former student of the foundation(dane maxwell) willing to answer questions

[GregH]

Greg... How much money did you spend chasing this?

-the fee for the foundation was 4,000 ( excuse me 3,997)
-they had us use tout app at i think 20-30 bucks a month x5 months - $100
-other fees were just stuff like skype bills, copywriting books ect nothing expensive 20-50 bucks

so roughly $4,000

 

[GregH]

Adrian/Greg,

Based on what you know now, do you feel like if someone has an understanding of business and the web space that the only thing the foundation offers is a group of like-minded people or do Dane and Andy offer their opinion on how to strategically position your solution?

I really enjoy the podcasts that they provide and feel like if anyone were to compile those lessons they would have a much higher chance of success rather than just going in blind.

When analyzing industries, did you stay in your geographic area or were you able to look in any market?

Also, thanks for your replies, this has been really insightful.

sure no problem , glad I could provide any help at all

to answer your question...

even if you had a good understanding of business and the web space I wouldnt join just to talk with like minded people-- I really think you can do that on here.. Just let people know you are trying to start a SaaS and then ask for specific advice-- also there are blogs and e-books out there you can read that provide good info

Dane/Andy Ive seen offer opinions on strategy with some of the more advanced students and Im sure there were many many talks I wasnt privy too-- that being said, thats atleast $4,000 ( and I think the price is going up this year) to ask someone who doesnt know your market at all for advice... my feeling is mehh i dunno I wouldnt

Dane is a brilliant marketer but in all honesty I dont think hes a great SaaS starter/owner-- his "mindset" is geared for marketing and for some reason now helping people overcome "limiting beliefs" like a new age doctor ( he did help many people to be honest..i think)

if you were going in blind-- just re-read what I said about the process and what Id do if I started over again and you're pretty much caught up... any missing pieces I would ask people on here for advice

when analyzing industries I actually paid no attention to local businesses-- I just used various websites to contact people

I cannot stress enough how much I think starting a blog would help jumpstart the process and make it easier on a whole

best of luck and if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask

 

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[GregH]

DennisDuty, Vigilante I agree. The only one to blame, in my case..well..is ME. When I joined I didn't expect somebody else to magically hand over a 5-6 figures per year for me. I've been there once I know how hard it is to get even the smallest gain.

I joined because I constantly invest in myself, I want to learn more. The issue I see here is the "perceived value" and what it really is.

If I remember right, MJ said this: You walk in a fitness class (with the right mindset to drop weight to become healthy, to learn about it, etc) and all of a sudden a FAT guy comes and stands in front of you. That's your MENTOR. A FAT guy who know everything about the diet and getting that 6-pack abs.


Here's a thing I NEVER SEEN, EVER in any webinar, marketing /seminar, you name it:

Man, if you did this ONCE, the SAME WAY you teach us, then fine - START WITH US. We start from 0, you start from 0 with us. You fail, we fail. We ALL learn. Great thing that we have something to relay on (that you already did) but you start with us. People teach you to do this, do that, go talk to X, Y, Z bla..bla...bla...but it's actually one thing to GO TALK and other thing to simply lay out a beautiful plan. In my opinion if you don't take the same steps that we take, you're basically telling a nice story on how you succeeded. But what about that 100 A/B tests you took on the Landing Page or those 40 people you interviewed?


If the intention is to help people THEN why on earth do I see these *marketing signs* in most sales funnels (big launches):

- "We are not sure yet if we are going to accept you in the program. We'll have to think about it and send a reply in a few days"
- You JUST pay 3 payments of 997, or 97, or 1997 $ and you can have access to the program (Ohh really? Why "97" or "197" why these digits "9", "7" and not simply $1000 or $100. BECAUSE IT SELLS. That's why. X GURU discovered this. Let's follow him)
- ACT NOW. BUY NOW. ONLY 3 PLACES LEFT. CLOSING TONIGHT.
- P.S. and P.P.S at the end of the letter with the CEO signature or face
- This BONUS that it's worth $999999999 but because we are BUDDIES I'll give it for $9
- 30, 90, 365 MONEY BACK GUARANTEE
- Pay 5 figures to meet the GURU, the CEO, the MASTER in a SUPER SECRET LOCATION where..hmm...maybe you'll drink some coca cola and play football and see how great it is to be a CEO.

I've NEVER seen any of these so called "marketing tricks" at MJ. Why didn't he promote his book like this? There's no need to. It's such tremendous value inside the book.

To end this, I have nothing against Dane, it's just I can not trust what he says. I've seen too many of these "marketing tricks" that I'm sick of. It's almost to the point where it's chaotic. Don't believe me? Try your spam folder. Reverse the path of any offer you have there.

I totally feel where Adrian is coming from

as a side note I will say Pat Flynn does build a niche/authority site along with his readers and he gives answers right away as to what he did wrong and does it for free... Pat is really one of the only good guy info marketers out there-- and shockingly Dane dropped Pat Flynn's name during the advertising for the foundation-- this is one of those things that made me buy in-- Pat says its okay-- it must not be a scam


but to address another one of Adrians points...

Dane did often repeat his story of how he built his own SaaS

what I found a little odd was that Dane didn't "idea extract" the idea-- but had a family member/friend give him the idea and insist that he make it-- which to his credit he did and did very well

the whole foundation was about the concept called " idea extraction" -- and I wish Dane did the process himself live or uploaded and recorded many calls that he did-- he only uploaded 9/10 of one call he did to a pool cleaning industry

I would have LOOOVED to see Dane do a screen cast of choosing a new industry, and audio of 10-15 idea extraction calls then emails he sent out

it felt very theoretical

maybe Im just coming off as angry and sour but those are just the feelings I had

 

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[GregH]

I appreciate you ex-students of the Foundation for doing this AMA. I applied for The Foundation but just cancelled it (spam folder'd those e-mails). I'd much rather take my chances on my own ventures with $4000 and learn from my own mistakes. No offense or anything, I'm sure The Foundation provides some insight. But from everything that you all have mentioned...someone could just use that $4k to hire a trustworthy developer if they go the SaaS route.

no problem!

my goal here was not to scare people away from the foundation just provide an honest feedback for what you can expect and what my experiences were-- glad my experienced helped out!

 

[ir_dizzle]

Everyone -

Thanks so much for this thread and providing so much insight about the Foundation. I am [still] on the fence and am unsure if I'm going to join.

My question is (for all past students of the Foundation) why did students like Renata (37 Year Old Female Lumberjack Transforms To Traveling Entrepreneur | The Foundation [I'm sure some of you got this email if you're on the Foundation list]) "succeed" and you guys didn't in your opinion?

I know there are a lot of variables that come into play (some "luck" being one of them) but I'm curious to hear more about what you guys think.

EDIT: Besides her mindset changing, what type of SAAS business did she end up making?

Thanks!
Irwin

 

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[AllenCrawley]

My question is (for all past students of the Foundation) why did students like Renata (37 Year Old Female Lumberjack Transforms To Traveling Entrepreneur | The Foundation [I'm sure some of you got this email if you're on the Foundation list]) "succeed" and you guys didn't in your opinion?

EDIT: Besides her mindset changing, what type of SAAS business did she end up making?

From Dane's current AMA here...

Renata - who didn't make software, but is now selling $10,000 custom website jobs and she's not doing any of the work - using her mindset she learned and mentornship from an awesome Foundation member Amit.

Also, see this post here about some successful students of the foundation:

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/fa...as-membership-sites-education.html#post300142

 

[GregH]

Everyone -

Thanks so much for this thread and providing so much insight about the Foundation. I am [still] on the fence and am unsure if I'm going to join.

My question is (for all past students of the Foundation) why did students like Renata (37 Year Old Female Lumberjack Transforms To Traveling Entrepreneur | The Foundation [I'm sure some of you got this email if you're on the Foundation list]) "succeed" and you guys didn't in your opinion?

I know there are a lot of variables that come into play (some "luck" being one of them) but I'm curious to hear more about what you guys think.

EDIT: Besides her mindset changing, what type of SAAS business did she end up making?

Thanks!
Irwin

sure no problem

Renata didnt build a SaaS company-- Im sure she learned a lot of marketing and sales during the 6 months... the whole "mindset" thing that they use I think can be sometimes over the top

They act as if they are Morpheus and they plug you into a machine and totally re-wire your entire thought process and once you have "it" there is nothing that can stop you : /

they do push for a mindset change/ limiting beliefs / ways to think about business-- but I personally didn't transform into an unstoppable entrepreneur-- BUT I did learn a lot about sales and marketing


Renata I think succeeded in a way that I wasnt shooting for-- I was going for SaaS

I think the reason why I didnt succeed were
- I was a total noob in sales, marketing, copywriting--this made me fall behind
- didnt know much about SaaS or software or what it could or could not do--again I was far behind
-didnt choose the right markets
-didnt get the right personal help
-didnt ask good enough questions when I did have help
- I didnt agree with the way they taught and pushed limiting beliefs which caused me to doubt and be skeptical about much they said
- I knew I didn't have enough money to build out a solid SaaS after seeing how much money it would cost
-maybe just didn't want it enough? I dunno
- ultimately I cant pinpoint why I failed--

 

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[GregH]

Greg, I am not advocating for (or against) The Foundation. I know nothing about this organization. However, I would like to address how you are characterizing your experiences......

Once, on an 8 hour road trip, my husband and I listened to a business podcast (can't remember what the podcast was). The speaker was the founder of a very successful company. She characterized her "failures" as "learning experiences" and her "sunk costs" as "founder's tuition."




If I told you how much my household had spent on "founder's tuition," I would probably throw up. Seriously. Continuing to employ people who were not working out, having a build it and they will come philosophy, trusting without verifying....Our list of mistakes is long and costly. You seem able to identify, specifically, a number of things that kept you from your goal. Ultimately, being able to do that will take you there. Even if your end goal is not in software, you seem to have learned some things from your experience with The Foundation, which is why I challenge you to re-phrase your experience....It was a learning experience, not a failure!

well technically I did fail-- and it was learning experience

one of things I learned was how to market and sell an info product haha ( but seriously)

the biggest thing I learned was how to talk to people on the phone

 

[GregH]

I just wish bad decisions were not so expensive lol.

amen brother

 

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[Tank]

we'll see what happens

Wow, it took months for GregH to decide to ask for a refund.

It took a whole 14 minutes to find out "what happens."

Looks like Dane is an action taker to me. No disrespect intended, GregH, I'm just saying, this is all out in public for us all to see.

IMHO, Dude, I think you should have asked for a redo on enrollment, not a refund. But, that's me.

 

[TedM]

"sunk costs" as "founder's tuition."

i'll have to use that phrase with my wife...

 

[DennisD]

Disclaimer: I don't have strong feelings one way or another on whether the foundation is a good investment or not. To each his own.

on one hand I think there is always room for more hustle and hard work and thinking through problems-- I think if someone held my family hostage and said they would kill them unless i started a SaaS business that I very well might have had a few paying customers

I think you could have too.
If there's some imaginable situation where you could have pulled it off with the right motivation... and you didn't try THAT HARD... then you didn't try hard enough.
You had the ability but didn't do everything needed to succeed.

I worked really hard

I guess what I'm saying is: Whether or not you have a mentor, whether or not you join a program, whether or not you have leadership or guidance... working "really hard" just isn't enough. "Trying" isn't enough.
[video=youtube;BQ4yd2W50No]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No[/video]

if I succeed, it was bc of the foundation, if I failed its my fault

If you succeed, it's because of you. If you fail, it's because of you.

In once scenario you have a mentor/coach to help guide you. In the other scenario you don't. One way might reduce friction... but either way if's the individual that determines their own success.

Like I said.. the foundation isn't my cup of tea. Infomercials playing at 3AM describing a complete guide to making money aren't either. But that doesn't mean that they "don't work".

I think that when people pay money towards things like that, and it doesn't work out... it's very easy to blame it on the course.

Perhaps you're right and you weren't ready. Maybe you didn't have the prerequisite skills needed to succeed. You didn't have the copywriting skill, the marketing skill, the sales skill. Maybe dane needs to put some tighter requirements on who signs up... or makes a prerequisite course they must take first.

The reason you're not where you want to be is because you didn't push hard enough. It's not an insult. I feel the same way about myself. Learning to push harder is something that comes through failure. Not knowing you're capable of pushing harder might be a "self limiting belief" we have to learn to work through.

 

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[GregH]

Hypothetical question...

If someone reads my book but can't sell, can't write, and can't communicate and yet this reader "takes action" for a few weeks, and doesn't get results, does that make my book a scam? Does that make me any less of an instructor?


Originally Posted by D. Maxwell
Your refund will totally be granted dude.
Impressive. Responsive. No fight. No resistance. This is how you run a business and stand behind it. (BTW, I doubt Kiyosaki would be handing out refunds after his $10K seminars.)

No I don't think so MJ,

I read your book and I really liked it-- I think the main difference is that you didn't make bold claims and specific promises

and Yes, Dane's response was a breath of fresh air-- he's a good guy in general, which is why I didnt think it would be a problem

 

[GregH]

My answer is enough calls to get the results you want. Your mileage may vary. If you improve skills and know the market you are calling, it'll take less calls. Until then, it'll take more calls/meetings.

its not a matter of how many I want.. its a matter of how many I can

I sent thousands of emails and managed to get 50-60 calls from those emails.. and from those calls I wasnt able to extract an idea/viable idea/ good idea

thousands of emails... plus hundreds of linkedin/facebook/forum messages----> you just cant go out into the world and kick in someones door and talk to them... ( i did try-- I visited many places in person and had little success at that)

there is a trick to getting people on the phone... not as a easy as you think

 

[Vigilante]

This thread has been productive but it doesn't need to devolve into second guessing who did what. It's been an interesting sidebar to the AMA and hopefully everyone has learned a bit from this discussion.

 

[CommonCents]

its not a matter of how many I want.. its a matter of how many I can

I sent thousands of emails and managed to get 50-60 calls from those emails.. and from those calls I wasnt able to extract an idea/viable idea/ good idea

thousands of emails... plus hundreds of linkedin/facebook/forum messages----> you just cant go out into the world and kick in someones door and talk to them... ( i did try-- I visited many places in person and had little success at that)

there is a trick to getting people on the phone... not as a easy as you think

Yep, you are right, starting/growing a biz is a lot tougher than people think. I do agree w/out prior credibility/rapport and knowledge of a certain industry, its very difficult to get strangers to talk candidly about their problems in detail to uncover opportunities.

 

[GregH]

I'm halfway through this thread but dude....

This just revealed why you have the attitude about your experience that you do.

Whether you believe it or not, you are chasing money. You don't "find" success, you create it.

You still aren't trying to solve problems, you are trying to just be successful. Software may not have been for you, but that was your choice. I do think that mindset is a big part of being an entrepreneur. So there is a valid reason why half of the course is about mindset.

It is interesting to hear perspectives from the students though, don't think I am just trying to put you down here. I think you have some mind tuning to do though before you really become successful. And I truly hope you do.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this..

I do have some questions regarding what you just said however...

Whether you believe it or not, you are chasing money. You don't "find" success, you create it.

what exactly do you mean by chasing money? -- I do want to make money yes, and I realize SaaS has the potential to make a TON of money, I just didn't think it was a right fit for who I am...

E-Commerce I think might be a better option, but then again it might not... how can I know until I try it?... I don't understand whats wrong with trying different things until you see what fits?

You still aren't trying to solve problems, you are trying to just be successful.-- no offense but how would you know?-- I spent 6 months talking about peoples problems with them via email and phone and I may or may not be trying to solve problems with what Im doing right now...

I do think that mindset is a big part of being an entrepreneur. So there is a valid reason why half of the course is about mindset.

I totally agree mindset is important- VERY important... stuff like thinking competition is TERRIBLE ( which it isnt) and having a scarcity mindset are often thoughts that will hold you back.. I don't have a problem with talking mindset-- I Loved MJs book and it was all about mindset

I however just didn't connect with what was taught in the foundation-- many people in there did connect and it helped them a great deal
I just couldn't gel with the teachings... I gelled very well with MJ's book however

I think you have some mind tuning to do though before you really become successful. And I truly hope you do.

oh no doubt, Im not on here trying to say I have it all figured out.. Im soooo far from it. I know I have a long long way to go, and Im always trying to read learn and grow... but just because I didn't connect with one set of teachings doesn't mean Im not open to new ideas

what resources would you suggest for mindset?

 

[GregH]

YES, This is the essence of business and entrepreneurship right here, solve problems and be valuable.

Dane focuses on SaaS solutions because they are scale-able and require less work. MJ advocated internet based business' for this same reason. Everything I am mentioning is reflected in MJ's books, its nothing new and revolutionary. If you were comfortable with software development, the program ma have worked better for you. But the fact is you probably got into the program not because you were into software dev and wanted to find a way to be more successful with it through solving problems. You more than likely saw, create a business that makes you a lot of money with not a lot of work.

Dane may or may not pitch it that way, I imagine he does, because in all honestly it sells. The principles he teaches are solid, the method of delivery just did not align with your skillsets.

okay cool Im glad were on the same plane

-- perhaps you are right in me choosing the foundation for it being easy and passive income--

but I do understand the basics of the business and entrepreneurism and did so before joining the foundation-- I am a big fan of Noah Kagan and App Sumo and also I re-read MJs book twice and really liked it.

I think what also sold me onto the foundation was that it was billed as "no software experience required" and also " have others pay for the development cost"

when I got into the meat and potatoes I really think not knowing software really hurt me and I didn't think it was possible to have others pay for development

so I was doing the process of talking to people about their pain but I was ignoring anything that wasnt SaaS related and when they talked to be about solving their problem with software my eyes glassed over and had no idea what was going on

in the future when someone says their biggest pain is " we need a brand new system for our POS sales system linked up with the main server at HQ in Florida"-- my next question might be " so whats your 2nd biggest pain?"

thanks for the advice btw

 

[Vigilante]

TC

You called me out at lunch. So, here you go. I have many reservations about Dane and his deal particularly, substance verses sales (hype). Moreover I'm interested that a program that was openly scoffed at here a year ago has now received an endorsement in an open invitation to pitch his deal.

Normally, when I'm uncertain about what I think I'm witnessing I stay quiet and watch hoping to learn more. However, you're right. it's not fair of me to let you stand out here alone.

You are not alone.

jon

In defense of MJ's position on this (not that I am his spokesperson --- I'm not ---but I have had a limited side bar with him on this topic), he is not pro nor con. He is not endorsing the platform. He's on the sidelines.

I can say that I personally was skeptical, but have been impressed with the answers. I don't endorse the program, but I am now convinced there's not a snake oil salesman behind it the way we generally tar and feather information brokers.

You are not reading that MJ or his forum have given an open endorsement to the Foundation. However, I do think the dialogue has been excellent, primarily because of Dane's willingness to engage in an open dialogue.

If you look at the statistics he posted, they're not great. But.. he didn't try and sugar coat the results, although the metrics are getting stronger.

I am not sure what the right success statistics are for any program like that. However, I have seen a relatively transparent value proposition put forth, with some pretty clear result statistics. At a minimum, anyone investigating the program can walk into it with their eyes wide open.

So, I don't blame you Jon or anyone that is on the fence. I thought that TopChef's post was excellent. You and I see eye to eye on 99.9% of the world, this topic likely included. I am not on the bandwagon, and certainly not about to endorse his program. However, I do applaud MJ for bringing this AMA in here... as before he did it I would have told him not to.

I learned some things.

 

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[jon.a]

You know that I respect your option. I will go back to observing. Having not much more than a passing interest in the foundation there's really nothing else for me to do. The community has everyone's back and all is good.

In defense of MJ's position on this (not that I am his spokesperson --- I'm not ---but I have had a limited side bar with him on this topic), he is not pro nor con. He is not endorsing the platform. He's on the sidelines.

I can say that I personally was skeptical, but have been impressed with the answers. I don't endorse the program, but I am now convinced there's not a snake oil salesman behind it the way we generally tar and feather information brokers.

You are not reading that MJ or his forum have given an open endorsement to the Foundation. However, I do think the dialogue has been excellent, primarily because of Dane's willingness to engage in an open dialogue.

If you look at the statistics he posted, they're not great. But.. he didn't try and sugar coat the results, although the metrics are getting stronger.

I am not sure what the right success statistics are for any program like that. However, I have seen a relatively transparent value proposition put forth, with some pretty clear result statistics. At a minimum, anyone investigating the program can walk into it with their eyes wide open.

So, I don't blame you Jon or anyone that is on the fence. You and I see eye to eye on 99.9% of the world, this topic likely included. I am not on the bandwagon, and certainly not about to endorse his program. However, I do applaud MJ for bringing this AMA in here... as before he did it I would have told him not to.

I learned some things.

 

[LightHouse]

I was a foundation member this last class. I'll get on here later and answer any questions you might have but yes, the Foundation is a crock of shit save one thing... it's full of people trying to achieve the same thing so I built some nice friendships. Other than that it was pretty much worthless.

I have three SaaS companies (not a result of the Foundation). IBERA Global Take5 Temp and another forthcoming. In the past I have had other startups too.

It wasn't worthless because of how much I know already it was worthless because he charged 10 times what it was worth. Everything you learn in the Foundation could be learned by reading a few books: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki, Running Lean by Ash Maura, Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes, and there's probably a good book on copy writing out there somewhere. All of those books are pretty easy reads as well. He could have handed out a reading list and had discussion groups and it would have been worthwhile at 1/10th the price.

Instead I like Amy Hoy's program much better. She at least has respect for the participants. Most of the content in the Foundation felt thrown together at the last minute and a significant portion consisted of phone calls he did with people not original content.

The mentors, while great people had terribly little experience. Let me give you an example, there's a guy in my city that sold his last software company for $200 million. I took the guy to lunch and asked him about a business idea I had. In that one hour he blew my mind with more information than I got in the 3 months I was in the Foundation.

A sinister problem with the Foundation is he has you rely on indian offshoring for development. This is a huge gamble and will wind up costing those Foundationers that do build a company 3 times over. Source: I've been managing and developing software for the past 15 years and I have done more off shore projects than I can count. I've never even heard of, much less seen, a successful offshoring effort with India. I can explain that later if someone is interested.

The truth behind the Foundation is that Andy Drish is a fantastic marketer. I would partner with that guy in a heart beat. Dane though? Total amateur.

If you have the time, you should certainly start a separate thread! That way the questions/answers can be separated.

 

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[JEdwards]

I was a foundation member this last class. I'll get on here later and answer any questions you might have but yes, the Foundation is a crock of shit save one thing... it's full of people trying to achieve the same thing so I built some nice friendships. Other than that it was pretty much worthless.

I have three SaaS companies (not a result of the Foundation). IBERA Global Take5 Temp and another forthcoming. In the past I have had other startups too.

It wasn't worthless because of how much I know already it was worthless because he charged 10 times what it was worth. Everything you learn in the Foundation could be learned by reading a few books: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki, Running Lean by Ash Maura, Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes, and there's probably a good book on copy writing out there somewhere. All of those books are pretty easy reads as well. He could have handed out a reading list and had discussion groups and it would have been worthwhile at 1/10th the price.

Instead I like Amy Hoy's program much better. She at least has respect for the participants. Most of the content in the Foundation felt thrown together at the last minute and a significant portion consisted of phone calls he did with people not original content.

The mentors, while great people had terribly little experience. Let me give you an example, there's a guy in my city that sold his last software company for $200 million. I took the guy to lunch and asked him about a business idea I had. In that one hour he blew my mind with more information than I got in the 3 months I was in the Foundation.

A sinister problem with the Foundation is he has you rely on indian offshoring for development. This is a huge gamble and will wind up costing those Foundationers that do build a company 3 times over. Source: I've been managing and developing software for the past 15 years and I have done more off shore projects than I can count. I've never even heard of, much less seen, a successful offshoring effort with India. I can explain that later if someone is interested.

The truth behind the Foundation is that Andy Drish is a fantastic marketer. I would partner with that guy in a heart beat. Dane though? Total amateur.

Your comparing apples to oranges. I read a book, so it is much more worth while than a seminar. I met with a guy that sold his biz for 200 million he liked my idea that blows away a meeting I paid money for. Etc etc.

The fact that you have been in the "biz" 15 years and know everything there is to know has tainted your view and opinion. Take a new guy who knows zero who learns something, anything in the right direction of opening their own biz and the foundation could be worth it for them.

Did you ask for and receive a refund? Or is that what this post is for?

 

[orangjul]

I'm glad I found this thread. I just listened to a podcast interview by Pat Flynn with Dane Maxwell and felt very inspired. The podcast had some great content that made me think. I looked at the Foundation website very briefly, but seeing the heavy marketing definitely rose a red flag for me so I decided to come on here and do a quick search. Glad I got to read some feedback from actual students about the course and didn't waste any time considering it any more. Thanks everyone for sharing.

 

[Tregan]

So I'm curious, did Dane ever post a video response to GregH? I didn't see it.

 

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[Heisenberg]

I would have no problem with what Dane is doing if it wasn't marketed directly towards beginners (read title: The Foundation). He sound at least make it clear that it is not as easy as he makes it sounds. He should make it clear that for every 9 out of 10 people reading his long, promising sales letter, would not come out with a business. And that those who are lucky enough to come out with a business are likely to go bust within the next 12 months as that is the nature of business.

The most ethical thing he could do is target more intermediate entrepreneurs instead of clueless kids, because only those people are really gonna get their money's worth - but he would never do that as there will be significantly less money in it for him.

 

[GregH]

No problem

 

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[Vanessa]

This was a fascinating read.

Agree that the OP came off pretty well: worked hard by his own standards, invested time and money of his own. Dane impressed me with his refund offer, although naturally he gets "good press" for doing so, and honestly I think the refund is owed if the purchaser wants it. (promises were grander than could be delivered in that time)

Where the OP could have done better in my humble opinion:
I was cringing so much as he described the 6 months he spent (sorry "wasted" according to him) before he realized that he was "nowhere near" his goal - that he didn't know enough.

Good. I agree, it takes about 6 months to realize I'm a total idiot that has only just realized the magnitude of his ignorance.
But then you gave up??? MAAAAAAN wtf?

Put another way, you spent six months learning that you were a complete idiot.. that you knew nothing.. and then were just like.. "OK."

"On to the next thing where I'll probably be an idiot in that too." (Nothing personal I just mean we're all idiots when we start something brand-new to us)

Those 6 months have to be invested to get to ground zero. But now you see WHAT needs to be learned... even if it's a MASSIVE undertaking.. that's the whole thing about business, and success, it always SEEMS insurmountable, you have to know that it only SEEMS that way.

Imagine this:
6 months - learning the absolute basics, the terminology, "learning what you need to learn", coming up with ideas
6 more months - refining ideas, starting to learn the specific things you'll need, even though you're a novice
6 more months - your business idea seems valid after many refinements. You're now at an intermediate level of knowledge in the field
6 more months - Serious progress has been made. You've outsourced a few major tasks; because of the last 18 months, you're somewhat qualified to evaluate employees, and even one or two hiring mistakes doesn't set you back, because now you see them as learning experiences.
6 more months - with the help of the best employees, you learn faster and faster. Product moves to operational stages and starts testing
6 more months - product iterates to a professional level of quality.You're no programmer now, but you're quite an experienced manager of programmers. You're confident that you could manage another team and do it even better next time
6 more months - product cashflow is respectable. It's not what you originally set out to hit (it's about half that) BUT!! Now you have a founder's education in this field

So far, elapsed time is 3.5 years, and you have a moderately-profitable software product
But more importantly, you've just finished your basic"free education" as a software enterprise founder and CEO

Now everything is accelerated. Let's try again on our SECOND software product.
6 months - researching a far larger, more important, more difficult need for your next software product and laying out a plan
6 months - getting the rough design made, finding first customers
6 months - improving everything with feedback and get to a nice, stable profitable software product
6 months - grow grow grow, and also package with previous software product if possible

Now, 5.5 years have gone by and you have 2 profitable software products along with the know-how to quickly brainstorm, plan, design, create, market, and grow your software sales.

Let's give it a few more steps:
6 months - document everything that keeps the business running
6 months - start shopping buyers and getting legal and financial advice
6 months - conclude the sale with the best offer

Total elapsed time: 7 years - build a software company, brought it to profitability and exited by selling it to a giant tech company

But just to put in perspective, you referenced "6 months" as some huge time investment. Not to be harsh, but buddy, friend, 6 months is just long enough for the trek to the base-camp of the mountain where you set up tent and gaze in awe at the magnitude of the climb awaiting you - but don't gaze too long.

MJ says it's all about process - the process of climbing a little of the mountain each day, for as long as it takes, no matter which of your friends fall of the face to their death, no matter what of your tools break.

I believe you've probably gotten that, by reading the responses to this thread. You don't fail or succeed because of your training, or your mentors.

You fail or succeed because you have either accepted failure as an option, or you have not. I have not. I'm not counting days, months, miles to the summit. I'm just deciding what I need to do today and then doing it.

I'll pull you up if you pull me up. Keep at it man, I wish I'd started in software back when I first moved to self-employment. Honestly, software is where the REAL money is.

Bravo! very well said. So inspiring Young-gun! I like the last part "I'll pull you up if you pull me up."

 

[JAVB]

So the video-answer never came?

I was also looking into The Foundation... but here's the thing with these type of programs: There's no way the authors would make "more money" with "less work" with The Foundation than applying the "guaranteed" process they teach to two o three SaaS of their own. Dane says his SaaS is now a multimillion dollar company, so why, why, why would you charge people $4K?

Dane says this is just about passion, dream, and helping people. So it's not about the money. Isn't actually about helping Entrepreneurs? Ok, so make it free. Heck, charge people $100, with the promise of refunding it just to those that stick around till the end. Make it free, and make the application process HARD and REAL. Accept only the best potential entrepreneurs. Make it your legacy, and let the "acceptance" be the real filter, not the price tag.

I gotta give it to them, their marketing is superb! And that's precisely the problem.

I can't say The Foundation is a scam or that it doesn't work. I didn't enroll, nor will I. What I'm trying to do here is to point out the basic problem info and educational products have when they make blunt promises and have high price tags. Whether this program works or not, it is fighting a hard to win battle from the very beginning.

If you have created a multi-million dollar SaaS businesses, you don't need to charge people $4K for an online "course" and implement highly sophisticated marketing techniques. It definitely seems that what's turning the author rich is actually the course in itself and not that he's coming to the table already rich and wealthy. (even if that's not the case, it's a perception problem)

@MJ DeMarco created his books and put them out there. Good quality, freaking awesome books. He didn't care about marketing or super crazy squeeze pages or whatever. The book was superb and its quality and value in a market willing to go for it made it a success. Period. Had @MJ DeMarco charge TOP dollars for a seminar where he'd teach the same in the book, we would've had to fight the same skepticism all these other info products fight.

 

[goodfella]

What was it like? why did you fail?

 

[GregH]

congrats

thanks man!