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Has anyone here taken a "Landmark Education" course?

adiakritos

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I went to a meeting last night (I suspect this is their marketing strategy) that talks about some of their classes. It piqued my curiosity so I want to know what others have to say.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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Oh boy, here we go...
 

MJ DeMarco

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I'm guessing this has already been discussed?
I don't think so, but I'm sure it's likened to degenerate into discussion that rivals religion and politics.
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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Have you guys taken the course?

I'm more interested in knowing what alumni of the course have to say about it really.

That, and the measurable results that it allowed them to attain.
 

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idk anything about it. so im just gonna stay neutral and observe ;)
 

Twiki

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I've known several people who've experienced the program. Not sure about "measurable results"... it definitely seems like a Your Mileage May Vary type of thing. I'm most interested in how such programs are marketed.

Dan Kennedy says that Werner Erhard, the founder of EST (which is where Landmark comes from), privately said to him "We preach independence but breed dependence." That seems to be the key to a great deal of self-help and self-improvement programs. But it doesn't mean that those things don't benefit many people.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Google it with the word "scam" "cult" "reviews" and "recommendations" and see what you learn. You'll get many opinions on the subject.
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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I've known several people who've experienced the program. Not sure about "measurable results"... it definitely seems like a Your Mileage May Vary type of thing. I'm most interested in how such programs are marketed.

Dan Kennedy says that Werner Erhard, the founder of EST (which is where Landmark comes from), privately said to him "We preach independence but breed dependence." That seems to be the key to a great deal of self-help and self-improvement programs. But it doesn't mean that those things don't benefit many people.
I read in an article that at some point in the program when the participants are really moved, they must call one person and ask them for forgiveness. That's a pretty powerful way to utilize viral marketing since the person they call will probably be moved by the call and tell their friends or family about it.. piquing everyone elses curiosity and generating a sort of buzz.

Everything I've read so far is all about the experience, but I'm more interested to know how the participants do years after the program... Although, if what Dan says is true... I seriously doubt they are selling anything more than an 'experience'.
 

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Jonleehacker

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I have friends that have taken it and said that it was very worthwhile. It is a serious program with solid personal grow tools and teachings. If you want to learn and grow you will, if you want to see pick it apart and find all its flaws and call it a rip off, then you will probably achieve that as well.
 

JustKris

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I've done the Landmark Forum and their Advanced course.

I actually really enjoyed it. It's reasonably priced for a 3-day seminar and a 2 month followup course. It's more experiential than informational, but I still use a lot the stuff they explore in there. (Concepts like "rackets", etc.)

Their marketing is …cult-y. They're super high pressure about bringing people to the final night so they can pitch them on the Forum.

TL, DR version---Cool course. Super weird and creepy organization.
 

The Irish Guy

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I searched the fastlane forum to see if landmark had been discussed recently and I'm surprised that this thread in 2014 was the only one.

My girlfriend did the course in November (she actually went to the October one and walked out after 3 hours!) but decided to give it another go. She's a very smart girl (barrister, speaks 4 languages etc.) and she loved it the second time round.

I did it last weekend, I went in extremely skeptical and after a very long boring day 1 I loved day 2 and 3. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. One of my favourite books is The Power of Now and I had no idea that landmark are basically teaching ways to become more present and free the chattering of the monkey mind. I've listened to The Power of Now 4-5 times and I never really got it all but after the forum I've been listening again and it's all making sense now.

The main benefit I took away was that I became aware of blind spots and limitations in my own thinking or way of processing the world. Our past experiences cloud our judgement and we usually aren't aware of these filters, it's like baggage we carry around without knowing it, the whole course is designed to just show you this baggage/idiosyncrasies and then once you're aware of it you can decide what's helping you vrs what's hindering you. Highly recommended
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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I did one entire year of training with Landmark back in 2014 and 2015. I got a lot more out of it by actually participating as a coach and teaching the things that I learned because of the experience and the coaching. It’s not something designed specifically for making money. There are plenty of people who make money or still emotionally F*cked. That being said is designed unblock you mentally. I haven’t been back to a center in over Three years and I can definitely say it was one of the best trainings I’ve ever done. However what one of the people here said about it breeding dependence is relatively true. The reason this is true is because they say “stay in the conversation” . Which basically means to stay around the center with people who are doing Landmark to keep the landmark way of thinking alive in your mind. However this is very similar to simply having a good group of people around you who you learn from and take good qualities from just like we do by having solid entrepreneurial friends.

Evan pagan and Grant Cardone both talk about Landmark in a good light. I may not be a multi millionaire yet but if I were my life would still not be as good simply because I would still have Plenty of emotional baggage which Id have no idea how to deal with.

When I coached Landmark there was a girl in my group who didn’t buy in to absolutely anything we were doing. She didn’t Participate at all and yet went through two months of the course showing up every time. When the course is over she looked at me as if I had
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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One final thought, I think that Landmark does a lot more to develop people as leaders in all walks of life. The whole point of many of his courses is to develop leadership qualities coincidentally. They showed me what looks like to be able to inspire other people by focusing on creating a possibility rather than being stuck in status quo. It also shows showed me what it’s like to be in a group of people were all pushing to reinforce each other‘s excellence. He showed me how to get off of all stories that I told myself which would keep me trapped or use them as excuses. I basically think it just grows you the hell up. Obvious is not perfect and they use a lot of free labor the volunteers because that’s just the way their business model works. But at the end of the day There training is way cheaper. Then most trainings I have found. For example Tony Robbins coaching is $5000 without the additional educational modules. Landmark is like $2000 for three courses over the over entire year. So everything has its pros and cons. One thing I definitely learned is that if I’m going to do a training it needs to be done over a long period of time like a year in order to actually integrate what I’ve learned to make it permanent.
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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No “he” or “his”.. using speech to text to respond while driving lol sorry about the weird typos.
 

MJ DeMarco

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When I coached Landmark there was a girl in my group who didn’t buy in to absolutely anything we were doing. She didn’t Participate at all and yet went through two months of the course showing up every time. When the course is over she looked at me as if I had
You didn't finish the story?!?
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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You didn't finish the story?!?
Lol sorry I was driving and the app was being weird and not posting. Not directly what happened.

Speech to text is kinda iffy sometimes.

Anyway what I was going to say was that she looked at me as if I had cheated her: as if it was my fault she didn’t get much out of course. Literally have me a look of disappointment, shaking her head at me and saying nothing. And she’s the kind of people who walks away and leaves shitty reviews about landmark, says its all a scam, and tells others to steer clear. But hey, that’s the way life is. She got what she put in to it.

Also, as I mentioned before about being emotionally screwed up yet still being able to make money... one guy who I coached (he should have been the one coaching me TBH he’s a F*cking powerhouse) is at least worth tens of millions. I’m not sure exactly but he lives in west palm beach, drives a new rolls Royce on the regular, and builds hotels around the world. Why was he there? To show how smart he is? No, to learn something new. Get get someone to kick his a$$ and show him where he’s full of shit. He raised like $200k for an event he through as part of the program we were doing within like a month and a half. Next to him I’m our group was a single mom who’s “project” was to get her community to basically have a pot luck. Lol the distinctions the rich guy learned were different from the ones the single mom learned, and it didn’t matter I had only taken the course once before coaching it myself.

Landmark apparently used to be way more aggressive about this when Werner ran it as the Est training.

I believe I’m investing in myself and giving whatever training, even if it’s shitty, my best effort. I wasn’t an experienced coach, but what does that matter? We all knew what the curriculum said to do and we were essentially following a boilerplate structure. It can be improved but the kinds of improvements I’d make require more time and dedication on a per person basis. This is more like production line fast paced “bang bang bang” pulling people out of their bullshit as fast as possible.

My family members who went in skeptical didn’t get shit out of it. My friends who do value investing in themselves absolutely loved the forum.
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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So apparently I say “shit” a lot. Lol ah well
 

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The Irish Guy

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My family members who went in skeptical didn’t get sh*t out of it. My friends who do value investing in themselves absolutely loved the forum.
There was a clinical psychologist in our group who stood up on the first day and had some pretty damning things to say to the course leader but I talked to her on the third day, she changed her tune and really found value in it, she signed up to the do the advanced course (another 3 day 500 dollar weekend course). I wonder how many people didn't get anything from it, I think we got lucky and had a fantastic course leader. I went to the Tuesday night of my girlfriends course and I didn't like her course leader but then again I was VERY skeptical and that may have coloured my impression, she liked him.
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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Yeah, I mean I didn’t have the best coaches every time but I always learned something from applying the distinctions.

One of the most powerful things I realized from the course is how insanely deep the leaders impact has on the whole room. I could see how fast a room can be shifted, in mere seconds, by the presence of someone who really knows or sees things other don’t.

I remember Rocco in Florida was teaching a distinction he thought he understood but really didn’t. And I unconsciously started tuning out and wasn’t sure why, let alone even aware I was tuning out. And then a senior instructor stepped in suddenly to coach him in front of everyone and basically drill him (not in an aggressive way but a very matter-of-fact way) about not knowing what he’s talking about. She helped him get the distinction right there in front of us, and then he turned to speak to use again, and we instantly we engaged again. The whole room got less fidgety.. idk now to explain it but that’s why they constantly say when people have something they are “incomplete” about they “bring it into the space”.

But because he’s done lots of training he can take the criticism without blinking an eye.

That’s another thing... lol

After lots of training with Landmark you start to see things very dry, very “matter of fact” or as they say it, “what is so”. But normal people can’t handle pure raw feedback like that and get offended. This reminds me of Ray Dalio’s description of how things are at Bridgewater. So if someone who’s sensitive encounters someone who’s sorta gotten into the groove with speaking and seeing things from “what is so” but hasn’t really reconciled that with empathy for how it impacts the person they’re speaking to.. well then those people go write bad reviews lol
 

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I went to a meeting last night (I suspect this is their marketing strategy) that talks about some of their classes. It piqued my curiosity so I want to know what others have to say.
If I'm not mistaken, the Landmark Forum/Landmark Worldwide has is roots in EST, the popular 70's movement started by Werner Erhard. He's a controversial figure, and, like anyone who claims to have "the answers," has had his share of sycophants and detractors. I've not read any of his works or attended any of their programs, so I won't judge.

I'm just adding my two cents because there's nothing new under the sun, and Landmark is a good example, as is Tony Robbins, Brendan Burchard and every other personal development "guru" or self-help "movement" going today. The longer you live, the more you see that the same stuff gets recycled time and again. I'm not knocking any of it, but I am interested in the history/backstory of such things. If you can benefit from it, great. Just go into it with your eyes open.

Here are some links to learn more about Erhard and EST.

The Return of Werner Erhard, Father of Self-Help

Home
 
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adiakritos

adiakritos

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May 30, 2011
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If I'm not mistaken, the Landmark Forum/Landmark Worldwide has is roots in EST, the popular 70's movement started by Werner Erhard. He's a controversial figure, and, like anyone who claims to have "the answers," has had his share of sycophants and detractors. I've not read any of his works or attended any of their programs, so I won't judge.

I'm just adding my two cents because there's nothing new under the sun, and Landmark is a good example, as is Tony Robbins, Brendan Burchard and every other personal development "guru" or self-help "movement" going today. The longer you live, the more you see that the same stuff gets recycled time and again. I'm not knocking any of it, but I am interested in the history/backstory of such things. If you can benefit from it, great. Just go into it with your eyes open.

Here are some links to learn more about Erhard and EST.

The Return of Werner Erhard, Father of Self-Help

Home
I have a Tony Robbins coach right now and I've bought many of his programs. I've also done a whole year of all the fundamental courses of Landmark. Also got a ton of information from Eben Pagan's program, 'Get Altitude'. I haven't studied Burchard's stuff though.

Each is very unique. Eben is business focused around info products and general business insights. Tony Robbins is NLP 'lets get driven, results, and fulfilled' focused. Landmark is more "let's catch your blind spots and get you unstuck from your passed and create the future with other people" focused.

So yes, maybe 5% gets recycled but these organizations are all different.

Perhaps if you compare Burchard, with Eben, and Sam Ovens you'd find more overlap.
 

rogue synthetic

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Funny timing on this bump. I'm almost done with Luke Rhinehart's The Book of est which was interesting enough that I queued up Steven Pressman's Outrageous Betrayal to get more of the back story on Erhard.

If Landmark is anything like est (and est is anything like Rhinehart describes) it's an interesting blend of Zen Buddhism, ancient Stoicism, and a digestable version of Martin Heidegger's brand of existentialism.

With the requisite mysterious top guy leading the cult of personality, as all these things apparently must have.
 

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