Flips, Real Estate, & Landscaping... You gotta Johnny Hustle baby!!

[wyattnorton]

I am going to post a quick little update on what I've been hustling around doing.

Real Estate: Bought 2 flip houses, both for a total of $30k. Been busting a$$ trying to get some people out there to start working on the place. Where these two houses are the people are either jacked busy for 2-3 months out or just never show up. So finally got a quality guy doing work on one house and hurrying to get it done before economy completely tanks.

Landscaping: Partnered with a company in my area that has been doing it for 30+ years. I handle client acquisitions and project management while I learn from the owner on how he runs his business. I added 5 projects this season for him totaling approximately $75,000 in jobs.

Flip Cars: I flipped two trucks making $5,000 profit on one and $2,500 profit on the other. Took some time to get ball joints, rockers, and corners on but F*ck it was worth it. These babies came out clean and now I have four more cars coming. A Tahoe, chevy silverado, ford escape, and a gmc sierra.

And I am still finishing up my last two online classes to graduate from college (I'm 21 btw)

Graduated a year early because I realize it was not what I wanted to do so I busted a$$ and took 2-3 20 credit hour semesters and a lot of summer classes.


Will keep you updated as much as I can

 

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[wyattnorton]

What condition are these in - total gut jobs? Just curious. Nice job so far!!

I will attach pictures at some point. One of them is a total gut job. The last people who bought it thought they were flippers and decided to tear the whole placed apart, so that will be a $30k-$40k nut to spend.

The other is much more intact, just got the garage roof reshingled and siding on house/garage redone. Moving along nicely and I am trying to finish it up before winter. Both of them...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Bought 2 flip houses, both for a total of $30k.

Where they hell you live? Mumbai India?

Congrats on collecting some big wins early in your life.

 

[wyattnorton]

Something odd about real estate and investing in general that I've found is that mathematically, the active strategy almost always comes out on top. Passive gains from appreciation and holding are never going to win versus taking your big sale as fast and early as possible and repeating.

It's just harder to keep replicating amazing deals (flips, or new developments). But mathematically, money now > money later. So the sooner you can sell and do it again, the better.

Thoughts on this?

I agree with you on that. When you purchase a property for $100k, fix it up for $20k, hoping to rent it every month for $2k "passively" which is bullshit because you have to deal with turnover, clean ups, maintenance scheduling, etc. and you MAYBE net $500-$1k a month.

Versus you buy this property for $100k fix it up for $20k and sell it for $200k, NOW you have $200k to play with versus the original $120k you spent.

I never understood the initial buy to rent strategy. With my flip houses, I plan on selling these F*ckers as fast as possible for as much as possible so I can fold them into even larger properties.

It is the BEST compound effect in the world IMO:

1. Buy a property for $100k fix it for $20k sell it for $200k
2. Buy 1 more property for $150k, fix it for $50k sell them for $400k total
3. Buy 2 properties for $100k fix them for $20k each, sell them for $250 total

You can factor debt for even more money but let's use cash for that example

Etc etc.

That was just a quick example. However, when you realize that cash now is much better than cash later because you can use that to purchase bigger and/or more properties, then you truly start to see wealth.

Once you hit a certain point... let's say you have $500k to play with now:

• Buy a flip property(s) for $300k
• Put $200k down on a $1million apartment building.

Now you can utilize debt and/or equity financing (proven track record and you made some buddies down the line in the industry to invest with you) you can begin to focus on rent.

Even with the $1million apartment building i'd rather cash out from value increase

Let's say the apartment building (10 units) is 80% occupied while the market is around 90%-95% occupancy and it is $100 under market on the rents.

Renting at $500/month.
Old ---> 8 * 500 = $4000/month PGI (Potential gross income)
New --> 9 * 550 = $4950/month

This is just from raising rents $50/month and filling vacancies

Then you look to SELL THAT THING because you showed the market it can be rented for more cashflow.

I love a good flip and will continue to do that way. However, I am going to get into the debt/equity department regardless of the recession/depression were headed to.

 

[wyattnorton]

It has been a while since I posted anything.

Following the clean up for the clients, we are almost done! 2-3 more days of hauling away steal, throwing garbage in the dumpster, and taking things to be listed on eBay.

I spent about $2k on 30 yard dumpsters, we needed 4 of them and each of $500 each...

Did 3 weekends of garage sales making about $1500-$2000 a month, sold off all the lawnmowers and trailers for $5k. I even found an old 1968 Suzuki 2 stroke in the back woods buried.

My flip houses are going well too. Just finishing up on the roof for one property, but have to meet with a new contractor for the other one. Been through 3-4 contractors for both house.

If you ever flip your own properties (not sure what it is like in your area) but where I am flipping these guys can be brutal. One day they're on point doing great work, then they go on a bender and fall apart. Most recent situation was a guy trying to rush me paying him without even telling me how he wanted to be paid. Went at it with him and he was trying to get one over on me for a while. Paid him $2k over Zelle and now he's apologizing for his psychoticness...

Anyways, I am turning 22 in September so my goal before then is to have my one flip house almost ready for sale. Almost means I am buttoning up the inside and preparing to list it before October.

Another goal is start netting $2,000 a month on eBay and average have my first $25,000 month with landscaping, eBay, and flip cars.

Stay tuned

 

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[wyattnorton]

Update 9/30/2022:

Wrapped up the outside of one of the my flip houses.
The contractor that finished the roof, soffits, facia, and gutters is looking to do the inside work of my other property.

My plan is to keep the other house over and accept that I can't keep spending the amount for both houses... both new roofs, new gutters, and having to replace the garage door because of contractors slamming it is always fun. The one house that is inside work ready needs drywall, paint, flooring, and most likely plumbing/electrical. I'll respond to this with pictures of inside as is.

Landscaping has been rolling. We pounded out 3 larger projects. One was the deck job I posted pictures of, another was a retaining wall/dirt leveling job (nice $4k and $3k profit), and the third was a deck clean and paint and build retaining walls around the edge (I'll post pics)

Overall revenue for September was $55k. Profit was $32k.

Season is wrapping up soon so I'll have time to be on here more often and build my ecommerce business.

I'm at 367 listings, I need to hit around 15-20 a day to reach 2,000 by December 31st. Just going to push and grind to see if I can get to 1,000 before end of year.

 

[wyattnorton]

Before and afters.

I did door trim, bathroom tile, cabinets, paint, and a few others

All else was done by contractors for less than $5k total

 

[wyattnorton]

Plus I sell items on eBay. That brings in around $1k-$2k a month

 

[wyattnorton]

Where they hell you live? Mumbai India?

Congrats on collecting some big wins early in your life.

HA! No thanks man!

The properties were foreclosures and they're in small, somewhat country towns in my state. (Populations are around 500-1000 max!)

I appreciate that, they seem so small to me, but I guess that's because I see there is always bigger and better avenues!

Thanks MJ for all the wisdom you gave me and others through your books

 

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[wyattnorton]

Learned today to be prepared for anything, but have zero expectations for customers/clients, both bad and good.

When we sign contracts, we have a 30 day from sign date to start the landscape project. Yes people love to text “When are you coming?” about a week in, i just tell them the truth.

Today I had a lady that we signed 2 weeks ago texted me that she has a problem with our timeline and to give her a call. My partner and I instantly went to the negative that she found someone else for cheaper and shittier quality, thus, wanting her deposit back.

However, when we called her it turns out that she actually said it was okay if we came later because they are doing construction on her road and she didn’t want to hold up any other projects if it takes us more time to access her property.

Of course there are the bad apples, plenty… but it’s moments like these that remind me to just go with the flow and not rush into judging the situation before experiencing it.

 

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[Aaron_S]

Luckily I found a decent one for the nicer house. But that took about 30-50 calls and quotes to find the guy… Angie’s list haha.

Second one has been a nightmare to find help. Have a guy coming on Monday morning to start on the siding.

I’ll definitely try the realtor route. I don’t have one I work with in my state nor in the area. The realtor I bought the beat down one from was very shady, took strategic pics and didn’t show what shape the roof was in at all. However, we can make it work.

Have you continued to invest in real estate??

Add Home Advisor to Angi for my most painful contractor engagement. (It was for about $30k of commercial electrical work. The guy came highly recommended and referenced, but I suspect now that he had never done a project of that scale on his own before. The work was ok it just took for ever and I ended up finishing the last circuit myself and had to clean up some of the burial points.)

We do invest some what but just here and there. More like a hobby. I think if we stayed in one area and built a network of service people we would do it more.

Right now the only thing we have that is a project is a house about like your second in a small city about 3 hours from my home. I have had only had one GC actually show up and 3 weeks later he hasn't sent a quote. I have a family friend that is a GC in that area but he is overbooked the next few months. I'm guessing that project will drag on through the winter when things slow down for everybody. I also might end up just doing some of the work and just contracting out the various trades pieces.

I'm just saying you aren't alone. It's just hard to get someone on a big indoor remodel project this time of year.

It sounds like you are really killing it at building some skills and a war chest to invest in your future ventures. I wish I had your drive and direction at that age.

 

[wyattnorton]

Update 8/26/2022:

Been busy as hell recently busting out landscape projects.

This week was my biggest week!! Added 3 new projects with $25k in deposits for $50k total when completed.

I get 40% of the profit so a conservative $10k-$15k when all is said and done.

My one flip house has the outside buttoned up and now we’re moving inside. Dropped $8k on the roof and gutters but it needed it for sure.

Sold 1 flip truck in the last 2 weeks, profited $1,500 and didn’t have to do much to it.

Been working working working so haven’t done much else.

Keep y’all updated, enjoy life!

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

Something odd about real estate and investing in general that I've found is that mathematically, the active strategy almost always comes out on top. Passive gains from appreciation and holding are never going to win versus taking your big sale as fast and early as possible and repeating.

It's just harder to keep replicating amazing deals (flips, or new developments). But mathematically, money now > money later. So the sooner you can sell and do it again, the better.

Thoughts on this?

 

[wyattnorton]

Update:

Landscaping season is 90% in full go... other than the snow storm we had today in the middle of April.

Let's talk projects.

Current project is large man. We rebuilt a 6' boulder wall that's around 30' long, poured a small cement pad, poured a cement walkway with a step for the client. Now we're building an engineer retaining block wall in the back, then pouring an 8' x 8' cement pad for a hot tub.

The client loved our work they decided to add on plantings and a boulder design... a nice little $5k additional down payment and another $5k when done with it.

Overall, this job is just over $40k.

Next job is a quick 2 hour $895 two maple tree install

After that we have a $5k deck repair job

Then two tree/plant install jobs right down the street for $20k combined.

And 3 others jobs lined up.

I had to pivot on how we acquire clients this year because two trade shows we did last year that gave us 8-10 projects did not do it again this year. Never got a reason why, apparently it wasn't profitable for them. Was for me.

So now I really dove into Facebook and Google Ads driving traffic to our website. I've had 7 appointments within the last 21 days from it and closed 3 of these, another will sign up soon.

We're at around $40k in deposits so far this season with $80k for completed projects. My goal is to get to $100k deposits by the end of May and then $200k in deposits by the end of July.

I really need to get creative with how I approach advertising... good ole door to door fliers may be necessary.

Other than landscaping, I sold the truck I picked up on my last post for $5k cash. Quick profit. Only changed a tire for $200, so $2,600 in it.

Looking to buy a few more trucks after I drop a $12k nut for taxes. Gotta love Uncle Sams pimpin'

 

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[Johnny boy]

You sound extremely intelligent, talented and ambitious.

Looking forward to seeing how things go.

 

[wyattnorton]

Update:

I made an offer to those clients for their father's house that they are selling.

They ended up agreeing to allow me to clean out their house and keep anything I find. I paid $5k to do so, and wrote up a legal agreement to protect myself and them (incase of injuries, theft, etc.)

This place is packed full of stuff and there is a trailer I can use for landscaping/flipping houses, but I can probably get $1.5k-$2.5k for it (they have the title for it as well).

All the other stuff should total up to around $10k, there is a garage full of tool, gas tools, a machine press (probably around $500-$1.5K, not sure yet).

Going there tomorrow to start cleaning it up!

 

[wyattnorton]

Been looking into a fertilizing company recently... curious if anyone has run their own, worked for one, or done something similar.

I know @Johnny boy has a similar setup with his lawncare business that it is a yearly contract for each client and he offers other services, not just cutting grass.

The nearest fertilizing company to me started with 3-4 trucks just 5 years ago and now has 40+ trucks going around my area.

Seems like a great opportunity to come in as a smaller company... thought i'd see if anyone has some experience with this business!

 

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[wyattnorton]

Update 8/26/2022:

Been busy as hell recently busting out landscape projects.

This week was my biggest week!! Added 3 new projects with $25k in deposits for $50k total when completed.

I get 40% of the profit so a conservative $10k-$15k when all is said and done.

My one flip house has the outside buttoned up and now we’re moving inside. Dropped $8k on the roof and gutters but it needed it for sure.

Sold 1 flip truck in the last 2 weeks, profited $1,500 and didn’t have to do much to it.

Been working working working so haven’t done much else.

Keep y’all updated, enjoy life!

Just a note that the $10k project it took me 3 visits to the guys house to figure out the project that he was willing to do.

He wanted to block his neighbor's view of his house. I laid out a plan with the quote, but he "only" has $10k to spend on landscaping this year. So we worked through it and brought the cost down to $15k with two payments of $2.5k at the end of this year and the end of January next year.

One of the other projects came from running paid ads in a local newspaper. Most of the people in my area are older and do not use computers/emails/etc. but I also have a website for the younger people as well.

The third project came from referral on past business. We did a retaining wall for someone else across the lake, they asked the people who did and we got the call this year.

My main takeaway from the first project is that diligent follow-up and follow-through are crucial for a service based business and other businesses as well.

After meeting with the guy the first time, he did not contact me for 2 weeks. I called and asked what was going on and he asked me to come back out to see. He did add some dirt for a berm and asked what I could do with that.

I gave him another quote at a cheaper price of $15k to put in (2) 10 foot pines, (2) 8 foot pines, and (4) 6 foot juniper trees, along with a short 10-15 foot fence depending on what needs to be done.

He then went silent for another month. I emailed him one night and he asked me when could I start the project. I gave him the honest answer of probably October, November at the latest as we have a lot of projects going.

Went out there, we arranged the payment plan and I got the $10k deposit on the spot.

HERE'S WHAT HE DOES NOT KNOW:

Immediately after I cashed the check, I called up the best nursery for the pines and junipers and got a deal for 2 extra junipers and 1 extra pine. So now he is going to get more and I won't tell him until I get there with the trees to blow his mind.

This is what I have learned from my business partner is always focus on the details. When we were doing a deck job, the bottom boards were ugly. My partner decided to have them covered with new pieces of wood because that's how he would want it. The total project was a profit of ~ $10k and this only costed $300 in materials plus around $200 in labor for 3 hours of work.

But the client was blown away and we now have 2 more jobs in the same neighborhood because of it.

Have the audacity to give a little more to your customers and clients, even if you make less money.

 

[wyattnorton]

Ups and Downs as they come:
Finished up one job on Monday for a nice $1700 final draw.

Tried finishing up a job today for another $1680, F*cking rain got us in the last 2 hours of day.

Also, eBay is playing the pimp game with my account by restricting it for a week saying I listed a "counterfeit" product when I was testing out drop shipping items from TJ Maxx and other stores... F*cking jokers

Anyways, on that pissed off part of the season wrapping it all up before winter comes. We have 4 more jobs to bang out and they should suffice.

Flip trucks are taking awhile to sell, sold one a week ago and crickets from then on out. Will update once I sell one.

Salute

 

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[wyattnorton]

One thing I found out through flipping these houses is it is expensive no matter what price you buy at...

So you MUST find ways to keep it cheap when you can.

I bought $2,000 worth of items on FB marketplace for less than $500. (Doors, blinds, trim pieces, etc.)

A roof cost me around $10k (which was a bargain compared to the other jackies down here) but the guy did a fantastic job.

I still have to pay a $4k-$10k nut for the HVAC, electricity, and plumbing because I want the person who buys this house to have a safe place to live.


I will post more as I learn and do more.

 

[wyattnorton]

Update:

Last Friday I listed the first house I am working on for $119,500.

This is around $20k-$30k less than the other 5 houses selling in the area within the same specs as mine.

I've spent around $40k so far on this house with labor, materials, and bills.

So far I've had one realtor set-up a showing this Wednesday, but once I get more pictures uploaded to the MLS I know it will show more.

A trick I learned when listing with a flat fee realtor is to contact other realtors selling in the area offering them a bonus on top of your buyer's commission if the house sells before a certain date.

I am offering a 2.4% commission for buyer's agents and if they sell it by April 15th they get a bonus of $500 for it.

Just a little incentive.


Landscaping started back up. My guys began a project for taking down and moving back a boulder retaining wall among a few other portions of the project.

This is just under a $30k job and I have an $8k deck job lined up to begin late next week.

 

[wyattnorton]

I should make a new thread called "Scumbag Contractors"

Had a plumber lined up this morning to come by and do simple things... easy $2k for him to make today.

Needless to say, the loser bailed because he "didn't want" to wear booties (shoe coverings)

F*cking dweeb set me back today and with a showing tomorrow I had to just rig everything in position without attaching things to their places.

Lined up two more plumbers for tomorrow. When in doubt, go to Ace and ask for references.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

What condition are these in - total gut jobs? Just curious. Nice job so far!!

 

[wyattnorton]

I mean it looks like they tore the place apart because everything was sagging/falling in from improper support and rot. It looks like they remedied all of that and put in some new windows. There is probably more than you paid for the place in materials and labor just there.

What is the median sale price for a house of that size in that 'town'?

The one property that is better condition is a 3bed/1bath. Those are selling for $110k-$125k, but I assume I'll get around $90k-$100k. Built in 1945 most are 70s houses, but mine is solid and has good infrastructure in terms of plumbing and electricity.

The torn down property will probably be a 3/1 or 3/2 if I can fit it. Those are selling for $75k-$135k, depending on year built. Mine was built in the 70's, so once I turn it around it will probably go for $70k-$90k

 

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[wyattnorton]

Just signed up another client for an $8k job. Simple gazebo and deck with plants beds, plants, and some outdoor lighting.

Probably profit, $2k ( I get half of the profits when I find the client)

 

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[wyattnorton]

Add Home Advisor to Angi for my most painful contractor engagement. (It was for about $30k of commercial electrical work. The guy came highly recommended and referenced, but I suspect now that he had never done a project of that scale on his own before. The work was ok it just took for ever and I ended up finishing the last circuit myself and had to clean up some of the burial points.)

We do invest some what but just here and there. More like a hobby. I think if we stayed in one area and built a network of service people we would do it more.

Right now the only thing we have that is a project is a house about like your second in a small city about 3 hours from my home. I have had only had one GC actually show up and 3 weeks later he hasn't sent a quote. I have a family friend that is a GC in that area but he is overbooked the next few months. I'm guessing that project will drag on through the winter when things slow down for everybody. I also might end up just doing some of the work and just contracting out the various trades pieces.

I'm just saying you aren't alone. It's just hard to get someone on a big indoor remodel project this time of year.

It sounds like you are really killing it at building some skills and a war chest to invest in your future ventures. I wish I had your drive and direction at that age.

I appreciate that! It took me 2-3 years to really step into doing all this, but it was worth it 100%

The thing too is the economy is too good and people are spending money like crazy. Where my properties are, the median incomes is around $40k-$70k, and people are now able to spend money because of gov. checks and other aid. However, once the economy tanks most of the contractors will not have work... so stay in there and hopefully next Spring the contractors get off their butts and can finish your investment.

 

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[wyattnorton]

Well, this is the year for deck repairs and staining!

Just had 2 more clients sign up for a total of $9,500 (about $7k-$7.5k in profit total)

One thing I am learning throughout this process in landscaping, is that it does not matter what your expectations are of the clients or people you work with in the beginning. Focus on their actions which are much more consistent than their emotions and feelings.

I had clients that my business partner cut their contract from $8900 to $5k in cash to fix their deck, put in a ramp, and stain the deck.

NOW THEIR CALLING US to say they "Don't like the brown they chose."

In this learning moment, I realized that clients and people truly do not understand what business owners actually go through to ensure a great product. We jumped through 2-3 hoops for a few hours to get this paint correct for clients that "should" be kissing our asses.

However, my business partner explained that while we are only making a $2k-$3k profit on this job, these people are very well connected in the neighborhood. If we do a great job (which we also do), then there could be 2-3 additional jobs this year, and possibly 5-6 next year.

I know this is not a guarantee, and I see everywhere that referrals and repeat business are much easier and better to work with than finding new customers.

It is interesting to contemplate and see what frameworks can be put into place for contractors and landscapers... may be an opportunity there!

 

[Xavier X]

@wyattnorton Good job, so far. Keep at it!

 

[wyattnorton]

The first one is a $25k total project and the second is a $15k project.

Just in case anyone is wondering the profits from these projects.

$25,000 + $15,000 for the jobs total (deposit and everything)

Materials:
$4,500 job 1 - New pressure treated wood, Zinzer Primer, Cabot deck correct (the lady bought the paint for the larger job so subtract $750, but i will keep it in because that is rare)
$3,500 for the second job. Plants, mulch, and cedar wood which is much more expensive than pressure treated but it was a much smaller deck
$475 for a 30 yard dumpster
Gas is around $3.65-$3.85 a gallon, I drive a Dodge ram which is okay with fuel
$650 for gas lets says to drive guys around
$450 for Ubers/Lyfts to get guys home or from job to job since they're pretty close
$500 in extra material expenses (screws, drill bits, extra wood pieces)

Labor:
I pay both my guys $20/hr
These two projects have and will take a total of 3 weeks so 15 work days.

9 hours a day for two guys = $180/day * 15 = $2,700 for the job total

= $40,000 - $10,075 - $2700 = $27,225

I add a buffer of around $1,500-$2,500 for extra expenses so just around a $25,000 profit for these two jobs.

One came from doing a trade show this spring and the other was a nurse at my mom's old grade school so I was referred to her by some of the teachers there.

We do around 20-25 jobs a year varying in size, so we average around $10k-$15k in profit per job.

I get around 20-25% per job that we complete because I did just hop on as a partner. I'll take the low pay now to learn, learn, learn, and build a reputation/following around my area which is still taking off with new people moving in.

 

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[wyattnorton]

Rough week at the end... had 2 contractors fall thru, one employee took Thursday and Friday off (which I knew about Friday, but not Thursday)

After this week I realize that the next employee we need to hire on is a materials runner. Basically, it is a guy who drives a truck around to the jobs, delivering wood, brick pavers, concrete, tools, etc.

Been running around WAY too much for it to make sense. So much so that I missed 2 appointments and rescheduled 4 for today on a Saturday.

It sounds like I am complaining, rather I am just putting down what is the next move and am quite excited that we are in the position with so much work to hire on a new employee. Training them will take some time... maybe a month or so and it will probably have to wait until next season as this one closes out. If we find someone who is going to stick around next season, then bringing them on now is not a ridiculous idea.

Bought another truck for $1250. 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD 4x4 cab and a half. This may be a flip because of the amount of work (gas lines, brake lines, rusted frame) but the engine runs well and is a solid truck for ~ 250k miles.

Hopefully, these projects pop and can add 1-2 more projects to push before economy drops!!