the sun.

I think that nurturing is not a unique human experience. I feel like the experience you're referring to is the bonding and unconditional love between you and your kids, this powerful yet invisible thread between you and them.
As humans, I think we're one of the few species where parents and children do not totally part ways when growing up, our parents don't become strangers once we hit 18 (unless you had an abusive household or other issues of that sort).
If I want to experience nurturing, I could take care of an injured animal or a puppy that's totally dependent on me. But experiencing that unique bond, I agree that only kids can provide that (a dog too if I'm honest, I mean look at them, some of them still love their human even if they're hitting them, we don't deserve dogs).

To sum it up, there's no right or wrong answer, it's not all black or white. You can be successful and have kids, and be a total failure without kids. The opposite is also true.
It all comes down to what you want in your life and making the most out of it.
Do you want to have kids? Awesome, now go and try to be the best parent you can and enjoy all the perks and experiences raising children will bring.
You don't want kids? Awesome too, now go and try to be the best childfree person you can, it has its perks and provides unique experiences too, enjoy them.
How do you see your day to day life? If you were 90 and about to die, how do you want your memories of your life to look like?
Personally, I don't hate kids, I think I would make a good father. But the life of a parent, right now, does not appeal to me and I don't know if it will ever do.

I'm curious to know @MJ DeMarco's point of view regarding kids. I remember reading in here (can't find the thread though) that he was in a relationship with a woman who has a teenager living with them at home (my memory can be faulty, sorry if this is not exact). Do you feel any regret MJ, or do you think you missed something by not having kids of your own?

 

[csalvato]

I think that nurturing is not a unique human experience. I feel like the experience you're referring to is the bonding and unconditional love between you and your kids, this powerful yet invisible thread between you and them.
As humans, I think we're one of the few species where parents and children do not totally part ways when growing up, our parents don't become strangers once we hit 18 (unless you had an abusive household or other issues of that sort).
If I want to experience nurturing, I could take care of an injured animal or a puppy that's totally dependent on me. But experiencing that unique bond, I agree that only kids can provide that (a dog too if I'm honest, I mean look at them, some of them still love their human even if they're hitting them, we don't deserve dogs).

That's a fine opinion to which you are entitled. My opinion differs, and that's OK.

After all, I did say this:

And, on the flip side, if the answer is "no", there's no shame in putting kids (or whatever it is) to the side.

In fact, if you really don't want to have kids and don't see the benefits and don't feel any negative feelings about not experiencing parenthood, please DON'T have kids.

That's a real travesty. I know people in this situation and I feel tremendous pity for their children, and for them.

Like, I have no desire to care for a snake, so if I went out and bought a snake that would be terrible for me and the snake.

I do think that, generally speaking, you can't possibly know what you're missing out on unless you try it. Not just parenting, but any human experience.

Unfortunately, there's no such thing as "trialing out" parenthood, which is why it's important know if you want it first. Then, if you do, don't let fear hold you back. Just like with anything else.

With respects to raising a dog or mentoring others as a substitute: I have 7 pets and a tank of fish, and mentor people through their careers. I can definitively say that pets and protégés are not even close to being a substitute for children in the human experience.

That doesn't mean children are worth it in their own right because they are unique - but one making this decision should know that the experience is distinctly unique. Anyone with kids (biological or adopted) would corroborate that. The only people who say they are the "same thing" are people without children.

 

[Mutant]

Crossing the road significantly increases your chances of dying, make an informed decision!

Just sharing something that is often NOT actually common knowledge that may help you or someone else in this thread.

 

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[GPM]

I have not read the rest of the replies, just the OP.

My wife and I married at 26. We got pregnant and had several miscarriages between about 28-31 which was incredibly difficult. It took us a long time to finally get pregnant and have it stay. We finally had a daughter who was born when we were 33, and a son when we were 35. We would have LOVED to have more than this, but we feel that to have another we would be older than we would want to be at this point. We are very happy with our two and they make life absolutely better.

Are they a big responsibility? Yes. Are they super frustrating at times? Yes. Do they take an absolute crap ton of time and do they ruin your sleep? Yes, yes and yes.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. They bring meaning, joy, and just heaping piles of love and laughter into the house. Our kids are only 18 months apart, we wanted them to be close so that they would grow up together doing the same things and playing together. Our son is now 9 months old and watching them play together is amazing. I can sit for hours and just watch them.

I want to build an empire and a legacy, and I want my children to be a part of growing this from a very young age. I always say that I want my daughter in a skirt and blazer or suit in meetings with me before she is 10. She is already a boss, I can't wait to see what she can do as she grows even more.

If I could do it all again I would. It would have been nice to have started at 30 rather than 33, but life plays the cards that it will and you just roll with what comes.

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Having children is selfish. This is totally my opinion. I personally would not want to bring a child into such a corrupt world, or what if they are born with some sort of disease. A big reason is that I have my own life that is way too short, I would not want to waste it by having kids. Many people seem to want kids because they want to fill a gap inside of them, but you have to already be happy, not search for happiness in something external like a kid. If I were to ever have kids, I'd adopt, because like this I'd help a child in need.

It sounds like YOU are the selfish one.

Having kids is not a zero sum game. Having kids is not "logical". You will never find an object or other lifeform that humans will so readily sacrifice their lives for.

Most parents would give up everything, move mountains, burn cities to the ground for their children. You will never find that kind of passion from business, money, sex, or fame.

When you have kids, YOU do not matter, you've taken on responsibility of LIFE and DEATH. It's not business, it's not quarterly P&L's or fast cars at stake, it's your legacy and DNA on line.

I would say life is too short to NOT have kids. To not experience the most inner core, bone shaking fear, excitement, joy, and accomplishment that being a human can give you is a shame.

BUT it's not for everyone. You do you.

 

[Thoelt53]

I'm your age, and the thought of you being married already frightens me.

No one can make this decision for you. It is for you alone to make. I think the main question you should ask yourself is "did I do everything I wanted to do in my life"

There are two reasons for that.

1. Kids eat your time away.
2. It is irresponsible to have kids and not take care of them. That's how people become criminals and it costs a lot to society.

To be fair, I think you are wayyyyyy too young to both being married (I wrote yesterday a 4000-words blog article about 18 reasons to never get married) and have kids.

I intend to have kids because it is the meaning of life, but not before I turn 50. It is because

1. I want to have time for them.
2. I want to be able to afford Harvard for the 6 of them if they want to, and holidays in 5 stars hotels in Singapore.

Children is a lifelong commitment. If you have them now, you'll have them forever.

To me, it's actually insane to have them before 40. But that's me. If you have a fastlane business and are happy with your life as it is, by all means, have kids.

You’re going to have 6 kids after age 50?

Good luck to you. You are in for quite a shock

 

[Antifragile]

I have a kid and I kick more a$$ than most of you and I'm fitter and better looking too. I'm selfish tho. I spend all day with my family, and all day doing what I want, including growing my income.

If you have a weak mind and you have a kid, you will still have a weak mind when the baby comes. Same goes for if you have a strong mind before/after.

If you don't have a kid and you choke on a McNugget, your kid won't save your life because you never had one. In that sense, they're an expensive long-term insurance policy.

Also, I don't plan to die ever and I'll go to any length to ensure my continued existence.

LOL.

And I’ll add, I’m happier because the amount of joy this little angel brings to my life is like nothing I ever expected.

People don’t rise to the occasion, we fall to the lowest level of preparation. Same with kids, if you were weak before kids - you’re F*cked after lol.

I had a vasectomy when I was 22. I'm 30 now and I'm super glad I did it.

It was one of the best decisions of my life. The peace of mind is so worth it.

I understand why people want to have children. I don't have an issue with that. But personally, I prefer a child-free life. I value my freedom way too much.

What is “freedom”? You sound like you are “selfish” but I think you aren’t selfish enough. I’m more selfish! I have a kid and the joy I experience daily can’t compare to some travel. I’m not worried about missing out on some little phantom pleasure like visiting another country. It’s a fleeting moment. Deep and lasting joy - that’s what I get. The grin on my face from my own kid… it’s so big it hurts.

Comparing your time with nieces and nephews is also wrong. Not your kiddo. Doesn’t give you same love back. You are a nobody there.

But, the good thing is this. If you are struggling with finding room for a kid in your life … it’s probably a good thing you don’t have one. You’d hate it. When it takes time away from something you want to do, you’d blame the kid and not your lack of strength and creativity. Like people who don’t realize you can get fitter with kids because kids are heavy. It’s nature’s way, isn’t it?

 

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[MTF]

What is “freedom”? You sound like you are “selfish” but I think you aren’t selfish enough. I’m more selfish! I have a kid and the joy I experience daily can’t compare to some travel. I’m not worried about missing out on some little phantom pleasure like visiting another country. It’s a fleeting moment. Deep and lasting joy - that’s what I get. The grin on my face from my own kid… it’s so big it hurts.

Comparing your time with nieces and nephews is also wrong. Not your kiddo. Doesn’t give you same love back. You are a nobody there.

But, the good thing is this. If you are struggling with finding room for a kid in your life … it’s probably a good thing you don’t have one. You’d hate it. When it takes time away from something you want to do, you’d blame the kid and not your lack of strength and creativity. Like people who don’t realize you can get fitter with kids because kids are heavy. It’s nature’s way, isn’t it?

I'm glad to hear you love being a parent. I love NOT being a parent.

As long as we don't force our opinions on each other, all is good in the world.

 

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[Vinnland]

there's immense value and learning in other perspectives

We just had a little girl. She is 8 months old. I knew that I always wanted to have a child though.

What I will say is this:

• Other people's perspectives are NOT worth learning because, in reality, it will be you, your wife and the kid day to day. Nobodies' perspectives will matter at that point.
• Kids are a distraction if you do not want them. It's okay to not want kids before you have them. After, well, that's a different story.
• I work from home, I have a home office. The sweetest sound is when I hear my kid smashing her spoon next door and laughing <3
• It's a somewhat permanent decision. 99% sure is not sure enough.

 

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[Antifragile]

This...

It is a choice...

Why do we do what we do? We are individuals, shaping our lives in the way WE want to. There is no cookie cutter life that we should all subscribe to.

Suggesting kids aren't worth for entrepreneurs it is prescribing a form of script.

Suggesting kids are a must is prescribing a form of script.

I myself want a big family. Since it is something I want, why would I sacrifice it on the alter of business? I am an entrepreneur so I can improve my life. I am improving my condition. Why sacrifice something else that would give me joy? How unscripted is it to forgo something that you want to do in life to avoid the responsibility?

If you want kids, do it. I truly believe responsibility is the foundation of greatness.

If you don't want kids, don't.

Exactly right @Kak

If you don’t want kids - good, don’t.
If you want kids - stop looking for excuses like “I can’t be an entrepreneur because kids take time”. Why do so many ppl see them as mutually exclusive when in fact they are complimentary? Family can be a big “why” for going 10x on your business etc.

The most badass thing you can do in life is take responsibility.

 

[Anon05554]

"Should I have kids" isn't the question to ask, imo.

"Should I have kids with this person" is what needs to be asked. A child will always come with obligation that can be planned for. The wrong partner will make your life a living hell, thus making raising your children exponentially harder.

I love my daughter to death. But I'd be lying if I said I don't regret having a child with the woman I had one with.

I had five(by C-section) and adopted two. The youngest is my avatar. We are nowhere near rich, but these kids are the reason Iam on a mad quest for the fast lane. Their future prosperity is my drive as I don't want to have them grinding it out on the slow lane like I am doing.

We are actually happy that they are our biggest investment. They are now at a point where some can relieve me of house chores, while others participate in activities on the farm over the holidays.

The seven of them bring variety and colour to our interactions.

I plan to introduce them to this forum at the right ages .So MJ, followers are loading.

Do I have any regrets? Yes, that I can't have 1 more!

 

[Kevin88660]

Hi Fastlaners

My wife and I are trying to decide if to have children. She's 28 and I'm 26, so her remaining children bearing years are limited.

On one hand, we have a vision of a beautiful family and family culture etc. On the other hand, friends are warning that we'd be giving up our lives to take care of another human etc. We already know all this, but...

If you can:

• Share advice/things we should consider
• Share stories about your experiences, the good and bad, the pains and pleasure
• Regrets of having or not having
• If you don't have, do you feel a void? How do you fill it? Is it sufficient?

Please, no condescending responses, or 'you shouldn't have if you're asking this' sort of responses. I'm asking because there's immense value and learning in other perspectives.

Thanks!
Jon.

Imagine we you and your wife are in the 70s. Cannot walk or see things clearly, and need to visit the hospitals for regular check up.

It is always good to have someone to call to when you just accidentally had a fall.

I get to interact with a lot of old people in my industry/circle. The old cliche is still true. There are things that money can’t buy.

Having too much money in your 80s and having no choice but to leave it for your favorite charity or young helpers..is to some extend regretable.

 

[Kevin88660]

Do you like kids?
Do you like being around them, playing with them, talking to them? Do you smile and feel happy when you see parents with their kids?
Are you a responsible person?
Do you have your shit together? At 26 you might be too young for kids and she might be too old for you.

It comes down to if you wan to or not.
Choosing the right partner is the most important thing.
Consider their charectar, their family, their behaviour, their health.

Dont worry about the good and the bad.
Youll give up sleeping and you wont feel good for a while. But when its good, its awesome. You cant feel those good feelings without having kids. Its an experience which cant be described, it has to be felt. Same as trying to explain how colors look like to a blind person. It cant be done.

Dont think of regret.
We only regret things that we wanted to do and never did. Think of all the things you never ever want to do because you hate the idea of them. Do you regret not doing them? Or are you glad you didnt do them?

Im not sure about feeling a void.
Maybe some people do feel a void.
Your life will be fuller with kids.
They will be an obstacle and a source of hope.
A challenge and a learning opportunity.
A hindrance and a relief.
A annoyance and entertainment.
A drain for resources and energy and an endless source of motivation.
A constant worry and a constant drive to do better.

Those who want to have children will have.

For those who seriously do never want they won’t. Just take the gay community for example. Plenty of smart dudes who are financially successfully.. Who am I to say they are a “biological failure”....

The purpose of this thread is for those sitting on the fence. It is more about risk/reward and the partial/full irreversibility of certain decision.

The risk of a “bad marriage” is overblown. At worst there is satoshi nakamoto these days.

If you are a 26 year old single dude you can curse and swear not to have any children now and focus on making money.. 10 years later at 36 when you suddenly realized that you were such a fool you can always change your mind and find a simple girl in her 20s working as a elementary school teacher or nurse and get married in six month and have a baby (provided you are financially rather okay).

When you are in your 60s and 70s with failing eyesights and you hope you can have a trusted adult by blood besides you so that you won’t be scammed by some simple online transaction..who knows what technology it is by then...you cannot reproduce a 28 year old son/daughter immediately by throwing your money.

Given that the op is in a committed marriage with her wife then operation of delaying that decision is not there.

The correct way to think about it is which is a bigger risk to you and your wife? The cost of regretting having a child 2-3 years later losing your freedom and having more obligation, or the cost of decades down the road not having a child or regretting not making earlier investment.

People always change their perspective on things 3-5 years. The biggest risk is when your views changed you are already stuck and unable to unwind your decision.

When it comes to important decision, what would you lose when you are proven wrong later is a powerful decision tool.

If I were the op I would have one kid and hustle for money at the same time, because having a nanny will certainly take care a lot of the hassle. If it is something that can be solved by money I rather not tackle a problem that cannot be solved by money, because I can then single mindedly focused on making the money.

 

[Onakosa]

Hi Fastlaners

My wife and I are trying to decide if to have children. She's 28 and I'm 26, so her remaining children bearing years are limited.

On one hand, we have a vision of a beautiful family and family culture etc. On the other hand, friends are warning that we'd be giving up our lives to take care of another human etc. We already know all this, but...

If you can:

• Share advice/things we should consider
• Share stories about your experiences, the good and bad, the pains and pleasure
• Regrets of having or not having
• If you don't have, do you feel a void? How do you fill it? Is it sufficient?

Please, no condescending responses, or 'you shouldn't have if you're asking this' sort of responses. I'm asking because there's immense value and learning in other perspectives.

Thanks!
Jon.

I had two in my 30s. I can't imagine not having them. I went from being the most 'emotionally distanced' person you ever met to loving the pair of them with an intensity that's quite frightening (to me) at times. All the cliches are true.

It's not always been easy and the life I have now is not the life I thought I would have. Not worse or better, just different. You do have to change the way you do things. Some people feel you can just carry on as before and the kid will just fit into that, I'm not so sure. Not going to get into judging other people but I personally feel that as a parent you're kind of obliged to put your children first before your own wants.

I would say though that you both need to be absolutely clear that it's what you want. I know so many couples who have children then decide to split up a couple of years later. That's not fair on anyone least of all the poor child.

Good luck!