former student of the foundation(dane maxwell) willing to answer questions

[Vigilante]

Conversely, if you succeed, it's the program. If you fail, it's "self limiting belief."

If it works, it's them. If it fails, it's you. Any questions?

 

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[GregH]

I disagree.

I'd love to hear the story.

thanks MJ!

so I did a pretty good recap in my first long post about my experience-- but ill go into a little bit more detail


to begin I just would like to say that you were so right on the money about these types of info products sold by Gurus

there is always more money in selling the info than doing it yourself....

Also... looking back I cannot help but be amazed by the process/copywriting/launch/marketing tactics to sell people to get into the foundation by dane maxwell... he is very talented in this arena and if I were ever to do an info product-- i would try to do what he did with the foundation

so the story

--------

after you "apply" to get into the foundation... he sends you an email saying "you're in"

you feel almost honored to be let in and give them your money... (it reminds me a lot of colleges)

you are given access to the facebook group and hipchat community

you have to start by listening to a lot of audio-- in fact its a TON of audio ( i personally didnt like it because the sessions were very unpolished)

then you have to take a personality test ( im skeptical of this kind of stuff but I did it anyway)

following that you go through PDFs about how it all works-- that was good.. the PDFs were done very well and gave good info

stuff like
- the type of markets you should go after
- what makes a good market a good market
-how to actually interview people* ( this is the biggest aspect to the whole "system")

* its called "idea extraction" but its basically interviewing people and asking them questions-- i learned how to communicate with people better using this style... basically not being as timid and nervous all the time asking for what I wanted from people and that I shouldnt feel like im bothering people because im trying to help them solve a problem

so at this point im really liking the whole system-- its very fastlane ( find a problem and solve it)

the problem was just the massive amounts of information that was not laid out at all-- dane would always do interviews and help sessions and pretty much whatever was on his mind and upload it to the content section

this made the content section almost useless because you get bogged down with a ton of unactionable stuff

----

anyway they tell you to make cold calls using Chet Holmes style ( google it)
then send out emails using toutapp with the script they provided to set up times to talk to people

where I went wrong was choosing a market... i think a lot of people did to

the reason?

bc I think every market has problems that need solved BUT not every market seemed to have a problem that could be solved by 1 person who knows nothing about SaaS ( software as a service) and with a limited budget AND that only solves a simple easy problem such as making simple reports....

I was emailing and calling all the wrong businesses
parking garages, waste removal, golf courses---> yeesh I must have went through about 15 markets?-- I should have stuck with just one and roughed it out but thats where the system broke down-- I didnt have that one on one with dane to help me solve that problem

dane recruited tutors or teachers to give 1 on 1 sessions for help -- these teachers often didnt build saas of their own

also whenever you would actually talk with dane-- he was very new-age/ steve jobs/ therapist with you

"how does that make you feel?", "what does your heart/gut say?", "it sounds like a limiting belief", "does this problem root back to your childhood?"

okay maybe im being a bit unfair here but honestly I just wanted help with actionable steps not a therapy session

so I sent thousands of emails and cold called/ warm called about 50-60 people... I did get better at interviewing-- that was a plus!

(I learned about copywriting there as well)

the problem I kept running into was that if I found a problem people wanted solved i had NO IDEA if I could solve it or not ( remember im a newbie to software)

that made it hard-- i had dozens of problems and complaints but nothing that I think I could solve-- and when I told people I dont think I can tackle this problem I was met with " you have a limiting belief" GRRRRR dammit everyone is talking like Yoda now in the foundation

I kept changing markets-- kept calling, emailing, research, in person visits all having no idea what I was doing

The material was piling up ( audio of interviews. webinars ect) and I couldnt get through it ... I was behind ( as were many)

I think towards the end, I was just trying anything... I stuck with one market ( print shop owners) and pushed haaaard... I visited 10 in person and just tried to get ANYTHING out of them... nothing

I gave up for a week-- and came back and wanted to talk to dane-- i wanted help-- he did jump on the phone with me ( he does a good job of getting on the phone, he must of spent a lot of time on the phone)-- but his advice was just more limiting belief stuff

I finally just gave up--

looking back-- i was proud of how much action I took.. i read a lot of books-- learned about marketing/copywriting/ ect

and Im proud I worked hard-- I just think in the end it wasnt a fit for where I was in my entrepreneur journey

it also ( in a sick way) makes me feel good that almost everyone didnt end up with a business like promised at the start
I think I felt like a failure and stupid, but in reality it was just a losing fight from the start-- to think you could go from nothing to a saas business with paying customers in 6 months

I was taken in by the awesome promises and copy and talk of find a problem and solve it
but the whole process was too much for me

I hope I didnt talk too badly about the foundation or dane here-- it was just my personal experience and if I helped just one person make the right decision to join or not to join then Im happy

please ask me any questions you have

p.s

im currently looking into starting an e-com business--

 

[AdrianN]

Let's dissect the info a bit better, as I was a student of TheFoundation v2 too:

I agree with GregH in most parts and as we all know that 1000 people come in, few stick till the end and maybe 1 succeeds (in every training). But who succeeds most of the time? The one who provides the service/training/ etc, right? (the one who sells not the one who buys)

This program generated half of million $ in sales last year. From all the students, who generated at least $100k? (I'll let others who participated, answer this).


About technology/programming/hiring a programmer and so on:

By profession, I am a software engineer and I know the ins/outs of how to code. One of the "solution" for hiring a coder, that they gave, was to go to Odesk/Elance/Guru and post a job using a "text template" asking for the best coder. And then start filtering and decide on one programmer.

Now I'm telling you this: If you DON'T know how to code, or you don't know somebody (a programmer) who can assist you in monitoring the ones you're hiring, YOU ARE TAKING A TREMENDOUS RISK.

Why?

Well they will spot you instantly, that you're a newbie and they will play you all day long. Remember I'm not talking about web design or some fancy "javascript" tricks for your site. I'm talking about a software (either web based/cloud or desktop based) that can actually perform.

And after all this, there is the "testing" part. Some might underestimate it, but THIS is a continuous process for the SAAS. How come? Only when you start using the software you can actually detect bugs: overloads, memory crash, variable allocation and so on. At this point you kind of depend on your programmer (and the speed of execution they have).

Did you know that each programmer has an individual coding style? This means that you have to tell them to write a clean code and use a lot of ("//" comment lines) so the next programmer who will code, will clearly understand what on earth was coded there (I bet most of you didn't know this).

Back to TheFoundation, one of Dane's SAAS was "pipeline" something. Well rest assured that he didn't go blind in this market. He had family members who were in this niche for a decade and already knew the ins and outs.

Of course Dane was asking "how do you feel about it" and doing that "yoga/zen" thing because there's NO WAY to give a precise answer to a question, in a market you have NO IDEA about.

As you probably saw the new AMA from him, well I believe that's most likely because ( I can bet on this) he's going to launch the new Foundation soon. My inbox is bleeding with this kind of emails. They are pushing hard to launch.

The only thing that I really found valuable and interesting was the way that HE SOLD to us. The pre-sale funnel, email squeeze page, designs, interviews with big names. That's what has to be learned.

Yes MJ, you were right in the first place. Boy oh boy, this Internet is filled with lots of kids and sharks.

 

[D. Maxwell]

Greg, hey man. I'm compiling an awesome video reply to address your questions and comments.

It was hard to hear. But thank you.

Your refund will totally be granted dude.

I'm really sorry you don't feel it was worth the money.

Be awaiting that video reply here brother

 

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[GregH]

What was it like? why did you fail?

well MJ was right as were others when he said that the whole application process was just a marketing ploy; I don't think anyone was "turned" away

the information was laid out in a very sloppy manner honestly-- the info that was put was not bad at all-- just not laid out in any coherent way

everyone who did it with me was very cool and very excited to learn

people were very nice and bought in big time to what dane taught-- maybe too much for my taste ( but thats just personal), because towards the end it felt very cult-like .... you couldnt disagree with anything being taught and if you were failing it was due to "limiting beliefs"-- :/

I believe I failed because I went in knowing nothing about marketing/ business/ SaaS/ copywriting/ anything... I spent much of the first few months catching up-- half the time I didnt know what I was talking about or learning... It was overwhelming because to start a software business when you know nothing about software is kinda crazy in retrospect

its not impossible-- just highly unlikely

I took a ton of action... I made about 50-60 calls.. sent 2000 emails using the scripts they gave me-- did in person visits -- and tried to"extract" many problems in a business that were simple and easy to solve and no other solution existed

You had to totally understand a market like the back of your hand, and it was hard...

in the end.. I didnt get many ideas to work with and I kept spinning my wheels
I was lost,confused and frustrated and it topped off with one of the members starting his own info products and signing up other students and having them market for him in a MLM format in a very aggressive manner.. wasnt cool

do I think the foundation gave good info? yes I do... it was just laid out in a confusing manner

I dont think the foundation is for newbies or people without a background in software or business

also the cash needed to pay for software development was very high and the whole " get people to pay for you" thing was a little pie in the sky and Im not sure many people did that

in the end I think 10% of students had some success and I think only 1% did very very well... but to my knowledge they were already into software and business and this "system" just kind of helped them along

so my advice for anyone out there thinking about doing it is this...
if you know software or have a strong background in business then this might be for you, if not... stick to these forums

the basics are
- choose a market
- send emails/cold call and talk to the best people in that industry
- ask them about their day and see if there is any problems that could be solved with software
-presell them on the idea
- validate with asking for money
-build MVP
-get more beta users
-launch


I dont think Im giving away any secrets as Dane and Sam both said the same thing in many many many interviews

Id be happy to answer any more questions

 

[GregH]

Now that you are familiar with their basic process, do you think you might have more success on a 2nd or 3rd try? Or perhaps you can merge their process in to one of your own making?

okay so If I had to do it all over again--

here is what id do

1)I would choose a good market
2) Id start a blog geared towards helping people in that market solve their problems
3) Id ask business owners to interview them and post the interview on my blog so that they will get traffic/visibility/ect. aka something in it for them-- make them want to talk to me, rather than me pulling teeth like before
4) Id post a lot of interviews and blog posts and videos ect.. just solid and good content about problems in the market and how people are solving them
5) Id then start an email list and build it up
6) id try my best to find answers to problems they have and post good content
7) id wait a while and finally start to post surveys or just email my list any problems related to _______ ( anything that could be solved I think with software)
8) id do a quick mockup of what the software would do and ask my audience ( who now trusts me) if they would be interested in this product
9) It would be easy to sell/presell to my audience and validate the idea that way


I say this process because a big problem when interviewing people the foundation way was nobody knew who the hell you were and didnt trust you ( I even had insurance adjusters thinking i was a spy for the government)

and its also way easier to sell/presell validate to your own audience

thanks for the question and I hope this helped clear it up


Im off software for now-- but I might go back someday

 

[MJ DeMarco]

My comments are not an endorsement for the Foundation or a black-eye against it. This thread isn't full of FAIL, but I find Greg's comments are, and a sneak peak into the inner workings of his operating system.

After reading GregH's posts I believe wholeheartedly that his failure(s) have nothing do with the Foundation (nor the last 20 entrepreneur books he's read) but what's grinding inside his head. As much as many don't want to believe, mindset is everything. Failures on the inside will lead to failures on the outside.

That said, this forum is about creating change that creates success. I hope Greg overcomes the challenges as well as anyone else experiencing the same.

 

[AdrianN]

DennisDuty, Vigilante I agree. The only one to blame, in my case..well..is ME. When I joined I didn't expect somebody else to magically hand over a 5-6 figures per year for me. I've been there once I know how hard it is to get even the smallest gain.

I joined because I constantly invest in myself, I want to learn more. The issue I see here is the "perceived value" and what it really is.

If I remember right, MJ said this: You walk in a fitness class (with the right mindset to drop weight to become healthy, to learn about it, etc) and all of a sudden a FAT guy comes and stands in front of you. That's your MENTOR. A FAT guy who know everything about the diet and getting that 6-pack abs.


Here's a thing I NEVER SEEN, EVER in any webinar, marketing /seminar, you name it:

Man, if you did this ONCE, the SAME WAY you teach us, then fine - START WITH US. We start from 0, you start from 0 with us. You fail, we fail. We ALL learn. Great thing that we have something to relay on (that you already did) but you start with us. People teach you to do this, do that, go talk to X, Y, Z bla..bla...bla...but it's actually one thing to GO TALK and other thing to simply lay out a beautiful plan. In my opinion if you don't take the same steps that we take, you're basically telling a nice story on how you succeeded. But what about that 100 A/B tests you took on the Landing Page or those 40 people you interviewed?


If the intention is to help people THEN why on earth do I see these *marketing signs* in most sales funnels (big launches):

- "We are not sure yet if we are going to accept you in the program. We'll have to think about it and send a reply in a few days"
- You JUST pay 3 payments of 997, or 97, or 1997 $ and you can have access to the program (Ohh really? Why "97" or "197" why these digits "9", "7" and not simply $1000 or $100. BECAUSE IT SELLS. That's why. X GURU discovered this. Let's follow him)
- ACT NOW. BUY NOW. ONLY 3 PLACES LEFT. CLOSING TONIGHT.
- P.S. and P.P.S at the end of the letter with the CEO signature or face
- This BONUS that it's worth $999999999 but because we are BUDDIES I'll give it for $9
- 30, 90, 365 MONEY BACK GUARANTEE
- Pay 5 figures to meet the GURU, the CEO, the MASTER in a SUPER SECRET LOCATION where..hmm...maybe you'll drink some coca cola and play football and see how great it is to be a CEO.

I've NEVER seen any of these so called "marketing tricks" at MJ. Why didn't he promote his book like this? There's no need to. It's such tremendous value inside the book.

To end this, I have nothing against Dane, it's just I can not trust what he says. I've seen too many of these "marketing tricks" that I'm sick of. It's almost to the point where it's chaotic. Don't believe me? Try your spam folder. Reverse the path of any offer you have there.

 

[LightHouse]

-- I just want to move on to E-commerce and try to sell physical products and if I find success in that MAYBE down the line id look into software... maybe

I'm halfway through this thread but dude....

This just revealed why you have the attitude about your experience that you do.

Whether you believe it or not, you are chasing money. You don't "find" success, you create it.

You still aren't trying to solve problems, you are trying to just be successful. Software may not have been for you, but that was your choice. I do think that mindset is a big part of being an entrepreneur. So there is a valid reason why half of the course is about mindset.

It is interesting to hear perspectives from the students though, don't think I am just trying to put you down here. I think you have some mind tuning to do though before you really become successful. And I truly hope you do.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

 

[Young-Gun]

This was a fascinating read.

Agree that the OP came off pretty well: worked hard by his own standards, invested time and money of his own. Dane impressed me with his refund offer, although naturally he gets "good press" for doing so, and honestly I think the refund is owed if the purchaser wants it. (promises were grander than could be delivered in that time)

Where the OP could have done better in my humble opinion:
I was cringing so much as he described the 6 months he spent (sorry "wasted" according to him) before he realized that he was "nowhere near" his goal - that he didn't know enough.

Good. I agree, it takes about 6 months to realize I'm a total idiot that has only just realized the magnitude of his ignorance.
But then you gave up??? MAAAAAAN wtf?

Put another way, you spent six months learning that you were a complete idiot.. that you knew nothing.. and then were just like.. "OK."

"On to the next thing where I'll probably be an idiot in that too." (Nothing personal I just mean we're all idiots when we start something brand-new to us)

Those 6 months have to be invested to get to ground zero. But now you see WHAT needs to be learned... even if it's a MASSIVE undertaking.. that's the whole thing about business, and success, it always SEEMS insurmountable, you have to know that it only SEEMS that way.

Imagine this:
6 months - learning the absolute basics, the terminology, "learning what you need to learn", coming up with ideas
6 more months - refining ideas, starting to learn the specific things you'll need, even though you're a novice
6 more months - your business idea seems valid after many refinements. You're now at an intermediate level of knowledge in the field
6 more months - Serious progress has been made. You've outsourced a few major tasks; because of the last 18 months, you're somewhat qualified to evaluate employees, and even one or two hiring mistakes doesn't set you back, because now you see them as learning experiences.
6 more months - with the help of the best employees, you learn faster and faster. Product moves to operational stages and starts testing
6 more months - product iterates to a professional level of quality.You're no programmer now, but you're quite an experienced manager of programmers. You're confident that you could manage another team and do it even better next time
6 more months - product cashflow is respectable. It's not what you originally set out to hit (it's about half that) BUT!! Now you have a founder's education in this field

So far, elapsed time is 3.5 years, and you have a moderately-profitable software product
But more importantly, you've just finished your basic"free education" as a software enterprise founder and CEO

Now everything is accelerated. Let's try again on our SECOND software product.
6 months - researching a far larger, more important, more difficult need for your next software product and laying out a plan
6 months - getting the rough design made, finding first customers
6 months - improving everything with feedback and get to a nice, stable profitable software product
6 months - grow grow grow, and also package with previous software product if possible

Now, 5.5 years have gone by and you have 2 profitable software products along with the know-how to quickly brainstorm, plan, design, create, market, and grow your software sales.

Let's give it a few more steps:
6 months - document everything that keeps the business running
6 months - start shopping buyers and getting legal and financial advice
6 months - conclude the sale with the best offer

Total elapsed time: 7 years - build a software company, brought it to profitability and exited by selling it to a giant tech company

But just to put in perspective, you referenced "6 months" as some huge time investment. Not to be harsh, but buddy, friend, 6 months is just long enough for the trek to the base-camp of the mountain where you set up tent and gaze in awe at the magnitude of the climb awaiting you - but don't gaze too long.

MJ says it's all about process - the process of climbing a little of the mountain each day, for as long as it takes, no matter which of your friends fall of the face to their death, no matter what of your tools break.

I believe you've probably gotten that, by reading the responses to this thread. You don't fail or succeed because of your training, or your mentors.

You fail or succeed because you have either accepted failure as an option, or you have not. I have not. I'm not counting days, months, miles to the summit. I'm just deciding what I need to do today and then doing it.

I'll pull you up if you pull me up. Keep at it man, I wish I'd started in software back when I first moved to self-employment. Honestly, software is where the REAL money is.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Lots of money chasing [HASHTAG]#FAIL[/HASHTAG] in this thread. Pay close attention Fastlaners. I want money. I need money. Money, money, money. Me. Me. Me. I. I. I. I don't this... I don't that. More money is here. Less money is there. Because this. Because that.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Hypothetical question...

If someone reads my book but can't sell, can't write, and can't communicate and yet this reader "takes action" for a few weeks, and doesn't get results, does that make my book a scam? Does that make me any less of an instructor?

Your refund will totally be granted dude.

Impressive. Responsive. No fight. No resistance. This is how you run a business and stand behind it. (BTW, I doubt Kiyosaki would be handing out refunds after his $10K seminars.)

 

[DennisD]

Your point is valid. Your reasoning is valid. SaaS doesn't fit you,it doesn't make you happy, you don't want to be involved with it. All that is understood.

The only thing I'm talking about is this:

the goal is to make money isnt it?

The GOAL isn't to make money.
The RESULT is making money.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I totally failed hard..

No more details needed.

I disagree.

I'd love to hear the story.

 

[theag]

So you guys are saying that the foundation is a hyped up guru business where nobody wins except the founders? Big surprise.

 

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[DennisD]

what exactly do you mean by chasing money? -- I do want to make money yes, and I realize SaaS has the potential to make a TON of money, I just didn't think it was a right fit for who I am...

E-Commerce I think might be a better option, but then again it might not... how can I know until I try it?... I don't understand whats wrong with trying different things until you see what fits?
-------------------
You still aren't trying to solve problems, you are trying to just be successful.-- no offense but how would you know?-- I spent 6 months talking about peoples problems with them via email and phone and I may or may not be trying to solve problems with what Im doing right now...

You know that value given = wealth received.

You tried SaaS and it didn't "work."
You say eCommerce might be a "better option."

Examine these statements. SaaS didn't "work". Didn't work do to what?
To make you money? To make you successful? To take you where you want to be?

eCommerce might be a "better option."
A better option to what? To make you money? To find success?

It sounds like you're trying to find the path of least resistance to success. It sounds like you're chasing money. It sounds like instead of being determined to solve a problem, you're determined to find a method that "works". That's the mindset problem.

Upon starting up an eCommerce store, the foundation principles still apply. You should still hop on the phone with 50-200 business people in your target niche and extract ideas so you know what to sell to them. Start with a target market, find their problem, and then solve it. It might be with SaaS, it might be with a service, it might be eCommerce, it might be something new.

Earlier in the thread, I told you that the situation reminded me of people who are addicted to buying infoproducts with systems. and they try it out, and it fails, and so they move onto something else.

They suffer from the same mindset issue: It's not a method or system or tactics that make you a success... it's the ability to find where you can deliver the most value to the people who need it the most.. and then doing it.

ecommerce is just another platform to fail on. unless you can deliver value to people who need that value, you're doing it wrong.

 

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[LightHouse]

I really appreciate your thoughts on this..

I do have some questions regarding what you just said however...

Whether you believe it or not, you are chasing money. You don't "find" success, you create it.

what exactly do you mean by chasing money? -- I do want to make money yes, and I realize SaaS has the potential to make a TON of money, I just didn't think it was a right fit for who I am...

E-Commerce I think might be a better option, but then again it might not... how can I know until I try it?... I don't understand whats wrong with trying different things until you see what fits?

You still aren't trying to solve problems, you are trying to just be successful.-- no offense but how would you know?-- I spent 6 months talking about peoples problems with them via email and phone and I may or may not be trying to solve problems with what Im doing right now...

I do think that mindset is a big part of being an entrepreneur. So there is a valid reason why half of the course is about mindset.

I totally agree mindset is important- VERY important... stuff like thinking competition is TERRIBLE ( which it isnt) and having a scarcity mindset are often thoughts that will hold you back.. I don't have a problem with talking mindset-- I Loved MJs book and it was all about mindset

I however just didn't connect with what was taught in the foundation-- many people in there did connect and it helped them a great deal
I just couldn't gel with the teachings... I gelled very well with MJ's book however

I think you have some mind tuning to do though before you really become successful. And I truly hope you do.

oh no doubt, Im not on here trying to say I have it all figured out.. Im soooo far from it. I know I have a long long way to go, and Im always trying to read learn and grow... but just because I didn't connect with one set of teachings doesn't mean Im not open to new ideas

what resources would you suggest for mindset?

Dennis covered most of my follow up thoughts on this.

E-commerce, SaaS, Lead gen, etc etc etc are NOT business'. They are simply methods of solving problems.

You keep talking about e-commerce, you like physical products, etc. Your customers do not care about you, they care about what you can do for them. I don't see how you even want to get into e-commerce when you dont even have a problem to solve yet. It sounds like you just want to make a business and have it make you money. Sure you might see mild success, but have find grinding out every dollar.

I don't know anything about the foundation outside what i read in your thread and Dane's but I can see why you failed. And it isn't because of the program. You keep telling me you talked to 60 people, good for you. What about the other 299,999,940 people just in the US.

The goal of starting a business is to provide value or solve needs, not to make you rich. Money is a success metric of providing value by any means.

If you found in your phone calls that dentists have a hard time or spend too much time reordering consumable equipment for their practice, this is where you would determine that you need to have an ecommerce business to sell product subscriptions for consumables that the practice can order, set and forget.

The process does not go: I want to get into e-commerce, start a store, find some products that people maybe will buy, try to sell it because you have the means to.

The process and the things you have learned from the program here make sound sense, but in the end you need to be able to process them correctly. It make take you some time to really figure out what that means for you, but right now ou are starting at the a$$ end of the whole thing.


Maybe a great idea is to write down everything you know and learned through that program. write it down how you remember, then re-read it, you can tell your bias on it from failing out. Put it away for a while and then come back to it, you may start to read it differently and really extract your moneys worth from it.

 

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[SQT]

I was a also a student of The Foundation last year, an I pretty much agree with most of what Greg said here. My results were: I had an idea extracted from the Dialysis industry, but I wasn't able to really gain traction from the software idea from more than 2 or 3 people.

What I got out of it:
-Changed my marketing mindset. Dane Maxwell and Andy Drish really know their stuff when it comes to marketing and copywriting. I learned a lot about trying to do the least amount possible that you can get away with in order to get the results you want. The content they put out was not really organized, but the quality was high if you're just starting out. (however, I did see what they're building for this year, and it looks a lot better with more organization)

-It really opened me up to what is possible in entrepreneurship. I believe their main goal isn't really to get you to start a software company, but it's just to open up your mindset and get through your limiting beliefs to get you going. You'll start to be more open minded and you'll start thinking more like an entrepreneur. Where and how you can find the pain, extract ideas, and think up solutions to those pains. I know most of you on here are already there, but when I joined my mindset wasn't open to that way of thinking yet. Dane doesn't just want to teach you tactics, he wants to teach you the mindset, frameworks and strategy so you can come up with your own tactics along with what he provides. What I learned in the six months would have taken me longer to figure out on my own if I wasn't in The Foundation. So I'll have to see if the ROI is worth it.

The community- There was a lot of awesome like minded people in the group that joined and I still chat with a few of them now. It was really cool seeing them go through the same things I were. Also they tried creating smaller teams of members within The Foundation so it's easier to communicate and keep each other accountable, but it didn't really stick after the first few months even though we tried to meet every week but it kinda fell apart. I believe my group was around 15 people. 2 of the guys in my team became success stories of The Foundation, so that was really cool to see their progress every week when we were doing google hangouts in the beginning. Chatting with them definitely helped me through the tougher times when cold e-mailing and calling.


After my failure, I'm now looking at different models that could lead to a SaaS kind of like what Greg mentioned above.
I can start a blog to start a conversation with a market or use the blog as a platform to interview people. I was able to get people to agree to talk to me for creating a post about them on my blog. Just offering it got them to open my cold e-mail and set up calls, but none of them actually cared if I made the post or not.

Another model I'm considering is a product I heard Dane talk about which was his Broker Roundtable. You create a series of interviews with top brokers providing actionable insights that can helps brokers make more money. You sell the first interview for really cheap, then charge a higher monthly fee for 1 interview a month. I believe this model can lead to a SaaS because you're already getting to know the market so you can find out what kind of SaaS would help them. You can apply this model to a bunch of different professions/industries.

That's all I can think of right now, but if anyone has questions I'm open to answering them.

 

[AmyQ]

sure no problem
-maybe just didn't want it enough? I dunno
- ultimately I cant pinpoint why I failed--

Greg, I am not advocating for (or against) The Foundation. I know nothing about this organization. However, I would like to address how you are characterizing your experiences......

Once, on an 8 hour road trip, my husband and I listened to a business podcast (can't remember what the podcast was). The speaker was the founder of a very successful company. She characterized her "failures" as "learning experiences" and her "sunk costs" as "founder's tuition."

If I told you how much my household had spent on "founder's tuition," I would probably throw up. Seriously. Continuing to employ people who were not working out, having a build it and they will come philosophy, trusting without verifying....Our list of mistakes is long and costly. You seem able to identify, specifically, a number of things that kept you from your goal. Ultimately, being able to do that will take you there. Even if your end goal is not in software, you seem to have learned some things from your experience with The Foundation, which is why I challenge you to re-phrase your experience....It was a learning experience, not a failure!

 

[GregH]

hello all

I just wanted to thank all who were kind enough to share advice with me on this thread...

Ive been thinking it over and what really struck me as good advice was that during my time in the foundation looking for the pain/problem to solve... I had it backwards

I had it in my mind that I had to find problems that I thought could be solved with SaaS...( and I struggled with this as I had no idea one way or the other if the pain I was hearing was solvable or not... theres a good chance I ignored a lot of good problems that needed fixing"

As pointed out this was backwards and SaaS is only a method for solving pain....

Its true-- I should have went into a market and just asked questions and see where they took me and not been so wrapped up in SaaS that it blinded me to other problems

I do think that if people are dead set ( as I was) on SaaS then perhaps filtering out non SaaS problems is the best method ( but I would think to do this you would need to have some understanding of software.. i don't know)

to those who said that I wasn't hustling hard enough or didn't put in enough work...

listen I know where you're coming from.. im just some guy who could have done a lot more! I could have attended conferences, I could have started a blog, I could have sent out mailers, started an online survery, ANYTHING... and sure 60 calls to you guys doesnt sound like much but to me.. it was a A LOT...

When you are in a framework or a system that you paid $4,000 its very very hard to think outside the box.... you want to only do what the course suggests and do it the best way you can and you almost put creative thinking on the back burner and put your nose to the grindstone and grunt work away...work without thinking large picture...

I listened to the audio, I took the personality test, I read the pdfs, I read the required reading, I hand copied old copy ads, I used the suggested email software and the email scripts, I tried to use the call scripts, I made the cold calls, I sent the emails, I hired the VA, I visited places in person... and its hard to hear from you guys that I wasn't working hard when I thought I did everything right and found little to no success....

the one thing where its hard backing down from is the limiting beliefs reversals that dane and the foundation enjoy so much-- again.. dane helped A LOT of people with those limiting beliefs... I just couldnt get on board with it... it didnt feel right and made me tune out... did this sabotage me? maybe..... but in my heart I dont think so

I just wanted to get this off my chest because earlier today and last night I was kinda pissed at people on here for telling me I wasn't working hard or I had a shitty mindset.... I resented it because I know about adding value and thats how you make money... I just felt like you guys didn't really understand where I was coming from... but with that said-- you all have nothing to gain or lose by telling what you think... if I gave up today and became a high school math teacher, none of your lives would be affected... I understand you're just trying to give the best advice possible because you've been there and you want to see others succeed so I thank you all for your advice and kind words... again thank you!

as for me....Im not going anywhere.. Ill still be reading a bunch on here and keeping my mind open and hopefully adding the discussion

-Greg

 

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[DennisD]

Dane was teaching SaaS because that's what he knows and is good at.
It'd be impossible to outline a step by step guide to both SaaS, ecom, manufacturing, employee temping, legal aid, etc. He's found success with SaaS and teaches other people to keep searching until they find a solution you can solve with SaaS.

I do think it's backwards to work like this. EVERY TIME I've had a solution in mind to begin with it failed. I was trying to solve problems that didn't exist. I've ALWAYS had to pivot and do something else to become profitable.

1. choose a market
2. talk to people in that market ( email, call, inperson visit, surveys, interviews, conferences)
3. find what a common and painful problem is
4. THEN find the MEANS to solve THAT PROBLEM^ in the best way... whether its SaaS, E-Com or something else
5. Work hard and make it the best possible solution to solve the problem in the best way
6 once you have solved the problem well enough and enough dentists use it... I will have created HUGE value and be rewarded with money

right?

I think that's exactly what you should do.

You won't know how to provide the solution.. but once you learn the pain... you start figuring out how to solve it.
It might mean learning coding, it might mean getting mentorship from an importer/exporter, it might mean learning how to bake pretzels or manufacture toothbrushes. The solution won't come easy for you.. but through your dedication to the process of solving it you will become an expert on it.

 

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[TopChef]

Hypothetical question...

If someone reads my book but can't sell, can't write, and can't communicate and yet this reader "takes action" for a few weeks, and doesn't get results, does that make my book a scam? Does that make me any less of an instructor?




Impressive. Responsive. No fight. No resistance. This is how you run a business and stand behind it. (BTW, I doubt Kiyosaki would be handing out refunds after his $10K seminars.)

MJ. Im not sure its that simple.

What I learned from reading gregh's posts (and I don't want to put words in his mouth here) is that the Foundations pitch is that anyone can start their own SaaS business. No experience? No money? No ideas? The Foundation will help you overcome this.

From watching the intro video on Do you know the most important word in business? | The Foundation this appears to be their pitch.

Dane's most important word is predictability and he touts a predictable process as key to overcoming all sorts of barriers.

Lets look at some quotes from the video on what the Foundation will help you overcome.
1) Why knowing how to write code actually hurts your business.
2) Why your better off starting a business without an idea.
3) How you can start a business without raising money, but still have revenue to pay a developer without sacrificing equity.

So the main USP of the program seems to be that you will be privy to seeing a lot of the process that goes into creating a SaaS business.



After attending the course it seemed that gregh concluded that the bulk of the Foundation was more fixing your mindset and motivating you. That is a big difference!

Now I've never taken the course myself and I cannot attest to how accurate that statement is, but this is what I got from gregh's post here that raised flags with me.

An overall cultish atmosphere that discouraged disagreement or raising questions.

Dane recruited tutors or teachers to give 1 on 1 sessions for help, and these teachers often didn't build SaaS of their own.

Although Dane offered 1 on 1 mentoring, much of that was on limiting beliefs and such.

One of the major success stories is Sam Ovens who is featured prominently in the intro video and is the first Facebook comment you see on the Foundations website. It appears as though he is operating an MLM type consulting business that may be related to the Foundation.

Incorporating "salesy" marketing tactics like saying that you have to apply to get in.

There was not enough useful info on the actual process of starting an SaaS business. The most useful part was in the process of interviewing businesses and extracting info from them.

There are 3 or 4 members here who have taken the course and they seem to agree with gregh's assessment.



Truthfully, I still don't know what to make of the Foundation. Having been taken by Guru's in the past I am particularly cautious when I see redflags. It seems like to me that the people who would benefit the most from the course are tech guys who are in slow lane jobs who need extra help with motivation and establishing the proper mindset. But this course is specifically targeted to people who have no experience at all.


There seems to be some controversy with gregh asking for a refund. I think after reading TMF , and also Biophases and Vigilantes thread here, that are worth 4k easy I have a better understanding of what to expect from a course. If you attend a course or buy an info product and expect a refund because said product didn't make you money, than I think that is horrible. But if you buy a product that heavily promotes teaching a process and the course fails at it, then I think there is nothing wrong with asking for a refund.


Gregh speed+ to you. I think it takes a lot to put your failures up on the big screen for others to see here. I know that I have benefited from reading it and others have to, including Dane Maxwell himself.

Dane Maxwell speed+ to you. I really appreciate you doing the AMA here and I have learned a lot from reading it. Please do not think I am against the Foundation. I honestly don't know what to think of it. I think it takes a lot of balls to put your business on an open forum here and hear peoples honest opinions on it. I appreciate you hanging in there and responding like a human being would.

After reading your posts here I definitely don't think you are trying to swindle anybody. I think you are genuinely interested in helping people and I think you have a lot to share. I don't know where the Foundation is now, but I think that maybe some of the discontent from former students may have been because the marketing content and the actual course work was not harmonized yet.

 

[GregH]

No more details needed.

I disagree-- I wish that there was a review like this before I started the foundation... It would have helped me know what I was getting myself into...

Im not here to trash the foundation just give an honest feedback of my experience, and I hope it helps people

 

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[stefan]

I appreciate you ex-students of the Foundation for doing this AMA. I applied for The Foundation but just cancelled it (spam folder'd those e-mails). I'd much rather take my chances on my own ventures with $4000 and learn from my own mistakes. No offense or anything, I'm sure The Foundation provides some insight. But from everything that you all have mentioned...someone could just use that $4k to hire a trustworthy developer if they go the SaaS route.

 

[JEdwards]

Dane,

In the other thread you made me cringe when you started in with the I dont need money, I have enough to live the rest of my life, blah blah, I am only here to help people bit you got going, but you coming on this thread and offering a refund is great and will probably go a long way in selling more deals for you.

What you are going down with Gregh is a slippery slope though. If you dont learn you will get your money back. If you come to a forum and post you will get your money back.

Sadly, My bet you could layout an exact plan (and I mean exact, buy this for this... sell it for that... and here is the person who will buy it) for people to make a million bucks in the next 12 months and still 90% will fail. <thus the slippery slope..

But did they learn something? I believe GregH did. and having said that,

GregH,

Do you feel you learned zero, what is the worth of your experience? I think you learned a lot. So asking for a full refund is unfair to Dane and what he tried to do in helping you.

 

[LightHouse]

So the end goal is to create value ? And disregard money ?

I'm confused

Lets say I find out people really want pretzels after the local MLB game..

I set up a stand and provide the best pretzels money can buy .. I'm solving a problem
and solving a need in a great way

I start making money but looking at my day I start seeing that I'm working 10-12 hours a day baking and preparing and selling and cleaning and traveling but not making THAT much for my efforts.. I also just hate baking and hate the smell Of pretzels...

I decide, this isn't for me but I still want to be an entrepreneur so I go looking for other business models... Perhaps online pretzel sales? Perhaps selling t-shirts after the game? Maybe selling a
Golf cart ride back to your car?

What is really the difference?
Isn't it doing the same thing( finding a need and solving it) just in a different way and a way that you like and understand better ?

If I'm wrong please tell me

No you never finished the process. You start selling pretzels, its going really well. You find someone to bake the best pretzels for you at a great cost based on volume. Now that you have 10x the amount of products you hire other people to sell for you so you can reach a larger market either at the same event or at other events around town.

People really love your pretzels, adjust the pricing to reflect that. people will pay for quality products that they like, look at any major food brand.

Then we start looking at increasing the average order value. That way you are maximizing each interaction with each customer. Make funny pretzel related t-shirts and sell them at the stand. Sell beer at the stand, sell other merchandise, ups-ells for pretzels (i dont eat them so i dont know what goes with them).

Now people are getting awesome pretzels that the want, in a convenient place (the game), for a price that matches their perception of value, and you have increase the overall customer satisfaction. There you have created a successful business that now generates 10x what it did when you started and you are working less and paying employees.


BTW selling pretzels isnt really solving a need per-say, that is a very limited market with limited need. But I just went a long with your example.

 

[theag]

How did that make you feel?

As good as this time.

 

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[DennisD]

I'll be honest with you guys.

While I'm never big into things LIKE the foundation (just not my style)
I tend to think the reason you didn't "make it" wasn't because the system was broken or the material unorganized...
It's because you just didn't hustle hard enough.

If Dane had made all your decisions for you, and you had been successful, it'd really be HIS product don't you think?

 

[DeletedUser19]

@GregH ; @SQT

From what you have written, you both have learned a lot. Maybe you failed indeed, but you were just millimeter off. Look how much action you took. Remember, you were both noobs in copywriting, marketing and hustle in general. You can just change your approach and try again on your own now.

It's easy to say the foundation didn't deliver as promised, but hey, are you the same after that experience? I bet it will be a lot easier if you start now again, even if it is completely different business model.

Another model I'm considering is a product I heard Dane talk about which was his Broker Roundtable. You create a series of interviews with top brokers providing actionable insights that can helps brokers make more money. You sell the first interview for really cheap, then charge a higher monthly fee for 1 interview a month. I believe this model can lead to a SaaS because you're already getting to know the market so you can find out what kind of SaaS would help them. You can apply this model to a bunch of different professions/industries.

You don't need another products. Those 6 months with the foundation were enough. Change your approach and fix the mistakes you did the first time, or find another market or need and try again.

okay so If I had to do it all over again--

here is what id do

1)I would choose a good market
2) Id start a blog geared towards helping people in that market solve their problems
3) Id ask business owners to interview them and post the interview on my blog so that they will get traffic/visibility/ect. aka something in it for them-- make them want to talk to me, rather than me pulling teeth like before
4) Id post a lot of interviews and blog posts and videos ect.. just solid and good content about problems in the market and how people are solving them
5) Id then start an email list and build it up
6) id try my best to find answers to problems they have and post good content
7) id wait a while and finally start to post surveys or just email my list any problems related to _______ ( anything that could be solved I think with software)
8) id do a quick mockup of what the software would do and ask my audience ( who now trusts me) if they would be interested in this product
9) It would be easy to sell/presell to my audience and validate the idea that way

What are you waiting for?


Use that experience with the foundation. I can't focus on the fastlane at the moment, I need to hustle, but you can. Don't wait.

 

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[Talisman]

Wow, $4k to be told "go find a problem in an industry, and then provide value by fixing it". You're selling your book too low MJ.

Anyway, Greg and others who did this - just keep finding problems in industries/areas. Just because you dont know software doesn't mean you cannot find another solution - there are many problems needing fixing, whether through software, hardware, or good old fashioned innovation.

Keep at it. Im going to go read this AMA now.....