Going fastlane in Legal (Lawsuits & more)?

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

@seomatic Something similar in the USA is getting more popular:

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[Raoul Duke]

 

[Jessica Reid]

As I lawyer, I must say, this summary is pretty accurate. I represented 5 Plaintiffs in a major lawsuit against a national multimillion dollar food company. After 5 years of litigating the case and trying the case in federal court with a full on jury, we won on all claims and were awarded monies in the multiple high six figures.

But guess what, during the years of litigating, the company had gone broke and even filed for bankruptcy, so my firm nor the Plaintiffs ever got a dime.

Anyway, like @WJK said, your call.

 

[WJK]

As I lawyer, I must say, this summary is pretty accurate. I represented 5 Plaintiffs in a major lawsuit against a national multimillion dollar food company. After 5 years of litigating the case and trying the case in federal court with a full on jury, we won on all claims and were awarded monies in the multiple high six figures.

But guess what, during the years of litigating, the company had gone broke and even filed for bankruptcy, so my firm nor the Plaintiffs ever got a dime.

Anyway, like @WJK said, your call.

And your firm and the plaintiffs paid for all those fee, retainers, salaries, and costs up front to end up with a piece of paper giving you the right to chase your money judgement from a defunct business. Go figure.

I have known of a lot of legal firms that have gone broke over one good lawsuit. They couldn't handle and process the truck loads of papers that the defendants delivered to them, starting in discovery. How could they find that one critical paper in that mountain? They couldn't pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs and fees year after year. Their small group of lawyers would find themselves sitting across the table from an army of opposing legal counsel. Many of these cases become a sea of quick sand that consumes them and their firms. Big settlements sound really sexy. So does winning the lottery.

 

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[Onakosa]

Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.

"this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS." - Hmmmm ...

Okay, when lawyers (here in England - no idea about any other jurisdiction) have to deal with Litigants in Person (i.e. lay people defending themselves) most of them inwardly sigh deeply. The rules about how a lawyer deals with them are VERY strict. A lawyer cannot exploit a LIPs lack of legal knowledge. This basically means that if the lawyer sees something that the LIP has missed OR if there is a very obvious (to them) flaw in the LIPs argument, they are obliged to flag it up and not exploit it - which is what would normally happen.

For this, and numerous other reasons which are too dull to list here, a lawyer ends up doing about 75% of the LIPs job.

Courts will usually give LIPs the benefit of the doubt and - more often than not - find in their favour or, at the very least, will not penalise them in the way a lawyer would have been.

LIPs then stick two fingers up at the lawyer, and go off and tell anyone who will listen, "lawyers don't have any clue what they are doing ...". They then usually decide to qualify themselves and become lawyers.

Just saying like.

 

[WJK]

That's what I think. The OP (with all respect) seems clueless. Doesn't understand either the subject or the industry.

You seem to be serious, so this is my serious reply to your idea:

I never practiced law. I was an expert witness and I did litigation support in my field of expertise. I was only involved when there was an existing law suit. I'm not sure about your plan to create them. I consider most law suits to be waste of time and money. You never know what you're gonna get in the end. I played with the big boys in Los Angeles for several years before I retired.

Discovery can bury you in depositions, up-front costs, and paperwork. I was hired to sit on teams of experts for different cases. Can you imagine what that team costs the plaintiff for all those up-front retainer fees? Sometimes I was retained just so the other side couldn't hire me. And I never testified, but I collected my fee. Juries are fickle. And it's easy to get thrown out of court for some arcane civil procedures rule. Getting good advice on the jury selection can cost you big bucks. That's where a lot of cases are won before you even get started on the trial. You never know what judge you are going to pull from the pool. You'd better make sure that you make him (her) like you. Those judges have a great deal of discretion in their rulings. Even with a judgement, getting paid is totally iffy. At least, here in the USA, they can drag that pay-off out for years or carve you out of your money in bankruptcy.

You're dreaming of being involved in that world, but that's the big boys playing field. Nuisance suits are usually settled for $5,000. Period. End of story. They are dispatched like a pile of dog poop on their front steps -- with you signing a release form and a non-disclosure agreement.

My bottom line is this -- a bad settlement is better than a good law suit any day.

Good luck on your plan. It has a HUGE learning curve and BIG up front investment costs. I hope you have deep pockets. And it has a low chance of making you big bucks. But, that's just my opinion. Take it for what is it worth to you...

 

[NCNY]

Yeah you probaly sued for peanuts, go ahead and try to sue some big sharks and see what happens. Good luck trying to compete against an army of top of the line lawyers...

 

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[Jon L]

To successfully prosecute a class action case, you have to be really, really, really, really good at what you do. You're going up against companies with unlimited budgets, and the incentive to use it. I built a case management system for a class action case. There were 100-200 users of the system. It took 10 years to reach settlement. It was INCREDIBLY complex and very expensive to prosecute. Tens of millions of dollars, all of which had to be financed.

To set up class action cases where there are no precedents for them, you have to be even better than that.

Unless you're that good, I'd look at providing tools for lawyers to use. Opportunity is out there. Provide the shovels and the jeans, don't mine for gold, as it were.

 

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[seomatic]

Alright just a quick update: The case is filled with the court. Everything is paid for and now it's time to wait. My lawyer told me it takes usually a few months till we have a date for the hearing. Most likely there will be some written procedure prior to that.

So I'm using the time to work on my legal tech. Actually there is a lot more compliance involved than expected. I will finish the Beta version this week and then have a lawyer go through everything so we are clean and compliant before we launch. Don't want to do any mistakes regarding privacy laws.

 

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[WJK]

Bit uncharted territory.

Not really. The guys that chase that "low hanging fruit" are called ambulance chasers. They are the joke of the industry.

 

[Kid]

wow 100 views, 3 votes and no reply.

I took some action today and reached out to some lawyers to get an expert opinion. However it seems most of them take friday afternoon off. bad timing I guess. Will try again monday.

This "legal" thing in Europe might be an uphill battle.
Its not about solving some technical problem but about public reception.

In states you can sue corporation for using words that you don't like
,probably win and pocket few million.
And many people seek that possibility.

You might lose other opportunities trying to educate people in EU that they should in fact fight back.

If getting one's own money back plus potential premium can't convince them then what can?

If you can solve this problem, you might be up to something.

 

[woken]

Actually in my jurisdiction lawyers are not allowed to take commission in most cases. So I need to set up a company anyway which then hires the lawyer as contractor.

Btw. does somebody know if it's possible to start a law firm without being a lawyer, for example by hiring one as employee and then using his name and title?

For a “legal fastlane”, so far it sounds nothing legal.

It depends where you want to do this. I read again all posts and still don’t understand if you’re talking US, Europe, or anything else.


In the US, District of Columbia and Washington states allow for (limited) circumstances under which a nonlawyer can have an ownership stake in a law firm. Nothing else.

In the UK, you can but you need at least 1 lawyer at partner/ director level.

I recently saw a video about an ex con in Gibraltar which does, more or less, what you want to do.

Consulting.

His firm gets the cases, and then work them out themselves or outsource the lawyers. They get their cut and that’s it.

 

[woken]

That's exactly what I wanna do. Can you share the video?
Most likely we want to focus on EU markets. It's way less saturated than US.

it’s actually Marbella, hm. Similar enough.
There you go

 

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[seomatic]

it’s actually Marbella, hm. Similar enough.
There you go

thanks, seems like an interesting dude.
Found his website and will shoot him a message

Jacoglaw Spanish to English Criminal Legal Services

 

[woken]

thanks, seems like an interesting dude.
Found his website and will shoot him a message

Jacoglaw Spanish to English Criminal Legal Services

I suppose he didn’t bother to document his journey here.. such a shame

 

[seomatic]

Yo, I'm thinking about doing a progress thread. Someone interested in that?
Here's what I did today: Hired the first lawyer and sent the first claim.
Another project in the pipeline already, but want to take it one by one for now.
Obviously they are not million dollar deals, but 4 and 5 figures. Just getting my feet wet.

 

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[seomatic]

Okay all the paperwork is done. The defendant has now one week to accept the offer, otherwise we will file with the court. What happened is that the value of the claim increased 10x so there is quite a bit of cash to float. One option to deal with it is to add financing company, however they are only interested in cases of six figures upwards so I have to hunt bigger cases. Anyway it was good to start small, already learned so much. Always take action before you're ready.

My long term idea is to build an "dream team" of lawyers and other relevant professions. The value proposition to the legal team is a steady deal flow of well-paid work and the value proposition to the client is a first-class legal team which can act way quicker than the average lawyer, specialization and trust.

Another option would be to just forward the cases to lawyers and charge a fee. Just like MJ did with limos.com. This is perfectly legal in my jurisdiction and there is without question demand on both sides of the market. This could be combined with legal tech, to provide additional value for both parties.

Would love to connect with others here, perhaps we can help bringing your product to a new market.

 

[seomatic]

What sort of claim and how did it suddenly 10x

what sort of Claim is this? And how on earth did it suddenly 10X ? I have never ever heard of that - suddenly -happening in a Claim.

One part is fixed and one part is performance-based. So we were able to estimate the performance based part finally.

 

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[Onakosa]

One part is fixed and one part is performance-based. So we were able to estimate the performance based part finally.

How can a legal claim be performance based. What area of law is this? I’m just intrigued. You don’t need to share detail but just e.g. ‘tort based claim, public sector versus retailer’. I come from a legal background (English law) which is why - to me - much of what you say just doesn’t make sense.

 

[WJK]

Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.

Why don't you just go to law school? I did in my early 40s. If you are going to play this dirty game, you need the education. Other than the money, why would you be interested?

 

[Jessica Reid]

And your firm and the plaintiffs paid for all those fee, retainers, salaries, and costs up front to end up with a piece of paper giving you the right to chase your money judgement from a defunct business. Go figure.

I have known of a lot of legal firms that have gone broke over one good lawsuit. They couldn't handle and process the truck loads of papers that the defendants delivered to them, starting in discovery. How could they find that one critical paper in that mountain? They couldn't pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs and fees year after year. Their small group of lawyers would find themselves sitting across the table from an army of opposing legal counsel. Many of these cases become a sea of quick sand that consumes them and their firms. Big settlements sound really sexy. So does winning the lottery.

THIS!!! That's exactly what we got. A piece a paper that was worth absolutely nothing.

I hope "legal" guy can heed from our experience and advice. (Sorry, too tired to scroll to find the author's name)

 

[WJK]

Jumping on board with what? I don't understand the OP's idea and, with respect to the OP, I'm not sure he properly understands it either. That's what I've been saying throughout the whole thread!

If I misunderstood you, sorry. Thanks for clarifying.

I too don't think the OP understands what he is doing at all. And he's headed for dragging a whole bunch of people down with him. The attorneys he hires have legal duties that he doesn't share. And they can only withdraw from a case with the judge's permission. I think he's totally over his head.

 

[Onakosa]

It seems that here are two camps but i write to both:

What i think OP is doing is aiming for low hanging fruits.
Cases that are easy (are there easy cases?) that might be somehow automated/optimized.

The risk is that he will get into cases that will ruin him.
The promised reward is that he will automate some of them to the point of profitability.

Bit uncharted territory.

It’s not at all ‘uncharted’. There are businesses (in the UK) that do nothing except this. Low-level PI and debt work. This is what I kinda meant about the OP - to my mind - not understanding the industry. I could be wrong tho.

 

[seomatic]

Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.

 

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[seomatic]

wow 100 views, 3 votes and no reply.

I took some action today and reached out to some lawyers to get an expert opinion. However it seems most of them take friday afternoon off. bad timing I guess. Will try again monday.

 

[seomatic]

the way I see it: things started in the US and then came to europe a few years later.
we're seeing already some bigger cases taking place for example with volkswagen and wirecard were thousands of people act together.

I think the critical part will be to educate people to take actions themself instead of hoping for help from the government. (that's a very common attitude) From a legal perspective it shouldn't be an issue to win the cases.

 

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[seomatic]

@seomatic Something similar in the USA is getting more popular:

Save Time and Money with DoNotPay!

Continue surfing free trials, beating parking tickets, suing robocallers for cash, and more.

donotpay.com

"Fight corporations, beat bureaucracy and sue anyone at the press of a button."
I wanna move to the US. Seriously!

 

[seomatic]

Yeah you probaly sued for peanuts, go ahead and try to sue some big sharks and see what happens. Good luck trying to compete against an army of top of the line lawyers...

That's the point of a class-action (the equivalent in EU) to bundle a lot of small claims together to be able to hire top of the line lawyers as well.

And like I said I won my suit against top-notch lawyers from 2 international law firms without a lawyer on my own. They paid the lawyer probably more than they had to pay me, which makes it even more obvious that they have no clue what they are doing. And it was not a small company, they have hundreds of employees.

 

[Onakosa]

Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.

Also, "Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions" -

I don't mean to sound negative, but the kind of litigation that I think that you think you are talking about often goes on for years. Just as an e.g. the McLibel case here in England went on for ten years. How are you going to fund it?

 

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[seomatic]

Also, "Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions" -

I don't mean to sound negative, but the kind of litigation that I think that you think you are talking about often goes on for years. Just as an e.g. the McLibel case here in England went on for ten years. How are you going to fund it?

I've talked to specialized companies financing this kind of actions, just like an insurance company: They take the risk and charge a premium for it after the victory.