GO TO COLLEGE... A little Rant.

[JEdwards]

On this site, over and over, people ask, should I go to school, It's free, it's expensive, is it a waste of time? It's this or that.

Let me tell you something. For all your wanting to be great, for all your needing to be great, for all the lies you tell yourself about how great you are.

You are probably not and odds are you are going to fail. Sorry but it is true. Business is tough, if you think School is hard, wait tell you open a business.

It's 4, well maybe for some of you slow ones 6 years. from 18-22... Go get the experience. Go live your life, have fun.

Do you really think all those losers who do nothing but party and bang chicks are going to be sad in 10 years.

They might be, but they are going to have some great memories..

You on the other hand took a shot, it failed, and all the memories you got out of 18-22 is your business failing, your parents yelling at you, you losing friends. etc.


I myself never went to college, and I am one of the lucky ones who made money right out of the gate. But most of you won't be lucky. Trust me on that.

Go to School, have fun. learn. Open a business if you have to and see. Even the great Bills Gates had a business going before he dropped out.

 

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[Vigilante]

What if you're already over 22, party a lot already and have found yourself in the world. Now you want to get on the road to money as quick as possible to enjoy the fruits while young. Would you still say go to College?

no --- for the most part, there's only 2 reasons to go to college :

1. to postpone adulthood for a while or
2. because you want to enter a field, such as being an automotive engineer, that require it

I am more and more convinced that business degrees are worth almost nothing.

 

[Tiger]

Good thoughts Jack.

Let me add though, please don't get yourself in debt to go to college. School debt has now exceeded credit card debt as the top source of consumer debt. You cannot get out from under it, even from bankruptcy.

The world has quickly changed. Universities no longer hold the monopoly on knowledge as they have for centuries. Until the past few years, they were the gatekeepers of wisdom and financial success. No longer. The internet has opened up the books of knowledge to the masses of the world. You no longer need to get into debt, mortgage your future and subject yourself to the sociopolitical brainwashing of university professors to obtain the knowledge you desire.

I'm not saying don't go to college; Just don't get yourself into debt doing it. And don't do it because you think it's necessary to become financially successful today.

Like Jack said, do it for the memories. Do it for the relationships and connections. Do it for the experience and fun. Just don't get into debt.

 

[Amail]

I usually steer clear of this discussion, but I'll wade in this time.

Too often I read "I was in school, but it was just a waste of time. I'm going to work on my Fastlane business instead". I'm gonna say 90% of the people that choose to drop out "because it was a waste of time" are just lazy and use the Fastlane Business pursuit as a convenient excuse.

One of the best attributes college graduates have is the badge of "stick-to-it-iveness". It's hard fought credibility. If you complete all the coursework required to get a degree, you've got the moxy to tackle big projects. If you bail out of school, I write you off as a quitter, a loser. Win me back by building a successful business, but know this: that's not what most quitters do. Most quitters just quit.

I'm gonna miss out on thanks from the younger demographic for this, but: High school graduates are typically immature. They're on their way, but they're not there yet. Their judgement can be wildly biased and will swing all manner of random directions. Growing up tempers that. College age is when that transition typically happens. So, college grads have that going for them too - a little more age, some maturity, and the improved judgement that goes along with it.

If, however, at 16 you are wise beyond your years, have a good head on your shoulders, learn quickly, perhaps skipping college is a good option. I can think of a couple examples on this forum that I believe fit this description. I'm astonished how inept many college grads are. We hire junior engineers out of some prestigious universities, and the pickings are pretty slim. There is a lot more value in four years of work than four years of school, but that work has to be at a high level.

So high schoolers and high school grads; if you're that 10% (1%?) that truly, honestly, unreservedly understand what it takes to start a business and are 100% committed to making it happen, if you have real adults urging you to do it and lining up happy to follow you into the breach, then have at it. If you're not, and rest assured you're probably not, then PLEASE don't give up the opportunity to continue maturing in an environment you can prove you have the chops to take on big projects and see them thru. Avoid debt wherever and however you can, but if you have a ride don't squander it being a quitter.

 

[TK1]

College, drinking, party and banging or own business, drinking, party and banging...

whatever you pick: Anything but joining some MLM crap

 

[Vigilante]

Amazon.com: Launching Points : 50 Careers That Don't Require A Four-Year College Degree (9781450731171): David Happe, Jeff Gerke: Books

 

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[theag]

Whats up with all the meta-level discussions here lately?

Of course college isnt for everyone. I agree with Jack though, some people overestimate themselves and think they can be successful without a formal education. I just dropped out of one of the most reputable universities in Europe. Maybe I'm on of those guys that overestimate themselves. I don't know, time will tell.

But what I know is, that all these problems that Jack mentioned ("took a shot, it failed, and all the memories you got out of 18-22 is your business failing, your parents yelling at you, you losing friends") are problems that started for me since I started university, not my business. I only went to university because I had the wish of a slowlane career in investment banking in mind (and was right on track to achieve that), but discovered during an internship that this is not what I want from live. The memories of the last 2 years of my life, since I started university, suck. I didn't have fun while in university and was depressed, for many reasons. When I dropped out I was happier than ever before because I felt free to do whatever I want with my life.

Somebody mentioned that you won't be successful if you are a quitter. You quit once, you will always quit. I personally think thats bullshit. Of course its better to finish what you started, but you can't let that be the only argument in your decision process. You can't finish something with the only reason being that you have to finish it or you are a loser who will also quit everything else. I debated with myself intensely over this and decided that I won't finish just for the sake of finishing.

I dropped out for a variety of reasons, but mainly because I was very unhappy with my life and needed a big change to get me back on track and I didn't see how a degree would benefit me in the real world (except for typical slowlane jobs a guy with a business degree will get). Somebody will say now that its better to build a business on the side while you are in college or are financially secured by a slowlane job. Maybe thats right. But I rather work some bullshit job on the weekend to keep myself afloat and be able to work on my business. For me its also about being fully immersed in your business, feeling to pressure to succeed. If I remember right MJ also felt this pressure when he moved to Phoenix with only a few hundred dollars, and I'm sure other successful entrepreneurs felt it. If you got your back against the wall you can only move forward and thats what I do now. Its hard and I'm struggling, but I'm way happier than I was when I was still in university.

Notice how I don't say "I know I will be successful"? Its because I don't know. I'm working hard on it, but I will never know if it works out. Maybe I will fail, maybe I should have finished my degree to have a better safety net, maybe I will have some success but hardly enough to have a lifestyle that I could have easily had with a standard slowlane job and maybe I will succeed fully. Whatever happens, I stand by my decision to drop out, and so should everyone, whether it is the decision to go to college, not go to college, drop out, or whatever.

 

[Vigilante]

Let's say you enter the world of consultancy (can make lots of money there slowlane, make a book about your expertise..or hire employees..to get fastlane), do you think a degree might matter in those cases? Wouldn't a company want to see that you know what you are talking about?

That's probably what you meant with the second?

I did consulting for Bose (the #1 speaker manufacturer in terms of marketshare in the world). They didn't care what piece of paper (or lack thereof) I had. They wanted what I knew from first hand experience. So, for me... no degree was required. The degree doesn't demonstrate you know ANYTHING. At least half of all people that emerge from 4 year institutions in 5 or 6 years with a degree in hand majored in drinking and volley ball.

The people that generally are impressed with higher education for the most part are other people with higher education. In the United States, 50% of high school kids go on to college. Of those 50% that go into college as Freshman, less than HALF of them ever graduate. So, 25% of the United States population has a degree. Of that 25%, it is estimated that somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of them are not working in their field of "expertise."

Unless you want a specific vocation that requires it, a degree is not a requirement for 80%-90% of the United States population.

 

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[Kuz]

College is jokes. Depressing waste of time. At 31, i've only kept two solid friends from that period - neither of whome I've seen in more than a year.

Most of the friends i "chill" with are (ex)work colleagues, random roommates, people at my MMA training facility and girls i bang - i.e going out and meeting girls in bars, clubs, the street, internet dating site (on a relentless basis) some broad i bumped into the airport a few weeks ago. etc. etc.

College was a depressing whole that i left me in a mountain of debt, scraping by barely enough to eat - going several days in a row without food cos i was LITERALLLY BROKE, partying way to hard on hard drugs i shouldn't have touched - and, in fact, hardly having any sex at ALL

A desperate lonely time for.

Did a "HIstory" degree - learnt NOTHING that i couldn't have gleaned from watching the Discovery challenge and reading books, which i do avidly anyway.

As for my writing talent which i exploit, yeah, part of that was honed with the sophisticated essay skills I develoiped at uni - but i did not need to be slaughtered for four years to do that.

Mass college education is a SCAM that feeds these overblown university systems with untold wealth

 

[Vigilante]

I HATE to be the one to bump a college thread, but I thought this tidbit was worthy of the scorn of bumping the thread.

One of the people I am friends with on LinkedIn announced her new gig as a professor of entrepreneurship at a college in her area.

Her credentials? She worked for a big box retailer as a low level manager (non-director level).

That's it. That's the only company she worked for since college. Actually, to be fair she got a PhD where she became qualified to teach entrepreneurship. Hope she at least was taught by entrepreneurs. This would be akin to me teaching a class on brain surgery. But hell... at least it's entrepreneurship. Anyone can do this, right? Study macro and micro economics, talk about supply and demand curves, and equip the next generation of students to then... teach the next generation of students.

That's who is teaching entrepreneurship at that local (mid-sized!) college.

If you are going to go to college, who are you learning from? I have a friend who retired from Microsoft at a young age, and decided to teach business. Cool. He could talk about business. If I were a student, I would listen to a professor like him that could talk from first hand experience about what it was like working and driving an industry leader.

However, I would prefer that my professor in entrepreneurship was - at some point - an entrepreneur.

 

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[The-J]

Too often I read "I was in school, but it was just a waste of time. I'm going to work on my Fastlane business instead". I'm gonna say 90% of the people that choose to drop out "because it was a waste of time" are just lazy and use the Fastlane Business pursuit as a convenient excuse.

This.

If you don't wanna put the work in to complete a degree, what makes you think that you'll put in the work to build a business?

 

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[Blhhi]

Are you willing to spend all those resources in the hopes of making friends and having a great time? I tried hard, but I not only met MORE people, but better QUALITY people just on this forum in 1 month than 3 years of college.

This. A thousand times this.

Never, ever, ever let anyone tell you to go to college to "get the experience" and "live life." These people are gauranteed to have spent 70% of their "experience" sitting in boring classes, their dorm rooms, or the library. You know where I met the coolest people my age? Japan.

I went to Japan two years ago with my own money because the school trip cost too much and I refused to be left behind. At the hostel I stayed in, I met a graphics programmer and 3D animator from California, a poet from China, a soccer player from France, and a "mathlete" who came to the country for some competitions. These guys were awesome, between 18 and 24, and provided much more interesting conversation in 2 weeks than I got in the 2 years I had spent in college to that point.

If you want to live life and meet people, go live life and meet people. But please, dear god, don't go to college!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

but the process of getting them is extraordinarily wasteful.

Someone should use the old "compound interest" memetic against the pro-college shills...

Put the money you saved by NOT going to college in an index fund for 50 years, and at the end of the term, not going to college would be worth millions.

 

[dknise]

So glad to see all the people here disagreeing! I'll tell you why...

Yikes! Just posted and didn't realized I wrote a book. If you TLDR, I'll understand. Warning, true rant follows haha!

I've always been a smart kid. I graduated high school with all my "college" credit math classes and a good GPA, but for what? To get into a good college. I attended Washington State University for one year... well going to WSU was probably my FIRST problem, but it wasn't my only. There's a section of MJ's book that I literally was like screw this guy, he stole the words right out of my mouth for the book I would have written in twenty years. I still remember my first day of ECON101. Walk into class, sit down with 400 other students, and find out my teacher is a 23 year old guy who double majored in business management and finance. His exact words were "I'm going to teach you how to make a million dollars." The only problem was, for me... that I saw the hypocrisy in the fact that a 23 year old guy that had never left the WSU campus or owned a business, was going to teach me about making a multi million dollar business. 400 of us paying $35 per class to a guy who had ZERO experience. There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with that.

My second wake up call was going to ME110 for mechanical engineering. My teacher was a graduate of WSU in my degree of interest! After two years in the field, he couldn't keep a job because he was just too underqualified and couldn't do what was demanded of him. His fond memories of drinking and romping with beer-chubs, loosely moralled girls from his days at the fine WSU campus called out to him. After two more years of school, he was back at WSU teaching my class, for the first time.

For the record, MJ's example in the book is going to a "health" cooking class being taught by a fat guy, hahaha.

Wake up call #3 happened in my second calculus class. My first teacher didn't speak English. He actually taught our class of 400 in which 30 attended in Italian. True story. My second class was taught by a scruffy old guy with his shirt un-buttoned who sipped Jack Daniels during class and would randomly go on rants about his recent divorce. This reinforced wake up calls #1 and #2, but then there was my Calc TA, teachers assistant. Twice a week we would meet with this guy in a classroom with 30 other students from the 400. Only 4 or 5 of us ever showed up. It just so happens... this guy was a former mathematician at NASA, who was going around to PAC10 schools teaching Calculus for free to students. His pay came in the emotional reward of passing on his knowledge to younger people, and I will never, ever forget him. Time and time again, he could explain the most complicated problems methodically, and above the level required for the class. If class was only 45 minutes, there wasn't a problem if we stayed for an hour and a half, his time wasn't bound to his wealth equation. He was the best teacher I've ever had.

Back in my 6 x 8 frat room shared with another guy, I started to think "does anyone feel like this is a complete joke besides me? Am I completely alone? Does no one realize we are paying the wrong people to teach us!?" And that's when I found Steve Jobs 2005 commencement speech at Stanford. Validation. I recently got another dose of validation after reading MJ's book.

It's been 3 years, and I've done everything under the sun since then. Been burned, seen great success, partied harder than the college kids, and am not in debt 60k, but have 60k in the bank. I just quit a job a software engineering job at Microsoft after learning programming from books authored by THE sources on the topics. While there, I got to see countless Computer Science majors a year older than I fail and be fired, while I continually got given more responsibilities. Now I'm 22, quitting the corporate rat race that all the in debt college grads are so eager to get into for the next 30 years. Pro experience under my belt, fat paychecks saved up to finance my living expenses during startup, and nothing but freedom and love of what I do ahead.

#endrant

True knowledge and true wealth is more important than a "real education."

 

[DeletedUser394]

1. What are you even talking about? Don't... most 17 year olds... live with their parents? I don't even get your point. Would they be smarter if they were homeless?

2. Most of us accomplish nothing from ages 17 to 23. What are you saying? I should accomplish nothing and go into debt while I do it?

I really don't understand the condescending attitude toward teenagers. What, were you independent and rich before you turned 14? What does anything you two have said even contribute to the conversation?

No, I'm tired of people with no life experience coming on here, latching onto that one central point, and then bashing 95% of the human race that are just living their lives.

It's easy to criticize someone from behind the glass looking outwards.

When a person turns 18 they need to start taking responsibility for their own lives. If they are not enrolled in full time education, they need to grow up, get a job, and move out of their parents house. (Latter part isn't 100% necessary, but providing for oneself when one becomes an adult is the important part, even when living at home.)

I have every respect for the 'evil loser slowlaner' who at 18 goes out and gets their first low wage job in order to pay their own dues. I have no respect for the people on here that do nothing but bash other people that are actually being responsible young adults and doing what they need to do to survive and be independent.

Being 22, with no job, and $20 in your bank account and no prospects of income or employment is not acceptable and I don't understand how a parent could put up with such nonsense.

Like I said, if a person is enrolled and engaged in full time education, then the above doesn't apply. However, laziness, or 'waiting for that right fastlane opportunity', is not a life plan.

The OP, @JackEdwards , personifies what it means to take full responsibility for one's life. He got out there at an early age and made it work. He wasn't on some internet forum bashing people (granted there wasn't internet back then lol ), he just went out and did what needed to be done. If I remember correctly, he was working 2 jobs, including an early paper route to provide for his family. Lots of people here would baulk at 'going so low' as to get TWO jobs, never mind one. But Jack is a beast and did what he had to do at the time.

The entire point of my initial reply has nothing to do with being successful early in life. You are right, most people are not successful at that age, and that's understandable and alright. What isn't alright are the sheer number of people that take zero responsibility for their own well being, and then come on here and criticize the people that do. Or, as @ArthurDayne mentioned, the people with no life experience that are so quick to latch on to that one central idea and immediately discount the value and utility of 'slowlane' tools. Because it's easy to criticize when everything is paid for.

As I said, in the case of under 18s, I don't fault them, because they are naive and have no life experience and I've been there. But once a person reaches adulthood those excuses no longer apply.

 

[Mike39]

I'm honestly tired of seeing pointless debates like this go on in the forum. The college debate for entrepreneurs is like debating religion. People have different perspectives based on their beliefs and experiences, but they refuse to accept there are other perspectives outside of their own.

Instead people take their highly opinionated statements and try to shove it down others throats to prove that they are right, when in fact there is no right and wrong. Going to college may be for you, it may not be for you. It may be the best decision of your life, it may be the worst decision of your life. (Hint: The individual determines if he/she will be successful, not a college degree or lack of it.)

If you think college is right for you, good, but you don't need to go out and argue with people when they disagree. And same vise versa. Eventually the argument almost always breaks down to personal attacks and people getting frustrated. If you chose to present your opinions, do it with the acceptance that other people may disagree and that is ok.

Presenting your viewpoint is fine, but don't present it if you feel the need to debate it to the death with anyone who questions it. Jack presented a valid point for people considering college to look at; you don't see him in here in this soup of useless discussion debating why he is right and you are wrong.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

Most college degrees are mental masturbation plus a surprise.

Debt and your degree having surprisingly little value.

One of the best decisions in my life was to PAY ATTENTION REALLY HARD in school, rather than STUDY really hard like a good boy.

You know what I figured out by paying attention?
"Geez, this is stupid!"

I literally then had the balls, to just stand up, mid class, and say "thanks teacher, but I'm going to leave now"
Teacher: "Ok see you tomorrow"
"Oh no, I won't be coming back"

I walked out and my friends laughed about it for weeks, "haha this is a hilarious joke he is pulling, haha!".


But it wasn't a joke. And I am damn glad I payed attention enough that I wasn't joking when I said it. I was a top percentile student at the time, and was eying up some PhDs.
I came home and I said, "I'm leaving school, gonna figure this out".

I got a job working nights, built a huge bank of cash, that sustained me for like a decade.
I figured out what I wanted to do. Took up business.
Nailed up a goal.

BOOM!

People forget, you don't have to figure it OUT right away, just go work and discover life, then knuckle the f down and pay attention.


Btw, I am horrified by the idea of having NOT done that
What a waste of my life that would have been

You can find rose colored tints to anything, but PAYING ATTENTION sure beat listening to dumb#sses

 

[socaldude]

College is fantastic. As a senior in college majoring in finance I am totally satisfied with the decision. You gain a new perspective in life. Girls everywhere. Partying. Some of the professors were successful entrepreneurs, they help a lot. A shit load of entrepreneur programs. A big a$$ library filled with business books. Very interesting classes(i'm taking RE development this year ) You become way more liberal(at least for me) lol.

BUT you have to pay attention to the COST. State universities cost around 20k a year to attend; 7k for tuition and 13k for housing. Thats the MINIMUM its gonna cost you except if you go to a community college. If you go private were talking 30-50k a year.

For the most part yeah a business degree is pretty useless. Its not what it used to be. Its not a safety net anymore. Why? The market is so saturated. Business degrees are a dime a dozen for employers.

I totally agree with Jackedwards point that most entrepreneurs think that theyre gonna kick a$$ in business right off the Fckn bat from high school. Some will but most don't. Thats why i think people should take a year off before making a decision.

 

[ArthurDayne]

The people that generally are impressed with higher education for the most part are other people with higher education.

With that in mind, a topical joke:

Q: how can you tell someone went to Princeton?
A: they told you.

 

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[NicoleMarie]

Ah what the heck, I'll contribute too. First of all, thank you Jack. I'd like to offer differing points for the sake of discussion.

#1: I agree that college is a must if you're going into a difficult AND in-demand job, such as a doctor, lawyer, etc. However, I think it comes down to asking what value you're really getting for all that time and money. I'm willing to bet successful people didn't drop out because they were quitters or lazy, but because they simply didn't see the value. We're talking around $60,000 and 5-6 years for me to get a Bachelor's Degree (4 years for this degree isn't actually accurate). Now just imagine how far you could progress in 6 years and with all that time and college money saved. Are you willing to spend all those resources in the hopes of making friends and having a great time? I tried hard, but I not only met MORE people, but better QUALITY people just on this forum in 1 month than 3 years of college.

#2: Yes it's true, there is no shortage of access to free/cheap knowledge right on trusty Google and Youtube. Starting a business also gives you a lot to show to future employers if you decide the business route isn't for you. Do you know how much knowledge you could offer even if you failed? In fact, I've noticed myself actually getting SHARPER since starting a business due to the level of multitasking/problem solving needed, and I'm just getting started. The younger you are, the more efficiently you can learn. In my opinion, use that for your business, not for killing that intelligence with alcohol and all nighters. If worst comes to worst, go back to college and try that route.

#3: I've tried both ends and even though I've only been in startup mode for 2 months, it's a massive difference. I was stressing BIG time about my next on campus college because not only would I have to share 1 bathroom/shower with 3 other girls, but I'd also be required to take public speaking classes and other classes that I don't even want, plus major debt. Let's not forget the constant looming thoughts that maybe there isn't a 100% chance your high paying dream job will be waiting just for you when you're done. I'd have to live at home again, try to find a job, and try to save up money/pay off my loan. That adds another how many years.

#4: I considered working on a business while in college, but that's splitting your time into classes, homework, job, business, free time, sleep. Plus it could be a headwind if you're too exhausted after all that. Why not go all out and intense with just a business and maybe a part time job if you need it?

#5: I got grants and scholarships but I still would've had to pay about $30,000 total of money I didn't have. Basically, in order for my decision to switch college for a business to be a bad decision, I'd have to spend more than/lose $30,000 on my business.


Here's what it comes down to. It all depends on what YOU consider valuable. Some people would be miserable in college and just see it as a big inconvenience, while others would say it's the time of their lives. You can't predict 100% how it will go, but then again, you can't with a business either. We all have something lots of those failed businesses don't and that's the odds skewed in our favor. We have MJ's book and this forum, as well as the drive to find the success he did.
Hopefully this gave another perspective from someone who went to college.

 

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[ArthurDayne]

I'm honestly tired of seeing pointless debates like this go on in the forum. The college debate for entrepreneurs is like debating religion. People have different perspectives based on their beliefs and experiences, but they refuse to accept there are other perspectives outside of their own.

Instead people take their highly opinionated statements and try to shove it down others throats to prove that they are right, when in fact there is no right and wrong. Going to college may be for you, it may not be for you. It may be the best decision of your life, it may be the worst decision of your life. (Hint: The individual determines if he/she will be successful, not a college degree or lack of it.)

If you think college is right for you, good, but you don't need to go out and argue with people when they disagree. And same vise versa. Eventually the argument almost always breaks down to personal attacks and people getting frustrated. If you chose to present your opinions, do it with the acceptance that other people may disagree and that is ok.

Presenting your viewpoint is fine, but don't present it if you feel the need to debate it to the death with anyone who questions it. Jack presented a valid point for people considering college to look at; you don't see him in here in this soup of useless discussion debating why he is right and you are wrong.

I see it a bit differently - I'm enjoying what to me seems like a pretty healthy debate. I particularly like reading people's stories. I think someone could go over this thread, see all the argument s for both sides, and make an informed decision.

 

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[Kak]

To tell a target audience of 18-22 that college is a waste of time, in a phase of their life so easily influenced, is pretty dangerous.

I am sure a lot of entrepreneurs finished their college, worked hard and made money slowlane and then went fastlane. The same as a lot of entrepreneurs did it without going to college. It's not a key element to be succesful, going to college. Making money is a key element to be able to have a comfortable life.

I agree. You have to remember that there are many people here that think it will be easy to be an entrepreneur. It is hard and most give up. My take is, if you have no business activity going on, GO, but go cheaply. If you get something started you can always quit and if that doesn't work out you can always go back.

Personally. I would rather be a waiter on the weekends to hold my head up and work on a business during the week than ever working a 9-5 slowlane salaried job that my degree can get me. So for ME (not everyone) college was pointless, but I have a degree, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I may be wishing I had one if I didn't.

 

[Vigilante]

I had a kid painting at my home the other day. He just finished college at the University of Minnesota recently. He busted his a$$ to get through college, and paid cash for the first two years. He took loans for the last two years, and came out of college with a degree in German, and $40,000 worth of debt. His immediate plans are to continue painting. Why? His degree... is in German. The language. He's got to paint a lot to survive, and pay off his $40k debt just to get back to even.

Assume his peers didn't go to college. They started painting 4 years ago. They're 4 years better established than he is, and if they did it right, they have zero debt against his $40,000 debt. Not only do they have 4 years worth of street advantage, but no long term debt. Even if he earns more than they do if he pursues his credentialed profession (debatable on numerous fronts) the crossover point for him as to when the ROI of his degree made sense is a decade or more from now.

Nobody told him that when he was sitting in the high school career counselors office selecting which college he was going to attend.

He's one of the "lucky" ones because he busted his a$$, and as such his debt is only $40k. Most kids don't want to work as hard as he does/did.

He ultimately will be ok. But will he ever use his degree in German?

 

[Runum]

Now I am conflicted, like for the last 2 years I have tried to become an entrepreneur made some mistakes, that I have now recently realized. So I do have a bit of regret, I am not a party head but I could be having fun everyday, partying etc. From the looks of this thread it looks like you are saying don't give your business a full time effort. So much conflicting advice which one do I take? People are telling me same thing enjoy life, go out, etc these are the same people who are not successful and never will be, so what do I do?

You have to put your big boy britches on. You educate yourself about your options and make your choices in life with no regrets. It's your life and you have to make those choices yourself.

There is one thing you learn as you mature, you learn the difference between what just sounds good to you and what you REALLY will do.

You have to make your own life choices and you can't blame anyone for those choices if they don't have the outcome you want.

In other words, time to grow up. Good luck.

 

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[socaldude]

At 1:09 I'd be interested in that case study.

What a shitty video.

This guy basically says the only option you have in becoming rich is amassing 6 figures in debt and learning outdated material.

And then hopping that the job market will give you a good paying job.

All things equal somebody with no debt and a desire to learn and create value will beat anybody who spends 4 years learning outdated material and having 6 figures of debt and sending thousands of resumes on indeed.

The problem with the college statistics these idiots always throw around is exactly that. They never differentiate variables and never distinguish between correlation and causation.

I have always hated how intellectually arrogant academia is. As if they know and understand things that others don't and you gotta be a student to know what they know.

Why anybody would listen to this idiot is beyond me.

Wheras when peter thiel talks about college his reasoning is way more convincing than this guy. I wonder why? Hmm...

 

[socaldude]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the professor in the video speaking out against Peter Thiel has a book promotion at the end of the video?

Yup, you should assume you are not capable of success and go thousands into debt to learn old business material from the 80s.

I posted in this thread a few years ago, and back then my opinion was a tiny tad "pro-college" because I was still in it.

But as I have matured, I have realized my ROI on my college degree is literally negative. Yup, I have made absolutely zero dollars that I can accurately correlate to my business degree. I wish I would have held on to the $30k I used to pay for tuition. Talk about a case of buyers remorse, I want a refund. Worst purchasing decision i've made in my life as far as I can tell.

A college degree is just a worthless piece of paper that oozes of entitlement and false hopes.

Going six figures into debt cause your parents are scared to death that your gonna be homeless and without a college degree when you grow up is ridiculous.

 

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[Choate]

What I did in college:

- Played 4 years of rugby. High school sports are nothing like college rugby. This is an animal by itself.
- 4 years of water polo. Sport was fun as hell and I loved it, never would have played otherwise.
- Intramural soccer / basketball. Followed up my youth passions and improved by playing random people, walking to the gym, which was literally 30 seconds from where I lived.
- Hit the gym hard. Best shape of my life.
- Ate like a monster. Got on the highest meal plan I could regardless of cost, which was 19 a week. All you could eat. Buffet style. Pretty healthy if you chose to eat so. In this respect, I got up to 210 pounds in college, pretty built. 2 months after I'm back down to 185 pounds because I can't eat as much.

- Became a part of numerous student club organizations in the business school. Learned that meetings are a waste of time and no one really gets anything done, and its mostly people tooting their own horn. Real progress is made as individuals and teams outside meetings.
- Managed to study abroad in Europe, visited a few countries, made friends from Australia, Germany, Iceland, etc.
- Majored in entrepreneurship so I could connect with like-minded students, professors who actually have been there done that, mentors, etc.

I put a lot of effort into college, participating in-campus, and getting involved. Its a phase of life I wouldn't have traded away even if I created a successful business. Sure, I could have drank less at times, went out less, etc. but for what? I didn't kill myself and I made sure it didn't distract me from my goals. The times were fun and the girls were hot.


All I'm saying is there is plenty to be learned in college outside of the typical classroom setting. You think its all classes that take up all of your time - bullshit. I was in class for 3 -5 hours per day and maybe studied outside of that, for class, 2-3 hours per day max. This is less than a full time day's of work and you don't have to drive or commute anywhere to boot. Your commute is your walk to class, during which you build up your network.

Life is a balance and by putting yourself on the grind so early on, you are missing out creating other aspects of yourself (such as getting in the gym, networking, becoming a part of the community, different sports teams, getting good with girls, etc.) Just one kid's point of view anywyas.

 

[The-J]

I'm honestly tired of seeing pointless debates like this go on in the forum. The college debate for entrepreneurs is like debating religion. People have different perspectives based on their beliefs and experiences, but they refuse to accept there are other perspectives outside of their own.
Instead people take their highly opinionated statements and try to shove it down others throats to prove that they are right, when in fact there is no right and wrong. Going to college may be for you, it may not be for you. It may be the best decision of your life, it may be the worst decision of your life. (Hint: The individual determines if he/she will be successful, not a college degree or lack of it.)
If you think college is right for you, good, but you don't need to go out and argue with people when they disagree. And same vise versa. Eventually the argument almost always breaks down to personal attacks and people getting frustrated. If you chose to present your opinions, do it with the acceptance that other people may disagree and that is ok.
Presenting your viewpoint is fine, but don't present it if you feel the need to debate it to the death with anyone who questions it. Jack presented a valid point for people considering college to look at; you don't see him in here in this soup of useless discussion debating why he is right and you are wrong.

/board closed

Seriously. This is one of the oldest debates on this forum and it will NEVER be resolved.

If you're going to go to college, know what you're gonna be doing there and know the outcomes of going.

If you're NOT going to go to college... know what you're gonna be doing instead and know the outcomes of not going.

There is no right or wrong answer. People here LOVE to bash college and say it's a waste of time, but all you're doing is judging others based on a choice.

Sure, there are pros and cons to both. But first, lemme clear up some misconceptions that people have about college:

1) You can't work or start a business while in college. Bullshit: I did it, and the biz keeps me clothed, housed, and fed. College takes, if you want good grades, about 25 hours a week, with 15 of that being lectures, 5 of that being assignments, and the other 5 being studying. (Also C's get degrees, and a lot of people won't look at your GPA before looking at your skills)

2) You will go into debt by going to college. Also bullshit. If you're 18 and plan to go to college, start at a local community college and work your way through, then transfer up to a 4-year university. Smart students whose parents make less than $90k/year can go to high-ranked private institutions and most of them will give a large chunk of need-based aid.

3) Going to college will kill their Fastlane dreams. Also bullshit! There are entrepreneur clubs at most colleges, although don't be surprised when you're FAR more advanced than most of the other people there. That's okay, though: teach them and help them out.

4) This is less about college and more about jobs, and that is that getting a job is bad. Angus grass-fed BULLSHIT. Jobs suck, don't get me wrong. But getting a job might be the best thing you could ever do for your entrepreneurial career. It might END your entrepreneurial ambitions, in which case you weren't cut out to be one anyway (sorry). It also might teach you a little something about a business to get into. You might find a need that nobody else can see. You might learn some skills that you can build your own service business off of. You might meet people that will help you later on down the road.

I'm not advocating taking one path or another. But I'm kinda sick of this debate, from both sides.

 

[Vigilante]

@Vigilante The problem that has been running through my head that keeps convincing me to go to college for business is the fact that I know nothing about the workings of a business. How could I start a business, or even plan a business without proper knowledge of how it all works? I mean, I've researched and read books and tried to put it all together, but I've learned theres a lot more to business than what I expected.

What's your take on this?

My father used to own an executive recruiting agency. One day, CIO magazine called me regarding recruiting. What I told them is that we would rather recruit someone with real world experience than someone who read about it in a book. In many cases, business professors never ran a business, and teach on theory. At a minimum, if I were going to business school, I would want to make sure that the people that were teaching me... had actually built a business previously. Many times, retired business people then volunteer to teach at colleges and community colleges.

The best way to learn business is to work at a business. Become the best employee anyone ever had and you will learn everything you want to learn about business. Study what works, what doesn't, how accounting works, what makes people effective managers, leaders, and what makes a good employee. Study what doesn't work, and what you would do differently if you owned the business.

You can either read about it in a book, or experience it first hand.

 

[Kak]

Let's say you enter the world of consultancy (can make lots of money there slowlane, make a book about your expertise..or hire employees..to get fastlane), do you think a degree might matter in those cases? Wouldn't a company want to see that you know what you are talking about?

That's probably what you meant with the second?

College does not teach you how to be a consultant in anything. Experience does.

 

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